I need to modify some medical oxygen plastic pipes, just like the pipe
used for fish tank air pumps. The similar plastic ends need to be glued
in place. What would be a suitable glue please?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I need to modify some medical oxygen plastic pipes

For a /medical/ application, or just re-using the pipe for something else?

Andy Burns formulated the question :
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I need to modify some medical oxygen plastic pipes

For a /medical/ application, or just re-using the pipe for something else?

Medical - oxygen supply pipe.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 22/06/2014 16:56, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns formulated the question :
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I need to modify some medical oxygen plastic pipes

For a /medical/ application, or just re-using the pipe for something
else?

Medical - oxygen supply pipe.

I would be surprised if all oxygen supply pipes are made of the same
plastic. Therefore you need first to identify the polymer(s). Actually,
if intended for medical application, I would contact the manufacturer of
the original pipe. It can be important to get these things right.

--
Rod

On 22/06/2014 13:07, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I need to modify some medical oxygen plastic pipes, just like the pipe
used for fish tank air pumps. The similar plastic ends need to be glued
in place. What would be a suitable glue please?

A lot of medical pipes are silicone, which is difficult to glue. I have
a vague recollection that oxygen pipes may be PVC, in which case solvent
glues should work, and *should* be safe once all the solvents have
evaporated. But normally the push-fit connections are considered secure
enough. If your problem is that push fit connections are getting pulled
out another strategy might be to tape them together.

On 22/06/14 13:07, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I need to modify some medical oxygen plastic pipes, just like the pipe
used for fish tank air pumps. The similar plastic ends need to be glued
in place. What would be a suitable glue please?


If you don't know that I suspect that you probably shouldn't attempt it
without supervision. I suspect that you aren't permitted to make changes
or repairs except under supervision, if at all.


--
Bernard Peek

On 22/06/2014 17:59, newshound wrote:
On 22/06/2014 13:07, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I need to modify some medical oxygen plastic pipes, just like the pipe
used for fish tank air pumps. The similar plastic ends need to be glued
in place. What would be a suitable glue please?

A lot of medical pipes are silicone, which is difficult to glue. I have
a vague recollection that oxygen pipes may be PVC, in which case solvent
glues should work, and *should* be safe once all the solvents have
evaporated. But normally the push-fit connections are considered secure
enough. If your problem is that push fit connections are getting pulled
out another strategy might be to tape them together.

The preferred material for flexible oxygen therapy tubing is PTFE,
because of its low reactivity with oxygen and its high ignition
temperature. Fluoroelastomer, nylon and polyethylene are possible,
although less preferred, alternatives. Joints are normally made
mechanically, with external clips if necessary, and I seriously doubt
that the use of adhesives would be advisable.

--
Colin Bignell

On 22/06/2014 17:44, polygonum wrote:
On 22/06/2014 16:56, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns formulated the question :
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I need to modify some medical oxygen plastic pipes

For a /medical/ application, or just re-using the pipe for something
else?

Medical - oxygen supply pipe.

I would be surprised if all oxygen supply pipes are made of the same
plastic. Therefore you need first to identify the polymer(s). Actually,
if intended for medical application, I would contact the manufacturer of
the original pipe. It can be important to get these things right.

Don't bother joining lengths of pipe. Is this what we call "bubble tube"
in the trade in that it widens out at regular intervals, allowing you to
cut it at a suitable point to fit on variously sized supply outlets,
cylinders, masks, etc. Ask the hospital etc to cut you off a piece from
the box (it's supplied like CAT5) of the length you need.

On 23/06/2014 00:27, Part Timer wrote:
On 22/06/2014 17:44, polygonum wrote:
On 22/06/2014 16:56, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns formulated the question :
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I need to modify some medical oxygen plastic pipes

For a /medical/ application, or just re-using the pipe for something
else?

Medical - oxygen supply pipe.

I would be surprised if all oxygen supply pipes are made of the same
plastic. Therefore you need first to identify the polymer(s). Actually,
if intended for medical application, I would contact the manufacturer of
the original pipe. It can be important to get these things right.

Don't bother joining lengths of pipe. Is this what we call "bubble tube"
in the trade in that it widens out at regular intervals, allowing you to
cut it at a suitable point to fit on variously sized supply outlets,
cylinders, masks, etc. Ask the hospital etc to cut you off a piece from
the box (it's supplied like CAT5) of the length you need.

Bubble tube is one form of flexible oxygen therapy tube, but it can also
be of constant diameter. It is often coloured green for ease of
identification.

Bubble tube is said to have been an accidental invention, when sombody
noticed tubing that had been badly made had varying diameters and
realised that could be made into a feature.

--
Colin Bignell

"insert my surname here submitted this idea :
On 23/06/2014 00:27, Part Timer wrote:
On 22/06/2014 17:44, polygonum wrote:
On 22/06/2014 16:56, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns formulated the question :
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I need to modify some medical oxygen plastic pipes

For a /medical/ application, or just re-using the pipe for something
else?

Medical - oxygen supply pipe.

I would be surprised if all oxygen supply pipes are made of the same
plastic. Therefore you need first to identify the polymer(s). Actually,
if intended for medical application, I would contact the manufacturer of
the original pipe. It can be important to get these things right.

Don't bother joining lengths of pipe. Is this what we call "bubble tube"
in the trade in that it widens out at regular intervals, allowing you to
cut it at a suitable point to fit on variously sized supply outlets,
cylinders, masks, etc. Ask the hospital etc to cut you off a piece from
the box (it's supplied like CAT5) of the length you need.

Bubble tube is one form of flexible oxygen therapy tube, but it can also be
of constant diameter. It is often coloured green for ease of identification.

Bubble tube is said to have been an accidental invention, when sombody
noticed tubing that had been badly made had varying diameters and realised
that could be made into a feature.

Well thanks for the replies and suggestions...

The tube is just clear, straight sided and about 6mm diameter with a
plastic adaptor on each end and a flame trap. I cannot see any signs of
glue, but the parts do seem to be very firmly attached.

SWMBO now needs almost constant oxygen, which is provided from a large
mains operated oxygen generator. When we go off in the caravan, the
idea is to be able to put the generator in the bathroom at the rear of
the van, with the beds at the front. On our last trip, that involved
the tube and power running front to back along the caravan's corridor,
which is a bit of a nuisance.

My idea is to semi- permanently install a pipe and power between the
two points, so they are well out of the way.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 23/06/2014 10:23, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
"insert my surname here submitted this idea :
On 23/06/2014 00:27, Part Timer wrote:
On 22/06/2014 17:44, polygonum wrote:
On 22/06/2014 16:56, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns formulated the question :
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I need to modify some medical oxygen plastic pipes



Well thanks for the replies and suggestions...

The tube is just clear, straight sided and about 6mm diameter with a
plastic adaptor on each end and a flame trap. I cannot see any signs of
glue, but the parts do seem to be very firmly attached.

SWMBO now needs almost constant oxygen, which is provided from a large
mains operated oxygen generator. When we go off in the caravan, the idea
is to be able to put the generator in the bathroom at the rear of the
van, with the beds at the front. On our last trip, that involved the
tube and power running front to back along the caravan's corridor, which
is a bit of a nuisance.

My idea is to semi- permanently install a pipe and power between the two
points, so they are well out of the way.

Sorry to hear that. Sounds reasonable to me. My late FiL who was a very
practical guy rigged up oxygen access all over the house with catenery
hoses, but just using the standard connectors when he moved around. I
still have some of them somewhere.

On 23/06/2014 10:23, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
....
The tube is just clear, straight sided and about 6mm diameter with a
plastic adaptor on each end and a flame trap. I cannot see any signs of
glue, but the parts do seem to be very firmly attached.

SWMBO now needs almost constant oxygen, which is provided from a large
mains operated oxygen generator. When we go off in the caravan, the idea
is to be able to put the generator in the bathroom at the rear of the
van, with the beds at the front. On our last trip, that involved the
tube and power running front to back along the caravan's corridor, which
is a bit of a nuisance.

My idea is to semi- permanently install a pipe and power between the two
points, so they are well out of the way.


In that situation, it would be a lot safer to use copper tube, with
quick-fit connectors at each end. Oxygen is a very dangerous substance
and vibration alone can generate enough energy to cause combustion in
some materials.

Ideally, buy copper tube that has already been de-greased for use with
oxygen. Otherwise you need to ensure that every bit of grease, other
organic material and foreign particles have been removed from the inside
before capping the ends, to keep the bore clean. Fit it in place, then
add oxygen approved quick-fit connectors.

--
Colin Bignell

On 23/06/2014 14:15, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 23/06/2014 10:23, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
...
The tube is just clear, straight sided and about 6mm diameter with a
plastic adaptor on each end and a flame trap. I cannot see any signs of
glue, but the parts do seem to be very firmly attached.

SWMBO now needs almost constant oxygen, which is provided from a large
mains operated oxygen generator. When we go off in the caravan, the idea
is to be able to put the generator in the bathroom at the rear of the
van, with the beds at the front. On our last trip, that involved the
tube and power running front to back along the caravan's corridor, which
is a bit of a nuisance.

My idea is to semi- permanently install a pipe and power between the two
points, so they are well out of the way.


In that situation, it would be a lot safer to use copper tube, with
quick-fit connectors at each end. Oxygen is a very dangerous substance
and vibration alone can generate enough energy to cause combustion in
some materials.

Ideally, buy copper tube that has already been de-greased for use with
oxygen. Otherwise you need to ensure that every bit of grease, other
organic material and foreign particles have been removed from the inside
before capping the ends, to keep the bore clean. Fit it in place, then
add oxygen approved quick-fit connectors.

But remember, this isn't 100% oxygen, although I can't recall the
concentration off-hand. I would have thought that with a *continuous*
run of "proper" flexible pipe between the generator and the point of
use, routed sensibly (behind paneling? surface mounted with P clips and
self tappers?) that there isn't really a risk. Since the generator runs
on mains it can only be used when the caravan is static. I agree, if you
were running a system from cylinders in a camper van or boat then
suitable mechanical protection would be much more important.

The generators are quite noisy and separation is certainly a good goal.

On 23/06/2014 14:15, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 23/06/2014 10:23, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
....
The tube is just clear, straight sided and about 6mm diameter with a
plastic adaptor on each end and a flame trap. I cannot see any signs of
glue, but the parts do seem to be very firmly attached.

SWMBO now needs almost constant oxygen, which is provided from a large
mains operated oxygen generator. When we go off in the caravan, the idea
is to be able to put the generator in the bathroom at the rear of the
van, with the beds at the front. On our last trip, that involved the
tube and power running front to back along the caravan's corridor, which
is a bit of a nuisance.

My idea is to semi- permanently install a pipe and power between the two
points, so they are well out of the way.


In that situation, it would be a lot safer to use copper tube, with
quick-fit connectors at each end. Oxygen is a very dangerous substance
and vibration alone can generate enough energy to cause combustion in
some materials.

Ideally, buy copper tube that has already been de-greased for use with
oxygen. Otherwise you need to ensure that every bit of grease, other
organic material and foreign particles have been removed from the inside
before capping the ends, to keep the bore clean. Fit it in place, then
add oxygen approved quick-fit connectors.

If we were talking 100 bar or so I would agree. But near pure oxygen at
atmospheric pressure is rarely a problem.

On 23/06/14 14:15, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:

In that situation, it would be a lot safer to use copper tube, with
quick-fit connectors at each end. Oxygen is a very dangerous substance
and vibration alone can generate enough energy to cause combustion in
some materials.

That includes copper. This really is not a suitable job for DIY.



--
Bernard Peek

On 23/06/2014 14:46, newshound wrote:
On 23/06/2014 14:15, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 23/06/2014 10:23, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
...
The tube is just clear, straight sided and about 6mm diameter with a
plastic adaptor on each end and a flame trap. I cannot see any signs of
glue, but the parts do seem to be very firmly attached.

SWMBO now needs almost constant oxygen, which is provided from a large
mains operated oxygen generator. When we go off in the caravan, the idea
is to be able to put the generator in the bathroom at the rear of the
van, with the beds at the front. On our last trip, that involved the
tube and power running front to back along the caravan's corridor, which
is a bit of a nuisance.

My idea is to semi- permanently install a pipe and power between the two
points, so they are well out of the way.


In that situation, it would be a lot safer to use copper tube, with
quick-fit connectors at each end. Oxygen is a very dangerous substance
and vibration alone can generate enough energy to cause combustion in
some materials.

Ideally, buy copper tube that has already been de-greased for use with
oxygen. Otherwise you need to ensure that every bit of grease, other
organic material and foreign particles have been removed from the inside
before capping the ends, to keep the bore clean. Fit it in place, then
add oxygen approved quick-fit connectors.

But remember, this isn't 100% oxygen, although I can't recall the
concentration off-hand.

93% according to one manufacturer. Pure enough to be a serious fire hazard.

I would have thought that with a *continuous*
run of "proper" flexible pipe between the generator and the point of
use, routed sensibly (behind paneling? surface mounted with P clips and
self tappers?) that there isn't really a risk. Since the generator runs
on mains it can only be used when the caravan is static. I agree, if you
were running a system from cylinders in a camper van or boat then
suitable mechanical protection would be much more important.

The aim is a high ignition or melting point for the tubing. Stainless
steel would be better from that point of view, but most people would
find it more difficult to handle.

The generators are quite noisy and separation is certainly a good goal.


--
Colin Bignell

On 23/06/2014 15:12, Fredxxx wrote:
On 23/06/2014 14:15, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 23/06/2014 10:23, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
....
The tube is just clear, straight sided and about 6mm diameter with a
plastic adaptor on each end and a flame trap. I cannot see any signs of
glue, but the parts do seem to be very firmly attached.

SWMBO now needs almost constant oxygen, which is provided from a large
mains operated oxygen generator. When we go off in the caravan, the idea
is to be able to put the generator in the bathroom at the rear of the
van, with the beds at the front. On our last trip, that involved the
tube and power running front to back along the caravan's corridor, which
is a bit of a nuisance.

My idea is to semi- permanently install a pipe and power between the two
points, so they are well out of the way.


In that situation, it would be a lot safer to use copper tube, with
quick-fit connectors at each end. Oxygen is a very dangerous substance
and vibration alone can generate enough energy to cause combustion in
some materials.

Ideally, buy copper tube that has already been de-greased for use with
oxygen. Otherwise you need to ensure that every bit of grease, other
organic material and foreign particles have been removed from the inside
before capping the ends, to keep the bore clean. Fit it in place, then
add oxygen approved quick-fit connectors.

If we were talking 100 bar or so I would agree. But near pure oxygen at
atmospheric pressure is rarely a problem.

Well, not quite true in an enclosed space with an ignition source and
combustible material, as the Apollo programme discovered.

But the difference here is that even if the generator is delivering 93%,
it is still only delivering at (I guess) something like 1 psig through
perhaps a 4 mm bore pipe. So the concentration at any distance from a
leak will not be high. OK, not something you would want to deliver into
the bilges of a boat, but strung across the ceiling of a caravan with no
joints except at the ends doesn't seem *that* risky to me. Especially if
there are a couple of smoke detectors, and considering the difference it
makes to someone's quality of life.

On 23/06/2014 10:23, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
8

The tube is just clear, straight sided and about 6mm diameter with a
plastic adaptor on each end and a flame trap. I cannot see any signs
of glue, but the parts do seem to be very firmly attached.

The last time I looked at oxygen tube it has ridges along the inside of
the tube so you can't get a good seal by pushing it onto something.
You get plastic adapters that seal to the outside with glue.
It bonds instantly so its either a solvent or "super" glue.


SWMBO now needs almost constant oxygen, which is provided from a
large mains operated oxygen generator. When we go off in the caravan,
the idea is to be able to put the generator in the bathroom at the
rear of the van, with the beds at the front. On our last trip, that
involved the tube and power running front to back along the caravan's
corridor, which is a bit of a nuisance.

My idea is to semi- permanently install a pipe and power between the
two points, so they are well out of the way.


My dad had a battery operated concentrator, much better than trying to
take a full sized one anywhere. They even used it when he had his
cateract op as it saved him waiting for a room with oxygen.

Dennis@home explained on 23/06/2014 :
My dad had a battery operated concentrator, much better than trying to take a
full sized one anywhere. They even used it when he had his cateract op as it
saved him waiting for a room with oxygen.

That is something we have heard rumours of, but so far no details. Are
they lighter/smaller than the mains powered ones? Would they be of any
use in a caravan long term?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 23/06/2014 20:03, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dennis@home explained on 23/06/2014 :
My dad had a battery operated concentrator, much better than trying to
take a full sized one anywhere. They even used it when he had his
cateract op as it saved him waiting for a room with oxygen.

That is something we have heard rumours of, but so far no details. Are
they lighter/smaller than the mains powered ones? Would they be of any
use in a caravan long term?

You could do worse than go to Amazon and type in "oxygen concentrator".

Quite a bit of information by reading the appropriate listings.

--
Rod

On 23/06/2014 19:46, Dennis@home wrote:
On 23/06/2014 10:23, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
8

The tube is just clear, straight sided and about 6mm diameter with a
plastic adaptor on each end and a flame trap. I cannot see any signs
of glue, but the parts do seem to be very firmly attached.

The last time I looked at oxygen tube it has ridges along the inside of
the tube so you can't get a good seal by pushing it onto something.
You get plastic adapters that seal to the outside with glue.
It bonds instantly so its either a solvent or "super" glue.


ISTR that my FiL's had the internally ridged tube, but there was a
"socket" bonded on to one end of each tube, and joins were made just by
pushing a length of tube into that socket. No adhesive used.

On 23/06/2014 15:12, Fredxxx wrote:
If we were talking 100 bar or so I would agree. But near pure oxygen at
atmospheric pressure is rarely a problem.

Apollo 1.

Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/06/2014 15:12, Fredxxx wrote:
If we were talking 100 bar or so I would agree. But near pure oxygen at
atmospheric pressure is rarely a problem.

Apollo 1.

Big difference between a room full of 100% O2 and a tube full of O2 in a
room full of air. I'm perhaps pretty sure that there's been a mention of a
flame arrester in the gas line.

Tim

On 23/06/2014 21:29, Tim+ wrote:
Big difference between a room full of 100% O2 and a tube full of O2 in a
room full of air. I'm perhaps pretty sure that there's been a mention of a
flame arrester in the gas line.

Sure. It's not likely to burn the house down. But if you do get a
problem, and the hose catches it's likely to burn quite fiercely. Unless
you have the correct plastic, in which case it won't burn at all.

Andy

On 23/06/2014 18:56, newshound wrote:
On 23/06/2014 15:12, Fredxxx wrote:
On 23/06/2014 14:15, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 23/06/2014 10:23, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
....
The tube is just clear, straight sided and about 6mm diameter with a
plastic adaptor on each end and a flame trap. I cannot see any signs of
glue, but the parts do seem to be very firmly attached.

SWMBO now needs almost constant oxygen, which is provided from a large
mains operated oxygen generator. When we go off in the caravan, the
idea
is to be able to put the generator in the bathroom at the rear of the
van, with the beds at the front. On our last trip, that involved the
tube and power running front to back along the caravan's corridor,
which
is a bit of a nuisance.

My idea is to semi- permanently install a pipe and power between the
two
points, so they are well out of the way.


In that situation, it would be a lot safer to use copper tube, with
quick-fit connectors at each end. Oxygen is a very dangerous substance
and vibration alone can generate enough energy to cause combustion in
some materials.

Ideally, buy copper tube that has already been de-greased for use with
oxygen. Otherwise you need to ensure that every bit of grease, other
organic material and foreign particles have been removed from the inside
before capping the ends, to keep the bore clean. Fit it in place, then
add oxygen approved quick-fit connectors.

If we were talking 100 bar or so I would agree. But near pure oxygen at
atmospheric pressure is rarely a problem.

Well, not quite true in an enclosed space with an ignition source and
combustible material, as the Apollo programme discovered.

But the difference here is that even if the generator is delivering 93%,
it is still only delivering at (I guess) something like 1 psig through
perhaps a 4 mm bore pipe. So the concentration at any distance from a
leak will not be high. OK, not something you would want to deliver into
the bilges of a boat, but strung across the ceiling of a caravan with no
joints except at the ends doesn't seem *that* risky to me. Especially if
there are a couple of smoke detectors, and considering the difference it
makes to someone's quality of life.

I don't get it. The OP mentions an oxygen concentrator. Therefore the
overall oxygen level within the same room will stay the same and not
increase.

Oxygen will rapidly mix/diffuse with the rest of the (oxygen depleted)
air to make it back to near normal air again. Oxygen generators produce
little oxygen. Even a dustbin sized one will only produce 5 litres per
minute.

On 24/06/2014 20:59, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/06/2014 21:29, Tim+ wrote:
Big difference between a room full of 100% O2 and a tube full of O2 in a
room full of air. I'm perhaps pretty sure that there's been a mention
of a
flame arrester in the gas line.

Sure. It's not likely to burn the house down. But if you do get a
problem, and the hose catches it's likely to burn quite fiercely. Unless
you have the correct plastic, in which case it won't burn at all.

Have you any idea of the supply rate of oxygen?

There is also the on/off switch.

on 24/06/2014, Fredxxx supposed :
On 23/06/2014 18:56, newshound wrote:
On 23/06/2014 15:12, Fredxxx wrote:
On 23/06/2014 14:15, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 23/06/2014 10:23, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
....
The tube is just clear, straight sided and about 6mm diameter with a
plastic adaptor on each end and a flame trap. I cannot see any signs of
glue, but the parts do seem to be very firmly attached.

SWMBO now needs almost constant oxygen, which is provided from a large
mains operated oxygen generator. When we go off in the caravan, the
idea
is to be able to put the generator in the bathroom at the rear of the
van, with the beds at the front. On our last trip, that involved the
tube and power running front to back along the caravan's corridor,
which
is a bit of a nuisance.

My idea is to semi- permanently install a pipe and power between the
two
points, so they are well out of the way.


In that situation, it would be a lot safer to use copper tube, with
quick-fit connectors at each end. Oxygen is a very dangerous substance
and vibration alone can generate enough energy to cause combustion in
some materials.

Ideally, buy copper tube that has already been de-greased for use with
oxygen. Otherwise you need to ensure that every bit of grease, other
organic material and foreign particles have been removed from the inside
before capping the ends, to keep the bore clean. Fit it in place, then
add oxygen approved quick-fit connectors.

If we were talking 100 bar or so I would agree. But near pure oxygen at
atmospheric pressure is rarely a problem.

Well, not quite true in an enclosed space with an ignition source and
combustible material, as the Apollo programme discovered.

But the difference here is that even if the generator is delivering 93%,
it is still only delivering at (I guess) something like 1 psig through
perhaps a 4 mm bore pipe. So the concentration at any distance from a
leak will not be high. OK, not something you would want to deliver into
the bilges of a boat, but strung across the ceiling of a caravan with no
joints except at the ends doesn't seem *that* risky to me. Especially if
there are a couple of smoke detectors, and considering the difference it
makes to someone's quality of life.

I don't get it. The OP mentions an oxygen concentrator. Therefore the overall
oxygen level within the same room will stay the same and not increase.

Oxygen will rapidly mix/diffuse with the rest of the (oxygen depleted) air to
make it back to near normal air again. Oxygen generators produce little
oxygen. Even a dustbin sized one will only produce 5 litres per minute.

This one is a small cabinet on wheels about two feet tall and can be
set to deliver from zero to 5L per minute. It has a mains failure
alarm.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk