This came round on my facebook feed this morning:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""
15.5% of U.K. electricity made from renewables during a 3 month period!
That's a fair bit and about the amount that is made from nuclear power.

http://ilienergy.com/2013/10/uk-rene...eration-soars/
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""

Hmmm, sez I, that's not what gridwatch shows.

To which someone responded:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""
Gridwatch shows a snapshot of energy supply and distribution in near
realtime (I recall it is updated every 5 minutes) so the contribution of
wind and other renewables can vary considerably from day to day. It is
also limited to showing the flows of energy within the Balancing
Mechanism of the National Grid and the larger power stations that are
directly connected to the grid.

Smaller stations such as single wind turbines, small hydro installations
and household PV installation are usually not connected directly to the
National Grid and are termed "Embedded". They sell the energy directly to
the utility companies so the data does not appear separately as part of
the Balancing Mechanism.

The report mentioned in the article posted by Chris is from the
Department of Environment & Climate Change RESTATS data, which collects
data directly from most of the renewable installations and so will have
far more detailed information.

RESTATS still has its own web site at https://restats.decc.gov.uk/

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""

So looks as if gridwatch is not[1] gospel :-/



[1] or is, depending on your view of the authenticity of those
documents ;-)

--
John Stumbles

Women always generalise

On 07/10/13 17:55, John Stumbles wrote:
This came round on my facebook feed this morning:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""
15.5% of U.K. electricity made from renewables during a 3 month period!
That's a fair bit and about the amount that is made from nuclear power.

http://ilienergy.com/2013/10/uk-rene...eration-soars/
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""

Hmmm, sez I, that's not what gridwatch shows.

To which someone responded:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""
Gridwatch shows a snapshot of energy supply and distribution in near
realtime (I recall it is updated every 5 minutes) so the contribution of
wind and other renewables can vary considerably from day to day. It is
also limited to showing the flows of energy within the Balancing
Mechanism of the National Grid and the larger power stations that are
directly connected to the grid.

Smaller stations such as single wind turbines, small hydro installations
and household PV installation are usually not connected directly to the
National Grid and are termed "Embedded". They sell the energy directly to
the utility companies so the data does not appear separately as part of
the Balancing Mechanism.

The report mentioned in the article posted by Chris is from the
Department of Environment & Climate Change RESTATS data, which collects
data directly from most of the renewable installations and so will have
far more detailed information.

RESTATS still has its own web site at https://restats.decc.gov.uk/

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""

So looks as if gridwatch is not[1] gospel :-/



[1] or is, depending on your view of the authenticity of those
documents ;-)


into their count of renewables are added in an ESTIMATE (based on
unrealistic capacity factors) or all the little wind plant that isn't
centrally metered, plus one quarter of Drax burning wood, plus all the
hydro and probably the pumped storage. Plus estimates of all the solar
and estimates of all the methane digesters.

I stress that these are largely estimates.

Although one quarter of drax is a nearly a gigawatt, which is seriously
significant.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Monday 07 October 2013 18:49 The Natural Philosopher wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 07/10/13 17:55, John Stumbles wrote:
This came round on my facebook feed this morning:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""
15.5% of U.K. electricity made from renewables during a 3 month period!
That's a fair bit and about the amount that is made from nuclear power.

http://ilienergy.com/2013/10/uk-rene...eration-soars/
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""

Hmmm, sez I, that's not what gridwatch shows.

To which someone responded:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""
Gridwatch shows a snapshot of energy supply and distribution in near
realtime (I recall it is updated every 5 minutes) so the contribution of
wind and other renewables can vary considerably from day to day. It is
also limited to showing the flows of energy within the Balancing
Mechanism of the National Grid and the larger power stations that are
directly connected to the grid.

Smaller stations such as single wind turbines, small hydro installations
and household PV installation are usually not connected directly to the
National Grid and are termed "Embedded". They sell the energy directly to
the utility companies so the data does not appear separately as part of
the Balancing Mechanism.

The report mentioned in the article posted by Chris is from the
Department of Environment & Climate Change RESTATS data, which collects
data directly from most of the renewable installations and so will have
far more detailed information.

RESTATS still has its own web site at https://restats.decc.gov.uk/

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""

So looks as if gridwatch is not[1] gospel :-/



[1] or is, depending on your view of the authenticity of those
documents ;-)


into their count of renewables are added in an ESTIMATE (based on
unrealistic capacity factors) or all the little wind plant that isn't
centrally metered, plus one quarter of Drax burning wood, plus all the
hydro and probably the


pumped storage.

That would be very very naughty even by their standards!


Plus estimates of all the solar
and estimates of all the methane digesters.

I stress that these are largely estimates.


Of course - fantasy figures for a fantasy policy...



Although one quarter of drax is a nearly a gigawatt, which is seriously
significant.



--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Mon, 07 Oct 2013 18:49:37 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

into their count of renewables are added in an ESTIMATE (based on
unrealistic capacity factors) or all the little wind plant that isn't
centrally metered, plus one quarter of Drax burning wood, plus all the
hydro and probably the pumped storage.

What: Drax, hydro and pumped storage are embedded, not on the grid?!

--
John Stumbles

I forgot to take my amnesia medicine again

On 07/10/13 22:53, John Stumbles wrote:
On Mon, 07 Oct 2013 18:49:37 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

into their count of renewables are added in an ESTIMATE (based on
unrealistic capacity factors) or all the little wind plant that isn't
centrally metered, plus one quarter of Drax burning wood, plus all the
hydro and probably the pumped storage.

What: Drax, hydro and pumped storage are embedded, not on the grid?!

yes and no

Everything is ON the grid, but BM reports I think only monitors the high
voltage backbone - stuff connected at lower voltages isn't directly metered.

Drax is metered but only as a whole. BMreports has it all as 'coal'; but
one of 4 boilers is 100% wood.

Hydro and pumped are metered more or less but some hydro is not
centrally metered.

about 30% of wind is not centrally metered
No solar is centrally metered.

Very little pure biomass is centrally metered.


The problem is that half the time the outputs are calculated from FIT
and ROC paymnents, or are simply estimates. And estimates based on
massively optimistic capacity factors. You would be surprised to learn
the the average small embedded windfarm produces far more electricity
per unit capacity than the ones with meters on, according to their ROC
payments!


I have tried to match these up to get sensible figures and cross check
against the metered stuff but guess what, The numbers don't add up.

IN short what seems to be happening is a massive infill of missing data
with optimistc estimates to make renewable energy seem more important
than it actually is, plus what looks like some pure fraud here and there.




--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

Surely though the actual load on the system will reduce if small local
sources take some of the load at a given time.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
This came round on my facebook feed this morning:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""
15.5% of U.K. electricity made from renewables during a 3 month period!
That's a fair bit and about the amount that is made from nuclear power.

http://ilienergy.com/2013/10/uk-rene...eration-soars/
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""

Hmmm, sez I, that's not what gridwatch shows.

To which someone responded:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""
Gridwatch shows a snapshot of energy supply and distribution in near
realtime (I recall it is updated every 5 minutes) so the contribution of
wind and other renewables can vary considerably from day to day. It is
also limited to showing the flows of energy within the Balancing
Mechanism of the National Grid and the larger power stations that are
directly connected to the grid.

Smaller stations such as single wind turbines, small hydro installations
and household PV installation are usually not connected directly to the
National Grid and are termed "Embedded". They sell the energy directly to
the utility companies so the data does not appear separately as part of
the Balancing Mechanism.

The report mentioned in the article posted by Chris is from the
Department of Environment & Climate Change RESTATS data, which collects
data directly from most of the renewable installations and so will have
far more detailed information.

RESTATS still has its own web site at https://restats.decc.gov.uk/

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""

So looks as if gridwatch is not[1] gospel :-/



[1] or is, depending on your view of the authenticity of those
documents ;-)

--
John Stumbles

Women always generalise