Home Security Monitoring costs
 

I've just had a fairly gentle but persuasive visit from a guy selling a security system. At least his claim is that he is giving me the security system as an local advert ("your address was chosen at random"!!!) and selling me the monitoring service.

It is an all singing/dancing system I am assured - wireless, fob operation, intruder and fire sensing and emergency button for illness; a "Grade 2 Security System". I also get free maintenance, etc.

The problem I face is that the monitoring charge is high (£4.5k for 10 years) and I suspect that because it is being paid through the security company rather than directly to the monitoring company, the real cost of the electronics is in this charge and that it is not 'free' at all. The fact that he totted up the number of sensors required does rather indicate this.

Anyone got any idea how much such monitoring costs? Or are there variables that I'm not aware of that make this cost not easily assessed?

Thanks
Rob

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

In article ,
robgraham writes:
I've just had a fairly gentle but persuasive visit from a guy selling a security system. At least his claim is that he is giving me the security system as an local advert ("your address was chosen at random"!!!) and selling me the monitoring service.
It is an all singing/dancing system I am assured - wireless, fob operation, intruder and fire sensing and emergency button for illness; a "Grade 2 Security System". I also get free maintenance, etc.
The problem I face is that the monitoring charge is high (£4.5k for 10 years) and I suspect that because it is being paid through the security company rather than directly to the monitoring company, the real cost of the electronics is in this charge and that it is not 'free' at all. The fact that he totted up the number of sensors required does rather indicate this.
Anyone got any idea how much such monitoring costs? Or are there variables that I'm not aware of that make this cost not easily assessed?

Well, you should almost never buy from a door-to-door salesman.
If you want such an alarm service, phone around some local installers.
At least do this before accepting the door-to-door price. Tell them
you were interested because you had a doot-to-door salesman, and they
will tell you what the downsides of that particular contract are.

The usual trick with these systems is the maintenance charge is high,
and some barrier is put up to make leaving it difficult or expensive,
such as the alarm is theirs and you have to pay for them to remove it.

You can get a system monitored yourself, but you won't be able to get
a police emergency callout unless the system is is on a maintenance
contract by a NACOSS (or similar) registered alarm company. OTOH,
police emergency callout is pretty useless - thieves nowadays know
they've got 60-90 seconds inside the property, and are long gone
before the monitoring station even gets a call in to the police.
Monitoring station may be useful to let you know something has
happened, and either the monitoring station or your maintainer might
offer a service to get the building made secure again if you are
away and unable to attend (if your insurer doesn't).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

On 04/07/2014 17:18 robgraham wrote:

I've just had a fairly gentle but persuasive visit from a guy selling a security system. At least his claim is that he is giving me the security system as an local advert ("your address was chosen at random"!!!) and selling me the monitoring service.

Anyone who said that to me would be told to go away immediately! All the
signs of a con in the making.

Was he having a look round with a return visit in mind? Perhaps when you
were out...?

It is an all singing/dancing system I am assured - wireless, fob operation, intruder and fire sensing and emergency button for illness; a "Grade 2 Security System". I also get free maintenance, etc.

Nothing comes 'free'. It's all included in the cost.

The problem I face is that the monitoring charge is high (£4.5k for 10 years) and I suspect that because it is being paid through the security company rather than directly to the monitoring company, the real cost of the electronics is in this charge and that it is not 'free' at all. The fact that he totted up the number of sensors required does rather indicate this.

Anyone got any idea how much such monitoring costs? Or are there variables that I'm not aware of that make this cost not easily assessed?

A neighbour has just signed up to an ADT system. £20pm. Ouch!

--
F

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

robgraham wrote:

I've just had a fairly gentle but persuasive visit from a guy selling a
security system. At least his claim is that he is giving me the security
system as an local advert ("your address was chosen at random"!!!) and
selling me the monitoring service.

It is an all singing/dancing system I am assured - wireless, fob
operation, intruder and fire sensing and emergency button for illness; a
"Grade 2 Security System". I also get free maintenance, etc.

The problem I face is that the monitoring charge is high (£4.5k for 10
years) and I suspect that because it is being paid through the security
company rather than directly to the monitoring company, the real cost of
the electronics is in this charge and that it is not 'free' at all. The
fact that he totted up the number of sensors required does rather indicate
this.

This sounds quite a lot like the systems sold by "SAS Fire & Security
Systems Ltd" until they were shut down by Trading Standards etc, though they
were pushy in the extreme and preyed on the elderly; I know, my mum was one.

She paid around £5k up-front, and has bu**er all to show for it because when
SAS went bust there was no redress. Some other companies did contact us
wanting to take over the monitoring - one wonders how they got hold of SAS's
customer lists - but they wanted to be paid to do that, and mum had already
paid...

In my view the system she was sold did not meet her needs, such as they
were, not least because she already has a local-authority-provided
red-button call system, for help if eg she falls. I have never managed to
get her to tell me why she thought she needed a security system as well as
the emergency call system, far less why she decided on the precise features
she ended up with. (Her 'security' system has no external bell box or
sounder, and even the dummy one that the installer did provide never
actually got attached to any wall. The fobs are a bad idea for someone
prone to putting things down and losing them, especially because an intruder
could make-off with one. She also couldn't read the legends on the fob
buttons.)

One of SAS's 'pressure selling' techniques was to install an alarm usually
no later than one or two days after someone agreed the contract. This means
that the 14-day (or whatever) cooling-off period you should have for a
doorstep sale is circumvented, making it much more difficult for less-aged
rellies to get a system removed and get the money back. In my mum's case,
despite the fact we talk every night, somehow she 'forgot' to tell me she'd
had this thing installed; I found out only when I was next in her house.

I'd suggest that if you really need an alarm system you should ask around in
your neighbourhood to find some local companies that neighbours trust,
discuss your needs with them and get some comparitive quotes.

As far as I know typical monitoring costs are approx £20-30/ month. If you
pay for umpteen years' worth of service up-front, expect to regret it later
on.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

In article , F
news@nowhere wrote:
On 04/07/2014 17:18 robgraham wrote:

I've just had a fairly gentle but persuasive visit from a guy selling a
security system. At least his claim is that he is giving me the
security system as an local advert ("your address was chosen at
random"!!!) and selling me the monitoring service.

Anyone who said that to me would be told to go away immediately! All the
signs of a con in the making.

Was he having a look round with a return visit in mind? Perhaps when you
were out...?

It is an all singing/dancing system I am assured - wireless, fob
operation, intruder and fire sensing and emergency button for illness;
a "Grade 2 Security System". I also get free maintenance, etc.

Nothing comes 'free'. It's all included in the cost.

My annual alarm service check is £100.

The problem I face is that the monitoring charge is high (£4.5k for 10
years) and I suspect that because it is being paid through the security
company rather than directly to the monitoring company, the real cost
of the electronics is in this charge and that it is not 'free' at all.
The fact that he totted up the number of sensors required does rather
indicate this.

Anyone got any idea how much such monitoring costs? Or are there
variables that I'm not aware of that make this cost not easily assessed?

A neighbour has just signed up to an ADT system. £20pm. Ouch!

My alarm rings my mobile phone.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

On 04/07/2014 18:49, F wrote:
On 04/07/2014 17:18 robgraham wrote:

I've just had a fairly gentle but persuasive visit from a guy selling
a security system. At least his claim is that he is giving me the
security system as an local advert ("your address was chosen at
random"!!!) and selling me the monitoring service.

Anyone who said that to me would be told to go away immediately! All the
signs of a con in the making.

Was he having a look round with a return visit in mind? Perhaps when you
were out...?

It is an all singing/dancing system I am assured - wireless, fob
operation, intruder and fire sensing and emergency button for illness;
a "Grade 2 Security System". I also get free maintenance, etc.

Nothing comes 'free'. It's all included in the cost.

The problem I face is that the monitoring charge is high (£4.5k for 10
years) and I suspect that because it is being paid through the
security company rather than directly to the monitoring company, the
real cost of the electronics is in this charge and that it is not
'free' at all. The fact that he totted up the number of sensors
required does rather indicate this.

Anyone got any idea how much such monitoring costs? Or are there
variables that I'm not aware of that make this cost not easily assessed?

A neighbour has just signed up to an ADT system. £20pm. Ouch!

Yea but that is cheaper than op's charge which equates to £37.50 a month.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"robgraham" wrote in message
...
I've just had a fairly gentle but persuasive visit from a guy selling a
security system. At least his claim is that he is giving me the security
system as an local advert ("your address was chosen at random"!!!) and
selling me the monitoring service.

It is an all singing/dancing system I am assured - wireless, fob operation,
intruder and fire sensing and emergency button for illness; a "Grade 2
Security System". I also get free maintenance, etc.

The problem I face is that the monitoring charge is high (£4.5k for 10
years) and I suspect that because it is being paid through the security
company rather than directly to the monitoring company, the real cost of the
electronics is in this charge and that it is not 'free' at all. The fact
that he totted up the number of sensors required does rather indicate this.

Anyone got any idea how much such monitoring costs? Or are there variables
that I'm not aware of that make this cost not easily assessed?

Thanks
Rob

Load of bollix.
Is there a lot of crime/burglary in your area is the first consideration.
How does a monitoring system help?
What happens if the firm goes tits up?
You can install your own security DIY.

If you are really worried, get yourself a large dog.
Alarm system, attack system and excerise system in one package.
Cheap to run, can be self replicating, needs no maintenence, can come free
of charge, amuses and excercises the kids.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

On 04/07/2014 19:36 Bob H wrote:

A neighbour has just signed up to an ADT system. £20pm. Ouch!

Yea but that is cheaper than op's charge which equates to £37.50 a month.

Yes, I too did the maths. Even £20 pm is expensive and you don't get
much for your cash. ADT will phone a friend.

--
F

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

Many thanks for all your replies, guys. I was never going to pay on the dot and fortunately my wife went out as the guy arrived and didn't get back till late so I was able to use her absence as an excuse to put any decision off.

I was tempted until the figures started to appear and then realised that the random address thing is so that neighbours don't talk about it.

The story about SAS was interesting as this company has only been going a year and the potential of it disappearing without too much notice in the near future is something that I did think about.

The company is UK Protect Ltd from Paisley

Again thanks
Rob

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"harryagain" wrote in message
...


If you are really worried, get yourself a large dog.
Alarm system, attack system and excerise system in one package.
Cheap to run, can be self replicating, needs no maintenence, can come free of charge,
amuses and excercises the kids.

Presumably you're referring to the advanced model ?

The one that lets itself in and out, takes itself for walks
and feeds itself whenever you go on holiday, And is also
totally resistant to the charms of tranquilliser doped lumps
of raw steak pushed through the letterbox.


michael adams

....

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 19:35:53 +0100, charles wrote:

My alarm rings my mobile phone.

Then what do you do? Even if your only 5 mins away that's plenty of
time for the place to be turned over and DVD/Telly, phones (mobiles
or landline), any other smallish easyly portable stuff to grabbed,
laptops, tablets, printers, ...

If you are further away phone plod won't help as you can't say that
there are intruders present. Phone a friend? Hum, a disturbed
intruder is just as likely to go through some body rather than round
when making their get away.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

On Fri, 4 Jul 2014 20:26:08 +0100, harryagain wrote:

How does a monitoring system help?

These days plod will not attend to a sounding alarm system in a
timely manner unless there is absolute evidence of intruders present.
Be that a witness seeing them or multiple sensors being triggered in
an order that indicates an intruder, possibly along with the
monitoring operator listening in to to any activity at the property.

What happens if the firm goes tits up?

It's a lucrative market, another company would take on the customers
if not the whole company.

You can install your own security DIY.

But not get a response from plod unless some one can say the
intruders (if they exist and it's not a spider) are still present.
--
Cheers
Dave.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"robgraham" wrote in message
...
I've just had a fairly gentle but persuasive visit from a guy selling a
security system. At least his claim is that he is giving me the security
system as an local advert ("your address was chosen at random"!!!) and
selling me the monitoring service.

It is an all singing/dancing system I am assured - wireless, fob
operation, intruder and fire sensing and emergency button for illness; a
"Grade 2 Security System". I also get free maintenance, etc.

The problem I face is that the monitoring charge is high (£4.5k for 10
years) and I suspect that because it is being paid through the security
company rather than directly to the monitoring company, the real cost of
the electronics is in this charge and that it is not 'free' at all. The
fact that he totted up the number of sensors required does rather indicate
this.

Anyone got any idea how much such monitoring costs? Or are there
variables that I'm not aware of that make this cost not easily assessed?

Thanks
Rob

Load of bollix.
Is there a lot of crime/burglary in your area is the first consideration.
How does a monitoring system help?
What happens if the firm goes tits up?
You can install your own security DIY.

If you are really worried, get yourself a large dog.
Alarm system, attack system and excerise system in one package.
Cheap to run,

Not that cheap actually.

can be self replicating, needs no maintenence,

Needs quite a bit of maintenance in fact.

can come free of charge, amuses and excercises the kids.

And can even eat the worst of the grandkids.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

On Friday, July 4, 2014 9:44:25 PM UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jul 2014 20:26:08 +0100, harryagain wrote:



How does a monitoring system help?



These days plod will not attend to a sounding alarm system in a

timely manner unless there is absolute evidence of intruders present.

Be that a witness seeing them or multiple sensors being triggered in

an order that indicates an intruder, possibly along with the

monitoring operator listening in to to any activity at the property.



What happens if the firm goes tits up?



It's a lucrative market, another company would take on the customers

if not the whole company.



You can install your own security DIY.



But not get a response from plod unless some one can say the

intruders (if they exist and it's not a spider) are still present.

--

Cheers

Dave.

Alarms with built in GSM diallers are common now,GSM dialling PIR under 12 quid

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wireless-M...em3c deb660be

or send you MMS with pic as well

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Security-W...em2ed2b01 ae3

had earlier generation of one of these for a few years on workshop:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1111943887... 4.m1439.l2649

That with CCTV network DVR and cams means if shed does phone me can tune in to see whats happening.

Last time, few weeks back, cop response on wet Saturday around midnight to confirmed 4 scroats with crowbar, 25 minutes.

Scroats dont like noise, they do recoil from that, PIR floods just make it easier not worried by them.

One thing CCTV does give you is chance to examine the recording of hooded up little bawbags in the act, physical security and noise as first layer over CCTV and lights for sure.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"Adam Aglionby" wrote in message
...
On Friday, July 4, 2014 9:44:25 PM UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jul 2014 20:26:08 +0100, harryagain wrote:



How does a monitoring system help?



These days plod will not attend to a sounding alarm system in a

timely manner unless there is absolute evidence of intruders present.

Be that a witness seeing them or multiple sensors being triggered in

an order that indicates an intruder, possibly along with the

monitoring operator listening in to to any activity at the property.



What happens if the firm goes tits up?



It's a lucrative market, another company would take on the customers

if not the whole company.



You can install your own security DIY.



But not get a response from plod unless some one can say the

intruders (if they exist and it's not a spider) are still present.

--

Cheers

Dave.

Alarms with built in GSM diallers are common now,GSM dialling PIR under 12
quid

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wireless-M...em3c deb660be

or send you MMS with pic as well

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Security-W...em2ed2b01 ae3

had earlier generation of one of these for a few years on workshop:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1111943887... 4.m1439.l2649

That with CCTV network DVR and cams means if shed does phone me can tune
in to see whats happening.

Last time, few weeks back, cop response on wet Saturday around midnight to
confirmed 4 scroats with crowbar, 25 minutes.

Scroats dont like noise, they do recoil from that, PIR floods just make it
easier not worried by them.

One thing CCTV does give you is chance to examine the recording of hooded
up little bawbags in the act, physical security and noise as first layer
over CCTV and lights for sure.

And when I had one of the arseholes on tape, I showed it to a teacher
at the local highschool I know and he recognised him instantly.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 4 Jul 2014 20:26:08 +0100, harryagain wrote:

How does a monitoring system help?

These days plod will not attend to a sounding alarm system in a
timely manner unless there is absolute evidence of intruders present.
Be that a witness seeing them or multiple sensors being triggered in
an order that indicates an intruder, possibly along with the
monitoring operator listening in to to any activity at the property.

What happens if the firm goes tits up?

It's a lucrative market, another company would take on the customers
if not the whole company.

You can install your own security DIY.

But not get a response from plod unless some one can say the
intruders (if they exist and it's not a spider) are still present.
--
Cheers
Dave.

So how does someone on the end of a telephone know the answer to all this?
It just transferrs the alarm to somewhere miles away.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Adam Aglionby" wrote in message
...
On Friday, July 4, 2014 9:44:25 PM UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jul 2014 20:26:08 +0100, harryagain wrote:



How does a monitoring system help?



These days plod will not attend to a sounding alarm system in a

timely manner unless there is absolute evidence of intruders present.

Be that a witness seeing them or multiple sensors being triggered in

an order that indicates an intruder, possibly along with the

monitoring operator listening in to to any activity at the property.



What happens if the firm goes tits up?



It's a lucrative market, another company would take on the customers

if not the whole company.



You can install your own security DIY.



But not get a response from plod unless some one can say the

intruders (if they exist and it's not a spider) are still present.

--

Cheers

Dave.

Alarms with built in GSM diallers are common now,GSM dialling PIR under
12 quid

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wireless-M...em3c deb660be

or send you MMS with pic as well

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Security-W...em2ed2b01 ae3

had earlier generation of one of these for a few years on workshop:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1111943887... 4.m1439.l2649

That with CCTV network DVR and cams means if shed does phone me can tune
in to see whats happening.

Last time, few weeks back, cop response on wet Saturday around midnight
to confirmed 4 scroats with crowbar, 25 minutes.

Scroats dont like noise, they do recoil from that, PIR floods just make
it easier not worried by them.

One thing CCTV does give you is chance to examine the recording of hooded
up little bawbags in the act, physical security and noise as first layer
over CCTV and lights for sure.

And when I had one of the arseholes on tape, I showed it to a teacher
at the local highschool I know and he recognised him instantly.

So how would security firm monitoring have helped here?

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

Huge wrote:

On 2014-07-04, robgraham wrote:

Anyone got any idea how much such monitoring costs?

I pay ~£200/yr.

What do you get for that, presumably the alarm company informs you
and/or plod, what does plod do when the alarm company informs them?

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Huge wrote:

On 2014-07-04, robgraham wrote:

Anyone got any idea how much such monitoring costs?

I pay ~£200/yr.

What do you get for that, presumably the alarm company informs you
and/or plod, what does plod do when the alarm company informs them?

all the alarm monitoring company will do is to ring you.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Adam Aglionby" wrote in message
...
On Friday, July 4, 2014 9:44:25 PM UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jul 2014 20:26:08 +0100, harryagain wrote:



How does a monitoring system help?



These days plod will not attend to a sounding alarm system in a

timely manner unless there is absolute evidence of intruders present.

Be that a witness seeing them or multiple sensors being triggered in

an order that indicates an intruder, possibly along with the

monitoring operator listening in to to any activity at the property.



What happens if the firm goes tits up?



It's a lucrative market, another company would take on the customers

if not the whole company.



You can install your own security DIY.



But not get a response from plod unless some one can say the

intruders (if they exist and it's not a spider) are still present.

--

Cheers

Dave.

Alarms with built in GSM diallers are common now,GSM dialling PIR under
12 quid

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wireless-M...em3c deb660be

or send you MMS with pic as well

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Security-W...em2ed2b01 ae3

had earlier generation of one of these for a few years on workshop:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1111943887... 4.m1439.l2649

That with CCTV network DVR and cams means if shed does phone me can tune
in to see whats happening.

Last time, few weeks back, cop response on wet Saturday around midnight
to confirmed 4 scroats with crowbar, 25 minutes.

Scroats dont like noise, they do recoil from that, PIR floods just make
it easier not worried by them.

One thing CCTV does give you is chance to examine the recording of
hooded up little bawbags in the act, physical security and noise as
first layer over CCTV and lights for sure.

And when I had one of the arseholes on tape, I showed it to a teacher
at the local highschool I know and he recognised him instantly.

So how would security firm monitoring have helped here?

It wouldn’t. I wasn’t commenting on monitoring.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2014-07-04, charles wrote:
In article , F
news@nowhere wrote:

[30 lines snipped]

A neighbour has just signed up to an ADT system. £20pm. Ouch!

My alarm rings my mobile phone.

Hugely useful if you're 300 miles away. Or abroad.

It can be if you have neighbours than can check what is going on.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 19:35:53 +0100, charles wrote:

My alarm rings my mobile phone.

Then what do you do? Even if your only 5 mins away that's plenty of
time for the place to be turned over and DVD/Telly, phones (mobiles
or landline), any other smallish easyly portable stuff to grabbed,
laptops, tablets, printers, ...

If you are further away phone plod won't help as you can't say that
there are intruders present. Phone a friend? Hum, a disturbed
intruder is just as likely to go through some body rather than round
when making their get away.

Maybe it's one of those alarms that connect the mobile to the alarms speaker
and microphones around the house... maybe even camera's.....

Then you can announce 'hey you, yes you, the little ******* burgling my
house wearing a hoodie and face mask, i can see and hear everything you are
doing...... yeah? well **** you too....... no stop that, no. stop, don't do
a **** on my persian rug, you little *******, hey, put that back, it's a
family heirloom, stop, i'm warning you'

:)

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2014-07-04, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 19:35:53 +0100, charles wrote:

My alarm rings my mobile phone.

Then what do you do? Even if your only 5 mins away that's plenty of
time for the place to be turned over and DVD/Telly, phones (mobiles
or landline), any other smallish easyly portable stuff to grabbed,
laptops, tablets, printers, ...

If you are further away phone plod won't help as you can't say that
there are intruders present. Phone a friend? Hum, a disturbed
intruder is just as likely to go through some body rather than round
when making their get away.

Spot on.

Nope.

We had an activation when we were on holiday in Malta. It turned out
to be a false alarm caused by a thunderstorm, which incidently fried the
panel. Alarm company policed it, nothing found, they sent a patrolman
to reset the alarm, found it wasn't working, sent for alarm engineer who
replaced and reprogrammed the panel and all while we were lying on a
beach (not really, I hate beach holidays) in the Mediterranean.

And some of us have neighbours that can do all that for free
and do that for the neighbours when their's goes off too.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

In message , Huge
writes
On 2014-07-05, Andy Burns wrote:
, presumably the alarm company informs you
and/or plod, what does plod do when the alarm company informs them?

Comes steaming down my drive at great speed, if experience is anything to go
by.

My son inherited an oldish system with his house that called the cops.
I was always the one that had to attend. I always got there first.
The last time, I overheard the plod, who I'd walked round the house
with, on her intercom saying " You can't be at the house because I'm
here and you're not here".
We were then up to the 3 false alarms and you're out, so he got the
local alarm company to install a new system. This is monitored by a 3rd
party company 24/7. They ring the son, but he switches his mobile to
silent at night, so occasionally at 3.00am'ish they ring me. I then
drive there and reset the false alarm. SWMBO seems to think it would be
better for her to stay at home in bed so there was someone to execute
the will if there was a villain in the bushes with a crowbar.
The alarm system is backed up by a bunch of CCTV cameras that can be
inspected from anywhere in the world.

I'm currently playing with cheap wifi cameras to see if I can cobble
together a simple CCTV system for another son. I've got it working
fairly well using iSpy software on Windows, but I'm currently trying and
failing to beat ZoneMinder into submission on Linux Mint.

I really think a cheap home-installed system with a bunch of wireless
pir's and some central unit that rings when there is an alarm, plus some
CCTV accessible via the router is as good as anything.

I have no idea what my son pays - he is abroad at the moment.
--
Bill

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

In message , Huge
writes in reply to
I really think a cheap home-installed system with a bunch of wireless
pir's and some central unit that rings when there is an alarm, plus some
CCTV accessible via the router is as good as anything.

Except, as I said, if you're too far away for it to be any help. In
which case it's worse than useless.

I think you can speculate about what might happen, but if you are far
away and see live video of intruders, it ought to be possible to ring
the local police and/or neighbours.

I just think that is at least as useful as getting a call from somewhere
(hopefully in the UK) saying the alarm has gone off. In our case the
monitoring is 24/7 but the alarm company is 9 to 5, and they don't have
a door key.

Alarm - police direct contact in our case didn't work because of the
number of false alarms caused by trigger happy pir's, pir signal
failure, branches falling off trees etc.
--
Bill

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

In article , Huge
wrote:
On 2014-07-05, Bill wrote:
In message , Huge
writes
On 2014-07-05, Andy Burns wrote:
, presumably the alarm company informs you and/or plod, what does plod
do when the alarm company informs them?

Comes steaming down my drive at great speed, if experience is anything
to go by.

[snippage]

I really think a cheap home-installed system with a bunch of wireless
pir's and some central unit that rings when there is an alarm, plus
some CCTV accessible via the router is as good as anything.

Except, as I said, if you're too far away for it to be any help. In which
case it's worse than useless.

our crime prevention officer said: "Burglar alarms alarm burglasr"

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , Huge
writes
On 2014-07-05, Andy Burns wrote:
, presumably the alarm company informs you
and/or plod, what does plod do when the alarm company informs them?

Comes steaming down my drive at great speed, if experience is anything to
go
by.

My son inherited an oldish system with his house that called the cops. I
was always the one that had to attend. I always got there first.
The last time, I overheard the plod, who I'd walked round the house with,
on her intercom saying " You can't be at the house because I'm here and
you're not here".
We were then up to the 3 false alarms and you're out, so he got the local
alarm company to install a new system. This is monitored by a 3rd party
company 24/7. They ring the son, but he switches his mobile to silent at
night, so occasionally at 3.00am'ish they ring me. I then drive there and
reset the false alarm. SWMBO seems to think it would be better for her to
stay at home in bed so there was someone to execute the will if there was
a villain in the bushes with a crowbar.
The alarm system is backed up by a bunch of CCTV cameras that can be
inspected from anywhere in the world.

I'm currently playing with cheap wifi cameras to see if I can cobble
together a simple CCTV system for another son. I've got it working fairly
well using iSpy software on Windows, but I'm currently trying and failing
to beat ZoneMinder into submission on Linux Mint.

I really think a cheap home-installed system with a bunch of wireless
pir's and some central unit that rings when there is an alarm, plus some
CCTV accessible via the router is as good as anything.

Its not as good as a big dog that lives in the house as well.

I have no idea what my son pays - he is abroad at the moment.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2014-07-05, Bill wrote:
In message , Huge
writes
On 2014-07-05, Andy Burns wrote:
, presumably the alarm company informs you
and/or plod, what does plod do when the alarm company informs them?

Comes steaming down my drive at great speed, if experience is anything to
go
by.

[snippage]

I really think a cheap home-installed system with a bunch of wireless
pir's and some central unit that rings when there is an alarm, plus some
CCTV accessible via the router is as good as anything.

Except, as I said, if you're too far away for it to be any help. In which
case it's worse than useless.

Its nothing like worse than useless. You can always call the cops
and tell them that you can see the criminals inside the house.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2014-07-05, Bill wrote:
In message , Huge
writes in reply to
I really think a cheap home-installed system with a bunch of wireless
pir's and some central unit that rings when there is an alarm, plus
some
CCTV accessible via the router is as good as anything.

Except, as I said, if you're too far away for it to be any help. In
which case it's worse than useless.

I think you can speculate about what might happen, but if you are far
away and see live video of intruders, it ought to be possible to ring
the local police and/or neighbours.

You want your neighbours to engage with burglars?

Mine are quite capable of checking if they can see any
activity at the house and calling the cops if they can.

You do realise that burglars kill people, don't you?

My neighbours are quite capable of not going close
enough to get killed.

And good luck convincing the local
plod that you're who you say you are.

Never needed to do that any time I have called them myself.

Ours are quite capable of checking who owns the mobile phone.

I just think that is at least as useful as getting a call from somewhere
(hopefully in the UK) saying the alarm has gone off. In our case the
monitoring is 24/7 but the alarm company is 9 to 5, and they don't have
a door key.

Then they're about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. You did read my
posting about the time ours went off when we were in Malta, didn't you?

Alarm - police direct contact

Isn't allowed any more. Unless you have a bullion vault in the City of
London, or the like.

in our case didn't work because of the
number of false alarms caused by trigger happy pir's, pir signal
failure, branches falling off trees etc.

Crappy alarm, then. hostage to fortune We haven't had a false alarm for
getting on for 15 years. /

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

On 5 Jul 2014 21:16:12 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2014-07-05, Bill wrote:
In message , Huge
writes in reply to
I really think a cheap home-installed system with a bunch of wireless
pir's and some central unit that rings when there is an alarm, plus some
CCTV accessible via the router is as good as anything.

Except, as I said, if you're too far away for it to be any help. In
which case it's worse than useless.

I think you can speculate about what might happen, but if you are far
away and see live video of intruders, it ought to be possible to ring
the local police and/or neighbours.

You want your neighbours to engage with burglars? You do realise that
burglars kill people, don't you? And good luck convincing the local
plod that you're who you say you are.

I just think that is at least as useful as getting a call from somewhere
(hopefully in the UK) saying the alarm has gone off. In our case the
monitoring is 24/7 but the alarm company is 9 to 5, and they don't have
a door key.

Then they're about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. You did read my
posting about the time ours went off when we were in Malta, didn't you?

Alarm - police direct contact

Isn't allowed any more. Unless you have a bullion vault in the City of
London, or the like.

in our case didn't work because of the
number of false alarms caused by trigger happy pir's, pir signal
failure, branches falling off trees etc.

Crappy alarm, then. hostage to fortune We haven't had a false alarm for
getting on for 15 years. /

Wireless PIRs are not fit for purpose in a permanent security
installation.



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

[snippage]

I really think a cheap home-installed system with a bunch of wireless
pir's and some central unit that rings when there is an alarm, plus some
CCTV accessible via the router is as good as anything.

Except, as I said, if you're too far away for it to be any help. In which
case it's worse than useless.

Its nothing like worse than useless. You can always call the cops
and tell them that you can see the criminals inside the house.


Happened here many years ago . Neighbours alarm went off they were away
at the time. Bit of excitement, called 999 was told that "could you make
sure there were people actually there" as they were short of staff and
it would take quite some while to attend. Told them wasn't too keen on
doing that as it was me against them and god knows what they might be
armed with so I said OK I'll go provided I could take my gun with me.

Whoooaa!!! No sir!, do not do that.. we'll have someone round there
straight away and very quickly there were three cars there inc someone
in a SWAT type vest. Made a big fuss re the "gun" well it was only an
old .177 airgun! ..looked the part in the dark;) but no you cannot
possibly do that you'd be in the wrong was a tad annoyed. Then I pointed
out where did these three cars come from your bloke said you had no one
around?.

With that a truce was called and off they went and that was that..

False alarm the burglar alarm was too;!...
--
Tony Sayer

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
[snippage]

I really think a cheap home-installed system with a bunch of wireless
pir's and some central unit that rings when there is an alarm, plus
some
CCTV accessible via the router is as good as anything.

Except, as I said, if you're too far away for it to be any help. In
which
case it's worse than useless.

Its nothing like worse than useless. You can always call the cops
and tell them that you can see the criminals inside the house.


Happened here many years ago . Neighbours alarm went off they were away
at the time. Bit of excitement, called 999 was told that "could you make
sure there were people actually there" as they were short of staff and
it would take quite some while to attend. Told them wasn't too keen on
doing that as it was me against them and god knows what they might be
armed with so I said OK I'll go provided I could take my gun with me.

Whoooaa!!! No sir!, do not do that.. we'll have someone round there
straight away and very quickly there were three cars there inc someone
in a SWAT type vest. Made a big fuss re the "gun" well it was only an
old .177 airgun! ..looked the part in the dark;) but no you cannot
possibly do that you'd be in the wrong was a tad annoyed. Then I pointed
out where did these three cars come from your bloke said you had no one
around?.


Sounds familiar. When I had a run in with the bad neighbours I phoned the
police and explained that I had been attacked in my own garden and that it
was all on CCTV. I was told that no-one was available so I replied "then
call an ambulance as I am going back outside to kick their heads in".

A police interceptor (one of them on the TV programme) arrived within 4
minutes, shortly followed by 4 patrol cars and a riot van.

-
Adam

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

/Graham.
- show quoted text -
Wireless PIRs are not fit for purpose in a permanent security
installation.



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%/q

More like a baseless comment I think

Jim K

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

/Huge
- show quoted text -
Spot on.

We had an activation when we were on holiday in Malta. It turned out to
be a false alarm caused by a thunderstorm, which incidently fried the
panel. Alarm company policed it, nothing found, they sent a patrolman to
reset the alarm, found it wasn't working, sent for alarm engineer who
replaced and reprogrammed the panel and all w....../q

Snip

How much did they charge you for that?
Did they know you were away?

Jim K

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

On Fri, 4 Jul 2014 09:18:11 -0700 (PDT), robgraham
wrote:

I've just had a fairly gentle but persuasive visit from a guy selling a security system.
At least his claim is that he is giving me the security system as an local advert ("your address was chosen at random"!!!)
and selling me the monitoring service.

So we already know he isn't the most honest of people. Not a good
start for your potential security company.

It is an all singing/dancing system I am assured - wireless, fob operation,
intruder and fire sensing and emergency button for illness; a "Grade 2 Security System".
I also get free maintenance, etc.

If he is talking of wireless sensors it only because they make for a
cheap install. The only wire free system which conforms both to
British Standards and the ACPO Intruder Alarm Policy is a BS 6799
Class VI alarm. Forget any other alphabet soup - if it isn't doesn't
specifically state that standard it isn't. Wireless sensors are
inherently less reliable than wired systems.

Also what monitoring are they offering? Many of the cheap installs
simply use a dial out device on your existing phone line. These are
defeated simply by cutting the phone line where it enters the building
or more easily by taking the phone off the hook as you enter the house
and dialling any digit. As the dialler has usually not finished
dialling by then the Alarm Receiving Centre (ARC) doesn't know there
is a problem. Only monitoring systems such as Redcare properly
monitor the line for tampering and work whether or not the line is
being used.

The problem I face is that the monitoring charge is high (£4.5k for 10 years) and
I suspect that because it is being paid through the security company
rather than directly to the monitoring company, the real cost of the electronics
is in this charge and that it is not 'free' at all.

Of course it isn't free. These companies offer cheap equipment
installed as quickly and cheaply as they can with no proper risk
assessment.

Anyone got any idea how much such monitoring costs?

Call around a couple of local installers for quotes for a Redcare or
Dualcom system. Monitoring only should be about £20 per month.

(I've seen people been sold "24hr monitoring" when the ARC operated
09:00 to 17:00 Monday to Friday.).

£450 per year for monitoring and maintenance (which is essentially
what you are paying for) is pointing towards this not being a quality
job and not being good value for money.

Or are there variables
that I'm not aware of that make this cost not easily assessed?

Rule no 1 is first spend money on physical security, so better doors
locks and windows, hostile thorn bushes around perimiters, better
fences etc. An alarm will deter but not prevent. Good physical
security does both. If you fit a simple "bell only" alarm (not
monitored) and have good physical security that is the better
solution.

Usually alarm sellers tell you you may save money on your house
insurance by fitting their product. What they don't tell you is that
if you do tell your insurance company then they have a nasty habit of
turning down claims if you can't prove the alarm was triggered in the
event of a break in. Do you really want to have to set the alarm
every night when you go to bed? To set it every time you want to sit
out in the back garden? Also if you have dial up system the scrote
has bypassed the ARC will happilly tell your insurance company they
received no indication of alarm activation at the time of the
burglary.

They also fail to mention that the police hate domestic intruder
alarms with a vengeance, mainly because about 95% of alerts from them
are false alarms. If you have a registered domestic alarm monitored
by an ARC it will attract one of two levels of cover.

Level 1 is misleadingly called "Immediate response" The police do not
guarantee to attend within any time and any response will be
determined by the call on resources. If you live near a town and the
alarm goes off at 23:30 on a Saturday night you might get a response
by midday on Sunday.

If in any 12 month rolling period you get 3 false alarms the response
level drops to "Level 3" which means they will take no notice of it.

Did they also mention you will have to supply details of two
keyholders (or employ a central keyholding service) who must be able
to attend your house within 20 minutes at any time 24/7. The
keyholder must have their own transport, know how to enter the house
and operate the alarm and be contactable by phone.

What is often being offered is actually not a proper monitored alarm
but a very cheap and nasty alarm and an ARC which won't contact the
police in the event of an alarm activation (assuming they ever get
notification of it) but will just contact you and one or two
alternative keyholders.

Simple check is to ensure your property will be issued by the police
with an alarm Unique Reference Number (URN). If you won't (or they
try to claim it is the ARC which is registered) then it isn't an alarm
registered for any police response.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

On 06/07/2014 00:02, Graham. wrote:

Wireless PIRs are not fit for purpose in a permanent security
installation.


PIR are often installed so they can see the wrong things. I advised
someone recently that a PIR pointing at his front door wasn't too good
an idea. Snail mail posted through his letter box on a cold day into his
centrally heated hallway would set of an alarm, especially if were are
many items delivered at the same time.


--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

On 12/07/2014 08:44, alan wrote:
On 06/07/2014 00:02, Graham. wrote:

Wireless PIRs are not fit for purpose in a permanent security
installation.


PIR are often installed so they can see the wrong things. I advised
someone recently that a PIR pointing at his front door wasn't too good
an idea. Snail mail posted through his letter box on a cold day into his
centrally heated hallway would set of an alarm, especially if were are
many items delivered at the same time.



Even one letter posted can set off my alarm, if I forget to close the door.

The pir is 5m from the letter box.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

/alan
On 06/07/2014 00:02, Graham. wrote:

Wireless PIRs are not fit for purpose in a permanent security
installation.


PIR are often installed so they can see the wrong things. I advised
someone recently that a PIR pointing at his front door wasn't too good
an idea. Snail mail posted through his letter box on a cold day into his
centrally heated hallway would set of an alarm, especially if were are
many items delivered at the same time. /q

Ah the old 'visible to scrotes or no false alarms' dilemma....

Jim K

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

On 12/07/2014 21:34, JimK wrote:
/alan
On 06/07/2014 00:02, Graham. wrote:

Wireless PIRs are not fit for purpose in a permanent security
installation.


PIR are often installed so they can see the wrong things. I advised
someone recently that a PIR pointing at his front door wasn't too good
an idea. Snail mail posted through his letter box on a cold day into his
centrally heated hallway would set of an alarm, especially if were are
many items delivered at the same time. /q

Ah the old 'visible to scrotes or no false alarms' dilemma....


Easily solved by having one visible to the scrotes, but not connected.
And another one that covers the area from a sensible position.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Home Security Monitoring costs
 

/John Williamson
- show quoted text -
Easily solved by having one visible to the scrotes, but not connected.
And another one that covers the area from a sensible position.


--
Tciao for Now!

John. /q

Indeed, you'd hope alarm 'specialistas' would do just that wouldn't you?

When I wanted a quote for an alarm the knob wouldn't even get off his fat arse & visit - just quoted me 1500!! WTF?

Jim K