Hey guys!

I'm a new DIY-er and an avid flight simulation pilot. I want to make my own cockpit using MDF and timber but have no idea where to start. I've been told not to screw MDF to MDF as MDF is a weak material and will not hold for very long. The advice was to use a block of wood to hold both pieces of wood together.

I've been to my local B&Q a few times but the wood available there seems to be rather soft and flimsy. I have no idea what to ask for but I was hoping for timber/wood that was harder. My plans for my pit calls for a few lengths of timber as a structural support --- I will make a "platform" with timber underneath and a "surface" of MDF. This platform is essential because I plan to screw on (attach) the side consoles and monitor stand to this assembly.

At this point, I am really very new so I am not sure of what specific questions to ask. Any help would be appreciated.

Get googling?

Jim K

On 27/04/2014 12:02, bagoako wrote:
Hey guys!

I'm a new DIY-er and an avid flight simulation pilot. I want to make my
own cockpit using MDF and timber but have no idea where to start. I've
been told not to screw MDF to MDF as MDF is a weak material and will not
hold for very long. The advice was to use a block of wood to hold both
pieces of wood together.

I've been to my local B&Q a few times but the wood available there seems
to be rather soft and flimsy. I have no idea what to ask for but I was
hoping for timber/wood that was harder. My plans for my pit calls for a
few lengths of timber as a structural support --- I will make a
"platform" with timber underneath and a "surface" of MDF. This platform
is essential because I plan to screw on (attach) the side consoles and
monitor stand to this assembly.

At this point, I am really very new so I am not sure of what specific
questions to ask. Any help would be appreciated.




You can buy plastic jointing blocks specifically designed to join pieces
of MDF together at right angles.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

John Williamson wrote:

bagoako wrote:

I've been told not to screw MDF to MDF as MDF is a weak material
and will not hold for very long. The advice was to use a block of
wood to hold both pieces of wood together.

Certainly MDF screwed direct to MDF, won't stand-up to much abuse.

You can buy plastic jointing blocks specifically designed to join pieces
of MDF together at right angles.

Also screws designed specifically for MDF

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/sd3339/p11083

On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 13:02:55 +0200, bagoako wrote:

Hey guys!

I'm a new DIY-er and an avid flight simulation pilot. I want to make my
own cockpit using MDF and timber but have no idea where to start. I've
been told not to screw MDF to MDF as MDF is a weak material and will not
hold for very long. The advice was to use a block of wood to hold both
pieces of wood together.

Yep. Depending on what sort of weight you need it all to support, you can
either use square section wood or plastic corner blocks, as somebody else
has already mentioned.

If you need it to be REALLY sturdy, then the stuff used to make the
structure for partition walls is cheap and ubiquitous in 3"x2" cross
section. Just ask for CLS.

You probably don't need the outer skin to be as heavy as MDF - ply would
probably do just fine for much of it, with MDF for the bits that need to
take more hammer.

I've been to my local B&Q a few times but the wood available there seems
to be rather soft and flimsy.

Start off by heading to a proper builder's merchant or timber yard...

On 27 Apr 2014, bagoako grunted:

I'm a new DIY-er and an avid flight simulation pilot. I want to make my
own cockpit using MDF and timber but have no idea where to start.

Have you come across this guy?: http://tinyurl.com/lr9yw8w (or
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-dream-pilot-
spent-15-years-20-000-building-replica-cockpit-home.html)

Might provide some ideas?

--
David

"bagoako" wrote in message
...

Hey guys!

I'm a new DIY-er and an avid flight simulation pilot. I want to make my
own cockpit using MDF and timber but have no idea where to start. I've
been told not to screw MDF to MDF as MDF is a weak material and will not
hold for very long. The advice was to use a block of wood to hold both
pieces of wood together.

I've been to my local B&Q a few times but the wood available there seems
to be rather soft and flimsy. I have no idea what to ask for but I was
hoping for timber/wood that was harder. My plans for my pit calls for a
few lengths of timber as a structural support --- I will make a
"platform" with timber underneath and a "surface" of MDF. This platform
is essential because I plan to screw on (attach) the side consoles and
monitor stand to this assembly.

At this point, I am really very new so I am not sure of what specific
questions to ask. Any help would be appreciated.



Home flight simulators are bollix.
Go down to your local gliding club and ask about a trial lesson.
You can experience the real thing which is totally unrelated to"fligth
simulators".

--
bagoako

Lobster wrote:
On 27 Apr 2014, bagoako grunted:

I'm a new DIY-er and an avid flight simulation pilot. I want to make my
own cockpit using MDF and timber but have no idea where to start.

Have you come across this guy?: http://tinyurl.com/lr9yw8w (or
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-dream-pilot-
spent-15-years-20-000-building-replica-cockpit-home.html)

Might provide some ideas?

Take the bit by the horn and build it out of welded square steel tube
and cover with light ply.

F Murtz wrote:

Take the bit by the horn and build it out of welded square steel tube
and cover with light ply.

Or if welding's not your thing, use one of the aluminium
extrusion/connector systems

http://www.metallin.co.uk/shop/connecting-aluminium-profile

Nah wood covered with doped fabric, couple of wings etc

There'll be a wiki somewhere.....


Jim K

On 27/04/2014 16:10, harryagain wrote:
....
Home flight simulators are bollix....

That rather depends what you understand by home flight simulator.

This one is used by flying clubs but is quite affordable:

http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Elite-I...ftware-86+8846

It is very realistic and allows programming of in-flight failures
to challenge the flying skills of the pilot, without risking life.

Of course, if you add all the bells and whistles, it does get a
little expensive:

http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Elite-I...g-Package+1201

Colin Bignell

On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 20:12:53 +0100, Nightjar wrote:

On 27/04/2014 16:10, harryagain wrote:
Home flight simulators are bollix....

That rather depends what you understand...

It's Harry. We know the answer to that.

On 27/04/2014 12:02, bagoako wrote:
Hey guys!

I'm a new DIY-er and an avid flight simulation pilot. I want to make my
own cockpit using MDF and timber but have no idea where to start. I've
been told not to screw MDF to MDF as MDF is a weak material and will not
hold for very long. The advice was to use a block of wood to hold both
pieces of wood together.

I've been to my local B&Q a few times but the wood available there seems
to be rather soft and flimsy. I have no idea what to ask for but I was
hoping for timber/wood that was harder. My plans for my pit calls for a
few lengths of timber as a structural support --- I will make a
"platform" with timber underneath and a "surface" of MDF. This platform
is essential because I plan to screw on (attach) the side consoles and
monitor stand to this assembly.

At this point, I am really very new so I am not sure of what specific
questions to ask. Any help would be appreciated.




A bit difficult to advise without knowing exactly what you want to
build. Does it need to look like a plane, with curved surfaces?

Assuming you mean a box with a seat maybe something like a "passport
photo" machine or a motorcycle sidecar I'd consider making the
"structural" or load bearing stuff from cheap 18 mm plywood
("shuttering" ply). It's a bit splintery but if you sand it and give it
a couple of coats of paint it will be OK. You can joint two bits at
right angles quickly and strongly with "biscuits". You'll need a
circular saw, a sawboard, and a biscuit cutter. For lighter stuff you
could use 9mm or 12 mm ply. I would steer clear of MDF as it is not so
"forgiving". For "cladding" the cheapest material is probably hardboard.

A basic cordless drill and some Quicksilver or similar twin start
screws, and some drills are worth having. Where you use "batten" to join
two panels at right angles it is worth screwing and gluing for strength,
but make sure the geometry is right before you glue.

[sarcasm]Wow! Why didn't I think of that?![/sarcasm]



That pulls the MDF towards it... which I don't think would work. What I've been advised to do is to drill THROUGH the MDF and use the block of wood + screw to hold the MDF in place. Instead of having the screw teeth inside the MDF and pulling it towards the "jointing block," the idea was to have the screw teeth inside the block of wood and use that and the screw head to "sandwich" the MDF and keep it steady... I hope that made sense.



Thanks, I got that on my list!



Well, I was planning to build a central area to which all other parts of the cockpit would be screwed onto. The central area would also support the pilot seat so thick support timbers would be great.

I would then have two "towers" that will screw onto the central area, these towers will hold my joystick and throttle -- I am using Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS. As the two towers will only be small, I am worried that they might warp/bend with the stresses/torque from hard yanking-and-banking and this is where I am really worried that the screws will just come off if I use the soft timber I see in B&Q.

I plan to use 18mm MDF for the central area's flooring, then maybe 12mm MDF as the walls of the tower.



Thanks David! He and I have quite a few things in common, but he's a commercial bus driver. I "fly" the F-16 Falcon in Falcon BMS.



I am well on my way to my bronze badge and I have been given control during aerotow since my first training flight. Stalls and recovery discussed and performed on my 5th flight. Assisted landing (P2 worked the brakes) since my first flight as well, and did my own landing on my 4th flight. I am told this is not "normal progression" for a glider student and even the CFI acknowledges that my flight sim experience is a factor for my skill level.

Pity an ASK 21 or a Discus 1000 can't carry missiles





No access to welding tools, no welding skills, and the aluminium stuff is just expensive. Buying an Obutto or similar would end up cheaper.



No, I am not building a replica cockpit. I just want this for a more ergonomic position. Sitting in an office chair with my Warthog HOTAS controls on the desk means my arms are in a higher position compared to an actual pilot in a fighter plane cockpit. I am after the function of things and with my limited woodworking skills (ie, NONE!!), the less cutting I have to do, the better!!

As I've said, I do plan to make the central area with 18mm MDF, with as thick timber as I can find. I wonder why there is constant reference to plywood though.... is it stronger than MDF? The other "load-bearing" parts would be the towers I've mentioned earlier.

I've also managed to buy an actual Martin Baker ejection seat and I would need to mount it using lengths of timber, so I would need really strong/hard timber so that it doesn't flex/bend/pit from all the weight of myself plus the seat.

I gather at this point that B&Q's selection of timber isn't quality material? Is there a rating system or name for the hardness of timber? I'd like to be able to go up to a guy and say "do you have CLS timber with hardness of 5 and legth of XX.Xcm"? Also, is it possible to get properly "squared" planed timber? I'd love to do this myself but like I said, no skill, not tools too!

Thanks!

On Monday, April 28, 2014 1:15:52 AM UTC+1, bagoako wrote:
'JimK[_3_ Wrote:
;3227959']Get googling?
Jim K
John Williamson;3227960 Wrote:
[color=blue][i]
'Andy Burns[_9_ Wrote:
;3227970']Also screws designed specifically for MDF
'Toolstation Screws & Fixings Tite Range MDF-Tite Tri-Lock Screw'
(http://www.toolstation.com/shop/sd3339/p11083)
Thanks, I got that on my list!

plasterboard screws are the ones to get...

Well, I was planning to build a central area to which all other parts of
the cockpit would be screwed onto. The central area would also support
the pilot seat so thick support timbers would be great.

36x63mm CLS would do that

I would then have two "towers" that will screw onto the central area,
these towers will hold my joystick and throttle -- I am using
Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS. As the two towers will only be small, I am
worried that they might warp/bend with the stresses/torque from hard
yanking-and-banking and this is where I am really worried that the
screws will just come off if I use the soft timber I see in B&Q.
I plan to use 18mm MDF for the central area's flooring, then maybe 12mm
MDF as the walls of the tower.

forget mdf, ply or OSB are the ones to use.


newshound;3228202 Wrote:
A bit difficult to advise without knowing exactly what
you want to
build. Does it need to look like a plane, with curved surfaces?
Assuming you mean a box with a seat maybe something like a "passport
photo" machine or a motorcycle sidecar I'd consider making the
"structural" or load bearing stuff from cheap 18 mm plywood
("shuttering" ply). It's a bit splintery but if you sand it and give it
a couple of coats of paint it will be OK. You can joint two bits at
right angles quickly and strongly with "biscuits". You'll need a
circular saw, a sawboard, and a biscuit cutter. For lighter stuff you
could use 9mm or 12 mm ply. I would steer clear of MDF as it is not so
"forgiving". For "cladding" the cheapest material is probably
hardboard.
A basic cordless drill and some Quicksilver or similar twin start
screws, and some drills are worth having. Where you use "batten" to join
two panels at right angles it is worth screwing and gluing for strength,
but make sure the geometry is right before you glue.

+1 all round, though I'd probably skip the hardboard

No, I am not building a replica cockpit. I just want this for a more
ergonomic position. Sitting in an office chair with my Warthog HOTAS
controls on the desk means my arms are in a higher position compared to
an actual pilot in a fighter plane cockpit. I am after the function of
things and with my limited woodworking skills (ie, NONE!!), the less
cutting I have to do, the better!!

some diy sheds will cut to any rectangular size for you

As I've said, I do plan to make the central area with 18mm MDF, with as
thick timber as I can find. I wonder why there is constant reference to
plywood though.... is it stronger than MDF?

vastly

The other "load-bearing"
parts would be the towers I've mentioned earlier.
I've also managed to buy an actual Martin Baker ejection seat and I
would need to mount it using lengths of timber, so I would need really
strong/hard timber so that it doesn't flex/bend/pit from all the weight
of myself plus the seat.

36x61 should do it

I gather at this point that B&Q's selection of timber isn't quality
material?

its cheap spruce, fine for your app as long as you avoid bent stuff


Is there a rating system or name for the hardness of timber?
I'd like to be able to go up to a guy and say "do you have CLS timber
with hardness of 5 and legth of XX.Xcm"?

There is, but its really not relevant for this app

Also, is it possible to get
properly "squared" planed timber? I'd love to do this myself but like I
said, no skill, not tools too!
Thanks!

its called PSE. Most planed is PSE now


NT

/ 'JimK[_3_ Wrote: ;3227959']Get googling? Jim K Wow! Why didn't I think of that?!/q

I think we all know the reason...

Jim K

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2014 16:10, harryagain wrote:
...
Home flight simulators are bollix....

That rather depends what you understand by home flight simulator.

This one is used by flying clubs but is quite affordable:

http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Elite-I...ftware-86+8846

It is very realistic and allows programming of in-flight failures
to challenge the flying skills of the pilot, without risking life.

Of course, if you add all the bells and whistles, it does get a
little expensive:

http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Elite-I...g-Package+1201

Colin Bignell

WelI have done both. And tiddly little home flight simulators are bollix.
No flying skills are needed.

You have to spend millions to get anywhere near realism. And even then it's
limited.

On 28/04/2014 18:52, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2014 16:10, harryagain wrote:
...
Home flight simulators are bollix....

That rather depends what you understand by home flight simulator.

This one is used by flying clubs but is quite affordable:

http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Elite-I...ftware-86+8846

It is very realistic and allows programming of in-flight failures
to challenge the flying skills of the pilot, without risking life.

Of course, if you add all the bells and whistles, it does get a
little expensive:

http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Elite-I...g-Package+1201


WelI have done both. And tiddly little home flight simulators are bollix.
No flying skills are needed.

I have done both too. I used to use the one I posted a link to when I
had a Seneca III and couldn't get out to fly it. Being designed as a
training aid, it allowed me to practice recognising and responding to
emergencies without actually encountering them in real flight.

You have to spend millions to get anywhere near realism. And even then it's
limited.

You are, as usual, wrong. The few thousand for the full Elite kit is
quite enough for flight training and there is an excellent EE Lightning
simulator at the Tangmere that has been built by the museum volunteers
on a shoe string.

Colin Bignell

In article , harryagain
scribeth thus

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2014 16:10, harryagain wrote:
...
Home flight simulators are bollix....

That rather depends what you understand by home flight simulator.

This one is used by flying clubs but is quite affordable:

http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Elite-I...ilot-Software-
86+8846

It is very realistic and allows programming of in-flight failures
to challenge the flying skills of the pilot, without risking life.

Of course, if you add all the bells and whistles, it does get a
little expensive:

http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Elite-I...-IFR-Training-
Package+1201


http://www.transair.co.uk/pp+Gill-Ai...y-Charged+3049

Humm... hope they last a while;!...



http://www.transair.co.uk/pp+Pilot-Parachutes+2647

Now thats something you don't but every day;!...

Colin Bignell

--
Tony Sayer

harryagain wrote:

"bagoako" wrote

I'm a new DIY-er and an avid flight simulation pilot.

Home flight simulators are bollix.
Go down to your local gliding club and ask about a trial lesson.

http://youtu.be/vpiKSpawixo?t=24m28s

On 28/04/2014 20:37, tony sayer wrote:
.....
http://www.transair.co.uk/pp+Gill-Ai...y-Charged+3049

Humm... hope they last a while;!...



http://www.transair.co.uk/pp+Pilot-Parachutes+2647

Now thats something you don't but every day;!...

The latest Transair catalogue was always something I looked forward to
getting through the letterbox.

Colin Bignell

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 22:14:25 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

harryagain wrote:

"bagoako" wrote

I'm a new DIY-er and an avid flight simulation pilot.

Home flight simulators are bollix.
Go down to your local gliding club and ask about a trial lesson.

http://youtu.be/vpiKSpawixo?t=24m28s

It's all rather tempting to think that harryagin's nom de plume was a
well considered choice (he certainly harries the this news group) with
his rather provocative, and often pointless, thread starters.
--
Regards, J B Good

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 28/04/2014 18:52, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2014 16:10, harryagain wrote:
...
Home flight simulators are bollix....

That rather depends what you understand by home flight simulator.

This one is used by flying clubs but is quite affordable:

http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Elite-I...ftware-86+8846

It is very realistic and allows programming of in-flight failures
to challenge the flying skills of the pilot, without risking life.

Of course, if you add all the bells and whistles, it does get a
little expensive:

http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Elite-I...g-Package+1201


WelI have done both. And tiddly little home flight simulators are bollix.
No flying skills are needed.

I have done both too. I used to use the one I posted a link to when I had
a Seneca III and couldn't get out to fly it. Being designed as a training
aid, it allowed me to practice recognising and responding to emergencies
without actually encountering them in real flight.

You have to spend millions to get anywhere near realism. And even then
it's
limited.

You are, as usual, wrong. The few thousand for the full Elite kit is quite
enough for flight training and there is an excellent EE Lightning
simulator at the Tangmere that has been built by the museum volunteers on
a shoe string.

Colin Bignell

Drivel, you don't experience the G forces or the full controls
co-ordination.
Or the weather or cockpit conditions.

On 30/04/2014 06:56, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 28/04/2014 18:52, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2014 16:10, harryagain wrote:
...
Home flight simulators are bollix....

That rather depends what you understand by home flight simulator.

This one is used by flying clubs but is quite affordable:

http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Elite-I...ftware-86+8846

It is very realistic and allows programming of in-flight failures
to challenge the flying skills of the pilot, without risking life.

Of course, if you add all the bells and whistles, it does get a
little expensive:

http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Elite-I...g-Package+1201


WelI have done both. And tiddly little home flight simulators are bollix.
No flying skills are needed.

I have done both too. I used to use the one I posted a link to when I had
a Seneca III and couldn't get out to fly it. Being designed as a training
aid, it allowed me to practice recognising and responding to emergencies
without actually encountering them in real flight.

You have to spend millions to get anywhere near realism. And even then
it's
limited.

You are, as usual, wrong. The few thousand for the full Elite kit is quite
enough for flight training and there is an excellent EE Lightning
simulator at the Tangmere that has been built by the museum volunteers on
a shoe string.


Drivel, you don't experience the G forces

If you are a good pilot, your passengers shouldn't notice any g forces
in flight. About the only thing I miss is the kick as you fly into your
own slipstream at the end of a good 360 degree turn.

or the full controls
co-ordination.
Or the weather

You obviously haven't been using the right simulators.

or cockpit conditions.

The simulator at Tangmere *is* an EE Lightning cockpit. In fact, I found
it to be a better simulation than the RAF's own EE Lightning simulator
which I tried in the 1960s. That cost a few million quid and took a team
of operators to run.

Colin Bignell