Folks,

I live in a sheltered housing development directly adjacent to the
village's football club. So far, we've got along just fine with the
club and its players and we'd like that to continue. However, the club
has submitted an application to install floodlights which is giving us
cause for concern...

The Environmental Health Officer's report on the proposal has this to say:

The proposal is for 4 18m high poles with luminaires. I have not had
experience with the luminaires proposed for this development they are
the non horizontal non asymmetrical throw types relying on lenses and
baffles to direct light to where it needs to be. They are at 18m to
ensure that the light can be directed downwards enough to illuminate
the pitch and minimise overspill.
The lighting levels showing the horizontal Lux levels and vertical Lux
levels demonstrate that the lighting can provide lighting levels of,
Between 84 Lux and 312 Lux on field with averages being around the
200 Lux mark (Horizontal Levels), ۬
Horizontal over spill of around 1Lux at the nearest residential
accommodation, ۬
Vertical overspill at 1.5m of 1Lux to 1.7 Lux on the vertical surface
for the nearest residential building (this would equate to ground floor
window level.
These levels are well within the Current ILP Guidance Notes for Light
Pollution. ۬

Quite frankly, we don't understand what these "spill" figures mean in
day-to-day terms. Are they equivalent to a full moon? A car headlight?
A room light?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Peter

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 5:20:45 PM UTC, Neddie Seagoon wrote:
Folks,

I live in a sheltered housing development directly adjacent to the
village's football club. So far, we've got along just fine with the
club and its players and we'd like that to continue. However, the club
has submitted an application to install floodlights which is giving us
cause for concern...

The Environmental Health Officer's report on the proposal has this to say:

The proposal is for 4 18m high poles with luminaires. I have not had
experience with the luminaires proposed for this development they are
the non horizontal non asymmetrical throw types relying on lenses and
baffles to direct light to where it needs to be. They are at 18m to
ensure that the light can be directed downwards enough to illuminate
the pitch and minimise overspill.
The lighting levels showing the horizontal Lux levels and vertical Lux
levels demonstrate that the lighting can provide lighting levels of,
Between 84 Lux and 312 Lux on field with averages being around the
200 Lux mark (Horizontal Levels), ۬
Horizontal over spill of around 1Lux at the nearest residential
accommodation, ۬
Vertical overspill at 1.5m of 1Lux to 1.7 Lux on the vertical surface
for the nearest residential building (this would equate to ground floor
window level.
These levels are well within the Current ILP Guidance Notes for Light
Pollution. ۬

Quite frankly, we don't understand what these "spill" figures mean in
day-to-day terms. Are they equivalent to a full moon? A car headlight?
A room light?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Peter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lux

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 5:20:45 PM UTC, Neddie Seagoon wrote:
Folks,

I live in a sheltered housing development directly adjacent to the
village's football club. So far, we've got along just fine with the
club and its players and we'd like that to continue. However, the club
has submitted an application to install floodlights which is giving us
cause for concern...

Can't help with the technicalities but, for what it's worth, our previous house backed on to a rugby pitch and the floodlights were never a problem. I don't recall even being aware they were switched on with the upstairs curtains drawn.

These would've been quite old floodlights and I doubt that anyone thought much about light pollution when they were installed.

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 5:20:45 PM UTC, Neddie Seagoon wrote:
Folks,

I live in a sheltered housing development directly adjacent to the
village's football club. So far, we've got along just fine with the
club and its players and we'd like that to continue. However, the club
has submitted an application to install floodlights which is giving us
cause for concern...

The Environmental Health Officer's report on the proposal has this to say:

The proposal is for 4 18m high poles with luminaires. I have not had
experience with the luminaires proposed for this development they are
the non horizontal non asymmetrical throw types relying on lenses and
baffles to direct light to where it needs to be. They are at 18m to
ensure that the light can be directed downwards enough to illuminate
the pitch and minimise overspill.
The lighting levels showing the horizontal Lux levels and vertical Lux
levels demonstrate that the lighting can provide lighting levels of,
Between 84 Lux and 312 Lux on field with averages being around the
200 Lux mark (Horizontal Levels), ۬
Horizontal over spill of around 1Lux at the nearest residential
accommodation, ۬
Vertical overspill at 1.5m of 1Lux to 1.7 Lux on the vertical surface
for the nearest residential building (this would equate to ground floor
window level.
These levels are well within the Current ILP Guidance Notes for Light
Pollution. ۬

Quite frankly, we don't understand what these "spill" figures mean in
day-to-day terms. Are they equivalent to a full moon? A car headlight?
A room light?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Peter

perhaps you could ask around to discover where similar systems are in operation and go see for yourself.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 17:20:43 +0000, Neddie Seagoon
wrote:

Folks,

I live in a sheltered housing development directly adjacent to the
village's football club. So far, we've got along just fine with the
club and its players and we'd like that to continue. However, the club
has submitted an application to install floodlights which is giving us
cause for concern...


Quite frankly, we don't understand what these "spill" figures mean in
day-to-day terms. Are they equivalent to a full moon? A car headlight?
A room light?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Are these Floodlights to illuminate the pitch or floodlights in
general?
If it is the Pitch then how often would they be on for, if it is only
a couple of times a week in the season for duration of practice
sessions and a game or two then may be it might be just something to
live with. Sports facilities have hidden benefits like giving some
youngsters something to do instead of vandlising the area .

G.Harman

mike wrote in
:

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 5:20:45 PM UTC, Neddie Seagoon wrote:
Folks,

I live in a sheltered housing development directly adjacent to the
village's football club. So far, we've got along just fine with the
club and its players and we'd like that to continue. However, the
club has submitted an application to install floodlights which is
giving us cause for concern...

Can't help with the technicalities but, for what it's worth, our
previous house backed on to a rugby pitch and the floodlights were
never a problem. I don't recall even being aware they were switched
on with the upstairs curtains drawn.

These would've been quite old floodlights and I doubt that anyone
thought much about light pollution when they were installed.



When I did stage lighting I was very careful not to all allow scatter. We
had barn-door-shutters on many lights to carefully shape the beam. Some
installations now just seem to try to "light up the air". Bulkhead type
fittings in large car-parks are the worse. 50% of the light merely escaping
upwards.

In message , Neddie Seagoon
writes
Folks,

I live in a sheltered housing development directly adjacent to the
village's football club. So far, we've got along just fine with the
club and its players and we'd like that to continue. However, the club
has submitted an application to install floodlights which is giving us
cause for concern...

The Environmental Health Officer's report on the proposal has this to say:

The proposal is for 4 18m high poles with luminaires. I have not had
experience with the luminaires proposed for this development they are
the non horizontal non asymmetrical throw types relying on lenses and
baffles to direct light to where it needs to be. They are at 18m to
ensure that the light can be directed downwards enough to illuminate
the pitch and minimise overspill.
The lighting levels showing the horizontal Lux levels and vertical Lux
levels demonstrate that the lighting can provide lighting levels of,
Between 84 Lux and 312 Lux on field with averages being
around the 200 Lux mark (Horizontal Levels), 0 Horizontal over spill of around 1Lux at the nearest
residential accommodation, 0 Vertical overspill at 1.5m of 1Lux to 1.7 Lux on the
vertical surface for the nearest residential building (this would
equate to ground floor window level.
These levels are well within the Current ILP Guidance
Notes for Light Pollution. 0
Quite frankly, we don't understand what these "spill" figures mean in
day-to-day terms. Are they equivalent to a full moon? A car headlight?
A room light?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Peter

Well 1 lux is 1 lumen per sq meter so it sound pretty low to me.
The guidance notes are in an acrobat file and can be found here
https://www.theilp.org.uk/documents/obtrusive-light/
--
bert

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 17:38:37 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

This overspill is presumably unwanted light directly from the lights.

That is how I would read it as well.

What about light reflected from other objects.

That would be additional and dependant on those objects, light
coloured or dark?

As for what 1 lux is, the ambient light in this room is 40 to 50 lux
according to the light sensor in my tablet with it "looking" at the
white ceiling. The small galley kitchen with white walls/ceiling lit
with a bare 5' 58 W flourecent is 150 ish lux when shaded from the
lamp. Phone doesn't have a light sensor so can't collaborate the
tablets reading.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 24/12/2014 18:02, mike wrote:


Can't help with the technicalities but, for what it's worth, our previous house backed on to a rugby pitch and the floodlights were never a problem. I don't recall even being aware they were switched on with the upstairs curtains drawn.

These would've been quite old floodlights and I doubt that anyone thought much about light pollution when they were installed.



And I presume they would only be on in the early evening for a match or
training.

The poles may not be an attractive feature to the skyline.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article ,
says...

On 24/12/2014 18:02, mike wrote:


Can't help with the technicalities but, for what it's worth, our previous house backed on to a rugby pitch and the floodlights were never a problem. I don't recall even being aware they were switched on with the upstairs curtains drawn.

These would've been quite old floodlights and I doubt that anyone thought much about light pollution when they were installed.



And I presume they would only be on in the early evening for a match or
training.

The poles may not be an attractive feature to the skyline.

UKip get everywhere!

Can we stick to DIY please?

--
Sam

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 19:03:19 GMT, DerbyBorn wrote:

When I did stage lighting I was very careful not to all allow scatter. We
had barn-door-shutters on many lights to carefully shape the beam. Some
installations now just seem to try to "light up the air". Bulkhead type
fittings in large car-parks are the worse. 50% of the light merely escaping
upwards.

My outside bulkheads have aluminium foil between glass and cage to 'shape'
the spread. One, with a 3.5W LED illuminates everything I need to see but
doesn't dazzle the neighbours. The other has a whisper 60W GLS / but is
on for ~10 min/year, so not worth changing.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

In article , Neddie Seagoon
writes

I live in a sheltered housing development directly adjacent to the
village's football club. So far, we've got along just fine with the
club and its players and we'd like that to continue. However, the club
has submitted an application to install floodlights which is giving us
cause for concern...

The Environmental Health Officer's report on the proposal has this to say:

The proposal is for 4 18m high poles with luminaires. I have not had
experience with the luminaires proposed for this development they are
the non horizontal non asymmetrical throw types relying on lenses and
baffles to direct light to where it needs to be. They are at 18m to
ensure that the light can be directed downwards enough to illuminate
the pitch and minimise overspill.
The lighting levels showing the horizontal Lux levels and vertical Lux
levels demonstrate that the lighting can provide lighting levels of,
Between 84 Lux and 312 Lux on field with averages being around
the
200 Lux mark (Horizontal Levels), 0 Horizontal over spill of around 1Lux at the nearest residential
accommodation, 0 Vertical overspill at 1.5m of 1Lux to 1.7 Lux on the vertical surface
for the nearest residential building (this would equate to ground floor
window level.
These levels are well within the Current ILP Guidance Notes for
Light
Pollution. 0
Quite frankly, we don't understand what these "spill" figures mean in
day-to-day terms. Are they equivalent to a full moon? A car headlight?
A room light?

They're right, the taller the masts, the more likely they will be able
to direct the luminaries downwards and reduce nuisance 'spill'.

Modern luminaries are really very well designed and have very well
controlled beams.

The current limits for nuisance spill are 5 lux (and perfectly
acceptable) so the 1-1.7 lux quoted should be no problem at all.

The only risk is that the design is provided by an expert company but
the erection and aiming is done by a bunch of DIY ****s linked to the
club who purloin a cherry picker for an afternoon.

If there is a planning consultation, request a requirement that the
installation is inspected by the council planning department after
completion to verify that the design limits are met (measured with a lux
meter at night) and that they are to remain dark until they meet the
design spec. Request a time limit on how late they can be used 9 or 10pm
being reasonable[1].

In very broad terms, modern luminaries for these applications are
designed to be installed with the glass face horizontal so any hint of a
tilt upwards is an indication of an amateur and non-compliant install.

At 1-1.7 lux, you wont even know they are on, think dipped headlamp beam
half a mile away.

A lux meter for a tenner from maplin or on ebay should put your mind at
rest.

See if you can get a copy of the lux plot from the design documentation,
it's usually part of the planning application and will likely have the
details of the planned luminaries. TBH, I'd expect 12m masts to be
sufficient for a simple football pitch sized installation unless they
are planning to illuminate a a larger area for practice.

[1] To misquote an old Squeeze track, "we don't mind the lighting, it's
the swearing we don't need . . . . "
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 28/12/2014 19:08, fred wrote:
In article , Neddie Seagoon
writes

I live in a sheltered housing development directly adjacent to the
village's football club. So far, we've got along just fine with the
club and its players and we'd like that to continue. However, the club
has submitted an application to install floodlights which is giving us
cause for concern...

The Environmental Health Officer's report on the proposal has this to
say:

The proposal is for 4 18m high poles with luminaires. I have not had
experience with the luminaires proposed for this development they are
the non horizontal non asymmetrical throw types relying on lenses and
baffles to direct light to where it needs to be. They are at 18m to
ensure that the light can be directed downwards enough to illuminate
the pitch and minimise overspill.
The lighting levels showing the horizontal Lux levels and vertical Lux
levels demonstrate that the lighting can provide lighting levels of,
Between 84 Lux and 312 Lux on field with averages being
around
the
200 Lux mark (Horizontal Levels), 0 Horizontal over
spill of around 1Lux at the nearest residential
accommodation, 0 Vertical overspill at 1.5m of 1Lux to
1.7 Lux on the vertical surface
for the nearest residential building (this would equate to ground floor
window level.
These levels are well within the Current ILP Guidance
Notes for
Light
Pollution. 0
Quite frankly, we don't understand what these "spill" figures mean in
day-to-day terms. Are they equivalent to a full moon? A car headlight?
A room light?

They're right, the taller the masts, the more likely they will be able
to direct the luminaries downwards and reduce nuisance 'spill'.

Modern luminaries are really very well designed and have very well
controlled beams.

The current limits for nuisance spill are 5 lux (and perfectly
acceptable) so the 1-1.7 lux quoted should be no problem at all.

The only risk is that the design is provided by an expert company but
the erection and aiming is done by a bunch of DIY ****s linked to the
club who purloin a cherry picker for an afternoon.

If there is a planning consultation, request a requirement that the
installation is inspected by the council planning department after
completion to verify that the design limits are met (measured with a lux
meter at night) and that they are to remain dark until they meet the
design spec. Request a time limit on how late they can be used 9 or 10pm
being reasonable[1].

In very broad terms, modern luminaries for these applications are
designed to be installed with the glass face horizontal so any hint of a
tilt upwards is an indication of an amateur and non-compliant install.

At 1-1.7 lux, you wont even know they are on, think dipped headlamp beam
half a mile away.

A lux meter for a tenner from maplin or on ebay should put your mind at
rest.

See if you can get a copy of the lux plot from the design documentation,
it's usually part of the planning application and will likely have the
details of the planned luminaries. TBH, I'd expect 12m masts to be
sufficient for a simple football pitch sized installation unless they
are planning to illuminate a a larger area for practice.

[1] To misquote an old Squeeze track, "we don't mind the lighting, it's
the swearing we don't need . . . . "

Did you know, Cool for Cats is only one of two songs where Chris Difford
did the vocals?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 28/12/2014 19:08, fred wrote:
At 1-1.7 lux, you wont even know they are on, think dipped headlamp beam
half a mile away.

There's a village football field near me that has installed lights.

They do indeed look like a car headlight from half a mile away. And not
dipped. That's enough to be annoying on roads that dark

Andy

In article , The Medway Handyman
writes
On 28/12/2014 19:08, fred wrote:

[1] To misquote an old Squeeze track, "we don't mind the lighting, it's
the swearing we don't need . . . . "

Did you know, Cool for Cats is only one of two songs where Chris Difford
did the vocals?

In a word no. I wondered if it was because he had written it and so
wanted to sing it but I see he was the main songwriter for the band so
that doesn't fit. He does have a really distinctive voice though and it
worked well for that song.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

Vir Campestris wrote in news:c9CdnS-
:

On 28/12/2014 19:08, fred wrote:
At 1-1.7 lux, you wont even know they are on, think dipped headlamp beam
half a mile away.

There's a village football field near me that has installed lights.

They do indeed look like a car headlight from half a mile away. And not
dipped. That's enough to be annoying on roads that dark

Andy


Golf Driving Ranges are the worse. They tend to use circular lamps aimed
horizontally. 50% of the light is stray.