http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06...rgy_rationing/

The UK government will today set out Second World War-style measures to keep the lights on and avert power cuts as a "last resort". The price to Britons will be high.

Factories will be asked to "voluntarily" shut down to save energy at peak times for homes, while others will be paid to provide their own backup power should they have a spare generator or two lying around. And as part of the government's wider energy market reforms, electricity producers will be able to name their price for bringing mothballed fossil-fuel-powered plants back on line.





The problem is that the energy plants were closed due to compliance with EU environmental regulations, but the UK has failed to build adequate replacements. This means the country can barely cope with peak winter demand. Successive governments have chosen to build expensive, unreliable renewables instead - which can't meet the nation's peak energy needs.

In an interview ahead of a speech today, energy minister Ed Davey - a Liberal Democrat and Oxford philosophy, politics and economics graduate - said businesses would be "delighted" to be paid to go dark - and said the measures were good value compared to building new power stations.

Davey predicted the UK would not suffer power cuts, and he may be right. But the price to consumers will be high: with the UK paying far over the market rate for new fossil-fuel energy.

Gas plants have closed because they're not economical to run when ticking along; when demand is under 57 per cent, the operator may as well close it. The government's complex measures include a new "Capacity Market", which encourages mothballed gas and coal plants to be pressed into action.

Energy market experts predict that because the UK's need is so urgent, the producers will be able to demand a high price: "existing gas and coal plant (particularly older assets close to retirement) may have significant leverage in negotiating reserve contracts with Grid as the system capacity margin tightens," consultants at Timera Energy noted this year.

Dirty diesel already contributes one quarter, or around 500MW, of the National Grid's Short Term Operating Reserve (STOR). The cost to the taxpayer of maintaining and using diesel backup - fleets of generators parked in shipping containers - is astronomical around 12 times the market rate. The National Grid wants to expand STOR from 2GW to about 8GW.

If Blighty's governments had opted for gas rather than wind, they could have met the EU carbon-dioxide emissions targets for one-tenth of the £120bn cost to install wind farms, calculated Professor Gordon Hughes in a 2012 study.

The UK government's Department of Energy and Climate Change promised us a copy of Davey's speech, or excerpts of it, but much like the power stations, it hasn't shown up. He's due to speak at 1.40pm, UK time, today.

The capacity crunch has been predicted for about seven years, with voices such as Professor Ian Fells warning UK energy policy would lead to either power cuts or extremely high peak prices. Everyone seems to have seen this coming - except the people in charge. (R)

In article , Phil
scribeth thus
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06...rgy_rationing/

The UK government will today set out Second World War-style measures to keep the
lights on and avert power cuts as a "last resort". The price to Britons will be
high.

Factories will be asked to "voluntarily" shut down to save energy at peak times
for homes, while others will be paid to provide their own backup power should
they have a spare generator or two lying around. And as part of the government's
wider energy market reforms, electricity producers will be able to name their
price for bringing mothballed fossil-fuel-powered plants back on line.





The problem is that the energy plants were closed due to compliance with EU
environmental regulations, but the UK has failed to build adequate replacements.
This means the country can barely cope with peak winter demand. Successive
governments have chosen to build expensive, unreliable renewables instead -
which can't meet the nation's peak energy needs.



In an interview ahead of a speech today, energy minister Ed Davey - a Liberal
Democrat and Oxford philosophy, politics and economics graduate -


Humm... Perhaps theres the real problem, if he'd studied engineering
rather than bull****ting;(..

Don't suppose he'd be a politico then?....


--
Tony Sayer

In an interview ahead of a speech today, energy minister Ed Davey -
a Liberal Democrat and Oxford philosophy, politics and economics
graduate -


Humm... Perhaps theres the real problem, if he'd studied engineering
rather than bull****ting;(..

But as usual correlation does not imply causation: some Ministers who
read PPE have the nous to listen to expert advice and understand it; and
some Ministers who didn't read PPE won't listen (or can't understand it
if they do).

And then of course there are the ones who listen, understand but still
put party and/or personal advancement before country no matter how
important the issue.

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

Phil wrote:

It may get even worse. I am told that in France the metal thieves are
now targeting windmills and stripping out the cables and even the
generators! So wind power looks even more unreliable.

In article , Robin
scribeth thus
In an interview ahead of a speech today, energy minister Ed Davey -
a Liberal Democrat and Oxford philosophy, politics and economics
graduate -


Humm... Perhaps theres the real problem, if he'd studied engineering
rather than bull****ting;(..

But as usual correlation does not imply causation: some Ministers who
read PPE have the nous to listen to expert advice and understand it; and
some Ministers who didn't read PPE won't listen (or can't understand it
if they do).

And then of course there are the ones who listen, understand but still
put party and/or personal advancement before country no matter how
important the issue.


Like Merkel pandering the green wallies...

--
Tony Sayer

On 13/06/2014 16:09, Capitol wrote:
Phil wrote:

It may get even worse. I am told that in France the metal thieves
are now targeting windmills and stripping out the cables and even the
generators! So wind power looks even more unreliable.

The generators contain copper - obviously. Less obviously some have
neodymium magnets. The SOLE source of supply for neodymium (and other
"rare earth" metals) is China because the mining process produces large
amounts of radioactive waste. A recent attempt to re-open an American
mine was stopped for this reason.

It's also used in motors for electric cars, computer discs etc and is
much in demand.

Another Dave
--
Change nospam to gmx in e-mail.

On 13/06/2014 16:09, Capitol wrote:
Phil wrote:

It may get even worse. I am told that in France the metal thieves
are now targeting windmills and stripping out the cables and even the
generators! So wind power looks even more unreliable.


about time some one in government made a decision with regard to the
future of our energy supply, the severn barrage is probably the best
energy generator, with the advantage of controlling high tides and thus
the possible flooding of areas of the severn.There would be no harm to
waders (flying type), melting ice cap flooding would not happen because
of the control.Road access between wales and the south west would be an
extra.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On Friday, June 13, 2014 12:56:58 PM UTC+1, Robin wrote:
In an interview ahead of a speech today, energy minister Ed Davey -
a Liberal Democrat and Oxford philosophy, politics and economics
graduate -
Humm... Perhaps theres the real problem, if he'd studied engineering
rather than bull****ting;(..
But as usual correlation does not imply causation: some Ministers who
read PPE have the nous to listen to expert advice and understand it; and
some Ministers who didn't read PPE won't listen (or can't understand it
if they do).

I don't expect a Minister to be particularly qualified to run a particular department, but how many of the senior Civil Service advisors in the Energy ministry also have PPE or similar degrees, vs engineering degrees?

Owain

On 13/06/2014 17:14, critcher wrote:
severn barrage is probably the best energy generator

Well... you need to do Morecambe Bay too, so that each can fill in the
slack tide period for the other.

And that will only give you 2-3GW continuous. For a rather large price.

Andy

On 15/06/2014 21:43, Tim Streater wrote:
Yes. As is usual with so-called renewables, you have to build at least
two power sources to get the output of one. With wind, you need some
backup such as gas, with tidal it's worse because your output would
always have a sinusoidal component unless the two barrages' tides were
180deg out of phase. Are they, for Severn and Morecombe Bay?

90 degrees / 6 hours. Which is what you want - full flow on one while
the other is at slack tide. But then you DON'T need a gas backup, you
have reliable power 24/265, so it's better than wind.

And if so,
are the bays of similar size and shape so that the power outputs would
be of similar magnitude?

No. Severn could generate a lot more. You have to size for the weak point.

If not, better of building a new nuclear power station.

Abso-bloody-lutely.

Andy