Just tried this

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/plu...ipemaster-pro/

I have bad memories of pipe irons - but I'm pleased to say this one is the
dog's nads. Joint in about 20 seconds. No problems with lead free solder.

Yes - I do use a blowtorch too - but I have a load of joints near cables and
in the roof space and frankly, I'd have a lot of trouble with a flame making
sure I did not damage something!

It's not cheap but with the number of joints I'm planning to do, it was
worth it

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Just tried this

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/plu...ipemaster-pro/

I have bad memories of pipe irons - but I'm pleased to say this one is
the dog's nads. Joint in about 20 seconds. No problems with lead free
solder.


Wonder what they've changed? I had one some 25 years ago and it was
rubbish.

--
*"I am " is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 19:26:23 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

I have bad memories of pipe irons - but I'm pleased to say this one is
the dog's nads. Joint in about 20 seconds.

How long does it take to warm up?

Yes - I do use a blowtorch too - but I have a load of joints near cables
and in the roof space and frankly, I'd have a lot of trouble with a
flame making sure I did not damage something!

You don't have a heat mat?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/rothenberg...ring-mat/54910

Donno if that is the same as mine but what I have is a blooming
amazing thing. Sling it behind a pipe, covering painted woodwork,
make joint, the finer bits of the mat flame side glowing red, remove
mat, not sign of heat damage to paint work.

Think I've even played with it, hottest part of blowlamp flame played
on an small area it glowing red, take away flame reverse side is hot
but not "ouch" hot...

BTBH in a confined sapce like a loft a blowlamp can be a liabilty.
It's not so much when making a joint but when you move the flame away
as you complete the joint or put it down afterwards. The latter
particularly if it doesn't have piezo ignition so there is a
temptation to turn it down but leave it lit.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Friday 26 July 2013 21:16 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 19:26:23 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

I have bad memories of pipe irons - but I'm pleased to say this one is
the dog's nads. Joint in about 20 seconds.

How long does it take to warm up?

About 4 mins. About the same time as final joint prep (I tend to use heat
activate flux so make up a fair few joints and bomb through them).

Yes - I do use a blowtorch too - but I have a load of joints near cables
and in the roof space and frankly, I'd have a lot of trouble with a
flame making sure I did not damage something!

You don't have a heat mat?


I do - you would not want a cable behind it - you can still scorch things
through it (I did just now on a bit I did use a torch on).

http://www.screwfix.com/p/rothenberg...ring-mat/54910

Donno if that is the same as mine but what I have is a blooming
amazing thing. Sling it behind a pipe, covering painted woodwork,
make joint, the finer bits of the mat flame side glowing red, remove
mat, not sign of heat damage to paint work.

OK - mine does not do that - perhaps that's why I went off the idea...

Think I've even played with it, hottest part of blowlamp flame played
on an small area it glowing red, take away flame reverse side is hot
but not "ouch" hot...

BTBH in a confined sapce like a loft a blowlamp can be a liabilty.
It's not so much when making a joint but when you move the flame away
as you complete the joint or put it down afterwards. The latter
particularly if it doesn't have piezo ignition so there is a
temptation to turn it down but leave it lit.

That too. Most of my plumbing is in attic spaces with bits of wood, dust and
cables everywhere...


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Friday 26 July 2013 19:49 Dave Plowman (News) wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Just tried this

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/plu...ipemaster-pro/

I have bad memories of pipe irons - but I'm pleased to say this one is
the dog's nads. Joint in about 20 seconds. No problems with lead free
solder.


Wonder what they've changed? I had one some 25 years ago and it was
rubbish.


I'm guessing the "Pro" might be a factor. The one I tried was of 20 year old
vintage and yellow. It took forever. This one is black and 220W.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Wonder what they've changed? I had one some 25 years ago and it was
rubbish.


I'm guessing the "Pro" might be a factor. The one I tried was of 20 year
old vintage and yellow. It took forever. This one is black and 220W.

If it does work reasonably quickly could be a useful tool. Must admit to
thinking 220w wouldn't be enough.

--
*Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 26/07/2013 19:26, Tim Watts wrote:
Just tried this

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/plu...ipemaster-pro/

I have bad memories of pipe irons - but I'm pleased to say this one is the
dog's nads. Joint in about 20 seconds. No problems with lead free solder.

Yes - I do use a blowtorch too - but I have a load of joints near cables and
in the roof space and frankly, I'd have a lot of trouble with a flame making
sure I did not damage something!

It's not cheap but with the number of joints I'm planning to do, it was
worth it


You could buy quite a few copper push-fit fittings for the price!
They're what I use in confined spaces.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 27/07/2013 12:37, Roger Mills wrote:
On 26/07/2013 19:26, Tim Watts wrote:
Just tried this

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/plu...ipemaster-pro/

I have bad memories of pipe irons - but I'm pleased to say this one is
the
dog's nads. Joint in about 20 seconds. No problems with lead free solder.

Yes - I do use a blowtorch too - but I have a load of joints near
cables and
in the roof space and frankly, I'd have a lot of trouble with a flame
making
sure I did not damage something!

It's not cheap but with the number of joints I'm planning to do, it was
worth it


You could buy quite a few copper push-fit fittings for the price!
They're what I use in confined spaces.

Run plastic pipe and don't put any fittings in confined spaces.

In article m,
dennis@home wrote:
Run plastic pipe and don't put any fittings in confined spaces.

Any plumbing you've done must look a right mess if you follow that
principle.

--
*In some places, C:\ is the root of all directories *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:47:19 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:

Run plastic pipe and don't put any fittings in confined spaces.

Inadvisable in a loft, IMHO, rodents will gnaw the plastic pipe.

The T&Cs on plumbers' liability insurance often prohibits any work with naked flames in lofts or other confined spaces. The copper press-fit devices are reported to be good, but still rely on an 'O' ring of dubious longevity.
I'd prefer a soldered joint in most cases.

Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:47:19 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:

Run plastic pipe and don't put any fittings in confined spaces.

Inadvisable in a loft, IMHO, rodents will gnaw the plastic pipe.

The T&Cs on plumbers' liability insurance often prohibits any work with
naked flames in lofts or other confined spaces. The copper press-fit
devices are reported to be good, but still rely on an 'O' ring of dubious longevity.
I'd prefer a soldered joint in most cases.

In these circumstances I'm now using press-fit fittings. Fast, cold fix and
cheaper than copper/brass fittings. The manual press fitting tool costs
less than a decent blow torch or the Antex tool. The battery operated press
fitting tools are amusingly expensive.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

In article
,
Steve Firth wrote:
In these circumstances I'm now using press-fit fittings. Fast, cold fix
and cheaper than copper/brass fittings. The manual press fitting tool
costs less than a decent blow torch or the Antex tool. The battery
operated press fitting tools are amusingly expensive.

Surely most will already have a decent blowlamp? And end feed capillary
fittings are cheap. Quite a consideration on a big job. They're also tried
and tested.

--
*A fool and his money can throw one hell of a party.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
Steve Firth wrote:
In these circumstances I'm now using press-fit fittings. Fast, cold fix
and cheaper than copper/brass fittings. The manual press fitting tool
costs less than a decent blow torch or the Antex tool. The battery
operated press fitting tools are amusingly expensive.

Surely most will already have a decent blowlamp? And end feed capillary
fittings are cheap. Quite a consideration on a big job. They're also tried
and tested.

Indeed but we were talking about installing pipes where a blow torch would
be a fire hazard. Also copper isn't getting any cheaper.

Press fit is also tried and tested BTW.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On Saturday, July 27, 2013 4:49:16 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:

Indeed but we were talking about installing pipes where a blow torch would

be a fire hazard.

Not just a fire hazard, but unuseable due to the insurance restrictions.

If a plumber starts a loft fire, his insurance policy probably won't cover him and
the lawyers would want take any assets he may have.

On 27/07/2013 14:03, Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:47:19 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:

Run plastic pipe and don't put any fittings in confined spaces.

Inadvisable in a loft, IMHO, rodents will gnaw the plastic pipe.

Rodents can gnaw copper pipe too.


The T&Cs on plumbers' liability insurance often prohibits any work
with naked flames in lofts or other confined spaces. The copper
press-fit devices are reported to be good, but still rely on an 'O'
ring of dubious longevity.

I have thirty year old plastic plumbing and its fine.
I have known copper tube to fail at about 20 years.

I'd prefer a soldered joint in most
cases.


I've just had dozens done in the loft.

And a coil or two of plastic.

The solar thermal is all mechanical joints, no solder.

On Saturday, July 27, 2013 6:56:32 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/07/2013 14:03, Onetap wrote:

On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:47:19 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:



Run plastic pipe and don't put any fittings in confined spaces.



Inadvisable in a loft, IMHO, rodents will gnaw the plastic pipe.



Rodents can gnaw copper pipe too.

Only those with tungsten carbide dentures; much less likely that plastic pipe or PVC cable insulation.

On Saturday 27 July 2013 09:55 Dave Plowman (News) wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Wonder what they've changed? I had one some 25 years ago and it was
rubbish.


I'm guessing the "Pro" might be a factor. The one I tried was of 20 year
old vintage and yellow. It took forever. This one is black and 220W.

If it does work reasonably quickly could be a useful tool. Must admit to
thinking 220w wouldn't be enough.


The last joint I did last night was in dim light under the floor. The heads
were glowing dull red - I was impressed.

Well, I was until on eof the heads tried to fall off. One negative there...

I have bent the shim - seems tighter now.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Saturday 27 July 2013 12:37 Roger Mills wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 26/07/2013 19:26, Tim Watts wrote:
Just tried this

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/plu...ipemaster-pro/

I have bad memories of pipe irons - but I'm pleased to say this one is
the dog's nads. Joint in about 20 seconds. No problems with lead free
solder.

Yes - I do use a blowtorch too - but I have a load of joints near cables
and in the roof space and frankly, I'd have a lot of trouble with a flame
making sure I did not damage something!

It's not cheap but with the number of joints I'm planning to do, it was
worth it


You could buy quite a few copper push-fit fittings for the price!
They're what I use in confined spaces.

Yep. But I prefer the solidity of solder


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Saturday 27 July 2013 12:47 dennis@home wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 27/07/2013 12:37, Roger Mills wrote:
On 26/07/2013 19:26, Tim Watts wrote:
Just tried this

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/plu...ipemaster-pro/

I have bad memories of pipe irons - but I'm pleased to say this one is
the
dog's nads. Joint in about 20 seconds. No problems with lead free
solder.

Yes - I do use a blowtorch too - but I have a load of joints near
cables and
in the roof space and frankly, I'd have a lot of trouble with a flame
making
sure I did not damage something!

It's not cheap but with the number of joints I'm planning to do, it was
worth it


You could buy quite a few copper push-fit fittings for the price!
They're what I use in confined spaces.

Run plastic pipe and don't put any fittings in confined spaces.

No thanks.

Plastic is great for certain jobs, but I really have not basis for beliveing
it will be reliable in the long term (decades) - especially if a mouse gets
a nibble.
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Saturday 27 July 2013 15:07 Steve Firth wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:47:19 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:

Run plastic pipe and don't put any fittings in confined spaces.

Inadvisable in a loft, IMHO, rodents will gnaw the plastic pipe.

The T&Cs on plumbers' liability insurance often prohibits any work with
naked flames in lofts or other confined spaces. The copper press-fit
devices are reported to be good, but still rely on an 'O' ring of dubious
longevity.
I'd prefer a soldered joint in most cases.

In these circumstances I'm now using press-fit fittings. Fast, cold fix
and cheaper than copper/brass fittings. The manual press fitting tool
costs less than a decent blow torch or the Antex tool. The battery
operated press fitting tools are amusingly expensive.


The copper CuproFit or the brass Push Fit Conex? (or another)?

The brass ones look pretty solid but need an expensive tool to demount.
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Saturday 27 July 2013 16:49 Steve Firth wrote in uk.d-i-y:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
-
september.org,
Steve Firth wrote:
In these circumstances I'm now using press-fit fittings. Fast, cold fix
and cheaper than copper/brass fittings. The manual press fitting tool
costs less than a decent blow torch or the Antex tool. The battery
operated press fitting tools are amusingly expensive.

Surely most will already have a decent blowlamp? And end feed capillary
fittings are cheap. Quite a consideration on a big job. They're also
tried and tested.

Indeed but we were talking about installing pipes where a blow torch would
be a fire hazard. Also copper isn't getting any cheaper.

and a liability to cables.

The fire hazard I can cope with as I can always have an extinguisher. But it
would be *very* easy to damage one of my mains cables as they and the pipes
go roughly down the same general route and cross each other often.


Press fit is also tried and tested BTW.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 20:42:11 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

In these circumstances I'm now using press-fit fittings. Fast,
cold fix
and cheaper than copper/brass fittings. The manual press fitting
tool
costs less than a decent blow torch or the Antex tool. The battery
operated press fitting tools are amusingly expensive.

The copper CuproFit or the brass Push Fit Conex? (or another)?

I wondered if anybody else would spot the use of press-fit rather
than push-fit. B-)

It's another, some form of crimp:

http://pegleryorkshire.co.uk/EN/Products/PressFit

Remarkably useless website, doesn't explain how the systems works at
all. Plenty of repetitive sales puff though.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote:
[snip]

Remarkably useless website, doesn't explain how the systems works at
all. Plenty of repetitive sales puff though.

This saves me the problem of explaining it, it's a PDF:

http://www.uk-plumbing.com/brochure/...RifengPipe.pdf

Press fit is * the* standard way of plumbing across Europe. It's just the
UK that is backwards.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

Tim Watts wrote:
On Saturday 27 July 2013 15:07 Steve Firth wrote in uk.d-i-y:
[snip]

In these circumstances I'm now using press-fit fittings. Fast, cold fix
and cheaper than copper/brass fittings. The manual press fitting tool
costs less than a decent blow torch or the Antex tool. The battery
operated press fitting tools are amusingly expensive.


The copper CuproFit or the brass Push Fit Conex? (or another)?

Another. I'm using Rifeng tube and fittings that are compatible with Wavin
Tigris:

http://www.redlinepex.com/rifeng_s/84.htm

http://overseas.wavin.com/master/mas.../WavinTigrisK1


The brass ones look pretty solid but need an expensive tool to demount.

These fittings are crimped onto the tube using a hand, hydraulic or
electrically operated press. They can't be demounted once fixed.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On 27/07/2013 23:22, Steve Firth wrote:



These fittings are crimped onto the tube using a hand, hydraulic or
electrically operated press. They can't be demounted once fixed.



I hope they use good O rings.
I can't help think that push fit is easier and likely to be just as good.
Plastic is also rated at a higher working temp and pressure.

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 22:22:28 +0000 (UTC), Steve Firth wrote:

Remarkably useless website, doesn't explain how the systems works
at
all. Plenty of repetitive sales puff though.

This saves me the problem of explaining it, it's a PDF:

http://www.uk-plumbing.com/brochure/...RifengPipe.pdf

That's a plastic pipe based system. The Yorkshire Pegler XPress is
copper pipe based. No inserts and crimp sleeves, just slide fiting
onto tube and crimp.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Saturday 27 July 2013 21:37 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 20:42:11 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

In these circumstances I'm now using press-fit fittings. Fast,
cold fix
and cheaper than copper/brass fittings. The manual press fitting
tool
costs less than a decent blow torch or the Antex tool. The battery
operated press fitting tools are amusingly expensive.

The copper CuproFit or the brass Push Fit Conex? (or another)?

I wondered if anybody else would spot the use of press-fit rather
than push-fit. B-)


Oh ******** - stupid for me as I'd been reading Conex's web page earlier and
had seen press fit! Brain auto parse error...

It's another, some form of crimp:

http://pegleryorkshire.co.uk/EN/Products/PressFit

Remarkably useless website, doesn't explain how the systems works at
all. Plenty of repetitive sales puff though.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 27/07/2013 14:03, Onetap wrote:
On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:47:19 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:

Run plastic pipe and don't put any fittings in confined spaces.

Inadvisable in a loft, IMHO, rodents will gnaw the plastic pipe.

The T&Cs on plumbers' liability insurance often prohibits any work with naked flames in lofts or other confined spaces. The copper press-fit devices are reported to be good, but still rely on an 'O' ring of dubious longevity.
I'd prefer a soldered joint in most cases.

That would mean no cable should be put in loft, as they are PVC sheathed ?

On 27/07/2013 16:49, Steve Firth wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
Also copper isn't getting any cheaper.



Yes noticed that .... perhaps we should invade and claim some mineral
rich country in Africa and take over its copper, that is how it used to work

In article
,
Steve Firth wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote:
[snip]

Remarkably useless website, doesn't explain how the systems works at
all. Plenty of repetitive sales puff though.

This saves me the problem of explaining it, it's a PDF:

http://www.uk-plumbing.com/brochure/...RifengPipe.pdf

Press fit is * the* standard way of plumbing across Europe. It's just the
UK that is backwards.

Just to be clear - you think everything that is the standard across Europe
is better than anything which differs from that in the UK?

Or are you just being selective to suit your argument?

I know from my own experience just how long lasting properly made solder
fittings are. Until push fit have been around for that sort of time I'll
reserves judgment. Oh - and then there's the small matter of price.

An end feed 15mm coupler costs just over 15p if you buy 25 from
Toolstation. Care to give the equivalent cost for push fit?

--
*Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:56:44 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

These fittings are crimped onto the tube using a hand, hydraulic
or
electrically operated press. They can't be demounted once fixed.

I hope they use good O rings.

The plastic crimp system that Mr Firth pointed to looks to use three.

I can't help think that push fit is easier and likely to be just as
good.

I doubt it, a similar system is used to put the ends on hydralic
hoses working at considerably higher pressures than an domestic water
system will encounter.

Plastic is also rated at a higher working temp and pressure.

Higher than what? When I've looked at the specs for plastic it's a
bit borderline for use on a conventional (70 ish C flow) CH system
with more than two floors. The pressure derates rather quickly with
temperature and the recomended distance between supports decreases as
well.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sunday, July 28, 2013 9:11:44 AM UTC+1, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 27/07/2013 14:03, Onetap wrote:

That would mean no cable should be put in loft, as they are PVC sheathed ?

Unlike tubes, there's no easily available alternative; maybe steel conduit.

Rodents are a known, small risk with plastic pipe systems (and PVC insulated cables).
There are numerous advantages and disadvantages; plastic has no scrap value and is less likely to be nicked.
Pay your money and make your choice.
A plumber may recommend plastic, since it makes his job easier, but may neglect to mention the disadvantages

On 28/07/2013 12:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:56:44 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

These fittings are crimped onto the tube using a hand, hydraulic
or
electrically operated press. They can't be demounted once fixed.

I hope they use good O rings.

The plastic crimp system that Mr Firth pointed to looks to use three.

I can't help think that push fit is easier and likely to be just as
good.

I doubt it, a similar system is used to put the ends on hydralic
hoses working at considerably higher pressures than an domestic water
system will encounter.

Plastic is also rated at a higher working temp and pressure.

Higher than what? When I've looked at the specs for plastic it's a
bit borderline for use on a conventional (70 ish C flow) CH system
with more than two floors. The pressure derates rather quickly with
temperature and the recomended distance between supports decreases as
well.


IIRC the stuff I used was 10 bar at 90c, the stuff Steve said was 10
barr at 60C.

I'm not going to start crimping stuff now, I don't do enough of it.

On 27/07/2013 20:43, Tim Watts wrote:
On Saturday 27 July 2013 16:49 Steve Firth wrote in uk.d-i-y:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
-
september.org,
Steve Firth wrote:
In these circumstances I'm now using press-fit fittings. Fast, cold fix
and cheaper than copper/brass fittings. The manual press fitting tool
costs less than a decent blow torch or the Antex tool. The battery
operated press fitting tools are amusingly expensive.

Surely most will already have a decent blowlamp? And end feed capillary
fittings are cheap. Quite a consideration on a big job. They're also
tried and tested.

Indeed but we were talking about installing pipes where a blow torch would
be a fire hazard. Also copper isn't getting any cheaper.

and a liability to cables.

The fire hazard I can cope with as I can always have an extinguisher. But it
would be *very* easy to damage one of my mains cables as they and the pipes
go roughly down the same general route and cross each other often.

Not only that, but there are sometimes where access is hard enough that
you don't want to be playing with a blowtorch anyway... rather like my
episode a couple of months back:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e_rubbing_pipe


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Onetap wrote:
A plumber may recommend plastic, since it makes his job easier, but may
neglect to mention the disadvantages

Quite. Rather the same as asking his advice on which boiler to buy. Or
where it should be sited.

--
*Time is fun when you're having flies... Kermit

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 14:40:57 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Higher than what? When I've looked at the specs for plastic it's a
bit borderline for use on a conventional (70 ish C flow) CH system
with more than two floors. The pressure derates rather quickly
with
temperature and the recomended distance between supports decreases
as
well.

IIRC the stuff I used was 10 bar at 90c, the stuff Steve said was 10
barr at 60C.

Hum Speedfit PEX barrier pipe in central heating: Normal working temp
82 C, Max working temp 105 C, short term malfunction at 114 C, max
working pressure 3 bar.

Hep2o is better max 6 bar at 80 C.

Poly pipe has a similar spec to Speedfit that is around 3 bar at 80
C.

I'm not going to start crimping stuff now, I don't do enough of it.

Niether am I, end fed or compression here...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sunday, July 28, 2013 9:13:41 AM UTC+1, Rick Hughes wrote:

Yes noticed that .... perhaps we should invade and claim some mineral

rich country in Africa and take over its copper, that is how it used to work

Or rebuild their railways for (over) payment in minerals. That how the Chinese work it.
Relevant palms greased, Joe Average gets sweet FA from the deals.

On 28/07/2013 12:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
An end feed 15mm coupler costs just over 15p if you buy 25 from
Toolstation. Care to give the equivalent cost for push fit?

Would it not be more relevant to ask the cost for press fit?

And whether or not you think so, I would like to have some idea of how
copper end feed, pre-soldered, plastic, copper push fit, copper press
fit, etc. compare.

Obviously the tools for press fit represent a significant cost. And it
appears to available in a wider range of diameters. So I suspect the
fittings might be less expensive than, say, push fit.

--
Rod

On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 20:11:54 +0100, polygonum wrote:

And whether or not you think so, I would like to have some idea of how
copper end feed, pre-soldered, plastic, copper push fit, copper press
fit, etc. compare.

BES Sep 12 catalogue that just happens to be next to me:

15 mm coupler:
UK Compression £1.19
DZR Compression £1.82
Imported Comp. £0.95
End fed £0.14
Solder ring £0.24
Push Fit:
Cuprofit 2 £1.66
Tectite Sprint £1.08
Conex £2.09
Conex Press Fit £1.43
Speedfit £1.08
HEP2O £1.87
Polyfit £1.04

15 mm elbow
UK Compression £1.55
DZR Compression £1.98
Imported Comp. £1.13
End fed £0.24
Solder ring £0.53
Push fit:
Cuprofit 2 £1.89
Tectite Sprint £1.33
Conex £2.46
Conex Press Fit £1.40
Speedfit £1.29
HEP2O £2.30
Polyfit £1.24

Note that is prices from Sep 2012 for one off and probably plus VAT
as well.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 28/07/2013 21:11, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 20:11:54 +0100, polygonum wrote:

And whether or not you think so, I would like to have some idea of how
copper end feed, pre-soldered, plastic, copper push fit, copper press
fit, etc. compare.

BES Sep 12 catalogue that just happens to be next to me:

15 mm coupler:
UK Compression £1.19
DZR Compression £1.82
Imported Comp. £0.95
End fed £0.14
Solder ring £0.24
Push Fit:
Cuprofit 2 £1.66
Tectite Sprint £1.08
Conex £2.09
Conex Press Fit £1.43
Speedfit £1.08
HEP2O £1.87
Polyfit £1.04

15 mm elbow
UK Compression £1.55
DZR Compression £1.98
Imported Comp. £1.13
End fed £0.24
Solder ring £0.53
Push fit:
Cuprofit 2 £1.89
Tectite Sprint £1.33
Conex £2.46
Conex Press Fit £1.40
Speedfit £1.29
HEP2O £2.30
Polyfit £1.24

Note that is prices from Sep 2012 for one off and probably plus VAT
as well.

Why thank you sir.

That is a big range of prices. About 10:1.

--
Rod