My mother has a couple of solid fuel stoves in her house. One is only used infrequently. How important is it to fit a weather guard of some kind to the pot?

The other is lit most days over the winter. There is a sectional metal flue that rises from the top of the stove, through two angles, into the top of the alchove. Where it becomes brick. It goes through two more angles, accessible through a hatch in the external wall. It becomes first a brick chimney and then a lined chimney.

When lit at first the fire draws okay, however when it becomes hot it starts to struggle. Often going out completely. It does perform better on coal than wood. It would be better if it could run on wood. The second problem is it can 'blow back' under certain conditions, such as a door being quickly closed or a extractor fan being run in the house.

The first thing I am going to try is sealing the joints between the metal flue sections, starting with the join to the top of the stove. I see screwfix lists pluma flue (66373) but that is only rated to 300C firestop (25153) is rated to 1200C but for ridgid seals. Is either suitable? There is an inspection panel in the round metal flue before the wall. The seal was a felt like substance that has deteriorated, what would it be called?

Thanks

wrote in message
...
My mother has a couple of solid fuel stoves in her house. One is only used
infrequently. How important is it to fit a weather guard of some kind to the
pot?

The other is lit most days over the winter. There is a sectional metal flue
that rises from the top of the stove, through two angles, into the top of
the alchove. Where it becomes brick. It goes through two more angles,
accessible through a hatch in the external wall. It becomes first a brick
chimney and then a lined chimney.

When lit at first the fire draws okay, however when it becomes hot it starts
to struggle. Often going out completely. It does perform better on coal than
wood. It would be better if it could run on wood. The second problem is it
can 'blow back' under certain conditions, such as a door being quickly
closed or a extractor fan being run in the house.

The first thing I am going to try is sealing the joints between the metal
flue sections, starting with the join to the top of the stove. I see
screwfix lists pluma flue (66373) but that is only rated to 300C firestop
(25153) is rated to 1200C but for ridgid seals. Is either suitable? There is
an inspection panel in the round metal flue before the wall. The seal was a
felt like substance that has deteriorated, what would it be called?

Thanks

It sounds to me that what is going on now has a killer potential for house
inmates. (From combustion gas products)
You would be best to get in an experienced heating engineer to sort out your
chimney /ventilation problems
Under no circumstances should you run the stove until all is sorted out.

First, your chimney needs attention, it likely needs a liner fitted.
There needs to be proper ventilation, ie air has to enter the room in order
for the chimney to function correctly.
You need to get a Carbon Monoxide alarm,

On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 08:15:42 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
My mother has a couple of solid fuel stoves in her house. One is only used
infrequently. How important is it to fit a weather guard of some kind to the
pot?

The other is lit most days over the winter. There is a sectional metal flue
that rises from the top of the stove, through two angles, into the top of
the alchove. Where it becomes brick. It goes through two more angles,
accessible through a hatch in the external wall. It becomes first a brick
chimney and then a lined chimney.

When lit at first the fire draws okay, however when it becomes hot it starts
to struggle. Often going out completely. It does perform better on coal than
wood. It would be better if it could run on wood. The second problem is it
can 'blow back' under certain conditions, such as a door being quickly
closed or a extractor fan being run in the house.

The first thing I am going to try is sealing the joints between the metal
flue sections, starting with the join to the top of the stove. I see
screwfix lists pluma flue (66373) but that is only rated to 300C firestop
(25153) is rated to 1200C but for ridgid seals. Is either suitable? There is
an inspection panel in the round metal flue before the wall. The seal was a
felt like substance that has deteriorated, what would it be called?

Thanks

It sounds to me that what is going on now has a killer potential for house
inmates. (From combustion gas products)
You would be best to get in an experienced heating engineer to sort out your
chimney /ventilation problems
Under no circumstances should you run the stove until all is sorted out.

First, your chimney needs attention, it likely needs a liner fitted.
There needs to be proper ventilation, ie air has to enter the room in order
for the chimney to function correctly.
You need to get a Carbon Monoxide alarm,


Absolutely endorse that.

You know, it's really not my habit
To intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning
Won't be lost or misconstrued
But I'll repeat myself
At the risk of being crude
There must be
Fifty Ways to Kill Your Mother


Light up the Stove, Jove
Slam shut the door, Paul
Turn on the fan, Sam
Just listen to me.

Block up the flu, Stu
Build up CO, Joe
Don't fit an alarm, ma'am
And get yourself free.




Nick

On Sunday, 12 October 2014 08:15:42 UTC+1, harry wrote:


You need to get a Carbon Monoxide alarm,

She already has the two I have bought her previously. The mains one she kept switched off "to save power" and the battery one she took the batteries out of to "save" them as well.

On 11/10/2014 20:00, wrote:
My mother has a couple of solid fuel stoves in her house. One is only used infrequently. How important is it to fit a weather guard of some kind to the pot?

The other is lit most days over the winter. There is a sectional metal flue that rises from the top of the stove, through two angles, into the top of the alchove. Where it becomes brick. It goes through two more angles, accessible through a hatch in the external wall. It becomes first a brick chimney and then a lined chimney.

When lit at first the fire draws okay, however when it becomes hot it starts to struggle. Often going out completely. It does perform better on coal than wood. It would be better if it could run on wood. The second problem is it can 'blow back' under certain conditions, such as a door being quickly closed or a extractor fan being run in the house.

The first thing I am going to try is sealing the joints between the metal flue sections, starting with the join to the top of the stove. I see screwfix lists pluma flue (66373) but that is only rated to 300C firestop (25153) is rated to 1200C but for ridgid seals. Is either suitable? There is an inspection panel in the round metal flue before the wall. The seal was a felt like substance that has deteriorated, what would it be called?

Thanks

When were the flues last swept? And have they got a bird guard on the
top, as last time I had this problem, the sweep extracted a bin bag full
of nest after the flue had been out of use for the Summer.

IME, if the flue is correctly designed and empty, then no matter how
leaky it is, it will still draw well.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 12/10/2014 13:02, John Williamson wrote:
On 11/10/2014 20:00, wrote:
My mother has a couple of solid fuel stoves in her house. One is only
used infrequently. How important is it to fit a weather guard of some
kind to the pot?

The other is lit most days over the winter. There is a sectional metal
flue that rises from the top of the stove, through two angles, into
the top of the alchove. Where it becomes brick. It goes through two
more angles, accessible through a hatch in the external wall. It
becomes first a brick chimney and then a lined chimney.

When lit at first the fire draws okay, however when it becomes hot it
starts to struggle. Often going out completely. It does perform better
on coal than wood. It would be better if it could run on wood. The
second problem is it can 'blow back' under certain conditions, such as
a door being quickly closed or a extractor fan being run in the house.

The first thing I am going to try is sealing the joints between the
metal flue sections, starting with the join to the top of the stove. I
see screwfix lists pluma flue (66373) but that is only rated to 300C
firestop (25153) is rated to 1200C but for ridgid seals. Is either
suitable? There is an inspection panel in the round metal flue before
the wall. The seal was a felt like substance that has deteriorated,
what would it be called?

Thanks

When were the flues last swept? And have they got a bird guard on the
top, as last time I had this problem, the sweep extracted a bin bag full
of nest after the flue had been out of use for the Summer.

IME, if the flue is correctly designed and empty, then no matter how
leaky it is, it will still draw well.

+1.

In the two (old) houses where I have had woodburners, the drafts have
easily exceeded the modern ventilation requirement.

On Sunday, 12 October 2014 13:02:34 UTC+1, John Williamson wrote:



When were the flues last swept? And have they got a bird guard on the

top, as last time I had this problem, the sweep extracted a bin bag full

of nest after the flue had been out of use for the Summer.



I can not give an exact answer as to when they were last swept but there are clear and seem clean. I know because i examined them with the aid of a torch (lowered down by a string in the case of the chimney).

On Saturday, October 11, 2014 8:00:46 PM UTC+1, wrote:

My mother has a couple of solid fuel stoves in her house. One is only used infrequently. How important is it to fit a weather guard of some kind to the pot?
The other is lit most days over the winter. There is a sectional metal flue that rises from the top of the stove, through two angles, into the top of the alchove. Where it becomes brick. It goes through two more angles, accessible through a hatch in the external wall. It becomes first a brick chimney and then a lined chimney.
When lit at first the fire draws okay, however when it becomes hot it starts to struggle. Often going out completely. It does perform better on coal than wood. It would be better if it could run on wood. The second problem is it can 'blow back' under certain conditions, such as a door being quickly closed or a extractor fan being run in the house.
The first thing I am going to try is sealing the joints between the metal flue sections, starting with the join to the top of the stove. I see screwfix lists pluma flue (66373) but that is only rated to 300C firestop (25153) is rated to 1200C but for ridgid seals. Is either suitable? There is an inspection panel in the round metal flue before the wall. The seal was a felt like substance that has deteriorated, what would it be called?
Thanks

Modern accepted wisdom says its plainly dangerous. OTOH many of us grew up with similarish of setups, and just accepted it got a little smoky sometimes. IOW I dont know what the level of risk is, but these are conditions that will produce CO, and putting that into the house is surely a fool's game.


NT

On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 12:00:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

How important is it to fit a weather guard of some kind to the pot?

Reasonably but stopping birds (normally Jackdaws) nesting in it is
also high up the list.

The other is lit most days over the winter. There is a sectional metal
flue that rises from the top of the stove, through two angles, into the
top of the alchove. Where it becomes brick. It goes through two more
angles, accessible through a hatch in the external wall. It becomes
first a brick chimney and then a lined chimney.

So it's not lined all the way up? Don't like that idea for the flue
gas flow/temperature profile. Presumably the brick section has a
larger cross section than the lined part(s)? the flow rate will drop
and being brick cool the gases, making them denser. I sort of see
this generating "cold plug" of flue gases in that section.

When lit at first the fire draws okay, however when it becomes hot it
starts to struggle. Often going out completely.

Not good, *possibly* caused by the inconsistent dia flue and
construction, as above.

The second problem is it can 'blow back' under certain conditions, such
as a door being quickly closed or a extractor fan being run in the
house.

The rooms with the stoves should have some free air ventilation.
Indeed stoves bigger than, I think, 5 kW *must* have suitable free
air ventilation. IIRC a chimney/flu must still draw when all the
extract fans in the property are on, internal doors open, etc.

The first thing I am going to try is sealing the joints between the
metal flue sections, starting with the join to the top of the stove.

The first thing you should be doing is sorting out the ventilation...

I see screwfix lists pluma flue (66373) but that is only rated to 300C
firestop (25153) is rated to 1200C but for ridgid seals. Is either
suitable?

Personally I'd rather use a fire cement than a silicone. Cement will
allow disassembly and clean up should that ever be required.

There is an inspection panel in the round metal flue before the wall.
The seal was a felt like substance that has deteriorated, what would it
be called?

Flue gasket?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sunday, 12 October 2014 22:53:43 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 12:00:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



How important is it to fit a weather guard of some kind to the pot?



Reasonably but stopping birds (normally Jackdaws) nesting in it is

also high up the list.


That chimney is currently capped by mesh. It does not keep out the weather but has defeated birds up until now.



The other is lit most days over the winter. There is a sectional metal

flue that rises from the top of the stove, through two angles, into the

top of the alchove. Where it becomes brick. It goes through two more

angles, accessible through a hatch in the external wall. It becomes

first a brick chimney and then a lined chimney.



So it's not lined all the way up? Don't like that idea for the flue

gas flow/temperature profile. Presumably the brick section has a

larger cross section than the lined part(s)? the flow rate will drop

and being brick cool the gases, making them denser. I sort of see

this generating "cold plug" of flue gases in that section.



The chimney was extended at one point when a second story was added to that section of the house. So the lined section of the chimney is the top third.. However before it gets that far the gases must go from a metal flue, exposed to the air in the room to the horizontal brick flue and then the bottom of the chimney. Would that cause the same effect?


When lit at first the fire draws okay, however when it becomes hot it

starts to struggle. Often going out completely.



Not good, *possibly* caused by the inconsistent dia flue and

construction, as above.



The second problem is it can 'blow back' under certain conditions, such

as a door being quickly closed or a extractor fan being run in the

house.



The rooms with the stoves should have some free air ventilation.

Indeed stoves bigger than, I think, 5 kW *must* have suitable free

air ventilation. IIRC a chimney/flu must still draw when all the

extract fans in the property are on, internal doors open, etc.


The stoves are in different rooms. The occasional use one is large and has an external vent ending in a small hole in the floor (!) next to the stove's intake.

The daily use one is much smaller.



The first thing I am going to try is sealing the joints between the

metal flue sections, starting with the join to the top of the stove.



The first thing you should be doing is sorting out the ventilation...



The room has a small opening window which she opens when the stove is running as it does perform a bit better with the window open rather than closed. She complains about drafts a lot and I do not think additional vents is something she would agree to. I have toyed with the idea of installing a external vent piping outside air directly into the stove somehow, or even electrically pumping air from the room into the stove but I am not sure if either would be realistic or effective.


I see screwfix lists pluma flue (66373) but that is only rated to 300C

firestop (25153) is rated to 1200C but for ridgid seals. Is either

suitable?



Personally I'd rather use a fire cement than a silicone. Cement will

allow disassembly and clean up should that ever be required.



Given flue and stove seem to be different metals I guess they would expand at different rates? Would cement be too rigid?


There is an inspection panel in the round metal flue before the wall.

The seal was a felt like substance that has deteriorated, what would it

be called?



Flue gasket?

I have tried a quick google search with that term which threw up some rope like seals. This was a thick sheet that lay over the hole in the flue and was trapped at the edges by the (oversized) hatch.

On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 15:51:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

That chimney is currently capped by mesh. It does not keep out the
weather but has defeated birds up until now.

Something to keep the worst out might be useful. Ours has something
similar to this on it:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_kw...ner+pot+hanger

So it's not lined all the way up? Don't like that idea for the
flue
gas flow/temperature profile. Presumably the brick section has a
larger cross section than the lined part(s)? the flow rate will
drop
and being brick cool the gases, making them denser. I sort of see
this generating "cold plug" of flue gases in that section.

The chimney was extended at one point when a second story was added to
that section of the house. So the lined section of the chimney is the
top third.. However before it gets that far the gases must go from a
metal flue, exposed to the air in the room to the horizontal ...

Horizontal, how far? Chimneys and flues are strange beasts when it
come to how they draw (or not) but horizontal is never a good idea
except for very short sections, think not much more than the size of
the chimney/liner.

... brick flue and then the bottom of the chimney. Would that cause the
same effect?

Probably even more so as the gases slow and cool in the horizontal
section. But as I saw chimneys and flues are strange beasts. It also
makes sweeping difficult.

The first thing you should be doing is sorting out the
ventilation...

The room has a small opening window which she opens when the stove is
running as it does perform a bit better with the window open rather than
closed.

Which really does point to inadequate ventilation.

She complains about drafts a lot and I do not think additional vents is
something she would agree to.

You can get free air ventilators that are not supoosed to be drafty.
They have a laberinth in the wall tube to make the path longer and
convuluted.

I have toyed with the idea of installing a external vent piping outside
air directly into the stove somehow, or even electrically pumping air
from the room into the stove but I am not sure if either would be
realistic or effective.

Direct feed probably not that good on a stove not designed for it. I
would need to form of flow control as well or you'd end up with a
blast furnace. B-) IMHO anything to do with a stove has to be
passive an work when power is abscent. No point in having a stove
that can't safely be used with the power off, when are you going to
really want to use it? Yep, when the power is off due to the ice
storm raging outside...
Given flue and stove seem to be different metals I guess they would
expand at different rates? Would cement be too rigid?

Doesn't seem to be a problem on the joint between the top of our cast
iron oil boiler and it's flue pipe.

Flue gasket?

I have tried a quick google search with that term which threw up some
rope like seals. This was a thick sheet that lay over the hole in the
flue and was trapped at the edges by the (oversized) hatch.

It came back with "cut to size" 3 mm thick sheet/matting for me,
along with the rope seals used for glass/doors,

--
Cheers
Dave.