Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit nervous
about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to pay (at the
end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced tradesmen
on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont want to
start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had a spate of
time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back tonight'!
Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea and then get
no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture from some
academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this **** that he
must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it worth
getting the customer to sign the quote and terms etc?

Mitch

In article , Mitch
scribeth thus
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit nervous
about whether I'll get paid.



*
*
Normally they are enthusiastic to pay (at the
end) and often tip.
**

But is there any advice the more experienced tradesmen
on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont want to
start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had a spate of
time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back tonight'!
Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea and then get
no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture from some
academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this **** that he
must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it worth
getting the customer to sign the quote and terms etc?

Mitch



In my experience a lot of tradesmen don't brief the customer on what
they expect from them and that includes payment terms. Course thats a
real PITA making a 20 mile round trip for your money.

I believe that card readers are starting to come down in price 'tho we
don't take them as we deal just business to business, but these days
people are far more likely to have a credit and or debit card around
than a cheque book or a wedge of Harry Nash..

* course you will hear them moaning from time to time that they can't
find anyone to do the job;-!..
--
Tony Sayer

On 02/03/14 22:05, Mitch wrote:
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit nervous
about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to pay (at the
end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced tradesmen
on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont want to
start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had a spate of
time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back tonight'!
Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea and then get
no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture from some
academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this **** that he
must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it worth
getting the customer to sign the quote and terms etc?

Mitch




Simply be clear at the outset on the costs (or expected range if giving
an estimate rather than a quote) - and payment terms.

If you want stage payments, quote that up front.

As for payments - no small trader I know of takes cards - it's unheard
of. Either cash, cheque or BACS. BACS is quite well liked amongst
professional traders IME. Best to include BACS details on the quote
template and proof read it twice!

On 02/03/2014 22:59, Tim Watts wrote:
....
As for payments - no small trader I know of takes cards - it's unheard
of. Either cash, cheque or BACS. BACS is quite well liked amongst
professional traders IME. Best to include BACS details on the quote
template and proof read it twice!

Besides the card companies are getting uptight about security, even for
the smallest user, and the paperwork is a PITA.

Colin Bignell

Mitch wrote:
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type
jobs for others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am
always a bit nervous about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are
enthusiastic to pay (at the end) and often tip. But is there any
advice the more experienced tradesmen on here can give, or pointers
when to not take on a job? I dont want to start ****ing about with
card readers and the like. A friend had a spate of time wasting ****s
like 'my husband will pay you if you come back tonight'! Oh sure yes
love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea and then get no
reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture from some
academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this ****
that he must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being
paranoid? Is it worth getting the customer to sign the quote and
terms etc?

The best piece of advice I can give you is that if you are quoting to, lets
say, someone who is the colour of strong coffee, add at least 30% to the
price as this is usually the amount that you will not recieve at the end,
believe me - every single one of them over a thirty year period have said
and done the exact same things (it's as if they all knew each other and I'm
talking heart surgeons to binmen to architects), it's quite probably
ingrained from centuries of bartering and I'm not being racist but the ****s
don't want to part with their money.

Ask each customer *before you even give a price or start work* 'how will you
be paying as it affects the price', not for tax purposes, obv, and also if
it's a fair distance from yours, you add on twice what you think it will
cost you in fuel as 90% of the time they will have you back to pick up a
piece of sawdust you left near the lawn.

Avoid any job where the person wants something doing near a boundary and
they don't get on with the neighbours.

Avoid any job where the husband wants something doing that the wife doesn't,
it will never be started and if it is, never completed, and the prick will
take it out on you because the silly bitch has him by the nads, so you'll
get halfway through and he'll come up with some bull**** excuse to call the
whole deal off, often with dire consequences for the poor **** who's spent
four days digging out foundations for his new snooker room, which in all
likelyhood will end up a 'sunken Italian garden' with mirrors on the *******
floor and ****ty, plastic, armless ****ing statues covered in pigeon ****
everywhere.

On 02/03/2014 22:05, Mitch wrote:
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit nervous
about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to pay (at the
end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced tradesmen
on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont want to
start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had a spate of
time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back tonight'!
Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea and then get
no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture from some
academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this **** that he
must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it worth
getting the customer to sign the quote and terms etc?

The latter is not a new phenomena. Forty years ago I had a similar
occurrence despite having given a written fixed price quotation and got
the female archaeologist to sign a notice of satisfaction with the work
done. In the end I took her to court where she turned up and tried to
give the judge the same diatribe until he stopped her. In the end I had
to send the High Court bailiffs in to seize goods.


--
Peter Crosland

"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 02/03/2014 22:05, Mitch wrote:
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs
for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit
nervous
about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to pay (at
the
end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced
tradesmen
on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont want to
start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had a spate
of
time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back
tonight'!
Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea and then
get
no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture from some
academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this **** that
he
must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it
worth
getting the customer to sign the quote and terms etc?

The latter is not a new phenomena. Forty years ago I had a similar
occurrence despite having given a written fixed price quotation and got
the female archaeologist to sign a notice of satisfaction with the work
done. In the end I took her to court where she turned up and tried to give
the judge the same diatribe until he stopped her. In the end I had to send
the High Court bailiffs in to seize goods.


--
Peter Crosland

Thanks all for good advice. Yeah I encountered the coffee coloured situation
prior to retirement re.bad debts and had to take three lots to the small
claims court compared to only two whites. I thought it was just my bad luck
but maybe its their culture. Like the 'Statement of Satisfaction' idea, I'll
format one up just in case.

M

On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 08:40:47 -0000, Mitch wrote:

"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 02/03/2014 22:05, Mitch wrote:
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs
for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit
nervous
about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to pay (at
the
end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced
tradesmen
on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont want to
start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had a spate
of
time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back
tonight'!
Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea and then
get
no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture from some
academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this **** that
he
must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it
worth
getting the customer to sign the quote and terms etc?

The latter is not a new phenomena. Forty years ago I had a similar
occurrence despite having given a written fixed price quotation and got
the female archaeologist to sign a notice of satisfaction with the work
done. In the end I took her to court where she turned up and tried to give
the judge the same diatribe until he stopped her. In the end I had to send
the High Court bailiffs in to seize goods.


--
Peter Crosland

Thanks all for good advice. Yeah I encountered the coffee coloured situation
prior to retirement re.bad debts and had to take three lots to the small
claims court compared to only two whites. I thought it was just my bad luck
but maybe its their culture. Like the 'Statement of Satisfaction' idea, I'll
format one up just in case.

M

IM(limited)E it is their culture.
A girlfriend warned me about African women being interested only in money -
the GF was born and raise in tropical Africa! In fairness, I must say that
all of her Afro(-Carribean) friends and relatives were just the same, it
wasn't just her.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

"Mitch" wrote in message
...
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit
nervous about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to pay
(at the end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced
tradesmen on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont
want to start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had a
spate of time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back
tonight'! Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea
and then get no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture
from some academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this
**** that he must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being
paranoid? Is it worth getting the customer to sign the quote and terms
etc?

Mitch

Rule No 1 avoid pakis.
Rule No 2 avoid pakis
Rule No 3 avoid pakis
Rule No 4 avoid pakis

On 03/03/2014 10:27, Mr Pounder wrote:
"Mitch" wrote in message
...
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit
nervous about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to pay
(at the end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced
tradesmen on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont
want to start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had a
spate of time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back
tonight'! Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea
and then get no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture
from some academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this
**** that he must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being
paranoid? Is it worth getting the customer to sign the quote and terms
etc?

Mitch

Rule No 1 avoid pakis.
Rule No 2 avoid pakis
Rule No 3 avoid pakis
Rule No 4 avoid pakis




Uh oh

Well, the problem often is that you are perceived as not a tradesman any
more. I If you are not a company, then many feel you are not declaring it to
the tax man so can blackmail you into taking less or none. Best get some
money part way through the n job or a deposit etc.
After a while many develop a sixth sense for these kind of people.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Mitch" wrote in message
...
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit
nervous about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to pay
(at the end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced
tradesmen on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont
want to start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had a
spate of time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back
tonight'! Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea
and then get no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture
from some academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this
**** that he must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being
paranoid? Is it worth getting the customer to sign the quote and terms
etc?

Mitch

Phil L wrote:
Mitch wrote:
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type
jobs for others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am
always a bit nervous about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are
enthusiastic to pay (at the end) and often tip. But is there any
advice the more experienced tradesmen on here can give, or pointers
when to not take on a job? I dont want to start ****ing about with
card readers and the like. A friend had a spate of time wasting ****s
like 'my husband will pay you if you come back tonight'! Oh sure yes
love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea and then get no
reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture from some
academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this ****
that he must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being
paranoid? Is it worth getting the customer to sign the quote and
terms etc?

The best piece of advice I can give you is that if you are quoting to, lets
say, someone who is the colour of strong coffee, add at least 30% to the
price as this is usually the amount that you will not recieve at the end,
believe me - every single one of them over a thirty year period have said
and done the exact same things (it's as if they all knew each other and I'm
talking heart surgeons to binmen to architects), it's quite probably
ingrained from centuries of bartering and I'm not being racist but the ****s
don't want to part with their money.

Ask each customer *before you even give a price or start work* 'how will you
be paying as it affects the price', not for tax purposes, obv, and also if
it's a fair distance from yours, you add on twice what you think it will
cost you in fuel as 90% of the time they will have you back to pick up a
piece of sawdust you left near the lawn.

Avoid any job where the person wants something doing near a boundary and
they don't get on with the neighbours.

Avoid any job where the husband wants something doing that the wife doesn't,
it will never be started and if it is, never completed, and the prick will
take it out on you because the silly bitch has him by the nads, so you'll
get halfway through and he'll come up with some bull**** excuse to call the
whole deal off, often with dire consequences for the poor **** who's spent
four days digging out foundations for his new snooker room, which in all
likelyhood will end up a 'sunken Italian garden' with mirrors on the *******
floor and ****ty, plastic, armless ****ing statues covered in pigeon ****
everywhere.

.... and, never, never, do a job for Phil L.

--
Chris Green
·

On 03/03/2014 01:40, Phil L wrote:

The best piece of advice I can give you is that if you are quoting to, lets
say, someone who is the colour of strong coffee, add at least 30% to the
price as this is usually the amount that you will not recieve at the end,
believe me - every single one of them over a thirty year period have said
and done the exact same things (it's as if they all knew each other and I'm
talking heart surgeons to binmen to architects), it's quite probably
ingrained from centuries of bartering and I'm not being racist but the ****s
don't want to part with their money.

I can understand that some communities are more used to negotiating the
price than others. They may not be content unless they have got you to
reduce your price, so you may want to add on a percentage accordingly
when quoting.

I'm really surprised that there are communities where it is common
simply not to pay the agreed figure, though. Surely, you can protect
yourself by getting the customer to sign to accept the quote before
starting. Then, if they don't pay you, you bring court proceedings.

Mitch presented the following explanation :
Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it worth getting the customer to sign
the quote and terms etc?

Make it clear at the outset, that you do expect to be paid up in full
the instant the work is complete and that failure to do so will incur a
10% per month levy, plus £20 charge for each extra trip incurred to
collect the payment.

Print your terms at the bottom of every single quotation or estimate -
two copies and have them sign one copy. If push comes to shove, use the
courts.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 03/03/2014 11:10, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Mitch presented the following explanation :
Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it worth getting the customer
to sign the quote and terms etc?

Make it clear at the outset, that you do expect to be paid up in full
the instant the work is complete and that failure to do so will incur a
10% per month levy, plus £20 charge for each extra trip incurred to
collect the payment.

Print your terms at the bottom of every single quotation or estimate -
two copies and have them sign one copy. If push comes to shove, use the
courts.


Or save the ink, as it won't be enforceable?

In article ,
GB wrote:
I'm really surprised that there are communities where it is common
simply not to pay the agreed figure, though. Surely, you can protect
yourself by getting the customer to sign to accept the quote before
starting.

That would be an excellent idea. Of course, it would apply to both sides.


Then, if they don't pay you, you bring court proceedings.

The snag with those can be getting the judgment enforced.

--
*If your feet smell and your nose runs, you're built upside down.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , GB
scribeth thus
On 03/03/2014 01:40, Phil L wrote:

The best piece of advice I can give you is that if you are quoting to, lets
say, someone who is the colour of strong coffee, add at least 30% to the
price as this is usually the amount that you will not recieve at the end,
believe me - every single one of them over a thirty year period have said
and done the exact same things (it's as if they all knew each other and I'm
talking heart surgeons to binmen to architects), it's quite probably
ingrained from centuries of bartering and I'm not being racist but the ****s
don't want to part with their money.



I can understand that some communities are more used to negotiating the
price than others. They may not be content unless they have got you to
reduce your price, so you may want to add on a percentage accordingly
when quoting.


Like dealing with East Anglain grain baron's .. AKA Farmers;!....



--
Tony Sayer

On 03/03/2014 10:51, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well, the problem often is that you are perceived as not a tradesman any
more. I If you are not a company, then many feel you are not declaring it to
the tax man so can blackmail you into taking less or none. Best get some
money part way through the n job or a deposit etc.
After a while many develop a sixth sense for these kind of people.
Brian


Yes, I think you develop a "nose" after a while. TMH should have
something to say on the subject.

On 03/03/2014 11:17, GB wrote:
On 03/03/2014 11:10, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Mitch presented the following explanation :
Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it worth getting the customer
to sign the quote and terms etc?

Make it clear at the outset, that you do expect to be paid up in full
the instant the work is complete and that failure to do so will incur a
10% per month levy, plus £20 charge for each extra trip incurred to
collect the payment.

Print your terms at the bottom of every single quotation or estimate -
two copies and have them sign one copy. If push comes to shove, use the
courts.


Or save the ink, as it won't be enforceable?


? It forms written evidence of a contract, and given satisfactory
performance by the tradesman, it would be enforced by a court. The
stated conditions are fair, although they may lose the tradesman some
work he might otherwise regret taking on.

If it goes to court, he will also get legal costs awarded. Of course,
actually *collecting* may be a problem...
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

wrote:

... and, never, never, do a job for Phil L.

I do my own jobs thanks.
The OP asked for advice and I gave it, you don't have to like it but it's
all true as I have found out having been doing this kind of thing as a
living for 30 years+

GB wrote:
On 03/03/2014 01:40, Phil L wrote:

The best piece of advice I can give you is that if you are quoting
to, lets say, someone who is the colour of strong coffee, add at
least 30% to the price as this is usually the amount that you will
not recieve at the end, believe me - every single one of them over a
thirty year period have said and done the exact same things (it's as
if they all knew each other and I'm talking heart surgeons to binmen
to architects), it's quite probably ingrained from centuries of
bartering and I'm not being racist but the ****s don't want to part
with their money.

I can understand that some communities are more used to negotiating
the price than others. They may not be content unless they have got
you to reduce your price, so you may want to add on a percentage
accordingly when quoting.

I'm really surprised that there are communities where it is common
simply not to pay the agreed figure, though. Surely, you can protect
yourself by getting the customer to sign to accept the quote before
starting. Then, if they don't pay you, you bring court proceedings.

Yes, in an ideal world this would be fine, but often we are talking about
small amounts of money, often less than a few hundred, and no one is going
to arse around with courts and solicitors.
Getting them to sign a piece of paper is also a waste of time, they will pay
what's written on the paper, but the extras they add on along the way, or
simply make stuff up to get out of paying will still come out of your
pocket, which is why 30% is about right.
As an EG, if the price for renewing a fence is £1000, you tell them £1300,
because when the job is complete, they will argue for hours on end that
you've 'flattened the grass where you walked on it', or 'your van dripped
oil on the road tarmac and I'll have to pay to get it repaired', basically
any crap they can think of to get a few hundred knocked off, which is why
everyone adds on a premium when quoting

On Sunday, March 2, 2014 10:05:49 PM UTC, Mitch wrote:
A friend had a spate of
time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back tonight'!

The response to that is "I'll wait, but hourly charges will apply". And plonk arse on sofa.

And park the van across the drive so nothing else gets in or out.

Owain

On 03/03/2014 13:18, John Williamson wrote:
On 03/03/2014 11:17, GB wrote:
On 03/03/2014 11:10, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Mitch presented the following explanation :
Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it worth getting the customer
to sign the quote and terms etc?

Make it clear at the outset, that you do expect to be paid up in full
the instant the work is complete and that failure to do so will incur a
10% per month levy, plus £20 charge for each extra trip incurred to
collect the payment.

Print your terms at the bottom of every single quotation or estimate -
two copies and have them sign one copy. If push comes to shove, use the
courts.


Or save the ink, as it won't be enforceable?


? It forms written evidence of a contract, and given satisfactory
performance by the tradesman, it would be enforced by a court. The
stated conditions are fair, although they may lose the tradesman some
work he might otherwise regret taking on.

No, it falls foul of the UTICCR 99. Also, it's a penalty.

"Mitch" wrote in message
...
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit
nervous about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to pay
(at the end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced
tradesmen on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont
want to start ****ing about with card readers and the like.



A friend had a spate of time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if
you come back tonight'!

Imagine the disappointment if HE was to say "my wife will pay you if you
come back tonight" and later that night you find out that SHE is pre decimal
currency.

--
Adam

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2014 10:27, Mr Pounder wrote:
"Mitch" wrote in message
...
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs
for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit
nervous about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to
pay
(at the end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced
tradesmen on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I
dont
want to start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had
a
spate of time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come
back
tonight'! Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea
and then get no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture
from some academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this
**** that he must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being
paranoid? Is it worth getting the customer to sign the quote and terms
etc?

Mitch

Rule No 1 avoid pakis.
Rule No 2 avoid pakis
Rule No 3 avoid pakis
Rule No 4 avoid pakis




Uh oh

Problem?

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:

As for payments - no small trader I know of takes cards - it's unheard
of.


I know of a few, and it's far from unheard of. A friend of mine is picking
up a lot of business (he does small computer jobs - installing printers
etc for people) due to being able to take cards.

Things like

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/HC065ZM

or https://www.izettle.com/gb

I think he uses the latter. Another friend does photography work and
uses similar.

People want to pay on card. The company takes 3% of the total. They just
add 5% to the bill to cover it. Amazing the number of people who take
them up on that offer. I guess they want the credit.

Darren

On 03/03/2014 10:27, Mr Pounder wrote:
"Mitch" wrote in message
...
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit
nervous about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to pay
(at the end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced
tradesmen on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont
want to start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had a
spate of time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back
tonight'! Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea
and then get no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture
from some academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this
**** that he must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being
paranoid? Is it worth getting the customer to sign the quote and terms
etc?

Mitch

Rule No 1 avoid pakis.
Rule No 2 avoid pakis
Rule No 3 avoid pakis
Rule No 4 avoid pakis




I don't have any trouble with Asians.

However, if your last name is Adebayo, Oni, Adeyemi, Okafor, Chukwu or
Okonkwo - I am unlikely to return your call.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 02/03/2014 22:05, Mitch wrote:
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit nervous
about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to pay (at the
end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced tradesmen
on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont want to
start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had a spate of
time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back tonight'!
Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea and then get
no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture from some
academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this **** that he
must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it worth
getting the customer to sign the quote and terms etc?

Mitch


You need to make your payment terms crystal clear, then you won't have
any problems.

Bank transfer is the way forward.

Some ethnic groups will try to beat you down on price, I simply add a
bit on, then let them negotiate me down.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 02/03/2014 22:59, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/03/14 22:05, Mitch wrote:
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs
for
others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit
nervous
about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to pay (at
the
end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced
tradesmen
on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont want to
start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had a
spate of
time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back
tonight'!
Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea and
then get
no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture from some
academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this ****
that he
must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it
worth
getting the customer to sign the quote and terms etc?

Mitch




Simply be clear at the outset on the costs (or expected range if giving
an estimate rather than a quote) - and payment terms.

If you want stage payments, quote that up front.

As for payments - no small trader I know of takes cards - it's unheard
of. Either cash, cheque or BACS. BACS is quite well liked amongst
professional traders IME. Best to include BACS details on the quote
template and proof read it twice!

I've had some business cards printed with my bank details on.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 03/03/2014 01:40, Phil L wrote:
Mitch wrote:
Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type
jobs for others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am
always a bit nervous about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are
enthusiastic to pay (at the end) and often tip. But is there any
advice the more experienced tradesmen on here can give, or pointers
when to not take on a job? I dont want to start ****ing about with
card readers and the like. A friend had a spate of time wasting ****s
like 'my husband will pay you if you come back tonight'! Oh sure yes
love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea and then get no
reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture from some
academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this ****
that he must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being
paranoid? Is it worth getting the customer to sign the quote and
terms etc?

The best piece of advice I can give you is that if you are quoting to, lets
say, someone who is the colour of strong coffee, add at least 30% to the
price as this is usually the amount that you will not recieve at the end,
believe me - every single one of them over a thirty year period have said
and done the exact same things (it's as if they all knew each other and I'm
talking heart surgeons to binmen to architects), it's quite probably
ingrained from centuries of bartering and I'm not being racist but the ****s
don't want to part with their money.

Most recent example of this was a lady who wanted a very small job done.
I wanted £40.

I quoted £50, she launched into this sob story about only having just
moved in, she had two children to feed and had just spent most of her
money on food for them. She only had £30 left in her purse.

I said OK, I'll do it for £40. She eventually agreed. When it came to
paying she produced 2 x £20 notes from her purse.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 03/03/2014 11:08, GB wrote:
On 03/03/2014 01:40, Phil L wrote:

The best piece of advice I can give you is that if you are quoting to,
lets
say, someone who is the colour of strong coffee, add at least 30% to the
price as this is usually the amount that you will not recieve at the end,
believe me - every single one of them over a thirty year period have said
and done the exact same things (it's as if they all knew each other
and I'm
talking heart surgeons to binmen to architects), it's quite probably
ingrained from centuries of bartering and I'm not being racist but the
****s
don't want to part with their money.

I can understand that some communities are more used to negotiating the
price than others. They may not be content unless they have got you to
reduce your price, so you may want to add on a percentage accordingly
when quoting.

I'm really surprised that there are communities where it is common
simply not to pay the agreed figure, though. Surely, you can protect
yourself by getting the customer to sign to accept the quote before
starting. Then, if they don't pay you, you bring court proceedings.

It's literally a way of life, especially with Nigerians.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 21:00:58 +0000 (UTC), D.M.Chapman wrote:

People want to pay on card. The company takes 3% of the total. They
just add 5% to the bill to cover it.

CostCo also offer a mobile card terminal.

Amazing the number of people who take them up on that offer. I guess
they want the credit.

Or simply don't have a requirement to carry cash. I have 25p in cash
ATM, pay for everything via credit card that I pay off every month.
About the only time I have cash (max £30) is when I'm working and
will be getting lunch from a chippy...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 03/03/2014 21:00, D.M.Chapman wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:

As for payments - no small trader I know of takes cards - it's unheard
of.


I know of a few, and it's far from unheard of. A friend of mine is picking
up a lot of business (he does small computer jobs - installing printers
etc for people) due to being able to take cards.

Things like

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/HC065ZM

or https://www.izettle.com/gb

I think he uses the latter. Another friend does photography work and
uses similar.

People want to pay on card. The company takes 3% of the total. They just
add 5% to the bill to cover it....

If, by that you mean they make the extra 5% charge only to people paying
by card, that is illegal. The Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges)
Regulations 2012 prohibit adding a surcharge that exceeds the cost of
the card transaction.

Colin Bignell

On Monday, March 3, 2014 9:42:49 PM UTC, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 02/03/2014 22:05, Mitch wrote:

Now I'm retired and getting bored I've started doing odd diy type jobs for

others of ever bigger proportions (fences etc.) and am always a bit nervous

about whether I'll get paid. Normally they are enthusiastic to pay (at the

end) and often tip. But is there any advice the more experienced tradesmen

on here can give, or pointers when to not take on a job? I dont want to

start ****ing about with card readers and the like. A friend had a spate of

time wasting ****s like 'my husband will pay you if you come back tonight'!

Oh sure yes love do a twenty mile round trip tonight after tea and then get

no reply at the door. Another (gas safe) mate got a lecture from some

academic **** that because his day rate was above that of this **** that he

must reduce the day rate! Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it worth

getting the customer to sign the quote and terms etc?



Mitch





You need to make your payment terms crystal clear, then you won't have

any problems.



Bank transfer is the way forward.



Some ethnic groups will try to beat you down on price, I simply add a

bit on, then let them negotiate me down.



--

Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Many years ago a friend had a small body shop. He agreed a price with a customer, £7 to memory te repair a damaged wing. (It was a looong time ago.)

When the job was completed and the customer came to collect the car he tried to re-negotiate the price. My friend took a hammer and re-inflicted the original damage and told him to f**k off into the night.

Nightjar wrote:
If, by that you mean they make the extra 5% charge only to people paying
by card, that is illegal. The Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges)
Regulations 2012 prohibit adding a surcharge that exceeds the cost of
the card transaction.

The Regulations allow traders to recover the costs associated with the particular method of payment, including monthly merchant fees and costs of card terminals etc, as well as the actual transaction fee. Traders can average those costs across transactions to arrive at the fee they charge consumers.

And small businesses are exempt until June 2014.

Owain

On 04/03/2014 12:23, wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
If, by that you mean they make the extra 5% charge only to people paying
by card, that is illegal. The Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges)
Regulations 2012 prohibit adding a surcharge that exceeds the cost of
the card transaction.

The Regulations allow traders to recover the costs associated with the particular method of payment, including monthly merchant fees and costs of card terminals etc, as well as the actual transaction fee. Traders can average those costs across transactions to arrive at the fee they charge consumers.

Even if monthly merchant fees and card terminal fees are charged (I only
pay more than the transaction fees if they don't exceed a monthly
minimum amount) it is unlikely they will amount to the more than 2%
mark-up that seems to be applied here.

And small businesses are exempt until June 2014.

To quote guidance from Trading Standards:

'The specific definitions of a micro-business and a new business within
the Regulations are quite complex and legal advice should be sought if
you believe you may be exempt from the Regulations until 12 June 2014.'

Colin Bignell

On 04/03/2014 09:23, Nightjar wrote:
On 03/03/2014 21:00, D.M.Chapman wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:

As for payments - no small trader I know of takes cards - it's unheard
of.


I know of a few, and it's far from unheard of. A friend of mine is
picking
up a lot of business (he does small computer jobs - installing printers
etc for people) due to being able to take cards.

Things like

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/HC065ZM

or https://www.izettle.com/gb

I think he uses the latter. Another friend does photography work and
uses similar.

People want to pay on card. The company takes 3% of the total. They just
add 5% to the bill to cover it....

If, by that you mean they make the extra 5% charge only to people paying
by card, that is illegal. The Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges)
Regulations 2012 prohibit adding a surcharge that exceeds the cost of
the card transaction.

But who cares?



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 04/03/2014 19:46, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 04/03/2014 09:23, Nightjar wrote:
On 03/03/2014 21:00, D.M.Chapman wrote:
.....
People want to pay on card. The company takes 3% of the total. They
just
add 5% to the bill to cover it....

If, by that you mean they make the extra 5% charge only to people paying
by card, that is illegal. The Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges)
Regulations 2012 prohibit adding a surcharge that exceeds the cost of
the card transaction.

But who cares?

Trading Standards and the people who report things to them, assuming TS
don't just pick it up in a routine trial purchase.

Colin Bignell

On 04/03/2014 09:23, Nightjar wrote:
On 03/03/2014 21:00, D.M.Chapman wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:

As for payments - no small trader I know of takes cards - it's unheard
of.


I know of a few, and it's far from unheard of. A friend of mine is
picking
up a lot of business (he does small computer jobs - installing printers
etc for people) due to being able to take cards.

Things like

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/HC065ZM

or https://www.izettle.com/gb

I think he uses the latter. Another friend does photography work and
uses similar.

People want to pay on card. The company takes 3% of the total. They just
add 5% to the bill to cover it....

If, by that you mean they make the extra 5% charge only to people paying
by card, that is illegal. The Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges)
Regulations 2012 prohibit adding a surcharge that exceeds the cost of
the card transaction.

It would make more sense to add it across the board. It then allows a
little wiggle room for those asking for discounts for cash etc.



--
Cheers,

John.

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On 03/03/2014 15:32, GB wrote:
On 03/03/2014 13:18, John Williamson wrote:
On 03/03/2014 11:17, GB wrote:
On 03/03/2014 11:10, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Mitch presented the following explanation :
Is this rare or am I being paranoid? Is it worth getting the customer
to sign the quote and terms etc?

Make it clear at the outset, that you do expect to be paid up in full
the instant the work is complete and that failure to do so will incur a
10% per month levy, plus £20 charge for each extra trip incurred to
collect the payment.

Print your terms at the bottom of every single quotation or estimate -
two copies and have them sign one copy. If push comes to shove, use the
courts.


Or save the ink, as it won't be enforceable?


? It forms written evidence of a contract, and given satisfactory
performance by the tradesman, it would be enforced by a court. The
stated conditions are fair, although they may lose the tradesman some
work he might otherwise regret taking on.

No, it falls foul of the UTICCR 99. Also, it's a penalty.

A better option to to specify a higher price with payment terms of (say)
7 days from completion, and then offer a discount for immediate payment.


--
Cheers,

John.

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