|
Inflation rates
On 03/01/14 15:10, Adrian wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 14:48:26 +0000, bert wrote: Which, if worded right, could give us a way out of the EU if Scotland votes for independence, as the Kingdom of Great Britain would no longer exist, as it would involve repealing the Act of Union of 1707. It's just a theoretical possibility, though. Interesting point. I've been looking for an alternative definition to Wikis but haven't found anything yet. There's is mostly Ireland orientated. I don't think it holds any water, as "UK-minus-Scotland" would be the direct successor state to the current UK, in the same way as the unified Germany was the direct successor state to the old West Germany - just going the other way in size. Anyway, gawd help us if the UK is ever daft enough to try to leave the EU. Gawd help us if its daft enough to stay. Its like chaining your lifeboat to the Titanic. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
Inflation rates
On 03/01/2014 15:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/14 15:10, Adrian wrote: On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 14:48:26 +0000, bert wrote: Which, if worded right, could give us a way out of the EU if Scotland votes for independence, as the Kingdom of Great Britain would no longer exist, as it would involve repealing the Act of Union of 1707. It's just a theoretical possibility, though. Interesting point. I've been looking for an alternative definition to Wikis but haven't found anything yet. There's is mostly Ireland orientated. I don't think it holds any water, as "UK-minus-Scotland" would be the direct successor state to the current UK, in the same way as the unified Germany was the direct successor state to the old West Germany - just going the other way in size. Anyway, gawd help us if the UK is ever daft enough to try to leave the EU. Gawd help us if its daft enough to stay. Its like chaining your lifeboat to the Titanic. Totally agree. We could then get back to making our own rules and not be dictated to. No one I know has said they feel European. I certainly don't. |
Inflation rates
On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 15:54:07 +0000, Bod wrote:
Totally agree. We could then get back to making our own rules and not be dictated to. Mmm. Just like Norway and Switzerland, eh? No one I know has said they feel European. I certainly don't. Would somebody show this idiot a map, please? |
Inflation rates
John Williamson wrote:
Which, if worded right, could give us a way out of the EU if Scotland votes for independence, as the Kingdom of Great Britain would no longer exist, as it would involve repealing the Act of Union of 1707. The Kingdom of Great Britain ceased to exist in 1800 when it was replaced by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, which was replaced in 1925 by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. jgh |
Inflation rates
On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 17:25:14 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
No one I know has said they feel European. I certainly don't. Would somebody show this idiot a map, please? What has a map to do with anything. We're next to France. D'ye feel French? I don't. Here's a clue... The UK is not "next to" Europe. |
Inflation rates
On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 18:15:08 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
No one I know has said they feel European. I certainly don't. Would somebody show this idiot a map, please? What has a map to do with anything. We're next to France. D'ye feel French? I don't. Here's a clue... The UK is not "next to" Europe. Even less reason to feel "European" then Umm, no, not really. |
Inflation rates
On 03/01/2014 17:45, Adrian wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 17:25:14 +0000, Tim Streater wrote: No one I know has said they feel European. I certainly don't. Would somebody show this idiot a map, please? What has a map to do with anything. We're next to France. D'ye feel French? I don't. Here's a clue... The UK is not "next to" Europe. Of course not: There are fifty internationally recognized sovereign states in Europe, of which 44 have their capital city within Europe. Germany, France, Great Britain, Sweden, Scandinavia, are a few of the major European countries. Germany shares borders with nine countries, the highest number of any other country. Germany borders Switzerland, Poland, Netherlands, Luxembourg, France, Denmark, Czech Republic, Belgium, and Austria. |
Inflation rates
On 03/01/2014 18:45, Bod wrote:
On 03/01/2014 17:45, Adrian wrote: On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 17:25:14 +0000, Tim Streater wrote: No one I know has said they feel European. I certainly don't. Would somebody show this idiot a map, please? What has a map to do with anything. We're next to France. D'ye feel French? I don't. Here's a clue... The UK is not "next to" Europe. Of course not: There are fifty internationally recognized sovereign states in Europe, of which 44 have their capital city within Europe. Germany, France, Great Britain, Sweden, Scandinavia, are a few of the major European countries. Germany shares borders with nine countries, the highest number of any other country. Germany borders Switzerland, Poland, Netherlands, Luxembourg, France, Denmark, Czech Republic, Belgium, and Austria. Facts about Europe Area10,180,000 sq. km. Countries46 Largest Country by AreaRussia Largest Country by PopulationRussia Largest City by PopulationLondon, UK Highest PointPik Khan-Tengri 7010 meters, 22999 feet Lowest PointVatican City 75 meters, 246 feet Major ReligionsChristians, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism Major LanguagesEnglish, French, Italian, Spanish, German, Russian http://www.mapsofworld.com/europe/ |
Inflation rates
On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 18:45:14 +0000, Bod wrote:
No one I know has said they feel European. I certainly don't. Would somebody show this idiot a map, please? What has a map to do with anything. We're next to France. D'ye feel French? I don't. Here's a clue... The UK is not "next to" Europe. Of course not: .... Great Britain... (is one)... of the major European countries Thank you for agreeing with me, Bod. |
Inflation rates
Adrian wrote
Rod Speed wrote Scotland is in the EU because it's a part of the UK, which is an EU member state. Duh. The UK will still be an EU member state if Scotland leaves. It'll just be a bit smaller. Duh. So, taking those two into account, you'd agree that post-independence Scotland would form a new country, additional to the UK, and - however they become members - their membership would take the EU to 29 member states, yes? Irrelevant to the discussion you snipped where bert claimed that Spain gets any say on whether Scotland gets to JOIN the EU. It's clearly already in the EU. The new, not existed for four hundred years, country of Scotland would not be an EU member state, You dont know that. Given the choice between Salmond's hand-waving "It'll happen because I want it to", and the EU's long and involved explanations of exactly why it won't - can't - happen, I know who I believe. The eurozone has has just as long and involved explanations on why countrys cant do what they like deficit wise and expect to get bailed out when the **** hits the fan, and when it comes to the crunch, that turns out to be just more eurobull****. |
Inflation rates
On 03/01/2014 18:51, Bod wrote:
Facts about Europe Area10,180,000 sq. km. Countries46 Largest Country by AreaRussia Largest Country by PopulationRussia Largest City by PopulationLondon, UK Highest PointPik Khan-Tengri 7010 meters, 22999 feet Lowest PointVatican City 75 meters, 246 feet Major ReligionsChristians, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism Major LanguagesEnglish, French, Italian, Spanish, German, Russian http://www.mapsofworld.com/europe/ Just looking at that, there are at least two errors which cast doubt on the accuracy of the whole website. The City of London (Capital of the UK) has the *smallest* resident population of any city in Europe, at less than 10,000, but even if they're talking about Metropolitan areas, Paris has about 4 million more inhabitants than Greater London. The lowest point in Europe is *not* the Vatican City at 75 metres above Sea Level, it's in the Dutch polders and is a few metres *below* sea level. It's not even the lowest capital city, with London at a few matres above sea level and Amsterdam at an average of 3 metres *below* sea level. By the way, Pik Khan Tengri (Highest point) isn't even *near* the border of any country that could be considered to be close to Europe. It's not even the highest point in the world.... Either that site's been hacked, or North Americans *are* that ignorant of everything outside their borders. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
Inflation rates
In message , Bod
writes Facts about Europe Lowest PointVatican City 75 meters, 246 feet Really? Might come as a bit of a surprise to some of those living in Eastern England (and the Netherlands amongst other places). Adrian -- To Reply : replace "diy" with "news" and reverse the domain If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter, DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block posters coming from web portals due to perceieved SPAM or inaneness. For a better method of access, please see: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet |
Inflation rates
Vir Campestris wrote
Rod Speed wrote Vir Campestris wrote Was it too hard to read through that list to get to the end, where you'll find the UK? Which includes Scotland too. fx raises eyes to sky But the whole problem is that Scotland is considering leaving the UK... Which means that list is completely irrelevant. And snip FFS. No thanks, you have snipped so aggressively that it isnt at all clear what was being discussed now. |
Inflation rates
bert ] wrote
Rod Speed wrote Vir Campestris wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote Adrian wrote If they want to join the EU - and they've said they do - then they have to join the Euro (and Schengen) as soon as they meet the criteria. It's a condition of any new country joining. But not necessarily with a country that was part of the EU already before those conditions applied. I think the Eu have already clarified that and the answer is an independent Scotland would have to apply from scratch. But it remains to be seen if that is just an ambit claim or not. They have already tried that sort of ambit claim with the rules about what you have to do to stay part of the eurozone and when it has come to the crunch when some countrys have just ignored that on deficits particularly, have had to just shrug and carry on regardless and bail them out when it comes to the crunch. They don't want to set a precedent for other regions. They already have. Greenland chose to leave and there wasn't a damned thing that the EU could do about that when they did. Leaving is not quite the same as joining They wouldn't be joining because they are already in the EU. which I believe requires unanimous vote Not in the case of an area that is already in the EU. and Spain will not agree to Scotland being given automatic membership of the EU They get no say on that. because of their own local problems. Have you any authoritative source for your statements Don't need one. Scotland is obviously already in the EU. or are they just your own presumptions? No presumption involved in the statement that Scotland is already in the EU. BTW Scotland is not a member country of the EU, the UK is. Its still already in the EU. So just your own speculation No, no speculation whatever about the FACT that Scotland is already in the EU. Here's a link for you listing the member countries. I don't actually see Scotland there. http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/member-countries/ You don't see Britain there either. They are however clearly in the EU anyway. Was it too hard to read through that list to get to the end, where you'll find the UK? Which includes Scotland too. Only as part of the UK, not as an independent entity. Irrelevant to the fact that Scotland is clearly in the EU already. |
Inflation rates
On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 06:11:37 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
Scotland is in the EU because it's a part of the UK, which is an EU member state. Duh. The UK will still be an EU member state if Scotland leaves. It'll just be a bit smaller. Duh. So, taking those two into account, you'd agree that post-independence Scotland would form a new country, additional to the UK, and - however they become members - their membership would take the EU to 29 member states, yes? Irrelevant to the discussion you snipped where bert claimed that Spain gets any say on whether Scotland gets to JOIN the EU. I snipped it because I agree that it's irrelevant. Just answer the question, please, and ignore Spain completely for a moment. Do you agree with those two statements, or do you disagree with them? It's clearly already in the EU Well spotted. Nobody's denying that Scotland, as a region of the UK, is currently part of the EU and has been since the mid '70s. |
Inflation rates
bert ] wrote
Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote Adrian wrote Bod wrote Salmond still wants to keep GB Sterling It doesn't make sense to set up a whole new currency for a short interim period. Anybody and everybody is free to use any other country's "unofficially", if they don't mind having zero input into the economy of that other country. Montenegro uses the ...and if they join the Euro currency, hmm; good luck If they want to join the EU - and they've said they do - then they have to join the Euro (and Schengen) as soon as they meet the criteria. It's a condition of any new country joining. But not necessarily with a country that was part of the EU already before those conditions applied. I think the Eu have already clarified that and the answer is an independent Scotland would have to apply from scratch. But it remains to be seen if that is just an ambit claim or not. They have already tried that sort of ambit claim with the rules about what you have to do to stay part of the eurozone and when it has come to the crunch when some countrys have just ignored that on deficits particularly, have had to just shrug and carry on regardless and bail them out when it comes to the crunch. They don't want to set a precedent for other regions. They already have. Greenland chose to leave and there wasn't a damned thing that the EU could do about that when they did. Leaving is not quite the same as joining They wouldn't be joining because they are already in the EU. which I believe requires unanimous vote Not in the case of an area that is already in the EU. and Spain will not agree to Scotland being given automatic membership of the EU They get no say on that. because of their own local problems. Have you any authoritative source for your statements Don't need one. Scotland is obviously already in the EU. or are they just your own presumptions? No presumption involved in the statement that Scotland is already in the EU. BTW Scotland is not a member country of the EU, the UK is. Its still already in the EU. So just your own speculation No, no speculation whatever about the FACT that Scotland is already in the EU. Here's a link for you listing the member countries. I don't actually see Scotland there. http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/member-countries/ You don't see Britain there either. They are however clearly in the EU anyway. What do you consider as "Britain" as opposed to "UK" or "Great Britain" Doesn't matter what I consider, what matters is what the EU does. The EU member is the United Kingdom. Not Scotland not England not Britain not Great Britain. And both England and Scotland are clearly in the EU, even when that list does not name them explicitly. Geographically yes. They are not however member states. Irrelevant to the fact that Scotland and England are already in the EU. They do not magically become member states just because they decide to leave the United Kingdom. We'll see... I think this discussion has reached that point where you go round in circles to hide the fact that you cannot come to accept that you are wrong. Its actually reached the point when you go round and round in circles when your nose is rubbed in the FACT that Scotland is already in the EU. |
Inflation rates
bert ] wrote
Rod Speed wrote Adrian wrote Rod Speed wrote Here's a link for you listing the member countries. I don't actually see Scotland there. http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/member-countries/ You don't see Britain there either. They are however clearly in the EU anyway. What do you consider as "Britain" as opposed to "UK" or "Great Britain" Doesn't matter what I consider, what matters is what the EU does. What matters is reality... No, what matters is whether Scotland is currently part of the EU or not as far as Spain getting any veto right on Scotland joining the EU is concerned. The EU member is the United Kingdom. Not Scotland not England not Britain not Great Britain. And both England and Scotland are clearly in the EU, even when that list does not name them explicitly. Yorkshire is in the EU, too. So's East Anglia. So're any number of subdivisions and regions forming the UK. Precisely. So Spain is completely irrelevant. But it'd be a very very very long list if every single French Departement or German Lander was listed separately. Precisely, that list is completely irrelevant. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the only "country" involved here. Currently. Precisely, that list is completely irrelevant. There might soon be a country called Scotland, too, for the first time since the start of the 18th century. And Spain gets no say on whether it remains part of the EU. There is no need for anyone to have any say because it won't be part of the EU at the point of leaving the UK. You don't know that. Scotland will not be part of the EU . You don't know that. It will have to apply for membership You don't know that. when Spain will have a vote along with all the other member states You don't know that. and Spain has indicated it is unlikely to support such an application You don't know that there will be any need for any such application. which I believe requires unanimity. |
Inflation rates
On 03/01/2014 19:04, Adrian wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 18:45:14 +0000, Bod wrote: No one I know has said they feel European. I certainly don't. Would somebody show this idiot a map, please? What has a map to do with anything. We're next to France. D'ye feel French? I don't. Here's a clue... The UK is not "next to" Europe. Of course not: ... Great Britain... (is one)... of the major European countries Thank you for agreeing with me, Bod. Jeez! there's something sadly wrong with your brain, Adrian. I only said "I don't FEEL european" and you go into one. |
Inflation rates
On 03/01/2014 19:15, John Williamson wrote:
On 03/01/2014 18:51, Bod wrote: Facts about Europe Area10,180,000 sq. km. Countries46 Largest Country by AreaRussia Largest Country by PopulationRussia Largest City by PopulationLondon, UK Highest PointPik Khan-Tengri 7010 meters, 22999 feet Lowest PointVatican City 75 meters, 246 feet Major ReligionsChristians, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism Major LanguagesEnglish, French, Italian, Spanish, German, Russian http://www.mapsofworld.com/europe/ Just looking at that, there are at least two errors which cast doubt on the accuracy of the whole website. The City of London (Capital of the UK) has the *smallest* resident population of any city in Europe, at less than 10,000, but even if they're talking about Metropolitan areas, Paris has about 4 million more inhabitants than Greater London. The lowest point in Europe is *not* the Vatican City at 75 metres above Sea Level, it's in the Dutch polders and is a few metres *below* sea level. It's not even the lowest capital city, with London at a few matres above sea level and Amsterdam at an average of 3 metres *below* sea level. By the way, Pik Khan Tengri (Highest point) isn't even *near* the border of any country that could be considered to be close to Europe. It's not even the highest point in the world.... Either that site's been hacked, or North Americans *are* that ignorant of everything outside their borders. I suspect the latter :-) |
Inflation rates
In message , Rod Speed
writes bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote Adrian wrote Rod Speed wrote Here's a link for you listing the member countries. I don't actually see Scotland there. http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/member-countries/ You don't see Britain there either. They are however clearly in the EU anyway. What do you consider as "Britain" as opposed to "UK" or "Great Britain" Doesn't matter what I consider, what matters is what the EU does. What matters is reality... No, what matters is whether Scotland is currently part of the EU or not as far as Spain getting any veto right on Scotland joining the EU is concerned. The EU member is the United Kingdom. Not Scotland not England not Britain not Great Britain. And both England and Scotland are clearly in the EU, even when that list does not name them explicitly. Yorkshire is in the EU, too. So's East Anglia. So're any number of subdivisions and regions forming the UK. Precisely. So Spain is completely irrelevant. But it'd be a very very very long list if every single French Departement or German Lander was listed separately. Precisely, that list is completely irrelevant. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the only "country" involved here. Currently. Precisely, that list is completely irrelevant. There might soon be a country called Scotland, too, for the first time since the start of the 18th century. And Spain gets no say on whether it remains part of the EU. There is no need for anyone to have any say because it won't be part of the EU at the point of leaving the UK. You don't know that. Oh yes I do. Scotland will not be part of the EU . You don't know that. Oh yes I do. It will have to apply for membership You don't know that. Oh yes I do when Spain will have a vote along with all the other member states You don't know that. Oh yes I do and Spain has indicated it is unlikely to support such an application You don't know that there will be any need for any such application. Oh yes I do which I believe requires unanimity. And you don't know any different. -- bert |
Inflation rates
In message , Rod Speed
writes bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote Adrian wrote Bod wrote Salmond still wants to keep GB Sterling It doesn't make sense to set up a whole new currency for a short interim period. Anybody and everybody is free to use any other country's "unofficially", if they don't mind having zero input into the economy of that other country. Montenegro uses the ...and if they join the Euro currency, hmm; good luck If they want to join the EU - and they've said they do - then they have to join the Euro (and Schengen) as soon as they meet the criteria. It's a condition of any new country joining. But not necessarily with a country that was part of the EU already before those conditions applied. I think the Eu have already clarified that and the answer is an independent Scotland would have to apply from scratch. But it remains to be seen if that is just an ambit claim or not. They have already tried that sort of ambit claim with the rules about what you have to do to stay part of the eurozone and when it has come to the crunch when some countrys have just ignored that on deficits particularly, have had to just shrug and carry on regardless and bail them out when it comes to the They don't want to set a precedent for other regions. They already have. Greenland chose to leave and there wasn't a damned thing that the EU could do about that when they did. Leaving is not quite the same as joining They wouldn't be joining because they are already in the EU. which I believe requires unanimous vote Not in the case of an area that is already in the EU. and Spain will not agree to Scotland being given automatic membership of the EU They get no say on that. because of their own local problems. Have you any authoritative source for your statements Don't need one. Scotland is obviously already in the EU. or are they just your own presumptions? No presumption involved in the statement that Scotland is already in the EU. BTW Scotland is not a member country of the EU, the UK is. Its still already in the EU. So just your own speculation No, no speculation whatever about the FACT that Scotland is already in the EU. Here's a link for you listing the member countries. I don't actually see Scotland there. http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/member-countries/ You don't see Britain there either. They are however clearly in the EU anyway. What do you consider as "Britain" as opposed to "UK" or "Great Britain" Doesn't matter what I consider, what matters is what the EU does. The EU member is the United Kingdom. Not Scotland not England not Britain not Great Britain. And both England and Scotland are clearly in the EU, even when that list does not name them explicitly. Geographically yes. They are not however member states. Irrelevant to the fact that Scotland and England are already in the EU. They do not magically become member states just because they decide to leave the United Kingdom. We'll see... I think this discussion has reached that point where you go round in circles to hide the fact that you cannot come to accept that you are wrong. Its actually reached the point when you go round and round in circles when your nose is rubbed in the FACT that Scotland is already in the EU. Which bit of "not member states" do you not understand? -- bert |
Inflation rates
In message , Adrian
writes On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 14:48:26 +0000, bert wrote: Which, if worded right, could give us a way out of the EU if Scotland votes for independence, as the Kingdom of Great Britain would no longer exist, as it would involve repealing the Act of Union of 1707. It's just a theoretical possibility, though. Interesting point. I've been looking for an alternative definition to Wikis but haven't found anything yet. There's is mostly Ireland orientated. I don't think it holds any water, as "UK-minus-Scotland" would be the direct successor state to the current UK, in the same way as the unified Germany was the direct successor state to the old West Germany - just going the other way in size. Good thinking Anyway, gawd help us if the UK is ever daft enough to try to leave the EU. That's a very different discussion and I wouldn't want to let Rod off the hook by digressing down that road. -- bert |
Inflation rates
On 03/01/2014 18:45, Bod wrote:
On 03/01/2014 17:45, Adrian wrote: On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 17:25:14 +0000, Tim Streater wrote: No one I know has said they feel European. I certainly don't. Would somebody show this idiot a map, please? What has a map to do with anything. We're next to France. D'ye feel French? I don't. Here's a clue... The UK is not "next to" Europe. Of course not: There are fifty internationally recognized sovereign states in Europe, of which 44 have their capital city within Europe. Germany, France, Great Britain, Sweden, Scandinavia, are a few of the major European countries. Germany shares borders with nine countries, the highest number of any other country. Germany borders Switzerland, Poland, Netherlands, Luxembourg, France, Denmark, Czech Republic, Belgium, and Austria. Does that counting include the France-Canada border? -- Rod |
Inflation rates
Adrian wrote
Rod Speed wrote Scotland is in the EU because it's a part of the UK, which is an EU member state. Duh. The UK will still be an EU member state if Scotland leaves. It'll just be a bit smaller. Duh. So, taking those two into account, you'd agree that post-independence Scotland would form a new country, additional to the UK, and - however they become members - their membership would take the EU to 29 member states, yes? Irrelevant to the discussion you snipped where bert claimed that Spain gets any say on whether Scotland gets to JOIN the EU. I snipped it because I agree that it's irrelevant. You should have said that. Just answer the question, please, and ignore Spain completely for a moment. No thanks, when spain is completely irrelevant, the claim that Scotland would have to apply to be part of the EU has blown up in your face and covered you with black stuff when it is clearly in the EU already. Do you agree with those two statements, That's what Duh means, stupid. or do you disagree with them? It's clearly already in the EU Well spotted. Nobody's denying that Scotland, as a region of the UK, is currently part of the EU and has been since the mid '70s. But plenty are claiming with no basis what so ever that Scotland would have to apply to be in the EU and that since that has to be agreed unanimously, Spain would refuse. |
Inflation rates
bert ] wrote
Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote Adrian wrote Rod Speed wrote Here's a link for you listing the member countries. I don't actually see Scotland there. http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/member-countries/ You don't see Britain there either. They are however clearly in the EU anyway. What do you consider as "Britain" as opposed to "UK" or "Great Britain" Doesn't matter what I consider, what matters is what the EU does. What matters is reality... No, what matters is whether Scotland is currently part of the EU or not as far as Spain getting any veto right on Scotland joining the EU is concerned. The EU member is the United Kingdom. Not Scotland not England not Britain not Great Britain. And both England and Scotland are clearly in the EU, even when that list does not name them explicitly. Yorkshire is in the EU, too. So's East Anglia. So're any number of subdivisions and regions forming the UK. Precisely. So Spain is completely irrelevant. But it'd be a very very very long list if every single French Departement or German Lander was listed separately. Precisely, that list is completely irrelevant. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the only "country" involved here. Currently. Precisely, that list is completely irrelevant. There might soon be a country called Scotland, too, for the first time since the start of the 18th century. And Spain gets no say on whether it remains part of the EU. There is no need for anyone to have any say because it won't be part of the EU at the point of leaving the UK. You don't know that. Oh yes I do. Oh no you don't. That is pure speculation on your part because that has not happened before, and what happens in that situation is not spelt out in the Treaty. Scotland will not be part of the EU . You don't know that. Oh yes I do. Oh no you don't. That is pure speculation on your part because that has not happened before, and what happens in that situation is not spelt out in the Treaty. It will have to apply for membership You don't know that. Oh yes I do Oh no you don't. That is pure speculation on your part because that has not happened before, and what happens in that situation is not spelt out in the Treaty. when Spain will have a vote along with all the other member states You don't know that. Oh yes I do Oh no you don't. That is pure speculation on your part because that has not happened before, and what happens in that situation is not spelt out in the Treaty. and Spain has indicated it is unlikely to support such an application You don't know that there will be any need for any such application. Oh yes I do Oh no you don't. That is pure speculation on your part because that has not happened before, and what happens in that situation is not spelt out in the Treaty. which I believe requires unanimity. And you don't know any different. That bit is irrelevant if Scotland does not need to apply because it is already in the EU. |
Inflation rates
"bert" ] wrote in message ... In message , Rod Speed writes bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote bert ] wrote Rod Speed wrote Adrian wrote Bod wrote Salmond still wants to keep GB Sterling It doesn't make sense to set up a whole new currency for a short interim period. Anybody and everybody is free to use any other country's "unofficially", if they don't mind having zero input into the economy of that other country. Montenegro uses the ...and if they join the Euro currency, hmm; good luck If they want to join the EU - and they've said they do - then they have to join the Euro (and Schengen) as soon as they meet the criteria. It's a condition of any new country joining. But not necessarily with a country that was part of the EU already before those conditions applied. I think the Eu have already clarified that and the answer is an independent Scotland would have to apply from scratch. But it remains to be seen if that is just an ambit claim or not. They have already tried that sort of ambit claim with the rules about what you have to do to stay part of the eurozone and when it has come to the crunch when some countrys have just ignored that on deficits particularly, have had to just shrug and carry on regardless and bail them out when it comes to the They don't want to set a precedent for other regions. They already have. Greenland chose to leave and there wasn't a damned thing that the EU could do about that when they did. Leaving is not quite the same as joining They wouldn't be joining because they are already in the EU. which I believe requires unanimous vote Not in the case of an area that is already in the EU. and Spain will not agree to Scotland being given automatic membership of the EU They get no say on that. because of their own local problems. Have you any authoritative source for your statements Don't need one. Scotland is obviously already in the EU. or are they just your own presumptions? No presumption involved in the statement that Scotland is already in the EU. BTW Scotland is not a member country of the EU, the UK is. Its still already in the EU. So just your own speculation No, no speculation whatever about the FACT that Scotland is already in the EU. Here's a link for you listing the member countries. I don't actually see Scotland there. http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/member-countries/ You don't see Britain there either. They are however clearly in the EU anyway. What do you consider as "Britain" as opposed to "UK" or "Great Britain" Doesn't matter what I consider, what matters is what the EU does. The EU member is the United Kingdom. Not Scotland not England not Britain not Great Britain. And both England and Scotland are clearly in the EU, even when that list does not name them explicitly. Geographically yes. They are not however member states. Irrelevant to the fact that Scotland and England are already in the EU. They do not magically become member states just because they decide to leave the United Kingdom. We'll see... I think this discussion has reached that point where you go round in circles to hide the fact that you cannot come to accept that you are wrong. Its actually reached the point when you go round and round in circles when your nose is rubbed in the FACT that Scotland is already in the EU. Which bit of "not member states" do you not understand? Which bit of "already in the EU" do you not understand ? |
Inflation rates
"bert" ] wrote in message ... In message , Adrian writes On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 14:48:26 +0000, bert wrote: Which, if worded right, could give us a way out of the EU if Scotland votes for independence, as the Kingdom of Great Britain would no longer exist, as it would involve repealing the Act of Union of 1707. It's just a theoretical possibility, though. Interesting point. I've been looking for an alternative definition to Wikis but haven't found anything yet. There's is mostly Ireland orientated. I don't think it holds any water, as "UK-minus-Scotland" would be the direct successor state to the current UK, in the same way as the unified Germany was the direct successor state to the old West Germany - just going the other way in size. Good thinking Anyway, gawd help us if the UK is ever daft enough to try to leave the EU. That's a very different discussion and I wouldn't want to let Rod off the hook by digressing down that road. I aint on any hook. |
Inflation rates
On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 19:15:26 +0000 John Williamson wrote :
The City of London (Capital of the UK) has the *smallest* resident population of any city in Europe, at less than 10,000, but even if they're talking about Metropolitan areas, Paris has about 4 million more inhabitants than Greater London. Though if Greater London was defined as the contiguous built up area rather than the London Boroughs it would have a much larger population, e.g lots of Elmbridge - Thames Ditton, Molesey etc is just an extension of RBK and LBRuT -- Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on', Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com |
Inflation rates
On 27/12/2013 16:28, harryagain wrote:
"Jim Newman" wrote in message ... On 22/12/2013 09:44, harryagain wrote: The government of this country needs only concern itself with taxpayers of this country. So, by your logic, no schools and no health care for children then. You really are monumentally stupid aren't you! They are the children of taxpayers. ****ferbrains. FIFY |
Inflation rates
On 03/01/14 19:15, John Williamson wrote:
The City of London (Capital of the UK) has the *smallest* resident population of any city in Europe, at less than 10,000, but even if they're talking about Metropolitan areas, Paris has about 4 million more inhabitants than Greater London. Think it's stretching definitions to call the "City of London" the capital considering that Parliament and major Goverment offices are in the City of Westminster. -- djc |
Inflation rates
Bod wrote
Adrian wrote Rod Speed wrote It's all about the election in two years Yes, but they won't be electing Labour any time soon, you watch. Indeed. 2015 is absolutely their last stand, unless the Scottish referendum says "no". They will say no to independence, IMHO. Dont see why they would. They have nothing to lose, they can still do whatever they are doing now, even outside Scotland, and they get to charge whatever they like for the last of the North Sea gas etc. I can't think of even a single example where independence has been put to the vote where that vote hasn't got up. Can't see why that would be any different for Scotland. |
Inflation rates
On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 10:19:54 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
Scotland is in the EU because it's a part of the UK, which is an EU member state. Duh. The UK will still be an EU member state if Scotland leaves. It'll just be a bit smaller. Duh. So, taking those two into account, you'd agree that post-independence Scotland would form a new country, additional to the UK, and - however they become members - their membership would take the EU to 29 member states, yes? Just answer the question, please, and ignore Spain completely for a moment. No thanks, when spain is completely irrelevant, the claim that Scotland would have to apply to be part of the EU has blown up in your face and covered you with black stuff when it is clearly in the EU already. Do you agree with those two statements, That's what Duh means, stupid. I mean the two I made. So, taking those two into account, you'd agree that post-independence Scotland would form a new country, additional to the UK, and - however they become members - their membership would take the EU to 29 member states, yes? ^ These two. So...? or do you disagree with them? waits It's clearly already in the EU Well spotted. Nobody's denying that Scotland, as a region of the UK, is currently part of the EU and has been since the mid '70s. But plenty are claiming with no basis what so ever that Scotland would have to apply to be in the EU TBF, everybody but Salmond is saying that. Remind you of Blackadder's Sea Captain? and that since that has to be agreed unanimously, Spain would refuse. Which isn't what Spain have said. |
Inflation rates
On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 00:33:14 +0000, djc wrote:
The City of London (Capital of the UK) has the *smallest* resident population of any city in Europe, at less than 10,000, but even if they're talking about Metropolitan areas, Paris has about 4 million more inhabitants than Greater London. Quite an achievement, really, seeing as Paris has 2.2m inhabitants. London has nearly half as many French nationals living in it as Paris does. Think it's stretching definitions to call the "City of London" the capital considering that Parliament and major Goverment offices are in the City of Westminster. Quite. It's amazing how many people don't realise that the City of London isn't the same as the city of London. |
Inflation rates
On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:02:54 +0000, Adrian wrote:
The City of London (Capital of the UK) has the *smallest* resident population of any city in Europe, at less than 10,000, but even if they're talking about Metropolitan areas, Paris has about 4 million more inhabitants than Greater London. Quite an achievement, really, seeing as Paris has 2.2m inhabitants. London has nearly half as many French nationals living in it as Paris does. Think it's stretching definitions to call the "City of London" the capital considering that Parliament and major Goverment offices are in the City of Westminster. Quite. It's amazing how many people don't realise that the City of London isn't the same as the city of London. Oh, and... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Largest_cities_of_the_European_Union_by_population _within_city_limits |
Inflation rates
On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 09:05:14 +0000 (UTC) Adrian wrote :
Oh, and... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Largest_cities_of_the_European_Union_by_population _within_city_limits Interesting that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larger_Urban_Zones answers my earlier question and reports London as the largest city in Europe. For all the Daily Mail hysteria, it's far from the most densely populated though. -- Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on', Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com |
Inflation rates
On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 20:44:55 +1100, Tony Bryer wrote:
Oh, and... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Largest_cities_of_the_European_Union_by_population _within_city_limits Interesting that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larger_Urban_Zones answers my earlier question and reports London as the largest city in Europe. and with Paris very close behind. Paris is an odd one - the urban sprawl is large, but "Paris" itself (the Arondissements) is very strictly boundaried, and not actually that big. London's different, in that the boroughs still contain a good portion of the sprawl - the City/city confuzzlement is another thing entirely. For all the Daily Mail hysteria, it's far from the most densely populated though. Shush your mouth. The Wail? Wrong about something? Heresy! |
Inflation rates
On 03/01/2014 19:15, John Williamson wrote:
The City of London (Capital of the UK) has the *smallest* resident population of any city in Europe, at less than 10,000, but even if they're talking about Metropolitan areas, Paris has about 4 million more inhabitants than Greater London. Was that supposed to read "any CAPITAL city in Europe"? Otherwise we are into St Davids, Ripon, etc. -- Rod |
Inflation rates
Adrian wrote
Rod Speed wrote Scotland is in the EU because it's a part of the UK, which is an EU member state. Duh. The UK will still be an EU member state if Scotland leaves. It'll just be a bit smaller. Duh. So, taking those two into account, you'd agree that post-independence Scotland would form a new country, additional to the UK, and - however they become members - their membership would take the EU to 29 member states, yes? Just answer the question, please, and ignore Spain completely for a moment. No thanks, when spain is completely irrelevant, the claim that Scotland would have to apply to be part of the EU has blown up in your face and covered you with black stuff when it is clearly in the EU already. Do you agree with those two statements, That's what Duh means, stupid. I mean the two I made. You made the two that I responded to with duh. So, taking those two into account, you'd agree that post-independence Scotland would form a new country, additional to the UK, and - however they become members - their membership would take the EU to 29 member states, yes? ^ These two. So...? Yes, both of those are true. But irrelevant to what is being discussed, whether there is any problem for an independent Scotland STAYING in the EU when it becomes independent. or do you disagree with them? waits It's clearly already in the EU Well spotted. Nobody's denying that Scotland, as a region of the UK, is currently part of the EU and has been since the mid '70s. But plenty are claiming with no basis what so ever that Scotland would have to apply to be in the EU TBF, everybody but Salmond is saying that. That is not correct. The European Commission has said nothing about it at all. Remind you of Blackadder's Sea Captain? No, because everyone that matters except Salmond isnt saying that. and that since that has to be agreed unanimously, Spain would refuse. Which isn't what Spain have said. Indeed. |
Inflation rates
On 04/01/2014 00:33, djc wrote:
On 03/01/14 19:15, John Williamson wrote: The City of London (Capital of the UK) has the *smallest* resident population of any city in Europe, at less than 10,000, but even if they're talking about Metropolitan areas, Paris has about 4 million more inhabitants than Greater London. Think it's stretching definitions to call the "City of London" the capital considering that Parliament and major Goverment offices are in the City of Westminster. No more than calling Amsterdam the capital of the Netherlands when all the offices are in Den Haag. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
Inflation rates
On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 00:29:38 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
So, taking those two into account, you'd agree that post-independence Scotland would form a new country, additional to the UK, and - however they become members - their membership would take the EU to 29 member states, yes? Yes, both of those are true. OK, great. But irrelevant to what is being discussed Well, no, not really. Fairly central to it. Because the "UK-Scotland" would be the direct successor state to the UK, so retaining the UK's membership, whilst Scotland would be a new state, seeking new membership. whether there is any problem for an independent Scotland STAYING in the EU when it becomes independent. But it wouldn't be staying, since it wouldn't have previously existed. You've just agreed Scotland'd be a new country, and that it'd be adding to the EU's membership. But plenty are claiming with no basis what so ever that Scotland would have to apply to be in the EU TBF, everybody but Salmond is saying that. That is not correct. The European Commission has said nothing about it at all. As an entity and explicitly? No. But prominent officials dropping unsubtle hints? Very much so - and not just recently. Barroso, in late 2012, was one of the first, and virtually all since have agreed. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:12 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter