I have in the process of removing my mum's old bath to install a shower
run into an interesting and as yet unresolved conundrum with the waste
pipes. They are grey and approximately the dimensions of modern solvent
weld pipe at 43.7mm (bath) and 36.5mm (sink) respectively.

(ie the old pipes will not fit into modern solvent weld fittings for
43mm and 36mm)

I am sure of the measurements. Are these some old weird Imperial size
since metricated to 43mm and 36mm or has the old pipe swelled with age?

According to this lot the pipe size I have encountered does not exist!

http://www.hendersons.co.uk/Pipework2/page2.html

If Imperial they would be ODs of 1 23/32" and 1 7/16" respectively.

Now for the gotcha - they appear to have push fit connectors on them and
the sink waste takes an insane number (5) of right angle connectors to
get from the wall to the sink. I dare not tweak it in case it is
actually solvent weld, but the connectors on the pipe run look exactly
like modern O ring seal push fit except for being about 4mm bigger!

Anyone recognise this size? I could in theory bridge the old and the new
with a universal compression fitting but as ever space is tight.

My options as I see it are roughly to either find a compatible set of
new fittings and pipe or redo the whole lot. I estimate that the
installation was done in the late 1970's if that narrows the field any.
How long does this stuff last?

BTW thanks to all for the tips on blanking off the supply pipes and
getting the old bath out. I junked the taps in the end.

The old bath turned out to be nearly 10mm thick acrylic with a thin
glass fibre reinforcement on a tubular steel frame with MDF baseboard
and then surrounded by heavy wood subframe screwed into the wall by two
hidden 2" wide stainless steel brackets that made it incredibly rigid.
The latter only became obvious when all the visible fixings were removed
and it still would not budge an inch!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 01/10/14 18:24, Martin Brown wrote:
My options as I see it are roughly to either find a compatible set of
new fittings and pipe or redo the whole lot.

Redo the whole lot frankly.

modern solvent weld goes together like lego, and its not hard when you
have an existing installation to buy the correct parts in advance

And I don't recall plastic pipe and connectors as being bank breaking stuff.

Almost every time I have tried to save by reusing old ****e, I ended up
spending hours and wasting money.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 01/10/2014 18:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/10/14 18:24, Martin Brown wrote:
My options as I see it are roughly to either find a compatible set of
new fittings and pipe or redo the whole lot.

Redo the whole lot frankly.

modern solvent weld goes together like lego, and its not hard when you
have an existing installation to buy the correct parts in advance

That is reassuring. I have never seriously used solvent weld pipe before
as I have generally found push fit easier to work with. In this tight
space though the narrower profile of solvent weld fittings would help
but I am a bit wary of their highly irreversible nature.

Although I am not sure I would do it the same way as the existing
installation which essentially goes

*- wash basin drain
/
/ (long)
*====*
/
*
|
--------*
(very long ie length of bath)

* is a right angled bend fitting

All the others are almost as short a piece of pipe as will fit and the
one marked with "====" is sloping the wrong way for correct waste flow


My proposed solution would be along the lines of
*-
/
/
o----*
/
--------o

o is a 45 degree bend

I suspect everything has perished (based on what the bath seal looked
like) so that the instant anything gets moved or knocked I will have to
redo it all anyway.

Should I also get a new plughole assembly for the sink itself and are
there any likely Imperial metric incompatibilities to watch out for
there ? I'd like to get it all finished on the next visit...

And I don't recall plastic pipe and connectors as being bank breaking
stuff.

It isn't that bit that worries me it is breaking the bit that goes
through the wall and then having to work at height on the outside.

Also the new stuff all seems to be white and it strikes me that black
plastic waste pipe would be a lot more resilient in an exterior position
(I know it says paint exterior waste pipes to protect them).

Almost every time I have tried to save by reusing old ****e, I ended up
spending hours and wasting money.

That is what I am afraid of. Also I suspect that the insane number of
right angle joints in the wash basin pipe indicates some sort of problem
with degrees of freedom of movement leading to having to put many bogus
connectors in just to get the thing installed.

Obviously there was a huge amount more space under the corner of the
bath than there will be under a shower tray platform. I was hoping not
to have to meddle with the existing wash basin and to connect the bath
to the original but it looks like it will be safer to redo it all.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 02/10/14 09:21, Martin Brown wrote:
On 01/10/2014 18:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/10/14 18:24, Martin Brown wrote:
My options as I see it are roughly to either find a compatible set of
new fittings and pipe or redo the whole lot.

Redo the whole lot frankly.

modern solvent weld goes together like lego, and its not hard when you
have an existing installation to buy the correct parts in advance

That is reassuring. I have never seriously used solvent weld pipe before
as I have generally found push fit easier to work with. In this tight
space though the narrower profile of solvent weld fittings would help
but I am a bit wary of their highly irreversible nature.

Although I am not sure I would do it the same way as the existing
installation which essentially goes

*- wash basin drain
/
/ (long)
*====*
/
*
|
--------*
(very long ie length of bath)

* is a right angled bend fitting

All the others are almost as short a piece of pipe as will fit and the
one marked with "====" is sloping the wrong way for correct waste flow


My proposed solution would be along the lines of
*-
/
/
o----*
/
--------o

o is a 45 degree bend

I suspect everything has perished (based on what the bath seal looked
like) so that the instant anything gets moved or knocked I will have to
redo it all anyway.

Should I also get a new plughole assembly for the sink itself and are
there any likely Imperial metric incompatibilities to watch out for
there ? I'd like to get it all finished on the next visit...

And I don't recall plastic pipe and connectors as being bank breaking
stuff.

It isn't that bit that worries me it is breaking the bit that goes
through the wall and then having to work at height on the outside.

Also the new stuff all seems to be white and it strikes me that black
plastic waste pipe would be a lot more resilient in an exterior position
(I know it says paint exterior waste pipes to protect them).

Almost every time I have tried to save by reusing old ****e, I ended up
spending hours and wasting money.

That is what I am afraid of. Also I suspect that the insane number of
right angle joints in the wash basin pipe indicates some sort of problem
with degrees of freedom of movement leading to having to put many bogus
connectors in just to get the thing installed.

Obviously there was a huge amount more space under the corner of the
bath than there will be under a shower tray platform. I was hoping not
to have to meddle with the existing wash basin and to connect the bath
to the original but it looks like it will be safer to redo it all.

just get all new everything otherwise its endless buggering about

solvent weld with gooey solvent gives you about ten seconds to get it
all lined up, so assemble dry first, and work out which bits you do
first and how to get the last bit on place


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 19:27:17 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

solvent weld with gooey solvent gives you about ten seconds to get it
all lined up, so assemble dry first, and work out which bits you do
first and how to get the last bit on place

Or make up a section as required and join it into the system with a
universal connector(s)(*) so it can be removed later to unblock it.

(*) Pushfit would be nicer but I can never remember the pipe
sizes/compatibilties between solvent weld/pushfit.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 06/10/2014 13:48, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 19:27:17 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

solvent weld with gooey solvent gives you about ten seconds to get it
all lined up, so assemble dry first, and work out which bits you do
first and how to get the last bit on place

Or make up a section as required and join it into the system with a
universal connector(s)(*) so it can be removed later to unblock it.

(*) Pushfit would be nicer but I can never remember the pipe
sizes/compatibilties between solvent weld/pushfit.

Thanks for the pointers guys!

I managed to get that bit done and to my immense surprise it didn't
leak! I used pushfit in the end as the access was too fiddly to risk
having to get it all together at 10s per joint with solvent weld.

The hard bit was removing the outer parts which included push fit
components cemented (actually more like rice grain concreted) into the
outer wall and at height. Incidentally Aldi has its last few 3 stage
4.7m ladders on offer and it will just fit in a decent sized car.

The original was definitely slightly larger than modern solvent weld
pipe but with push fit fittings on it. I will scrape the paint off them
and try to find any identifying marks when I have time to spare.

Next weekend is the truly scary bit of attaching the main waste to the
shower tray and bedding it in cement mortar on the 18mm marine ply.
Any practical tips on the best way to do it with least mess?

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 02/10/2014 09:21, Martin Brown wrote:
On 01/10/2014 18:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/10/14 18:24, Martin Brown wrote:
My options as I see it are roughly to either find a compatible set of
new fittings and pipe or redo the whole lot.

Redo the whole lot frankly.

modern solvent weld goes together like lego, and its not hard when you
have an existing installation to buy the correct parts in advance

That is reassuring. I have never seriously used solvent weld pipe before
as I have generally found push fit easier to work with. In this tight
space though the narrower profile of solvent weld fittings would help
but I am a bit wary of their highly irreversible nature.

Although I am not sure I would do it the same way as the existing
installation which essentially goes

*- wash basin drain
/
/ (long)
*====*
/
*
|
--------*
(very long ie length of bath)

* is a right angled bend fitting

All the others are almost as short a piece of pipe as will fit and the
one marked with "====" is sloping the wrong way for correct waste flow


My proposed solution would be along the lines of
*-
/
/
o----*
/
--------o

o is a 45 degree bend

I suspect everything has perished (based on what the bath seal looked
like) so that the instant anything gets moved or knocked I will have to
redo it all anyway.

Should I also get a new plughole assembly for the sink itself and are
there any likely Imperial metric incompatibilities to watch out for
there ? I'd like to get it all finished on the next visit...

And I don't recall plastic pipe and connectors as being bank breaking
stuff.

It isn't that bit that worries me it is breaking the bit that goes
through the wall and then having to work at height on the outside.

Also the new stuff all seems to be white and it strikes me that black
plastic waste pipe would be a lot more resilient in an exterior position
(I know it says paint exterior waste pipes to protect them).

Almost every time I have tried to save by reusing old ****e, I ended up
spending hours and wasting money.

That is what I am afraid of. Also I suspect that the insane number of
right angle joints in the wash basin pipe indicates some sort of problem
with degrees of freedom of movement leading to having to put many bogus
connectors in just to get the thing installed.

Obviously there was a huge amount more space under the corner of the
bath than there will be under a shower tray platform. I was hoping not
to have to meddle with the existing wash basin and to connect the bath
to the original but it looks like it will be safer to redo it all.

I found flexible waste a boon in one particularly awkward place. Such as
HepFlex waste:

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/125.asp

You can't leave it unsupported as it sags, but it is tough and, IMHO,
easy to use. The solvent weld of the spigots is easy as you do it
wherever is convenient rather than in situ.

Seems expensive - can't remember it being that much...

--
Rod

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
I have in the process of removing my mum's old bath to install a shower run
into an interesting and as yet unresolved conundrum with the waste pipes.
They are grey and approximately the dimensions of modern solvent weld pipe
at 43.7mm (bath) and 36.5mm (sink) respectively.

(ie the old pipes will not fit into modern solvent weld fittings for 43mm
and 36mm)

I am sure of the measurements. Are these some old weird Imperial size
since metricated to 43mm and 36mm or has the old pipe swelled with age?

According to this lot the pipe size I have encountered does not exist!

http://www.hendersons.co.uk/Pipework2/page2.html

If Imperial they would be ODs of 1 23/32" and 1 7/16" respectively.

Now for the gotcha - they appear to have push fit connectors on them and
the sink waste takes an insane number (5) of right angle connectors to get
from the wall to the sink. I dare not tweak it in case it is actually
solvent weld, but the connectors on the pipe run look exactly like modern
O ring seal push fit except for being about 4mm bigger!

Anyone recognise this size? I could in theory bridge the old and the new
with a universal compression fitting but as ever space is tight.

My options as I see it are roughly to either find a compatible set of new
fittings and pipe or redo the whole lot. I estimate that the installation
was done in the late 1970's if that narrows the field any. How long does
this stuff last?

BTW thanks to all for the tips on blanking off the supply pipes and
getting the old bath out. I junked the taps in the end.

The old bath turned out to be nearly 10mm thick acrylic with a thin glass
fibre reinforcement on a tubular steel frame with MDF baseboard and then
surrounded by heavy wood subframe screwed into the wall by two hidden 2"
wide stainless steel brackets that made it incredibly rigid. The latter
only became obvious when all the visible fixings were removed and it still
would not budge an inch!

Waste pipe sizes vary a lot between manufacturers and often aren't
interchangable.
There used to be push fittings that had an O ring seal too, you never see
them now.
They often leak if messed about with.

You'll be lucky to find something that matches old systems IME
The one get out is to use the compression fitting(s).

You can get mucked about even with the glue.
Some pipe is made of PVC some is polythene and some is ABS.
Not all glues work with all plastics.