Somewhere under my back garden there's a soakaway pit, fed from a gutter
downpipe. I'd like to run a second feed to it from guttering newly fitted
to my garage, but I have to find it first. The garden is undeveloped, just
poor quality grass over a barely-leveled area of ground, so can be dug up
with no problems - but is there a method for locating the soakaway?

In the very centre of what passes for the lawn is a roughly square patch of
concrete some 12" x 12" with what looks like the base socket for a circular
dryer at its centre. I suppose there's a possibility that this was done
when the soakaway was installed, so perhaps that's a reasonable place to
start looking. Or perhaps I should wait for rain and employ a
water-diviner...

On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 13:36:27 +0100, Bert Coules wrote:

Somewhere under my back garden there's a soakaway pit, fed from a gutter
downpipe. I'd like to run a second feed to it from guttering newly
fitted to my garage, but I have to find it first. The garden is
undeveloped, just poor quality grass over a barely-leveled area of
ground, so can be dug up with no problems - but is there a method for
locating the soakaway?

In the very centre of what passes for the lawn is a roughly square patch
of concrete some 12" x 12" with what looks like the base socket for a
circular dryer at its centre. I suppose there's a possibility that this
was done when the soakaway was installed, so perhaps that's a reasonable
place to start looking. Or perhaps I should wait for rain and employ a
water-diviner...

How old is the property?
Age + building regs should tell you the minimum distance from the house.

Best method?

Binary chop?

First dig down where the house downpipe is and locate the underground pipe
going to the soak away - expose enough to find the line of the pipe run,
then peg a cord out along that line.

Dig down about 3 metres out along the line in a long narrow slit trench at
right angles to the run, until you either find or don't find the pipe.

If you find the pipe, go out another 3 metres.

If you don't find the pipe, come in 1.5 metres (that is halfway between
the house and the 'lack of pipe').

When you have established a segment along the line where one end is 'pipe'
and the other end is 'not pipe' then you dig another slit trench in the
middle of the section - 'chop' the section in half.

Repeat using the ever smaller segments until you find the soakaway.

Allegedly more efficient than just digging a slit trench every metre along
the run, or exposing the complete pipe run.

Have fun.

Dave R

Dave,

Thanks for that. The building is early sixties: I'll check about the
minimum distance. I'll also look to see if the location of the soakaway is
marked on the deeds: I suppose there's a chance.

Your "binary chop" approach sounds sensible.

Bert

On 28/06/14 13:36, Bert Coules wrote:
Somewhere under my back garden there's a soakaway pit, fed from a gutter
downpipe. I'd like to run a second feed to it from guttering newly
fitted to my garage, but I have to find it first. The garden is
undeveloped, just poor quality grass over a barely-leveled area of
ground, so can be dug up with no problems - but is there a method for
locating the soakaway?

In the very centre of what passes for the lawn is a roughly square patch
of concrete some 12" x 12" with what looks like the base socket for a
circular dryer at its centre. I suppose there's a possibility that this
was done when the soakaway was installed, so perhaps that's a reasonable
place to start looking. Or perhaps I should wait for rain and employ a
water-diviner...



Either:

1) Buy a cheap waterproof chinese webcam on a 5m USB cable. Push down
pipe and see which direction it goes and how far.

I've done this...



2) Stick the hose down it and use a listening stick to find where on the
ground you can hear running water. I have not done this.

Tim Watts wrote:

1) Buy a cheap waterproof chinese webcam on a 5m USB cable. Push down pipe
and see which direction it goes and how far.

I can see how that could determine the distance, but how could I tell the
direction?

2) Stick the hose down it and use a listening stick to find where on the
ground you can hear running water.

A listening stick presumably being something you hold to the ground at one
end and to your ear at the other?

Thanks for the thoughts.

Bert

On Saturday, 28 June 2014 14:32:18 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 28/06/14 13:36, Bert Coules wrote:

Somewhere under my back garden there's a soakaway pit, fed from a gutter

downpipe. I'd like to run a second feed to it from guttering newly

fitted to my garage, but I have to find it first. The garden is

undeveloped, just poor quality grass over a barely-leveled area of

ground, so can be dug up with no problems - but is there a method for

locating the soakaway?



In the very centre of what passes for the lawn is a roughly square patch

of concrete some 12" x 12" with what looks like the base socket for a

circular dryer at its centre. I suppose there's a possibility that this

was done when the soakaway was installed, so perhaps that's a reasonable

place to start looking. Or perhaps I should wait for rain and employ a

water-diviner...







Either:



1) Buy a cheap waterproof chinese webcam on a 5m USB cable. Push down

pipe and see which direction it goes and how far.



I've done this...







2) Stick the hose down it and use a listening stick to find where on the

ground you can hear running water. I have not done this.

Dowsing rods?

Jim K

On 28/06/14 15:17, Bert Coules wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

1) Buy a cheap waterproof chinese webcam on a 5m USB cable. Push down
pipe and see which direction it goes and how far.

I can see how that could determine the distance, but how could I tell
the direction?

Well, that is tricky... But it will tell you if you have any bends in
the pipe.

You should be able to estimate the starting direction when you see how
the cable goes down the bend.

A test hole near the start should confirm the direction accurately
enough to make a good estimate of the far end if it is a straight run.


2) Stick the hose down it and use a listening stick to find where on
the ground you can hear running water.

A listening stick presumably being something you hold to the ground at
one end and to your ear at the other?

Indeed. The water companies still use them.

I guess this is really going to depend on what the ground is like as to
how well the sound comes through. OTOH a rounded end metal tube mop
handle might be worth a go and you might have one you can pull off a mop
for a test.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Bert

On 28/06/14 15:37, JimK wrote:
Dowsing rods?

Hazel twig or pair of bent coat hanger wire in biro tubes?

I'm perfectly happy to try a spot of dowsing, but when there's enough water
in the soakaway to make it detectable, isn't there likely to be quite a lot
of water all over the place anyway? Won't my bent bits of coat hanger get
confused?

I suppose I could run a hose up to the gutter...

Bert

On 28/06/14 20:27, Bert Coules wrote:
I'm perfectly happy to try a spot of dowsing, but when there's enough
water in the soakaway to make it detectable, isn't there likely to be
quite a lot of water all over the place anyway? Won't my bent bits of
coat hanger get confused?

I suppose I could run a hose up to the gutter...

Bert

Oh - so you don't have an open access point at ground level?

Bert Coules wrote
Tim Watts wrote

1) Buy a cheap waterproof chinese webcam on a 5m USB cable.
Push down pipe and see which direction it goes and how far.

I can see how that could determine the distance,
but how could I tell the direction?

You should be able to see any bends.

2) Stick the hose down it and use a listening stick to
find where on the ground you can hear running water.

A listening stick presumably being something you hold
to the ground at one end and to your ear at the other?

Thanks for the thoughts.

Tim Watts wrote:

Oh - so you don't have an open access point at ground level?

No, the downpipe just disappears into the ground.

Bert

On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 20:09:29 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

A listening stick presumably being something you hold to the ground at
one end and to your ear at the other?

Indeed. The water companies still use them.

I guess this is really going to depend on what the ground is like as to
how well the sound comes through. OTOH a rounded end metal tube mop
handle might be worth a go and you might have one you can pull off a mop
for a test.

An inspector from AW, trying to find a leak in my supply, used a solid stick
with a metal point (blunt cone, not sharp) at the bottom end and a sort of
very shallow cup for the top. A tube seems logical, but it gives the
'seashell' effect, so if the leak or sound is faint you hear your own blood
circulating (if you don't, the position of the soakaway is no longer
relevant!).
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

/Tim Watts
On 28/06/14 15:37, JimK wrote:
Dowsing rods?

Hazel twig or pair of bent coat hanger wire in biro tubes?/q

The latter are easier to fake with....:-)

Jim K

I suppose they used plastic papes then?

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Bert Coules" wrote in message
o.uk...
Somewhere under my back garden there's a soakaway pit, fed from a gutter
downpipe. I'd like to run a second feed to it from guttering newly fitted
to my garage, but I have to find it first. The garden is undeveloped,
just poor quality grass over a barely-leveled area of ground, so can be
dug up with no problems - but is there a method for locating the soakaway?

In the very centre of what passes for the lawn is a roughly square patch
of concrete some 12" x 12" with what looks like the base socket for a
circular dryer at its centre. I suppose there's a possibility that this
was done when the soakaway was installed, so perhaps that's a reasonable
place to start looking. Or perhaps I should wait for rain and employ a
water-diviner...

Brian Gaff wrote:

I suppose they used plastic pipes then?

I don't know, Brian. Early sixties, so I suppose it's a possibility. I'm
going to have a tentative dig at the base of the downpipe and see what I can
unearth.

Bert

/Tim Watts
- show quoted text -
Either:

1) Buy a cheap waterproof chinese webcam on a 5m USB cable. Push down
pipe and see which direction it goes and how far.

I've done this... /q

Gotta link to the USB camera plse?

Jim K

JimK wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

Buy a cheap waterproof chinese webcam on a 5m USB cable. Push down
pipe and see which direction it goes and how far.

Gotta link to the USB camera plse?

How do you keep track of which way up it is? I suppose a trickle of
water should give a clue ...

On 29/06/14 10:27, JimK wrote:
/Tim Watts
- show quoted text -
Either:

1) Buy a cheap waterproof chinese webcam on a 5m USB cable. Push down
pipe and see which direction it goes and how far.

I've done this... /q

Gotta link to the USB camera plse?

Jim K


Something like:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/m/221419377509

Search ebay for "5m USB camera" or "Waterproof USB camera".

Often from China, which is OK if you can wait 2 weeks for delivery. The
above claims to be a UK seller.

Tim Watts wrote:

Something like:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/m/221419377509

The above claims to be a UK seller.

Thanks for the link. I just ordered one, and the estimated delivery date is
next Tuesday.

Bert

On 29/06/14 10:36, Andy Burns wrote:
JimK wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

Buy a cheap waterproof chinese webcam on a 5m USB cable. Push down
pipe and see which direction it goes and how far.

Gotta link to the USB camera plse?

How do you keep track of which way up it is? I suppose a trickle of
water should give a clue ...



Basically, yes...

I should have said that I've discovered that the downpipe can be
disconnected, so using a camera has become feasible.

Bert

"Bert Coules" wrote in message
o.uk...
Brian Gaff wrote:

I suppose they used plastic pipes then?

I don't know, Brian. Early sixties, so I suppose it's a possibility. I'm
going to have a tentative dig at the base of the downpipe and see what I
can unearth.

Bert

No possibility if it was built in the early sixties, even the early
seventies hadn't heard of plastic drains....I vaguely remember using them
for the first time in the mid eighties, and they hadn't been around for long
by then

Phil L wrote:

No possibility if it was built in the early sixties...

Oh right, thanks. I thought plastic had come in much earlier than that.

Bert

In message , Bert
Coules writes
Phil L wrote:

No possibility if it was built in the early sixties...

Oh right, thanks. I thought plastic had come in much earlier than that.

My first soakaway was around 1972 and I have no recollection of using
salt glaze pipe. No recollection of using plastic at that time either so
no help really:-)

--
Tim Lamb

Phil L wrote
Bert Coules wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

I suppose they used plastic pipes then?

I don't know, Brian. Early sixties, so I suppose it's a possibility.
I'm going to have a tentative dig at the base of the downpipe
and see what I can unearth.

No possibility if it was built in the early sixties, even
the early seventies hadn't heard of plastic drains....

That's not right, I used them myself for my roof drains in the
very early 70s. They weren't revolutionary new then either.

I vaguely remember using them for the first time in the mid
eighties, and they hadn't been around for long by then

That mangles the chronology.

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Bert
Coules writes
Phil L wrote:

No possibility if it was built in the early sixties...

Oh right, thanks. I thought plastic had come in much earlier than that.

My first soakaway was around 1972 and I have no recollection of using
salt glaze pipe. No recollection of using plastic at that time either so
no help really:-)

I buit an extension in 1972 which needed modification to the drains. No
sign of plastic; it was all Hepworth glazed pipe.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

Tim Lamb wrote
Bert Coules wrote
Phil L wrote:

No possibility if it was built in the early sixties...

Oh right, thanks. I thought plastic had come in much earlier than that.

My first soakaway was around 1972 and I have no recollection of using
salt glaze pipe. No recollection of using plastic at that time either so
no help really:-)

I know I used plastic pipe before that. And it was to get
the roof water to the street gutter, not to a soakaway.

I used square plastic pipe in the holes in the full sized concrete
blocks for the verticals too, so there is nothing visible at all.

On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 15:56:19 +0100 Phil L wrote :
No possibility if it was built in the early sixties, even the early
seventies hadn't heard of plastic drains....I vaguely remember using
them for the first time in the mid eighties, and they hadn't been
around for long by then

Marley PVC drainage was around when I was at uni 1971-74. Before PVC
the alternative to clay was pitch-fibre pipes: OK until the rats
started nibbling.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 13:59:17 +0100, "Bert Coules"
wrote:

Dave,

Thanks for that. The building is early sixties: I'll check about the
minimum distance. I'll also look to see if the location of the soakaway is
marked on the deeds: I suppose there's a chance.

Are you sure it's a soakaway? IIRC storm drains were used mostly in
those days.

If it is a soakaway it may not be able to cope with the additional
water from another source.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Mark wrote:

Are you sure it's a soakaway? IIRC storm drains were used mostly in
those days.

That's an interesting point. To be honest, I'm hazy on the difference. I
must check.

If it is a soakaway it may not be able to cope with the additional
water from another source.

Yes, that point was raised by someone else. Once I know exactly (or even
approximately) what I'm dealing with, that's clearly a factor I'll have to
consider.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Bert

Can you not tap into the existing pipework close to the house once you've had an exploratory dig to discover its direction.
Alternatively once you know the direction run sewer rods up until they go no further. When you pull out the rods leave them screwed together then lay them along the line of the direction you have established. This should give you some indication of the location of the soakaway

Can you not tap into the existing pipework
close to the house...?

That's not really practical, unfortunately, but thanks for the thought.
Your other suggestion is a good one too.

Bert

I wrote:

That's an interesting point. To be honest, I'm hazy on the difference.

Though on reflection, doesn't a storm drain invariably have an open grating
or similar at ground level? If that's the case then what I have isn't one.

Bert

Bert Coules wrote
Bert Coules wrote

That's an interesting point. To be honest, I'm hazy on the difference.

Though on reflection, doesn't a storm drain invariably
have an open grating or similar at ground level?

Nope, mine don't and I don't recall ever seeing any that do with houses.

If that's the case then what I have isn't one.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:26:48 +0100, "Bert Coules"
wrote:

I wrote:

That's an interesting point. To be honest, I'm hazy on the difference.

Though on reflection, doesn't a storm drain invariably have an open grating
or similar at ground level? If that's the case then what I have isn't one.

IIRC normally there will be an inspection cover but it might be
covered up or not on even on your property.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Rod Speed wrote:

Nope, mine don't and I don't recall ever seeing any that do with houses.

Oh right, thanks.

Bert

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Tim Lamb wrote
Bert Coules wrote
Phil L wrote:

No possibility if it was built in the early sixties...

Oh right, thanks. I thought plastic had come in much earlier than that.

My first soakaway was around 1972 and I have no recollection of using
salt glaze pipe. No recollection of using plastic at that time either so
no help really:-)

I know I used plastic pipe before that. And it was to get the roof water
to the street gutter, not to a soakaway.
I used square plastic pipe in the holes in the full sized concrete
blocks for the verticals too, so there is nothing visible at all.

You are talking about plastic rainwater pipes, these have been around a lot
longer than underground plastic drainage

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Phil L wrote
Bert Coules wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

I suppose they used plastic pipes then?

I don't know, Brian. Early sixties, so I suppose it's a possibility.
I'm going to have a tentative dig at the base of the downpipe and see
what I can unearth.

No possibility if it was built in the early sixties, even the early
seventies hadn't heard of plastic drains....

That's not right, I used them myself for my roof drains in the very early
70s. They weren't revolutionary new then either.
Roof drains are very rarely underground.

I vaguely remember using them for the first time in the mid eighties, and
they hadn't been around for long by then

That mangles the chronology.

Not really, they /may/ have been used in the mid to late seventies but
certainly not *early* seventies, and were only just coming onto the scene
properly ten years later

Having a 1800's cottage probably updated in the 1920's with a septic tank and, I'm assuming, roof water soakaways, both of the latter having now become disfunctional, I would suggest that the OP may well find that trying to get a camera down the pipes could be nigh impossible due to sediment build up.

OK my original soakaways were some 80 years old, but the pipes were absolutely blocked with muck, and new soakaways - oversize lemonade bottle crates - have had to be installed. I've put in traps to try and reduce the muck concentration, though I'm not sure why as I will be shuffling off long before these 'soakaways' approach their life expectancy.

What I'm saying is that the OP should be aware that a soakaway built in the 60's might well be marginal now in capacity and that he may have to put in a new one.