Been playing with some of this "new" Z-Wave RF home automation stuff.

In particular, the VeraLite internet controller (runs OpenWRT inside
plus some proprietary stuff), and these two devices:

http://aeotec.com/z-wave-sensor/47-m...or-manual.html

(Temperature, humidity, light and PIR sensor)


http://www.tkbhome.com/?cn-p-d-259.html
(I have the 13A version) remote switch and power meter.


Certainly has some potential. I've been wanting to do a study on how
much heat is needed in this house vs external temperature - plus I want
to keep an eye on the humidity in the shed so my tools don't go rusty.

It's looking interesting. The main sticking point is the VeraLite is a
nice piece of inexpensive hardware - but the software reeks of
immaturity. I've been advised to consider downgrading to an earlier
version before they broke everything.

I think, long term a Raspberry Pi with ZWave adaptor would be better,
but right now, I wanted something with some functionality that "just
works" - like timers to switch the remote switches for the heaters.

Anyone else played with this stuff?

Tim Watts wrote:

Been playing with some of this "new" Z-Wave RF home automation stuff...

Certainly has some potential. I've been wanting to do a study on how
much heat is needed in this house vs external temperature - plus I want
to keep an eye on the humidity in the shed so my tools don't go rusty.

Have you read the (US) Amazon.com reviews of the various parts? It looks to
me as if other users' experiences (and also references to US forums on the
Vera thing) would be a good place to pick up real-life pros and cons.


It's looking interesting.

I agree, and it almost looks cheap enough to buy stuff just to have a play.


--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

Tim Watts wrote:

Anyone else played with this stuff?

No, I do remember reading up on zigbee ages ago, but there seem to be
too many competing, conceptually similar technologies, to the extent
that if one of them hasn't become dominant in the last 15 years, I
wonder if any of them will in the next 15?

On 02/11/14 11:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

Anyone else played with this stuff?

No, I do remember reading up on zigbee ages ago, but there seem to be
too many competing, conceptually similar technologies, to the extent
that if one of them hasn't become dominant in the last 15 years, I
wonder if any of them will in the next 15?



Well, it *seems* to be ZWave that starting to float.

You certainly can mix and match random parts made by different companies
- so they seem to have learnt a valuable lesson with all the proprietary
nonsense.

On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 22:01:14 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

Been playing with some of this "new" Z-Wave RF home automation stuff.

In particular, the VeraLite internet controller (runs OpenWRT inside
plus some proprietary stuff), and these two devices:

http://aeotec.com/z-wave-sensor/47-m...or-manual.html

(Temperature, humidity, light and PIR sensor)


http://www.tkbhome.com/?cn-p-d-259.html
(I have the 13A version) remote switch and power meter.


Certainly has some potential. I've been wanting to do a study on how
much heat is needed in this house vs external temperature - plus I want
to keep an eye on the humidity in the shed so my tools don't go rusty.

It's looking interesting. The main sticking point is the VeraLite is a
nice piece of inexpensive hardware - but the software reeks of
immaturity. I've been advised to consider downgrading to an earlier
version before they broke everything.

I think, long term a Raspberry Pi with ZWave adaptor would be better,
but right now, I wanted something with some functionality that "just
works" - like timers to switch the remote switches for the heaters.

Anyone else played with this stuff?

I have a number of Z-Wave modules that is used with a program called
Homeseer. AFAICS, much better then Vera, but also more expensive, and
not without issues. (Vera has been going for years, so the software
should be mature, but I expect they've just given up on it.)

Z-wave is OK once it's been set up and you don't change anything, but
isn't as reliable as is claimed.

If a module gets disconnected or fails the network is liable to fail
completely. The Aeon labs z-wave controller seems to be buggy - if
z-wave message rate is too hiigh it stops responding. Some of the
battery powered modules (motion sensors) have an arcane method of
joining the network. When the batteries need replacing you have to
reconnect them to the network; as you've forgotten how you did it the
first time you spend ages tracking down the well-hidden technique.

For logging temperature/humidity I wouldn't use Z-wave. I mainly use
1-wire temperature sensors. Interfaces can be had quite cheaply and,
if you're a Linux user, there are a few Linux based logging solutions.
OWFS seems to be well regarded. http://owfs.org/

There are RF 1-wire devices, but they tend to be a bit pricy. Oregon
wireless sensors are cheapish but you would need some sort of RF
interface, which is likely to be a bit pricy. I use a rx/tx from
RFXCOM which supports a lot of protocols.

On 02/11/14 12:39, Bill Taylor wrote:
On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 22:01:14 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

Been playing with some of this "new" Z-Wave RF home automation stuff.

In particular, the VeraLite internet controller (runs OpenWRT inside
plus some proprietary stuff), and these two devices:

http://aeotec.com/z-wave-sensor/47-m...or-manual.html

(Temperature, humidity, light and PIR sensor)


http://www.tkbhome.com/?cn-p-d-259.html
(I have the 13A version) remote switch and power meter.


Certainly has some potential. I've been wanting to do a study on how
much heat is needed in this house vs external temperature - plus I want
to keep an eye on the humidity in the shed so my tools don't go rusty.

It's looking interesting. The main sticking point is the VeraLite is a
nice piece of inexpensive hardware - but the software reeks of
immaturity. I've been advised to consider downgrading to an earlier
version before they broke everything.

I think, long term a Raspberry Pi with ZWave adaptor would be better,
but right now, I wanted something with some functionality that "just
works" - like timers to switch the remote switches for the heaters.

Anyone else played with this stuff?

I have a number of Z-Wave modules that is used with a program called
Homeseer. AFAICS, much better then Vera, but also more expensive, and
not without issues. (Vera has been going for years, so the software
should be mature, but I expect they've just given up on it.)

Rather the opposite - they've released so-called "UI7" formware which
seems to be buggy and breaks plugin compatibility with "UI5".

I'm going to revert mine to UI5 but I have to get Vera's support to
remove the "auto upgrade to UI7 flag on their database" (the damn thing
is mostly stand alone, but insists on jabbering to their portal for some
stuff.

The Vera Lite is a nice bit of hardware - and as it runs OpenWRT as the
base to the MiOS OS I wonder if there are any open source projects
targetting it...

Z-wave is OK once it's been set up and you don't change anything, but
isn't as reliable as is claimed.

My outside module keeps causing whines that "it's not contactable" - but
I think that's more the Vera being fussy.

The power switch plug is 100% solid and sports a reassuring "click" of a
relay

The scheduler is weak - it's edge driven, meaning if the vera goes off
covering a switching cycle you are out of sync until the next one.

As it has feedback from the plug, it needs a scheduler that can ensure
everying is in the right state for "now" even if it's only just booted.

I'm going to learn the scripting language as see how that goes.



If a module gets disconnected or fails the network is liable to fail
completely. The Aeon labs z-wave controller seems to be buggy - if
z-wave message rate is too hiigh it stops responding. Some of the
battery powered modules (motion sensors) have an arcane method of
joining the network. When the batteries need replacing you have to
reconnect them to the network; as you've forgotten how you did it the
first time you spend ages tracking down the well-hidden technique.

For logging temperature/humidity I wouldn't use Z-wave. I mainly use
1-wire temperature sensors. Interfaces can be had quite cheaply and,
if you're a Linux user, there are a few Linux based logging solutions.
OWFS seems to be well regarded. http://owfs.org/

There are RF 1-wire devices, but they tend to be a bit pricy. Oregon
wireless sensors are cheapish but you would need some sort of RF
interface, which is likely to be a bit pricy. I use a rx/tx from
RFXCOM which supports a lot of protocols.

Tim Watts wrote:

I'm going to learn the scripting language as see how that goes.

Please keep us informed!


--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

On 02/11/14 15:39, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

I'm going to learn the scripting language as see how that goes.

Please keep us informed!



Certainly - I have nearly done with my plumbing. Taking the week "off"
to fiddle with Vera stuff...

On 01/11/2014 22:01, Tim Watts wrote:
Been playing with some of this "new" Z-Wave RF home automation stuff.

Speaking of which, does anyone else have range problems with these
things? I often find that my boiler hasn't come on because the
thermostat is out of range. The thermostat thinks it's turned on the
boiler, but it has failed to do so. So then I have to wander over to the
garage, dial down the temperature and dial it back up to get them back
in sync.

I could site the thermostat nearer the boiler, but that rather defeats
the point of a wireless thermostat.

On 04/11/14 13:34, Jon Connell wrote:
On 01/11/2014 22:01, Tim Watts wrote:
Been playing with some of this "new" Z-Wave RF home automation stuff.

Speaking of which, does anyone else have range problems with these
things? I often find that my boiler hasn't come on because the
thermostat is out of range. The thermostat thinks it's turned on the
boiler, but it has failed to do so. So then I have to wander over to the
garage, dial down the temperature and dial it back up to get them back
in sync.

What technology is the RF link in your case Jon?

Honeywell's stuff is moderately well designed - they (usually, last I
read) send out repeated signals confirming the required state, so if one
is missed, it merely delays the switching operation for a few minutes -
which is a reasonable compromise for simplex comms.

The Zwave stuff (at least the switches) seems to be half duplex - you
send the switching command then you get an ACK back if it happened. Much
better design. You also get a warning if it did not get an ACK.


I could site the thermostat nearer the boiler, but that rather defeats
the point of a wireless thermostat.

Is there an RF extender available for your system?

On 04/11/2014 14:05, Tim Watts wrote:
What technology is the RF link in your case Jon?

Honeywell's stuff is moderately well designed - they (usually, last I
read) send out repeated signals confirming the required state, so if one
is missed, it merely delays the switching operation for a few minutes -
which is a reasonable compromise for simplex comms.

It's a Horstmann Z-Wave thermostat. One zone works well, but the other
with a different thermostat is very flaky. That does happen to be in the
bit of the house with thick walls.

Is there an RF extender available for your system?

Are they vendor-specific, or generic to the Z-Wave protocol?

On 04/11/14 14:13, Jon Connell wrote:
On 04/11/2014 14:05, Tim Watts wrote:
What technology is the RF link in your case Jon?

Honeywell's stuff is moderately well designed - they (usually, last I
read) send out repeated signals confirming the required state, so if one
is missed, it merely delays the switching operation for a few minutes -
which is a reasonable compromise for simplex comms.

It's a Horstmann Z-Wave thermostat. One zone works well, but the other
with a different thermostat is very flaky. That does happen to be in the
bit of the house with thick walls.

Is there an RF extender available for your system?

Are they vendor-specific, or generic to the Z-Wave protocol?

I *believe* they are generic - but some research may be called for.

Some Z-Wave devices are supposed to be able to act as routing nodes to
make the mesh stronger too.

Surprised that it is not setting up a duplex command channel - unless
your signal is so weak it really can't get through...

In article ,
Jon Connell writes:
On 01/11/2014 22:01, Tim Watts wrote:
Been playing with some of this "new" Z-Wave RF home automation stuff.

Speaking of which, does anyone else have range problems with these
things? I often find that my boiler hasn't come on because the
thermostat is out of range. The thermostat thinks it's turned on the
boiler, but it has failed to do so. So then I have to wander over to the
garage, dial down the temperature and dial it back up to get them back
in sync.

I could site the thermostat nearer the boiler, but that rather defeats
the point of a wireless thermostat.

Can you move the receiver nearer the middle of the house?
(Yes, that also defeats some of the point of a wireless thermostat,
although you may be able to better move it around.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 04/11/2014 16:26, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Can you move the receiver nearer the middle of the house?
(Yes, that also defeats some of the point of a wireless thermostat,
although you may be able to better move it around.)

That's an option, yes. And would be better than buying a wired
thermostat. Less chasing in walls means happier Mrs.