OT. - HS2
 

Bit about HS2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-500-000.html

Sounds a bit bollix to me. After all, we built a much bigger motorway
network without all this palaver.

OT. - HS2
 

harryagain scribbled...


Bit about HS2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-500-000.html

Sounds a bit bollix to me. After all, we built a much bigger motorway
network without all this palaver.


We've already got an HS1 and that was built without a problem.

It's another daily heil ****storm about **** all. Give it a while and
they'll swap sides. Sooner that ****ing rag goes bust the better.

OT. - HS2
 

On 18/08/2013 17:45, harryagain wrote:
Bit about HS2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-500-000.html

Sounds a bit bollix to me. After all, we built a much bigger motorway
network without all this palaver.


Times change, Do you think that the Public Enquiry into the building of
Heathrow Airport would last just 45 minutes if it were done today?

Colin Bignell

OT. - HS2
 

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 18/08/2013 17:45, harryagain wrote:
Bit about HS2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-500-000.html

Sounds a bit bollix to me. After all, we built a much bigger motorway
network without all this palaver.


Times change, Do you think that the Public Enquiry into the building of
Heathrow Airport would last just 45 minutes if it were done today?

Colin Bignell

Too many lawyers about today raking in the cash on these enquiries.

OT. - HS2
 

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 19:47:50 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

Instead of building HS2, they should spend the dosh on other
infrastructure improvements.

Is this the story where the current 46 bn cost is likely to grow by
30 bn beacuse of the NIMBYs and Greens getting the route changed.
Well stuff 'em I say unless they are prepared to pay for the changes
they want.

--
Cheers
Dave.

OT. - HS2
 

Tim Streater scribbled...


In article
sting.com,
Artic wrote:

harryagain scribbled...

Bit about HS2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...esearch-reveal
s-REAL-impact-HS2-link-affect-500-000.html

Sounds a bit bollix to me. After all, we built a much bigger motorway
network without all this palaver.

We've already got an HS1 and that was built without a problem.

I don't call £100 million per mile "without a problem".


"...M74 extension is about to open in Glasgow at a cost of £692m, which
works out at £138.4m per mile..."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13924687



Course, it's nice for me to be able to get from Ashford to St Panc in 38
minutes, but I'd have been happy with an hour.

Instead of building HS2, they should spend the dosh on other
infrastructure improvements.


Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't give a
flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

OT. - HS2
 

Dave Liquorice scribbled...


On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 19:47:50 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

Instead of building HS2, they should spend the dosh on other
infrastructure improvements.

Is this the story where the current 46 bn cost is likely to grow by
30 bn beacuse of the NIMBYs and Greens getting the route changed.
Well stuff 'em I say unless they are prepared to pay for the changes
they want.


By the time it's finished, all the old nimbys will have kicked the
bucket. Too much of our infrastructure has been altered because the
likes of Prince Jug Ears of Wales stuck their noses into the planning.

OT. - HS2
 

harryagain scribbled...


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 18/08/2013 17:45, harryagain wrote:
Bit about HS2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-500-000.html

Sounds a bit bollix to me. After all, we built a much bigger motorway
network without all this palaver.


Times change, Do you think that the Public Enquiry into the building of
Heathrow Airport would last just 45 minutes if it were done today?

Colin Bignell

Too many lawyers about today raking in the cash on these enquiries.


Dunno about today. They were raking in a fortune 35 years ago when the
M25 was being planned.

OT. - HS2
 

On 18/08/2013 20:50, Artic wrote:
Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't give a
flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

Have to say as someone who lives in the south east, I strongly suspect
that HS2 will worsen my transport options to the middle and north of the
country. That is one reason I am very wary of the claims made for it.

--
Rod

OT. - HS2
 

In article ,
polygonum wrote:
On 18/08/2013 20:50, Artic wrote:
Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't give a
flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

Have to say as someone who lives in the south east, I strongly suspect
that HS2 will worsen my transport options to the middle and north of the
country. That is one reason I am very wary of the claims made for it.

If it's anything like the TGV service from Paris to Barcelona (not quite
there yet) it will make a vast improvement.

It's being promoted wrongly. It's a London to Glasgow route being built in
stages. Not a London to Birmingham route which might get extended.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

OT. - HS2
 

On 18/08/13 19:47, Tim Streater wrote:
In article sting.com,
Artic wrote:

harryagain scribbled...

Bit about HS2

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...esearch-reveal
s-REAL-impact-HS2-link-affect-500-000.html
Sounds a bit bollix to me. After all, we built a much bigger
motorway network without all this palaver.

We've already got an HS1 and that was built without a problem.

I don't call £100 million per mile "without a problem".

Course, it's nice for me to be able to get from Ashford to St Panc in
38 minutes, but I'd have been happy with an hour.

Instead of building HS2, they should spend the dosh on other
infrastructure improvements.

hear hear.
like 30GW of nukes.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

OT. - HS2
 

On 18/08/13 20:58, polygonum wrote:
On 18/08/2013 20:50, Artic wrote:
Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't give a
flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

Have to say as someone who lives in the south east, I strongly suspect
that HS2 will worsen my transport options to the middle and north of
the country. That is one reason I am very wary of the claims made for it.

the HS2 is a European railway designed to link European 'regions'
together by a high speed rail network that only Eurocrats will actually
ever use..
It has nothing to do with us, nimbys, or the government.

They just need our money to build it.

Its just another Zil lane.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

OT. - HS2
 

"harryagain" wrote in message
...
Bit about HS2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-500-000.html

Sounds a bit bollix to me. After all, we built a much bigger motorway
network without all this palaver.


The real issue here, is that this is an EU directive (like about 80% of our
current leigislation) and it is being forced upon us and accepted by our
conniving politicians.

Nobody in their right mind would want to spend 50 billion pounds on a strip
or railway to connect London and Birmingham to save a few minutes travel.

Of course this is all part of the EU trans-nation European traven network
(TEN-T) where they are going to take control of all road, rail, sea and air
travel and then charge us all extra for using it. Once the Galileo satellite
system is functionary correctly, it'll be toll roads everywhere and anyone
who has bought a new car recently will already have a black box fitted.

The government has aready commissioned a report on having road tolls, and
guess who they asked to do it?

Put road tolls and Rothschilds into to Google to find out.

OT. - HS2
 

"Artic" wrote in message
ldhosting.com...
harryagain scribbled...


Bit about HS2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-500-000.html

Sounds a bit bollix to me. After all, we built a much bigger motorway
network without all this palaver.


We've already got an HS1 and that was built without a problem.

No it wasn't.

It was originally planned to follow an entirely different route into London.
But people complained about the disruption

and even when they did compromise on the current route it has to be revised
to put more of it in tunnel because of all the new complaints.

tim

OT. - HS2
 

"Artic" wrote in message
ldhosting.com...
Tim Streater scribbled...


In article
sting.com,
Artic wrote:

harryagain scribbled...

Bit about HS2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...esearch-reveal
s-REAL-impact-HS2-link-affect-500-000.html

Sounds a bit bollix to me. After all, we built a much bigger
motorway
network without all this palaver.

We've already got an HS1 and that was built without a problem.

I don't call £100 million per mile "without a problem".


"...M74 extension is about to open


can I borrow your time machine please?

in Glasgow at a cost of £692m, which
works out at £138.4m per mile..."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13924687



Course, it's nice for me to be able to get from Ashford to St Panc in 38
minutes, but I'd have been happy with an hour.

Instead of building HS2, they should spend the dosh on other
infrastructure improvements.


Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't give a
flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

Eh

How on earth do you make that extrapolation

He could have easily been suggesting that those "other" improvements should
be in the North

tim

OT. - HS2
 

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
polygonum wrote:
On 18/08/2013 20:50, Artic wrote:
Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't give a
flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

Have to say as someone who lives in the south east, I strongly suspect
that HS2 will worsen my transport options to the middle and north of the
country. That is one reason I am very wary of the claims made for it.

If it's anything like the TGV service from Paris to Barcelona (not quite
there yet) it will make a vast improvement.

but it wont be

in France/Spain, before they built the HS network "inter city" services were
very sparse (as few as one per day to some destinations).

This isn't the case here. All of the destinations that will be served by
HS2 phases 1 and 2 already get at least 2 trains per hour. Even the Phase 3
destinations (Scotland) get at leased one per hour.

tim

OT. - HS2
 

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 18/08/13 20:58, polygonum wrote:
On 18/08/2013 20:50, Artic wrote:
Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't give a
flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

Have to say as someone who lives in the south east, I strongly suspect
that HS2 will worsen my transport options to the middle and north of
the country. That is one reason I am very wary of the claims made for it.

the HS2 is a European railway designed to link European 'regions'
together by a high speed rail network that only Eurocrats will actually
ever use..
It has nothing to do with us, nimbys, or the government.


Just another EU conspiracy theory then.

what nonsense

(and no that isn't vote in favour of HS2, just a put down of your ridiculous
claim)

tim

OT. - HS2
 

On 19/08/2013 06:16, Road_Hog wrote:
"harryagain" wrote in message
...
Bit about HS2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-500-000.html

Sounds a bit bollix to me. After all, we built a much bigger motorway
network without all this palaver.


The real issue here, is that this is an EU directive (like about 80% of our
current leigislation) and it is being forced upon us and accepted by our
conniving politicians.

Nobody in their right mind would want to spend 50 billion pounds on a strip
or railway to connect London and Birmingham to save a few minutes travel.

Of course this is all part of the EU trans-nation European traven network
(TEN-T) where they are going to take control of all road, rail, sea and air
travel and then charge us all extra for using it. Once the Galileo satellite
system is functionary correctly, it'll be toll roads everywhere and anyone
who has bought a new car recently will already have a black box fitted.

The government has aready commissioned a report on having road tolls, and
guess who they asked to do it?

Put road tolls and Rothschilds into to Google to find out.

Conspiracy Theories R Us is that way.

Colin Bignell

OT. - HS2
 

In message , tim.....
writes
Instead of building HS2, they should spend the dosh on other
infrastructure improvements.


Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't give a
flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

Eh

How on earth do you make that extrapolation

He could have easily been suggesting that those "other" improvements
should be in the North

Having trickled down the M1 from Northampton at an average 30mph on
Sunday evening, I could vote for that.

Why the obsession with transit speed over 70 anyway? Air transport has
voted itself out of the equation with the insistence on 2 hours
pre-departure and baggage claim delays.
--
Tim Lamb

OT. - HS2
 

In article , tim.....
wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , polygonum
wrote:
On 18/08/2013 20:50, Artic wrote:
Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't
give a flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

Have to say as someone who lives in the south east, I strongly suspect
that HS2 will worsen my transport options to the middle and north of
the country. That is one reason I am very wary of the claims made for
it.

If it's anything like the TGV service from Paris to Barcelona (not
quite there yet) it will make a vast improvement.

but it wont be

in France/Spain, before they built the HS network "inter city" services
were very sparse (as few as one per day to some destinations).

This isn't the case here. All of the destinations that will be served by
HS2 phases 1 and 2 already get at least 2 trains per hour. Even the
Phase 3 destinations (Scotland) get at leased one per hour.

It isn't the frequency that is the issue, it's the shorter journey times.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

OT. - HS2
 

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...

Conspiracy Theories R Us is that way.

Colin Bignell

Colin, don't be a dick all your life, there is no theory, just reality.

You can Google TEN-T if you want. You can see that the EU has ordered the UK
to build HS2, just like they did with HS1. You can Google road tolls and
Rothschilds if you need confirmation. You can Google about the Galileo GPS
system, about European wide road tolls. You can Google about the EU
controlling our roads, railways, air transport and seaways. It's all there,
but you are too lazy just like all the other brain dead X-Factor watching
idiots out there.

OT. - HS2
 

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 17:45:27 +0100, harryagain wrote:

Bit about HS2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sses-research-
reveals-REAL-impact-HS2-link-affect-500-000.html

Sounds a bit bollix to me. After all, we built a much bigger motorway
network without all this palaver.

I really don't see the point of rail in the UK. It's **** by any standard
of measure, if you try and use trains to replace cars with the glaring
exception of travelling to London, which is the only journey I do by
train. Even that is ****, when you consider that living in Birmingham,
the best option for me is to drive 20 miles to Warwick Parkway, and catch
the almost-decent service to London in 1h24.

Just for fun, I have looked to replace the 135 mile journey I need to
make next week, to Portsmouth. I know I can drive it comfortably in about
2h30, I need to be there for 10, so leaving at 7 gives me a bit of
comfort. To do the journey by train (2 changes minimum) is (a) 3 times
the cost of the fuel and (b) I would need to leave the night before to
get there for 10.

And I can drive from Surrey to Edinburgh in 8 hours and arrive feeling
shattered. I can catch the noon train from Kings Cross (leaving home at 10
o'clock) and arrive refreshed at 4.30. Planning in advance, It's cheaper,
too.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

OT. - HS2
 

In article , Road_Hog
wrote:

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...

Conspiracy Theories R Us is that way.

Colin Bignell

Colin, don't be a dick all your life, there is no theory, just reality.

You can Google TEN-T if you want. You can see that the EU has ordered the
UK to build HS2, just like they did with HS1.

I can't see any "ordered".
You can Google road tolls
and Rothschilds if you need confirmation. You can Google about the
Galileo GPS system, about European wide road tolls. You can Google about
the EU controlling our roads, railways, air transport and seaways. It's
all there, but you are too lazy just like all the other brain dead
X-Factor watching idiots out there.

You can also Google to see that the CIA were responsible for 9/11.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

OT. - HS2
 

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:43:31 +0100, Road_Hog wrote:

Conspiracy Theories R Us is that way.

Colin, don't be a dick all your life, there is no theory, just reality.

You can Google TEN-T if you want. You can see that the EU has ordered
the UK to build HS2, just like they did with HS1. You can Google road
tolls and Rothschilds if you need confirmation. You can Google about the
Galileo GPS system, about European wide road tolls. You can Google about
the EU controlling our roads, railways, air transport and seaways. It's
all there, but you are too lazy just like all the other brain dead
X-Factor watching idiots out there.

Ah, bless.

passes the tin-foil hat

OT. - HS2
 

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:02:27 +0100, charles wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 17:45:27 +0100, harryagain wrote:

Bit about HS2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti.../Train-bosses-
research-
reveals-REAL-impact-HS2-link-affect-500-000.html

Sounds a bit bollix to me. After all, we built a much bigger
motorway network without all this palaver.

I really don't see the point of rail in the UK. It's **** by any
standard of measure, if you try and use trains to replace cars with the
glaring exception of travelling to London, which is the only journey I
do by train. Even that is ****, when you consider that living in
Birmingham, the best option for me is to drive 20 miles to Warwick
Parkway, and catch the almost-decent service to London in 1h24.

Just for fun, I have looked to replace the 135 mile journey I need to
make next week, to Portsmouth. I know I can drive it comfortably in
about 2h30, I need to be there for 10, so leaving at 7 gives me a bit
of comfort. To do the journey by train (2 changes minimum) is (a) 3
times the cost of the fuel and (b) I would need to leave the night
before to get there for 10.

And I can drive from Surrey to Edinburgh in 8 hours and arrive feeling
shattered. I can catch the noon train from Kings Cross (leaving home at
10 o'clock) and arrive refreshed at 4.30. Planning in advance, It's
cheaper, too.

For a journey of that length I'd fly. And it's good to be smug about
"planning in advance" but businesses (or rather customers) can't always
work that way.

Fly: Public transport to Heathrow 1.5 hours check in time +2hrs, flight
time 1hr, wait for luggage 0.5 hr, public transport to city centre (it
might be quicker by tram) 0.75 hr. that's nearly 6 hours.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

OT. - HS2
 

On 19/08/2013 10:30, charles wrote:
In article , tim.....
wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , polygonum
wrote:
On 18/08/2013 20:50, Artic wrote:
Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't
give a flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

Have to say as someone who lives in the south east, I strongly suspect
that HS2 will worsen my transport options to the middle and north of
the country. That is one reason I am very wary of the claims made for
it.

If it's anything like the TGV service from Paris to Barcelona (not
quite there yet) it will make a vast improvement.

but it wont be

in France/Spain, before they built the HS network "inter city" services
were very sparse (as few as one per day to some destinations).

This isn't the case here. All of the destinations that will be served by
HS2 phases 1 and 2 already get at least 2 trains per hour. Even the
Phase 3 destinations (Scotland) get at leased one per hour.

It isn't the frequency that is the issue, it's the shorter journey times.


20 minutes? Is it worth it?

OT. - HS2
 

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 20:15:54 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 19:47:50 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

Instead of building HS2, they should spend the dosh on other
infrastructure improvements.

Is this the story where the current 46 bn cost is likely to grow by
30 bn beacuse of the NIMBYs and Greens getting the route changed.
Well stuff 'em I say unless they are prepared to pay for the changes
they want.

So you'd be happy for HS2 to go through your garden?
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

OT. - HS2
 

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:14:08 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article
osting.com,
Artic wrote:

Tim Streater scribbled...
Instead of building HS2, they should spend the dosh on other
infrastructure improvements.

Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't give a
flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

What a ****. Still, to address the point, the "country beyond Watford"
is just what could benefit from infrastructure improvements. Like
improving the Euston - Manchester line, which is fine up to Stoke, but
beyond there is rather slow, IME. Like doubling up the Welwyn Viaduct so
there is no pinch point there (four tracks get squeezed to two).

I should think there's any number of similar main line improvements
could be made for just a fraction of the cost of HS2.

+1

(And I don't live in the South East ;-)
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

OT. - HS2
 

On 19/08/13 08:30, tim..... wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 18/08/13 20:58, polygonum wrote:
On 18/08/2013 20:50, Artic wrote:
Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't
give a
flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

Have to say as someone who lives in the south east, I strongly suspect
that HS2 will worsen my transport options to the middle and north of
the country. That is one reason I am very wary of the claims made
for it.

the HS2 is a European railway designed to link European 'regions'
together by a high speed rail network that only Eurocrats will actually
ever use..
It has nothing to do with us, nimbys, or the government.


Just another EU conspiracy theory then.


Perhaps. Perhaps not.

regardez la.

http://tentea.ec.europa.eu/images/ma...0527_b ig.jpg

And their mission statement

http://tentea.ec.europa.eu/en/about_...troduction.htm

Professor *Andrew McNaughton *has been with HS2 Ltd since 2009.

He is part of the HS2 Executive team and is also Vice Chair of the EU
Transport Advisory Group, and Chair of the European Rail Research
Advisory Council.

I will leave you to draw your own conclusions on this matter.





--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

OT. - HS2
 

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:28:27 +0100, Mark wrote:

So you'd be happy for HS2 to go through your garden?

A good friend of mine was about to put his house on the market when the
route was announced. No choice but to sell, since he was emigrating. The
back garden ends 50ft from the top of the cutting.

He was _turned down_ for compensation.

Apparently, he hadn't tried hard enough to sell it for the pre-route-
announcement value... He did eventually manage to sell - for about half
that value.

OT. - HS2
 

On 19/08/13 11:43, Road_Hog wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
Conspiracy Theories R Us is that way.

Colin Bignell
Colin, don't be a dick all your life, there is no theory, just reality.

You can Google TEN-T if you want. You can see that the EU has ordered the UK
to build HS2, just like they did with HS1. You can Google road tolls and
Rothschilds if you need confirmation. You can Google about the Galileo GPS
system, about European wide road tolls. You can Google about the EU
controlling our roads, railways, air transport and seaways. It's all there,
but you are too lazy just like all the other brain dead X-Factor watching
idiots out there.


The EU certainly like tidy neat pan European integrated projects.
The EU certainly like railways.
The EU has more than one department tasked with planning these things.
At least one person heavily involved in HS2 is also involved with at
least one of these groups.

How far pressure and inducements have may be or will be applied we will
probably never know.,

But to claim that HS2 has NOTHING to do with Europe is utter ********.
And to claim that without the EU in the frame it would still have got
proposed is also utter ********.

It is just the normal 'let's see how many lobby groups, European and
local we can placte and get paid off by, whilst getting the taxpayer to
fund something entirely unnecessary and unjustified, by telling them it
is necessary and justified' pork barrel politics..


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

OT. - HS2
 

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/08/13 08:30, tim..... wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 18/08/13 20:58, polygonum wrote:
On 18/08/2013 20:50, Artic wrote:
Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't
give a
flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

Have to say as someone who lives in the south east, I strongly suspect
that HS2 will worsen my transport options to the middle and north of
the country. That is one reason I am very wary of the claims made
for it.

the HS2 is a European railway designed to link European 'regions'
together by a high speed rail network that only Eurocrats will actually
ever use..
It has nothing to do with us, nimbys, or the government.


Just another EU conspiracy theory then.


Perhaps. Perhaps not.

regardez la.

http://tentea.ec.europa.eu/images/ma...0527_b ig.jpg

And their mission statement

http://tentea.ec.europa.eu/en/about_...troduction.htm

Professor *Andrew McNaughton *has been with HS2 Ltd since 2009.

He is part of the HS2 Executive team and is also Vice Chair of the EU
Transport Advisory Group, and Chair of the European Rail Research
Advisory Council.

I will leave you to draw your own conclusions on this matter.

But you really think that Cameron is persisting with this 50 billion white
elephant because some EU-crat has got to him

Utter nonsense

tim

OT. - HS2
 

On 19/08/13 12:28, Mark wrote:
On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 20:15:54 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 19:47:50 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

Instead of building HS2, they should spend the dosh on other
infrastructure improvements.
Is this the story where the current 46 bn cost is likely to grow by
30 bn beacuse of the NIMBYs and Greens getting the route changed.
Well stuff 'em I say unless they are prepared to pay for the changes
they want.
So you'd be happy for HS2 to go through your garden?
only if it made me rich for life.

for £10m i'd agree.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

OT. - HS2
 

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:46:09 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 19/08/13 12:28, Mark wrote:
On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 20:15:54 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 19:47:50 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

Instead of building HS2, they should spend the dosh on other
infrastructure improvements.
Is this the story where the current 46 bn cost is likely to grow by
30 bn beacuse of the NIMBYs and Greens getting the route changed.
Well stuff 'em I say unless they are prepared to pay for the changes
they want.
So you'd be happy for HS2 to go through your garden?
only if it made me rich for life.

for £10m i'd agree.

This was a question for Dave since he was complaining about NIMBYs.

However your response is raises an interesting point. I very much
doubt that anyone would be made rich for life or get anywhere near
£10m compensation for having a railway through their property. If you
(or I) would only be willing in this case why should anyone else have
to endure the railway without adequate compensation?

And I am firmly of the opinion that the people who shout "NIMBY" the
loudest are purely doing so because they are relieved that it's not
their backyard being ruined.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

OT. - HS2
 

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:44:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 19/08/13 11:43, Road_Hog wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
Conspiracy Theories R Us is that way.

Colin Bignell
Colin, don't be a dick all your life, there is no theory, just reality.

You can Google TEN-T if you want. You can see that the EU has ordered the UK
to build HS2, just like they did with HS1. You can Google road tolls and
Rothschilds if you need confirmation. You can Google about the Galileo GPS
system, about European wide road tolls. You can Google about the EU
controlling our roads, railways, air transport and seaways. It's all there,
but you are too lazy just like all the other brain dead X-Factor watching
idiots out there.


The EU certainly like tidy neat pan European integrated projects.
The EU certainly like railways.
The EU has more than one department tasked with planning these things.
At least one person heavily involved in HS2 is also involved with at
least one of these groups.

How far pressure and inducements have may be or will be applied we will
probably never know.,

But to claim that HS2 has NOTHING to do with Europe is utter ********.
And to claim that without the EU in the frame it would still have got
proposed is also utter ********.

It is just the normal 'let's see how many lobby groups, European and
local we can placte and get paid off by, whilst getting the taxpayer to
fund something entirely unnecessary and unjustified, by telling them it
is necessary and justified' pork barrel politics..

And you can bet that many UK politicans will benefit personally from
this as they are probably shareholders of the companies that will gain
the contracts to construct and run the railway.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

OT. - HS2
 

In message , Tim
Streater writes
In article
osting.com,
Artic wrote:

Tim Streater scribbled...
Instead of building HS2, they should spend the dosh on other
infrastructure improvements.
Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't
give a flying **** about the rest of the country beyond Watford.

What a ****. Still, to address the point, the "country beyond Watford"
is just what could benefit from infrastructure improvements. Like
improving the Euston - Manchester line, which is fine up to Stoke, but
beyond there is rather slow, IME. Like doubling up the Welwyn Viaduct
so there is no pinch point there (four tracks get squeezed to two).

Hah! Try counting the wealthy nimbies at Digswell!

I should think there's any number of similar main line improvements
could be made for just a fraction of the cost of HS2.

Yes.


--
Tim Lamb

OT. - HS2
 

On 19/08/13 12:56, Mark wrote:
On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:46:09 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 19/08/13 12:28, Mark wrote:
On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 20:15:54 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 19:47:50 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

Instead of building HS2, they should spend the dosh on other
infrastructure improvements.
Is this the story where the current 46 bn cost is likely to grow by
30 bn beacuse of the NIMBYs and Greens getting the route changed.
Well stuff 'em I say unless they are prepared to pay for the changes
they want.
So you'd be happy for HS2 to go through your garden?
only if it made me rich for life.

for £10m i'd agree.
This was a question for Dave since he was complaining about NIMBYs.

However your response is raises an interesting point. I very much
doubt that anyone would be made rich for life or get anywhere near
£10m compensation for having a railway through their property. If you
(or I) would only be willing in this case why should anyone else have
to endure the railway without adequate compensation?

And I am firmly of the opinion that the people who shout "NIMBY" the
loudest are purely doing so because they are relieved that it's not
their backyard being ruined.
The point is what value would I place on having to move away, see my
whole house and the place I have worked on for 20 years destroyed. 10m
would enable me to get someone else in, recreate it elsewhere and
landscape it and not leave me out of pocket at all, and fact well in pocket.

Nobody minds if they are adequately and realistically compensated, but
they are not, because it would make the project even more insanely
expensive than it already is, and thebusiness case already is predicated
on absurdly optimistic cost and revenue assumptions.





--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

OT. - HS2
 

On 19/08/13 12:59, Mark wrote:
On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:44:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 19/08/13 11:43, Road_Hog wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
Conspiracy Theories R Us is that way.

Colin Bignell
Colin, don't be a dick all your life, there is no theory, just reality.

You can Google TEN-T if you want. You can see that the EU has ordered the UK
to build HS2, just like they did with HS1. You can Google road tolls and
Rothschilds if you need confirmation. You can Google about the Galileo GPS
system, about European wide road tolls. You can Google about the EU
controlling our roads, railways, air transport and seaways. It's all there,
but you are too lazy just like all the other brain dead X-Factor watching
idiots out there.


The EU certainly like tidy neat pan European integrated projects.
The EU certainly like railways.
The EU has more than one department tasked with planning these things.
At least one person heavily involved in HS2 is also involved with at
least one of these groups.

How far pressure and inducements have may be or will be applied we will
probably never know.,

But to claim that HS2 has NOTHING to do with Europe is utter ********.
And to claim that without the EU in the frame it would still have got
proposed is also utter ********.

It is just the normal 'let's see how many lobby groups, European and
local we can placte and get paid off by, whilst getting the taxpayer to
fund something entirely unnecessary and unjustified, by telling them it
is necessary and justified' pork barrel politics..
And you can bet that many UK politicans will benefit personally from
this as they are probably shareholders of the companies that will gain
the contracts to construct and run the railway.
Absolutely. HS2 is, pardon the mixing of metaphors, just another gravy
train.

But EU interests are aboard it as well.

Siemens makes choo-choos. I bet it will need new rolling stock and locos
wont it?



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

OT. - HS2
 

On 19/08/13 13:12, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:

Don't get me wrong. I'm staunchly pro-train. Which is why I feel so
angry that they are so ****.

WTF does "pro-train" mean. I'm pro- modes of transport that are
effective. So in the early 1800s I'd be pro-canals. After the train
came in I'd be pro-trains, for quite some number of years. Why?
because each of those modes was a vast improvement over the only other
mode available at the time (either your own horse - rich men only - or
getting a ride on a coach-and-four - poor comfort and some days to get
anywhere). As soon as the railway came in I'd have stopped being
pro-canals.


applause
But no mode of transport has an automatic right to exist. That is a
fact the the railway anoraks of the world refuse to accept. Sometimes
the train is better for a particular journey. Other times its not.

One of the difficulties of having a reasoned debate is that some
participants exhibit a religious love of particular transport modes.

applause
My friend, ex director of Arriva trains said that largely there were two
sorts of people in railways. Sober businessmen running spreadsheets and
doing traffic analysis and ROI calculations and bidding only for
franchises that made sense, and overgrown schoolboys who liked to play
with full size trains sets and wore beards.

Oh and government and ex government railways that were simply there to
soak up public money in order to provide a 'social service' to the three
pensioners that need to get into Doncaster from some rural place so they
didn't have to hire a taxi every time they needed to go to the dentist,
once a year..

Personally i'd use the railway system for freight, and invest in
marshalling yards controlled by computers. Its uselss for short trips
for people except in an untra urban situation, where the number of
people justfies a train every couple of minutes.

Anyway, I also believe that by the time HS2 is built, if it ever is,
mostly we will be bringing the work to the people.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

OT. - HS2
 

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 21:44:05 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

Well what do you expect. The Frogs have twice the land area we have

True

, so
are in a position to run a railway line right across the country without
it upsetting anyone, 'cos where it goes is all fields.

Untrue. What makes you think the sort of people who live out in the
country are going to be any less upset by development than those who
live in the cities? I would expect them to be more upset, because
such development would be a more noticeable impact on the environment.
A motorway or railway in an urban area is just one more source of
noise and pollution amid many, whereas out in the country it is a
major encroachment and a significant reduction in the quality of life.

We can't do that
here. Supposedly the extra cost is due to more tunnelling.

Yes, very likely. The route area is quite densely populated.

But it's a good thing to bury such schemes. Wherever I drive now I
see electricity pylons. Like my mother before me, I can't help
wishing they'd buried the cables instead when they were first doing
the work half a century or more ago. The extra cost at the time would
seem as nothing to what would have to be done to clean up the eyesores
now.
--
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