I had a replacement toilet installed 3 years ago - it's a 'bog
standard' (sorry!) contract style job with no name from Graham's Plumbing
Supplies (a Jewson company). It's dual flush with delayed fill. For some
reason the fill is often not delayed so the water starts running into the
cistern before the flush valve has fallen to the closed position, so the
incoming water goes straight down the pan, managing to keep the flush
valve from closing. Before I strip it all down to investigate has anyone
here come across this problem and if so what's the cure? From my research
the valves appear to be Altech - A207 Fill Valve and B208 Flush Valve.
How is the delay achieved?

I see Toolstation sell a delayed fill valve for £9.98 so it's no hardship
to replace it if necessary.

TOJ.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:25:07 GMT, The Other John
wrote:

I had a replacement toilet installed 3 years ago - it's a 'bog
standard' (sorry!) contract style job with no name from Graham's Plumbing
Supplies (a Jewson company). It's dual flush with delayed fill. For some
reason the fill is often not delayed so the water starts running into the
cistern before the flush valve has fallen to the closed position, so the
incoming water goes straight down the pan, managing to keep the flush
valve from closing. Before I strip it all down to investigate has anyone
here come across this problem and if so what's the cure? From my research
the valves appear to be Altech - A207 Fill Valve and B208 Flush Valve.
How is the delay achieved?

I see Toolstation sell a delayed fill valve for £9.98 so it's no hardship
to replace it if necessary.

TOJ.


IINAP but I suspect the problem may lie with the flush valve rather
than the fill valve. Some of the cheap ones are just a flap without
any syphonic action at all. Post a picture of the innards of the
cistern.



--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:52:41 +0000, Graham. wrote:


IINAP but I suspect the problem may lie with the flush valve rather than
the fill valve. Some of the cheap ones are just a flap without any
syphonic action at all. Post a picture of the innards of the cistern.

I'm not an expert with Dropbox, see if this works:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4neq8yiswsje0ut/6THPjFQpl_

TOJ.

"The Other John" wrote in message
news
I had a replacement toilet installed 3 years ago - it's a 'bog
standard' (sorry!) contract style job with no name from Graham's Plumbing
Supplies (a Jewson company). It's dual flush with delayed fill. For some
reason the fill is often not delayed so the water starts running into the
cistern before the flush valve has fallen to the closed position, so the
incoming water goes straight down the pan, managing to keep the flush
valve from closing. Before I strip it all down to investigate has anyone
here come across this problem and if so what's the cure? From my research
the valves appear to be Altech - A207 Fill Valve and B208 Flush Valve.
How is the delay achieved?

I see Toolstation sell a delayed fill valve for £9.98 so it's no hardship
to replace it if necessary.


Get rid of the stupid, cheap and nasty (fail open) flap valve and install a
syphon. (Fails "closed")
Especially if you have a water meter.

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 07:31:58 +0000, harryagain wrote:

Get rid of the stupid, cheap and nasty (fail open) flap valve and
install a syphon. (Fails "closed")
Especially if you have a water meter.

Can a syphon do dual flush? We do have a meter which is why we have dual
flush.

It doesn't look like a flap valve, the blue cylinder in the middle of the
photos rides up and down to flush. It seems to me that both valves, fill
and flush, have gone faulty at the same time. The fill doesn't always
delay and/or the blue cylinder sticks in the up position. Thinking it
might be limescale deposits I put a couple of squirts of kettle descaler
in the cistern overnight but it doesn't seem to have made any difference,
probably too diluted in a cistern full of water, also it has to be boiled
when using in a kettle. Another possibility is the cable operating the
flush valve could be sticking.

I shall probably end up replacing both valves just to be on the safe side
unless someone here comes up with the solution.

TOJ.

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:02:50 GMT, The Other John wrote:

Get rid of the stupid, cheap and nasty (fail open) flap valve and
install a syphon. (Fails "closed")

+1

Can a syphon do dual flush?

I'd expect all those available these days to have that feature but
check just in case. It's normally a plug at/near the top of the
lifting piston that you remove to enable dual flush.

If you want short flush you let go the handle straight away. The
piston drops and when the water level in the cistern falls to that of
the hole, air enters the syphon and stops the flow.

Long flush you hold the handle, the piston blocks the hole so air
can't enter and the cistern fully empties.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:26:13 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:02:50 GMT, The Other John wrote:

Get rid of the stupid, cheap and nasty (fail open) flap valve and
install a syphon. (Fails "closed")

+1

Can a syphon do dual flush?

I'd expect all those available these days to have that feature but
check just in case. It's normally a plug at/near the top of the
lifting piston that you remove to enable dual flush.

If you want short flush you let go the handle straight away. The
piston drops and when the water level in the cistern falls to that of
the hole, air enters the syphon and stops the flow.

Long flush you hold the handle, the piston blocks the hole so air
can't enter and the cistern fully empties.

Confession time, my first push button flush "Pacific" worked arse
upwards as it were.

Short press full flush, long press half flush, but we had it 10 years
before any of us noticed.



--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 07:31:58 -0000, "harryagain"
wrote:


"The Other John" wrote in message
news
I had a replacement toilet installed 3 years ago - it's a 'bog
standard' (sorry!) contract style job with no name from Graham's Plumbing
Supplies (a Jewson company). It's dual flush with delayed fill. For some
reason the fill is often not delayed so the water starts running into the
cistern before the flush valve has fallen to the closed position, so the
incoming water goes straight down the pan, managing to keep the flush
valve from closing. Before I strip it all down to investigate has anyone
here come across this problem and if so what's the cure? From my research
the valves appear to be Altech - A207 Fill Valve and B208 Flush Valve.
How is the delay achieved?

I see Toolstation sell a delayed fill valve for £9.98 so it's no hardship
to replace it if necessary.


Get rid of the stupid, cheap and nasty (fail open) flap valve and install a
syphon. (Fails "closed")
Especially if you have a water meter.


That is a syphon, isn't it?


I have put Fluidmaster syphons and fill valves in both my toilets and
have had no problems with them.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:26:13 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

If you want short flush you let go the handle straight away. The piston
drops and when the water level in the cistern falls to that of the hole,
air enters the syphon and stops the flow.

Long flush you hold the handle, the piston blocks the hole so air can't
enter and the cistern fully empties.

This cistern can't accommodate a handle, it's flushed by a split button in
the lid.

TOJ.

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:52:41 -0000, Graham. wrote:

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:25:07 GMT, The Other John
wrote:

I had a replacement toilet installed 3 years ago - it's a 'bog
standard' (sorry!) contract style job with no name from Graham's Plumbing
Supplies (a Jewson company). It's dual flush with delayed fill. For some
reason the fill is often not delayed so the water starts running into the
cistern before the flush valve has fallen to the closed position, so the
incoming water goes straight down the pan, managing to keep the flush
valve from closing. Before I strip it all down to investigate has anyone
here come across this problem and if so what's the cure? From my research
the valves appear to be Altech - A207 Fill Valve and B208 Flush Valve..
How is the delay achieved?

I see Toolstation sell a delayed fill valve for £9.98 so it's no hardship
to replace it if necessary.

TOJ.


IINAP but I suspect the problem may lie with the flush valve rather
than the fill valve. Some of the cheap ones are just a flap without
any syphonic action at all. Post a picture of the innards of the
cistern.

Why do toilets have syphons anyway? I thought the idea of a syphon was to take water up higher, then back down again. That's not required with a toilet, as the cistern is directly above the bowl.

--
A great way to lose weight is to eat naked in front of a mirror. Restaurants will almost always throw you out before you can eat too much.

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 10:29:15 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger"
wrote:

---------------------------8
Why do toilets have syphons anyway? I thought the idea of a syphon was to take water up higher, then back down again. That's not required with a toilet, as the cistern is directly above the bowl.

A siphon also prevents leakage. Can be important if you are on a water
meter.

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 15:05:47 -0000, Apellation Controlee wrote:

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 10:29:15 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger"
wrote:

---------------------------8
Why do toilets have syphons anyway? I thought the idea of a syphon was to take water up higher, then back down again. That's not required with a toilet, as the cistern is directly above the bowl.

A siphon also prevents leakage. Can be important if you are on a water
meter.

I see, although when they were invented we were more civilised and didn't have water meters.

--
"O'Ryan," asked the druggist, "did that mudpack I gave you improve your wife's appearance?"
"It did, surely," replied O'Ryan, "but it keeps fallin' off!"

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 15:13:06 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger"
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 15:05:47 -0000, Apellation Controlee wrote:

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 10:29:15 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger"
wrote:

---------------------------8
Why do toilets have syphons anyway? I thought the idea of a syphon was to take water up higher, then back down again. That's not required with a toilet, as the cistern is directly above the bowl.

A siphon also prevents leakage. Can be important if you are on a water
meter.

I see, although when they were invented we were more civilised and didn't have water meters.

Indeed.

On 17/11/2013 15:13, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 15:05:47 -0000, Apellation Controlee
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 10:29:15 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger"
wrote:

---------------------------8
Why do toilets have syphons anyway? I thought the idea of a syphon
was to take water up higher, then back down again. That's not
required with a toilet, as the cistern is directly above the bowl.

A siphon also prevents leakage. Can be important if you are on a water
meter.

I see, although when they were invented we were more civilised and
didn't have water meters.


They were invented because the owners of the original loos would prop
the handles up and run the water 24x7 and the system couldn't cope.

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 16:07:56 -0000, dennis@home wrote:

On 17/11/2013 15:13, Gefreiter Krueger wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 15:05:47 -0000, Apellation Controlee
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 10:29:15 -0000, "Gefreiter Krueger"
wrote:

---------------------------8
Why do toilets have syphons anyway? I thought the idea of a syphon
was to take water up higher, then back down again. That's not
required with a toilet, as the cistern is directly above the bowl.

A siphon also prevents leakage. Can be important if you are on a water
meter.

I see, although when they were invented we were more civilised and
didn't have water meters.


They were invented because the owners of the original loos would prop
the handles up and run the water 24x7 and the system couldn't cope.

Why on earth would someone do that? If you want to deliberately waste water, you just leave the sink/bath taps on.

--
Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the creator of human intelligence.