Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found
water has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over
it) and saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the
joist below. Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm
wondering what's best to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's not
currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the bath.
Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I need to do
it soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and it supports
the (L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able
to hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then
let a bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to deal
with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

On 23/02/2015 23:26, GMM wrote:
Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found
water has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over
it) and saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the
joist below. Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm
wondering what's best to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's not
currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the bath.
Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I need to do
it soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and it supports
the (L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able
to hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then
let a bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to deal
with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

I would fit a new joist, using joist hangers, alongside the old joist
and bolt the two together. That will avoid the need to disturb the
fixing of the ceiling, while still carrying its weight.

--
Colin Bignell

On 23/02/2015 23:47, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 23/02/2015 23:26, GMM wrote:
Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found
water has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over
it) and saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the
joist below. Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm
wondering what's best to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's not
currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the bath.
Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I need to do
it soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and it supports
the (L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able
to hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then
let a bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to deal
with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

I would fit a new joist, using joist hangers, alongside the old joist
and bolt the two together. That will avoid the need to disturb the
fixing of the ceiling, while still carrying its weight.

I had thought of something like that, if necessary, but I haven't seen a
hanger that would let me get a new joist close up against an existing
one. Maybe it would work with a spacer at each fixing though.

On 24/02/2015 09:10, GMM wrote:
On 23/02/2015 23:47, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 23/02/2015 23:26, GMM wrote:
Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found
water has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over
it) and saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the
joist below. Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm
wondering what's best to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's not
currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the bath.
Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I need to do
it soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and it supports
the (L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able
to hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then
let a bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to deal
with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

I would fit a new joist, using joist hangers, alongside the old joist
and bolt the two together. That will avoid the need to disturb the
fixing of the ceiling, while still carrying its weight.

I had thought of something like that, if necessary, but I haven't seen a
hanger that would let me get a new joist close up against an existing
one. Maybe it would work with a spacer at each fixing though.

You could get a wide shoe hanger that bolts onto the wall - then place
it round the ends of both old and new joists side by side.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 24/02/2015 22:38, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/02/2015 09:10, GMM wrote:
On 23/02/2015 23:47, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 23/02/2015 23:26, GMM wrote:
Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found
water has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over
it) and saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the
joist below. Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm
wondering what's best to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's
not
currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the bath.
Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I need to do
it soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and it supports
the (L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able
to hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then
let a bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to
deal
with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

I would fit a new joist, using joist hangers, alongside the old joist
and bolt the two together. That will avoid the need to disturb the
fixing of the ceiling, while still carrying its weight.

I had thought of something like that, if necessary, but I haven't seen a
hanger that would let me get a new joist close up against an existing
one. Maybe it would work with a spacer at each fixing though.

You could get a wide shoe hanger that bolts onto the wall - then place
it round the ends of both old and new joists side by side.


I'd been trying to think of how that would work, as it's a 3inch joist
already, so I'd need a 5 - 6 inch hanger (if they exist?) plus to go
around the bottom it would mean I would have to cut away some of the L&P
ceiling. Currently, I'm hoping that the damage isn't too deep so the
bearing end is still up to the job. Then I can just let a new piece in
or pack the space with something, once I've removed the soft stuff.

On 26/02/2015 00:30, GMM wrote:
On 24/02/2015 22:38, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/02/2015 09:10, GMM wrote:
On 23/02/2015 23:47, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 23/02/2015 23:26, GMM wrote:
Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found
water has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over
it) and saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the
joist below. Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm
wondering what's best to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's
not
currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the bath.
Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I need to do
it soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and it supports
the (L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able
to hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then
let a bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to
deal
with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

I would fit a new joist, using joist hangers, alongside the old joist
and bolt the two together. That will avoid the need to disturb the
fixing of the ceiling, while still carrying its weight.

I had thought of something like that, if necessary, but I haven't seen a
hanger that would let me get a new joist close up against an existing
one. Maybe it would work with a spacer at each fixing though.

You could get a wide shoe hanger that bolts onto the wall - then place
it round the ends of both old and new joists side by side.


I'd been trying to think of how that would work, as it's a 3inch joist
already, so I'd need a 5 - 6 inch hanger (if they exist?) plus to go
around the bottom it would mean I would have to cut away some of the L&P
ceiling.

You can get wide ones, although I will admit I had forgotten about the
ceiling!

Having said that you could chop away a small bit of the underside of the
joist near the wall without disturbing the ceiling attached to it if you
needed to make a path for a shoe etc.

Currently, I'm hoping that the damage isn't too deep so the
bearing end is still up to the job. Then I can just let a new piece in
or pack the space with something, once I've removed the soft stuff.

Yup, there are plenty of options usually. Slate often makes a good
packer (crush resistant and also acts as a DPC).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 23/02/2015 23:26, GMM wrote:
Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found
water has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over
it) and saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the
joist below. Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm
wondering what's best to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's not
currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the bath.
Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I need to do
it soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and it supports
the (L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able
to hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then
let a bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to deal
with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

I would be tempted to fill the bath with a known quantity of water, and
measure the joist deflection and compare with the "good" joist.

The idea of taking down a L&P ceiling would horrify me. Its a very messy
process! Were you going to take it down anyway, in which I would follow
Colin's advice and place a good known joist along-side using joist hangars.

Having said that, most joist hangers I've seen aren't conducive to
sliding a joist into the hanger, so that might be more difficult that
it first seems.

GMM wrote:
Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found
water has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over
it) and saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the
joist below. Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm
wondering what's best to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's
not currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the
bath. Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I
need to do it soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and
it supports the (L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able
to hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then
let a bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to
deal with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

If the sponginess is less than a third of the depth of the joist and close
to the wall, then once you have eradicated the damp problem and the joist
has tried out you should be okay.

If you still feel unsure, just fish-plate a couple of lengths of 6x2 about
6 - 8 foot long either side (or only one side if cost and access is a
problem) using bolts and metal joist connectors. Drill the bolt holes in the
centres of the joists to retain maximum strength.

With regards to the 3" joist, is that supporting a stairway or other access,
or is the span between supporting wall excessive - as 3" joists are usually
used as Trimmer and Trimmed joists to carry the extra loads at openings?

Cash

On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 1:04:44 AM UTC, Cash wrote:
GMM wrote:

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket.

If the sponginess is less than a third of the depth of the joist and close
to the wall, then once you have eradicated the damp problem and the joist
has tried out you should be okay.

+1


NT

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 1:04:44 AM UTC, Cash wrote:
GMM wrote:

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket.

If the sponginess is less than a third of the depth of the joist and
close
to the wall, then once you have eradicated the damp problem and the joist
has tried out you should be okay.

+1

Further to that, it would be a good idea to apply timber preservative when
it's dried out just in case some dry rot has got a toe hold.

However if the wood is rotten there will be nothing to fix your floorboards
to.
Nothing stopping you cutting out rotten wood & splicing a bit in so long as
it goes right into the wall and using PVA glue and nails/screws.

On 24/02/2015 01:04, Cash wrote:
GMM wrote:
Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found
water has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over
it) and saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the
joist below. Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm
wondering what's best to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's
not currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the
bath. Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I
need to do it soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and
it supports the (L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able
to hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then
let a bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to
deal with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

If the sponginess is less than a third of the depth of the joist and close
to the wall, then once you have eradicated the damp problem and the joist
has tried out you should be okay.

If you still feel unsure, just fish-plate a couple of lengths of 6x2 about
6 - 8 foot long either side (or only one side if cost and access is a
problem) using bolts and metal joist connectors. Drill the bolt holes in the
centres of the joists to retain maximum strength.

With regards to the 3" joist, is that supporting a stairway or other access,
or is the span between supporting wall excessive - as 3" joists are usually
used as Trimmer and Trimmed joists to carry the extra loads at openings?

Cash


I'm sort of hoping that should be the case, but wanted to see if anyone
would tell me otherwise. Although it would be a pain to swap it out,
I'd rather do it while the room beneath is gutted if I have to.
Since this is very close to the end of the joist, I'm not sure
reinforcement along the length is really the issue. I'm more concerned
about the bearing end of the timber. It seems to have retained its
strength but softness at the top could, in principle, allow it to
deflect more and it could weaken in time. I think it needs hardener at
least and a good treatment for rot and insects wouldn't hurt, but I
suspect it will need building up/packing out to make up for any very
soft material I have to take out.

It's not a trimmer or anything: All the joists in this bathroom are 3 x
6 by 10ft. It's been there a long time (100 yr +), so I guess they just
used them to give a bit more strength for the depth. Not that it seems
to gain much, judging by modern span tables.

On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 9:08:53 AM UTC, GMM wrote:

Since this is very close to the end of the joist, I'm not sure
reinforcement along the length is really the issue. I'm more concerned
about the bearing end of the timber. It seems to have retained its
strength but softness at the top could, in principle, allow it to
deflect more

only to a trivial extent

and it could weaken in time.

I don't see how

I think it needs hardener at
least

doubt it

and a good treatment for rot and insects wouldn't hurt, but I

dry it & they should die


NT

On 24/02/2015 10:13, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 9:08:53 AM UTC, GMM wrote:

Since this is very close to the end of the joist, I'm not sure
reinforcement along the length is really the issue. I'm more concerned
about the bearing end of the timber. It seems to have retained its
strength but softness at the top could, in principle, allow it to
deflect more

only to a trivial extent

and it could weaken in time.

I don't see how

I think it needs hardener at
least

doubt it

and a good treatment for rot and insects wouldn't hurt, but I

dry it & they should die

I take the view that it is easier to do the best repair possible now,
while the floor is up, rather than find out later that a lesser repair
was not quite good enough.


--
Colin Bignell

On 24/02/2015 01:04, Cash wrote:


With regards to the 3" joist, is that supporting a stairway or other access,
or is the span between supporting wall excessive - as 3" joists are usually
used as Trimmer and Trimmed joists to carry the extra loads at openings?

Cash

I guess that 3" joists were used because they are only 6" deep.
Nowadays, the default for that span would be 7 x 2.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 5:49:02 PM UTC, Roger Mills wrote:
On 24/02/2015 01:04, Cash wrote:


With regards to the 3" joist, is that supporting a stairway or other access,
or is the span between supporting wall excessive - as 3" joists are usually
used as Trimmer and Trimmed joists to carry the extra loads at openings?

Cash

I guess that 3" joists were used because they are only 6" deep.
Nowadays, the default for that span would be 7 x 2.

2x4 is about the minimum over 10'. 3x6 were used for greater sound insulation


NT

On 24/02/2015 18:35, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 5:49:02 PM UTC, Roger Mills wrote:

I guess that 3" joists were used because they are only 6" deep.
Nowadays, the default for that span would be 7 x 2.

2x4 is about the minimum over 10'.

Not if the tables here are to be believed!
http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects...ring_walls.htm
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 7:54:47 PM UTC, Roger Mills wrote:
On 24/02/2015 18:35, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 5:49:02 PM UTC, Roger Mills wrote:

I guess that 3" joists were used because they are only 6" deep.
Nowadays, the default for that span would be 7 x 2.

2x4 is about the minimum over 10'.

Not if the tables here are to be believed!
http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects...ring_walls.htm

That's a build regs table, which is far removed from what's sufficient. BR oversizes joists massively in an attempt to reduce noise transmission. In Victorian times thick plaster was used to do that instead.


NT

On 23/02/2015 23:26, GMM wrote:
Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found
water has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over
it) and saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the
joist below. Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm
wondering what's best to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's not
currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the bath.
Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I need to do
it soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and it supports
the (L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able
to hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then
let a bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to deal
with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

IMHO it really depends on whether it might be dry rot. Having learned
the hard way from an instance which didn't have a clear dry rot
signature, but turned out to be.

"Dry rot" can cause a lot of unnecessary panic. But the real thing can
be nasty.

On 23/02/2015 23:26, GMM wrote:
Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found
water has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over
it) and saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the
joist below. Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm
wondering what's best to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's not
currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the bath.
Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I need to do
it soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and it supports
the (L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able to
hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then let a
bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to deal
with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

Chopping out the soggy bits and replacing with new timber will restore
the correct height for supporting the floorboards, and will make it fit
the socket properly - but will do nothing to restore the joist's bending
stiffness. As others have suggested, this may not matter - but if you
are worried about this, I would suggest bolting some metal plates -
maybe 3' long x 5" high x 1/4 thick to the sides of the joist at the
'soggy' end to reinforce it.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Personally I'd not hack out the piece but treat all wood which might get wet
in the future. If the damp bit is not right up against the wall, bridge the
part which might be weakened in some way and screw it up so its supported.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"GMM" wrote in message
...
Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found water
has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over it) and
saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the joist below.
Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm wondering what's best
to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's not
currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the bath.
Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I need to do it
soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and it supports the
(L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able to
hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then let a
bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to deal
with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

On Monday, February 23, 2015 at 11:26:45 PM UTC, GMM wrote:
Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found
water has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over
it) and saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the
joist below. Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm
wondering what's best to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's not
currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the bath.
Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I need to do
it soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and it supports
the (L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able
to hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then
let a bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to deal
with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.


Happy to advise you on our pro bono terms [ http://www.atics.co.uk/pro-bono-terms-of-contract/ ] as follows:
Step 1 Determine for sure the extend of the decay. If, as alleged, it is 30 to 40 mm deep and in the top that is neither here nor there and as Cash and Roger Mills say it will be OK
2 if not as little as that determine if it goes or exists in the tension bottom edge as that is critical
3 if not then the repairs are simply to put a block in the top (compression) zone to carry the floor board and that is best done with a suitable gap filling glue prior to screwing in the board above
4 Additionally, and this is key to prevent future decay, you need to rake out all the brick around the bearing using a long masonry bit and plugging chisel or whatever you can to get it all out. If necessary, cut out the side with an angle grinder or just take out a brick. There is no other option if you want to be sure of not getting decay. (I am an expert in this field)
You need to get to the top, both sides and if possible a finger round the end of the whole of the bearing pocket.
5 put in a boron based preservative paste on the whole of the exposed joist end and any wall plate and masonry below. Safeguard Chemicals do suitable products but absent that just buy some boric acid and dissolve or suspend in glycol (care!)
6 put a dpm round the timber before you brick up and when you do put also a thin slip of ply or the like in a poly bag next to the joist side when bricking up so that once set you can remove the timber and there is a nice 1/2 " cavity for ventilation
Job done! BUT
if the joist has gone further and is decayed but only in the cavity and not in the room (ie you have timber up to the face of the wall that is sound) then use a BAT Joist angle or rightangle plate to support the timber. This requires no bolting on as it is a nailed connection. Email me off line if you need more information on this.
If decay is in the room you need to bolt on a new 6" x 2" timber probably about 600 mm long with four bolts. I disagree with going into the neutral axis as it is a better connection half way into the compression and tension zones. You will need the classic four bolts two top two bottom and there is no need to stagger if the timber is not too wet. So that would be 100mm end distance and 50 mm side distance in accordance with the old CP112 or its subsequent BRs
Chris

On 25/02/2015 08:46, wrote:
On Monday, February 23, 2015 at 11:26:45 PM UTC, GMM wrote:
Furtling under the floor in the bathroom for other reasons, I found
water has been running down the side of the bath (from the shower over
it) and saturated a confined area of a floorboard, together with the
joist below. Now that I've resolved the source of the water, I'm
wondering what's best to do about the joist.

It's a 3x6, spanning 3m, fitted into sockets in the brickwork. It's not
currently bouncy or anything, but it does suport the side of the bath.
Replacing it would be a PITA but if I'm going to have to, I need to do
it soon, as I'm currently working on the room beneath and it supports
the (L&P) ceiling.

The wood is 'spongy' for the top 30/40mm just before it goes into the
socket. I'm thinking that when it's had a chance to dry I may be able
to hack out the soft bit, treat the remainder with wood hardener then
let a bit of fresh timber in to restore the dmensions (to level it for
floorboards and stop if rising in the socket).

Does this sound like an adequate repair or is there a better way to deal
with it? Any sensible advice would be appreciated.


Happy to advise you on our pro bono terms [ http://www.atics.co.uk/pro-bono-terms-of-contract/ ] as follows:
Step 1 Determine for sure the extend of the decay. If, as alleged, it is 30 to 40 mm deep and in the top that is neither here nor there and as Cash and Roger Mills say it will be OK
2 if not as little as that determine if it goes or exists in the tension bottom edge as that is critical
3 if not then the repairs are simply to put a block in the top (compression) zone to carry the floor board and that is best done with a suitable gap filling glue prior to screwing in the board above
4 Additionally, and this is key to prevent future decay, you need to rake out all the brick around the bearing using a long masonry bit and plugging chisel or whatever you can to get it all out. If necessary, cut out the side with an angle grinder or just take out a brick. There is no other option if you want to be sure of not getting decay. (I am an expert in this field)
You need to get to the top, both sides and if possible a finger round the end of the whole of the bearing pocket.
5 put in a boron based preservative paste on the whole of the exposed joist end and any wall plate and masonry below. Safeguard Chemicals do suitable products but absent that just buy some boric acid and dissolve or suspend in glycol (care!)
6 put a dpm round the timber before you brick up and when you do put also a thin slip of ply or the like in a poly bag next to the joist side when bricking up so that once set you can remove the timber and there is a nice 1/2 " cavity for ventilation
Job done! BUT
if the joist has gone further and is decayed but only in the cavity and not in the room (ie you have timber up to the face of the wall that is sound) then use a BAT Joist angle or rightangle plate to support the timber. This requires no bolting on as it is a nailed connection. Email me off line if you need more information on this.
If decay is in the room you need to bolt on a new 6" x 2" timber probably about 600 mm long with four bolts. I disagree with going into the neutral axis as it is a better connection half way into the compression and tension zones. You will need the classic four bolts two top two bottom and there is no need to stagger if the timber is not too wet. So that would be 100mm end distance and 50 mm side distance in accordance with the old CP112 or its subsequent BRs
Chris


Thanks Chris. A comprehensive guide to these issues. Since I know what
caused this, I have my fingers crossed that once it has had a chance to
dry out, the damage should prove to be minimal, ie option 1. It would
be a real pain to have to do extensive work on it but at least the room
below is empty and being worked on just now, so it could be worse.
Your website must be down as that link wouldn't load for me, but I
assume it says something like if you don't pay for it, then it's not
your fault(!)

John R
You do not need to cut away the ceiling. Prop the joist under with head and sole plate and wrap head plate in a blanket. That done use a Fein multimaster or similar from above to cut out 10 mm or so of the bottom of the joist from each side. You will need a metal cutting blade to cut through the cutnail if there is a wall plate present. If a wall plate is present and decayed - cut it out and brick up. If not - dry pack and slate is the answer making sure you put a dpc under the timber wherever you can.

On 01/03/2015 09:08, wrote:

John R You do not need to cut away the ceiling. Prop the joist under

Sorry I did not mean to give the impression that was what I was
suggesting...

I meant (as you have more clearly explained here!) that one can cut away
part of the joist with the ceiling still in place[1].

I was thinking in terms of being able to get a wall mounting shoe/hanger
under the joist end with the ceiling undisturbed, if its decided by the
OP that the joist is basically sound apart from the very end that is
currently in the wall recess.

with head and sole plate and wrap head plate in a blanket. That done
use a Fein multimaster or similar from above to cut out 10 mm or so
of the bottom of the joist from each side. You will need a metal
cutting blade to cut through the cutnail if there is a wall plate
present. If a wall plate is present and decayed - cut it out and
brick up. If not - dry pack and slate is the answer making sure you
put a dpc under the timber wherever you can.

Indeed sounds like a good plan.

[1] On one occasion I was able to completely remove a ceiling joist and
leave the ceiling mostly untouched simply by chainsawing it into
sections and pulling it off the back of the ceiling. (I did end up
popping a bit of plaster skim off it in one place by hitting a nail with
the chainsaw)


--
Cheers,

John.

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