Hello,

Has anyone used a radio controlled helicopter with a camera and if so,
would they be any good for checking for tiles missing off the roof or
moss in the gutter for people like me, who are not brave enough to
climb a ladder that high? Or is it difficult to get the camera
pointing at what you want to look at? Some reviews suggest that
because they are so small and light, they crash when there is a gust
of wind; is that true?

Thanks in advance,
Stephen.

Stephen wrote:

Has anyone used a radio controlled helicopter with a camera and if so,
would they be any good for checking for tiles missing off the roof or
moss in the gutter for people like me, who are not brave enough to
climb a ladder that high? Or is it difficult to get the camera
pointing at what you want to look at? Some reviews suggest that
because they are so small and light, they crash when there is a gust
of wind; is that true?

You'd be better off with a quadcopter rather than a helicopter, much
easier to fly and if you get one with GPS it'll "hold station" against
the wind with no input from the pilot (within the limits of GPS resolution).

On 27/07/2014 08:43, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

Has anyone used a radio controlled helicopter with a camera and if so,
would they be any good for checking for tiles missing off the roof or
moss in the gutter for people like me, who are not brave enough to
climb a ladder that high? Or is it difficult to get the camera
pointing at what you want to look at? Some reviews suggest that
because they are so small and light, they crash when there is a gust
of wind; is that true?

Thanks in advance,
Stephen.



Binoculars to look at the tiles.

A webcam taped to a stick to look in the gutters.

A lot cheaper.

Not as much fun as getting a quadrocopter though.

On 27/07/2014 09:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Stephen wrote:

Has anyone used a radio controlled helicopter with a camera and if so,
would they be any good for checking for tiles missing off the roof or
moss in the gutter for people like me, who are not brave enough to
climb a ladder that high? Or is it difficult to get the camera
pointing at what you want to look at? Some reviews suggest that
because they are so small and light, they crash when there is a gust
of wind; is that true?

You'd be better off with a quadcopter rather than a helicopter, much
easier to fly and if you get one with GPS it'll "hold station" against
the wind with no input from the pilot (within the limits of GPS
resolution).


The hexcopter they were using to track bees on BBC's Hive Alive looked
fun and gave broadcast quality images.

--
Colin Bignell

/The hexcopter they were using to track bees on BBC's Hive Alive looked
fun and gave broadcast quality images.

--
Colin Bignell/q

Fun indeed, and more expensive than paying a man to go and look....

Jim K

"Nightjar \"cpb\""@ insert my surname here wrote:

The hexcopter they were using to track bees on BBC's Hive Alive looked
fun and gave broadcast quality images.

You often get a nasty shimmering effect when they use them, don't know
if it's from the blade shadows passing over the camera, or just vibration.

On 27/07/2014 11:13, Andy Burns wrote:

You often get a nasty shimmering effect when they use them, don't know
if it's from the blade shadows passing over the camera, or just vibration.

It's from the vibration and is called the 'jello effect':
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jello_effect

--
F

Istr the jello effect is down to the processor and chip combination. It's visible with certain digital slrs recording video though the latest slrs seem to have better control of it.

F wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

You often get a nasty shimmering effect when they use them, don't know
if it's from the blade shadows passing over the camera, or just vibration.

It's from the vibration and is called the 'jello effect':
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jello_effect

Maybe ... I am aware of rolling-shutter effect and how it makes moving
objects look when nearly synced to framerate, but I was thinking of the
slow lift-off/fly-by shots of otherwise static objects ... might be the
same effect but due to vibration of the whole 'copter rather than the
object ...

Yes, but at what cost? I think you really need to chat up a local aero
modeller group. Round here at the bottom of the road they fly some medium
sized ones and seem pretty good at it on quite blustery days. If its just a
one off a guy might use his ofor a bit of a consideration on a nice calm
day.

Brian

--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as
Blind user.
"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 27/07/2014 09:18, Andy Burns wrote:
Stephen wrote:

Has anyone used a radio controlled helicopter with a camera and if so,
would they be any good for checking for tiles missing off the roof or
moss in the gutter for people like me, who are not brave enough to
climb a ladder that high? Or is it difficult to get the camera
pointing at what you want to look at? Some reviews suggest that
because they are so small and light, they crash when there is a gust
of wind; is that true?

You'd be better off with a quadcopter rather than a helicopter, much
easier to fly and if you get one with GPS it'll "hold station" against
the wind with no input from the pilot (within the limits of GPS
resolution).


The hexcopter they were using to track bees on BBC's Hive Alive looked fun
and gave broadcast quality images.

--
Colin Bignell

Ah but it might well be you could hire yourself out if you had one for all
sorts of uses. Not to put too fine a point on some of them of course.
Brian

--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as
Blind user.
"JimK" wrote in message
...
/The hexcopter they were using to track bees on BBC's Hive Alive looked
fun and gave broadcast quality images.

--
Colin Bignell/q

Fun indeed, and more expensive than paying a man to go and look....

Jim K

Its a kind of strobe effect according to a friend of mine. Depends on the
lighting.
Brian

--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as
Blind user.
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Nightjar \"cpb\""@ insert my surname here wrote:

The hexcopter they were using to track bees on BBC's Hive Alive looked
fun and gave broadcast quality images.

You often get a nasty shimmering effect when they use them, don't know if
it's from the blade shadows passing over the camera, or just vibration.

OK what about a balloon or a kite then?
Brian

--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as
Blind user.
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
F wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

You often get a nasty shimmering effect when they use them, don't know
if it's from the blade shadows passing over the camera, or just
vibration.

It's from the vibration and is called the 'jello effect':
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jello_effect

Maybe ... I am aware of rolling-shutter effect and how it makes moving
objects look when nearly synced to framerate, but I was thinking of the
slow lift-off/fly-by shots of otherwise static objects ... might be the
same effect but due to vibration of the whole 'copter rather than the
object ...

Brian Gaff wrote:

If its just a one off a guy might use his ofor a bit of a
consideration on a nice calm day.

Technically you need a pilot's licence (of some description) to use a
model 'copter for any form of remuneration ...

/petercroslandmode

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Has anyone used a radio controlled helicopter with a camera and if so,
would they be any good for checking for tiles missing off the roof or
moss in the gutter for people like me, who are not brave enough to
climb a ladder that high? Or is it difficult to get the camera
pointing at what you want to look at? Some reviews suggest that
because they are so small and light, they crash when there is a gust
of wind; is that true?

I'll say what no one else seems to have mentioned.

If there are broken tiles, and / or moss in the gutter, then what do you
propose?

Wasting money on a child's toy and camera setup like this is just that - a
waste...if you want to buy the toy to play with, then buy one, but don't
waste money that could be put to better use.
You'll probably find that your local press has small ads from people who do
jobs like this all the time - 'gutters cleaned £15 per elevation' etc, ring
one of these to clean the gutters and ask him to check for broken roof tiles
while he's up there, or better still loan him your camera to take a few
shots of each roof elevation

Phil L wrote:

"Stephen" wrote:

Has anyone used a radio controlled helicopter with a camera and if so,
would they be any good for checking for tiles missing off the roof or
moss in the gutter for people like me, who are not brave enough to
climb a ladder that high?

I'll say what no one else seems to have mentioned.

I'm sure most thought about it, but it does mean the O/P sees for
himself whether any work is required not, rather than taking someone
else's word for it (who has a vested interest in drumming-up business)
knowing the O/P can't see if any work is required or not.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Phil L wrote:

"Stephen" wrote:

Has anyone used a radio controlled helicopter with a camera and if so,
would they be any good for checking for tiles missing off the roof or
moss in the gutter for people like me, who are not brave enough to
climb a ladder that high?

I'll say what no one else seems to have mentioned.

I'm sure most thought about it, but it does mean the O/P sees for himself
whether any work is required not, rather than taking someone else's word
for it (who has a vested interest in drumming-up business) knowing the O/P
can't see if any work is required or not.

He can see for himself when the bloke who cleans the gutters shows him the
pictures of his roof.
This way he's paid out a lot less money, had his gutters cleaned and still
ended up with photos, plus he's not left with a broken helicopter and camera
to dispose of

On 27/07/2014 16:36, wrote:
Istr the jello effect is down to the processor and chip combination. It's visible with certain digital slrs recording video though the latest slrs seem to have better control of it.

As I understand it, it's caused by the scan method used to get the data
off the image chip. If the imaging chip has a full frame buffer, then
the picture doesn't show the effect, but if the buffer is only for a
single line, then it does.

Guess which one costs more to do? Guess where it's easiest to save money
on the design?
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 27/07/2014 17:28, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:

If its just a one off a guy might use his ofor a bit of a
consideration on a nice calm day.

Technically you need a pilot's licence (of some description) to use a
model 'copter for any form of remuneration ...

/petercroslandmode

As a Maplin store boss found out when he put footage from one of their
camera carrying quadcopters up on the Youtube.

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-...-civil-7125987

One of the copters in question is currently sitting in my suitcase for
buzzing round hotel rooms. (It's a gag about how big the rooms I usually
get aren't. "Big enough to fly a helicopter", that is.)

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 27/07/2014 17:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes, but at what cost?

Quite high I should think. The ones the BBC use have a gyro stabilised
camera and need two people to operate - one a licensed pilot and the
other the camera operator. Apparently, getting a good picture is more
than the pilot alone can do on a blustery day.


--
Colin Bignell

On 27/07/2014 17:18, Brian Gaff wrote:
OK what about a balloon or a kite then?
Brian

Might be difficult to get the kite to swoop over the roof as you want.
Mind, they are partial to bits of chicken so throwing some onto the roof
might work.

--
Rod

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 19:19:26 +0100, polygonum
wrote:

On 27/07/2014 17:18, Brian Gaff wrote:
OK what about a balloon or a kite then?
Brian

Might be difficult to get the kite to swoop over the roof as you want.
Mind, they are partial to bits of chicken so throwing some onto the roof
might work.

LOL. Nice one!

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 17:56:18 +0100, "Phil L"
wrote:


"Andy Burns" wrote in message
news:MK2dnbYL1tv3s0jOnZ2dnUVZ8n6dnZ2d@brightview. co.uk...
Phil L wrote:

"Stephen" wrote:

Has anyone used a radio controlled helicopter with a camera and if so,
would they be any good for checking for tiles missing off the roof or
moss in the gutter for people like me, who are not brave enough to
climb a ladder that high?

I'll say what no one else seems to have mentioned.

I'm sure most thought about it, but it does mean the O/P sees for himself
whether any work is required not, rather than taking someone else's word
for it (who has a vested interest in drumming-up business) knowing the O/P
can't see if any work is required or not.

He can see for himself when the bloke who cleans the gutters shows him the
pictures of his roof.
This way he's paid out a lot less money, had his gutters cleaned and still
ended up with photos, plus he's not left with a broken helicopter and camera
to dispose of


Why not just lash a couple of bamboo sticks from your local garden
centre together, secure your cam/video to one end and guide the sticks
in position from the ground? You can set a video to record before you
hold it up or for stills, just select the shutter delay feature.

On Sunday, July 27, 2014 5:56:18 PM UTC+1, Phil L wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message

o.uk...

Phil L wrote:



"Stephen" wrote:



Has anyone used a radio controlled helicopter with a camera and if so,

would they be any good for checking for tiles missing off the roof or

moss in the gutter for people like me, who are not brave enough to

climb a ladder that high?



I'll say what no one else seems to have mentioned.



I'm sure most thought about it, but it does mean the O/P sees for himself

whether any work is required not, rather than taking someone else's word

for it (who has a vested interest in drumming-up business) knowing the O/P

can't see if any work is required or not.



He can see for himself when the bloke who cleans the gutters shows him the

pictures of his roof.

This way he's paid out a lot less money, had his gutters cleaned and still

ended up with photos, plus he's not left with a broken helicopter and camera

to dispose of

Yes but he hasn't got a toy to play with when he is finished. Since when has tool buying been a rational decision to a lot of people on this group ? Besides, who knows what other uses he might find for it.

In article , Cursitor Doom wrote:
Why not just lash a couple of bamboo sticks from your local garden
centre together, secure your cam/video to one end and guide the sticks
in position from the ground? You can set a video to record before you
hold it up or for stills, just select the shutter delay feature.

If the gutters are within reach of that, he could use something like
http://www.twowests.co.uk/product/ga...r-cleaning-set
http://www.fiskars.eu/Gardening-Yard...Gutter-Cleaner

Handle would be stiffer than a couple of bamboo sticks, and he could
clean the gutter with it himself....

(http://www.rewci.com/vertalok-gutter...ng-system.html even comes with
a camera mount, but is American.)

But for a potentially fun toy which will give you video good enough to see
"are there whole tiles missing or not", there are quite cheap options these
days:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hubsan-H107C...bsan+hd+camera
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Version-Syma...1&keywords=x5c
http://bestquadcopterkits.com/quadcopter-camera/

Searching YouTube will show sample videos.

fred wrote:

Since when has tool buying been a rational decision to a lot of
people on this group ?

I'd better hide the order confirmation for this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331161461034

Having talked myself up from an el-cheapo, to a crossline one, to
combined crossline with dots all round. Hey, at least I resisted
forking out for a green rotary one!

Alan Braggins wrote:

he could use something like
[gardena-gutter-cleaning-set]

But for a potentially fun toy

ISTR Roomba making a gutter cleaning robot, bet it's as hopeless as the
carpet cleaning ones ..

http://www.irobot.com/us/learn/home/looj.aspx

On 27/07/2014 17:16, Brian Gaff wrote:
Ah but it might well be you could hire yourself out if you had one for all
sorts of uses. Not to put too fine a point on some of them of course.

If you use a model helicopter for survey work, you need a CAA licence,
which costs a couple of grand. Theoretically, even if you just survey
your own roof you probably need that, but certainly if you do it
commercially.

See http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393.pdf This documents all UK air law.. The type of helicopter you want to fly would fall under "Small Unmanned Surveillance Aircraft" and as such is exempt from the vast majority of the Air Navigation Order. The articles that do apply a 138, 166, 167 and 232

Article 138 states that you must not recklessly or negligently cause or permit an aircraft to endanger any person or property.

Article 166 refers to small unmanned aircraft and covers general safety requirements of flying such a craft (see the link above to read them all). They mainly cover the restrictions on height, flying over crowds of people, flying near airfields or other restricted airspace, that sort of thing.

Article 167 is concerned with small unmanned surveillance aircraft (pay attention to Article 167 paragraph 5)

167 (1) The person in charge of a small unmanned surveillance aircraft must not fly the aircraft in any of the circumstances described in paragraph 2 except in accordance with a permission issued by the CAA. (This permission is the license)

167 (2)
The circumstances referred to in paragraph (1) a
(a) over or within 150 metres of any congested area;
(b) over or within 150 metres of an organised open-air assembly of more than 1,000
persons;
(c) within 50 metres of any vessel, vehicle or structure which is not under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft; or
(d) subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), within 50 metres of any person.

167 (3)
Subject to paragraph (4), during take-off or landing, a small unmanned surveillance aircraft must not be flown within 30 metres of any person.

167 (4)
Paragraphs (2)(d) and (3) do not apply to the person in charge of the small unmanned surveillance aircraft or a person under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft.

167 (5)
In this article 'a small unmanned surveillance aircraft' means a small unmanned aircraft which is equipped to undertake any form of surveillance or data acquisition.


Jim K

On Sunday, July 27, 2014 4:36:43 PM UTC+1, wrote:
Istr the jello effect is down to the processor and chip combination. It's visible with certain digital slrs recording video though the latest slrs seem to have better control of it.

Are the latest SLRs SLRs? IE, are they single lens reflex (I never was sure prescisly what reflex meant, but I suspect it's not present in the latest SLRs. Should thay more properly be called TTLs? Then again, perhaps they are reflex.

wrote:

Are the latest SLRs SLRs?

Many have become mirrorless now, therefore no "reflexions", DSLM is the
new DSLR (or even MILC).

JimK wrote:

The circumstances referred to in paragraph (1) a

(c) within 50 metres of any vessel, vehicle or structure which is not under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft; or


So you can't fly within 50 metres of anyone else's house or car, even
when taking off or landing. That would seem to prohibit flying in most
urban streets.

Mike

On 01/08/2014 12:39, Mike Humphrey wrote:
JimK wrote:

The circumstances referred to in paragraph (1) a

(c) within 50 metres of any vessel, vehicle or structure which is not under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft; or


So you can't fly within 50 metres of anyone else's house or car, even
when taking off or landing. That would seem to prohibit flying in most
urban streets.


It would also seem to preclude the advertised use of many of the smaller
ones as indoor toys.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Fri, 01 Aug 2014 06:39:44 -0500, Mike Humphrey
wrote:

JimK wrote:
The circumstances referred to in paragraph (1) a
(c) within 50 metres of any vessel, vehicle or structure which is not under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft; or

So you can't fly within 50 metres of anyone else's house or car, even
when taking off or landing. That would seem to prohibit flying in most
urban streets.

Mike

That's correct, see the BMFA's page on FPV flying he

http://www.bmfa.org/Info/ModelFlying...6/Default.aspx

- Mike