I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
rather than cutting cleanly.

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

MrWeld MrWeld wrote:
I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
rather than cutting cleanly.

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

I've used a two handled post hole digger very effectively to cut through
root infested soil. Sharpening won't hurt, unless you hit your foot of
course. ;-)

Tim

On 30/05/2013 21:23, MrWeld wrote:
I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
rather than cutting cleanly.

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

Digging holes Aussie style

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcGy1Z6m8iY

Colin Bignell

On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:23:23 +0100, MrWeld MrWeld wrote:

I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
rather than cutting cleanly.

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

Start with sharpening the spade, that should cope with thin roots. If
that fails look at a heavy azada for relatively shallow (25 cms)
holes or, for really stubborn roots a decent mattock. I use all three
depending on the size/depth of hole and density of roots.
--
rbel

On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:34:12 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/mzqjc7o


Or a mattock in English...

Regards
JonH

On 30/05/13 21:23, MrWeld wrote:
I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow
one for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
rather than cutting cleanly.

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of
a spade with an angle grinder?
that's one way. I often cut them with pruning shears


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 30/05/2013 21:24, Tim+ wrote:
MrWeld MrWeld wrote:
I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
rather than cutting cleanly.

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

I've used a two handled post hole digger very effectively to cut through
root infested soil. Sharpening won't hurt, unless you hit your foot of
course. ;-)

+1 & sharpen it with an angle grinder.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 31/05/2013 9:02 a.m., wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:34:12 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/mzqjc7o


Or a mattock in English...

Regards
JonH


Zappa in Italian.

Gib Bogle wrote:
On 31/05/2013 9:02 a.m., wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:34:12 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/mzqjc7o


Or a mattock in English...

Known as a Mad Axe when I used to do landscaping work...


Zappa in Italian.

Frank? Is that you?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 31/05/2013 10:40 a.m., John Williamson wrote:
Gib Bogle wrote:
On 31/05/2013 9:02 a.m., wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:34:12 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/mzqjc7o


Or a mattock in English...

Known as a Mad Axe when I used to do landscaping work...


Zappa in Italian.

Frank? Is that you?


Indeed, I am frank.

On May 30, 9:23*pm, MrWeld MrWeld wrote:
I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
rather than cutting cleanly.

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?Ads not by this site

What you need is a mattock. Like a pickaxe with a broad
chopping blade.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattock
You cut roots with the chopping bit.
Often see them at coar boot sales

On Friday, May 31, 2013 7:25:57 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:
On May 30, 9:23*pm, MrWeld MrWeld wrote:

I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree

roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one

for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make

progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil

rather than cutting cleanly.



What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of

spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a

spade with an angle grinder?Ads not by this site



What you need is a mattock. Like a pickaxe with a broad

chopping blade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattock

You cut roots with the chopping bit.

Often see them at coar boot sales

Or an Adze. You may need to cut along the length of the root rather than try to chop straight through it so whatever you decide on should have the head angled to allow this.

But having a mattcok I'd sharpen it well and keep it exclusively for cutting the roots as hitting stones with it will not improve its cutting ability

On 31/05/2013 08:21, fred wrote:
On Friday, May 31, 2013 7:25:57 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:
On May 30, 9:23 pm, MrWeld MrWeld wrote:

I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small
tree

roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy
narrow one

for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make

progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the
soil

rather than cutting cleanly.



What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special
kind of

spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the
edge of a

spade with an angle grinder?Ads not by this site



What you need is a mattock. Like a pickaxe with a broad

chopping blade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattock

You cut roots with the chopping bit.

Often see them at coar boot sales

Or an Adze. You may need to cut along the length of the root rather
than try to chop straight through it so whatever you decide on should
have the head angled to allow this.

But having a mattcok I'd sharpen it well and keep it exclusively for
cutting the roots as hitting stones with it will not improve its
cutting ability


I use a bolster (the long handled variety would make it easier) with a
club hammer. Then again it's a job I rarely need to do

On May 30, 10:23*pm, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2013 22:02:02 +0100, wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:34:12 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/mzqjc7o

Or a mattock in English...

Regards
JonH

Well, actually no. A mattock is a lighter tool. A grub axe has a heavy
mattock-type blade on one side, and an axe blade on the other.
Designed especially for grubbing out tree roots and stumps.

??
you describe two forms of mattock - pick & axe

Jim K

On 30/05/2013 21:23, MrWeld wrote:
I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
rather than cutting cleanly.

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

A grubbing mattock is the thing for digging in difficult soils. Chop up
an are with it first then shovel out, repeat as necessary.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 31 May 2013 11:41:09 +1200, Gib Bogle
wrote:

Zappa in Italian.

Frank? Is that you?


Indeed, I am frank.

Meet Ernest.

In article ,
says...

On 30/05/2013 21:23, MrWeld wrote:
I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
rather than cutting cleanly.

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

A grubbing mattock is the thing for digging in difficult soils. Chop up
an are with it first then shovel out, repeat as necessary.

I was digging a planting hole near some trees today & used a mattock to
get through the roots.

The tool I would really like now is something to scoop the loose soil
from the bottom of the planting hole. Something like a broad, scooped
trowel blade set at an angle to a 14 - 16 inch long handle.

--
Sam

On Thursday, May 30, 2013 9:23:23 PM UTC+1, MrWeld wrote:
I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree

roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one

for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make

progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil

rather than cutting cleanly.



What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of

spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a

spade with an angle grinder?

After years of experimenting the only tool I now use for digging down in difficult ground is a Post Hole Bar - Chisel End 7.7kg 1.75M. It will cut through anything and give you deep narrow holes if that's what you want.

Made out of tempered steel, it is also the best leverage bar for removing heavy stones or roots.

Sharpen with angle grinder as required.

I only wish I had got one 30 years earlier!

On Fri, 31 May 2013 19:01:49 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:



My understanding of a grub axe: http://tinypic.com/r/2qnd1d1/5
The handle is about as long as a pickaxe handle. The head on the one I
have is heavier than the one illustrated.

This is very similar to what I would call a mattock, as sold by our
local agricultural suppliers.


My understanding of a mattock: http://tinypic.com/r/2ziui4y/5
(the long handled one).

The long handled one is an azada, see
http://www.get-digging.co.uk/tools.htm for examples of varying weights
of them and, about 1/3 way down the page some of their mattocks.


Different folks may have different names for them.

That would seem to be the case.
--
rbel

On 31/05/2013 21:46, Sam Plusnet wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 30/05/2013 21:23, MrWeld wrote:
I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
rather than cutting cleanly.

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

A grubbing mattock is the thing for digging in difficult soils. Chop up
an are with it first then shovel out, repeat as necessary.

I was digging a planting hole near some trees today & used a mattock to
get through the roots.

The tool I would really like now is something to scoop the loose soil
from the bottom of the planting hole. Something like a broad, scooped
trowel blade set at an angle to a 14 - 16 inch long handle.

A hand hoe perhaps?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wooden-Handl..._sim_sbs_diy_1

or

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stainless-Ha.../dp/B000NNQZJ4

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
On 31/05/2013 21:46, Sam Plusnet wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 30/05/2013 21:23, MrWeld wrote:
I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
rather than cutting cleanly.

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

A grubbing mattock is the thing for digging in difficult soils. Chop up
an are with it first then shovel out, repeat as necessary.

I was digging a planting hole near some trees today & used a mattock to
get through the roots.

The tool I would really like now is something to scoop the loose soil
from the bottom of the planting hole. Something like a broad, scooped
trowel blade set at an angle to a 14 - 16 inch long handle.

A hand hoe perhaps?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wooden-Handl..._sim_sbs_diy_1

or

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stainless-Ha.../dp/B000NNQZJ4

A hand hoe sounds like just what I need, leastways at this time of night

On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:23:23 +0100, MrWeld MrWeld wrote:

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

Sharp spade or mattock, if it's clay it won't get blunt too soon.

I prefer the mattock as the spade gives me some sort of RSI of the
elbow.

Anyone seen or tried one of these?

http://www.theslammer.co.nz


AJH

On Fri, 31 May 2013 21:46:57 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 30/05/2013 21:23, MrWeld wrote:
I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
rather than cutting cleanly.

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

A grubbing mattock is the thing for digging in difficult soils. Chop up
an are with it first then shovel out, repeat as necessary.

I was digging a planting hole near some trees today & used a mattock to
get through the roots.

The tool I would really like now is something to scoop the loose soil
from the bottom of the planting hole. Something like a broad, scooped
trowel blade set at an angle to a 14 - 16 inch long handle.

My soil didn't have roots but was stony in places and one hole coincided
with an old hole. I did the loosening and breaking part with a big crowbar
(had it, so cheaper than buying the correct tool and only 6 holes to do)
then used one of these:
http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/190347
No good for straight digging, but really good for removing the soil.
TMH mentioned it, so thanks to him.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 01/06/2013 11:43, wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:23:23 +0100, MrWeld MrWeld wrote:

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

Sharp spade or mattock, if it's clay it won't get blunt too soon.

I prefer the mattock as the spade gives me some sort of RSI of the
elbow.

Anyone seen or tried one of these?

http://www.theslammer.co.nz


AJH

Interesting. Is the costume mandatory?

--
Rod

In article ,
says...

The tool I would really like now is something to scoop the loose soil
from the bottom of the planting hole. Something like a broad, scooped
trowel blade set at an angle to a 14 - 16 inch long handle.

A hand hoe perhaps?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wooden-Handl..._sim_sbs_diy_1

That's got something like the right length handle, but the blade is flat
whilst I want something scooped so the loose soil doesn't just fall off
as you lift it out of the hole. It also looks a bit hefty for something
which only needs deal with loose soil.

or

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stainless-Ha.../dp/B000NNQZJ4


That looks to be about the right sort of weight, but the blade is flat &
small, whilst the handle is too short.

Imagine a planting hole about a foot deep.
All the loose soil falls to the bottom as you deepen & widen the hole.
I want something to reach down there & scoop it out without having to
grovel too much.


--
Sam

On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 20:53:57 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:


Imagine a planting hole about a foot deep.
All the loose soil falls to the bottom as you deepen & widen the hole.
I want something to reach down there & scoop it out without having to
grovel too much.

I used my azada to do this afternoon, the hole was a bit deeper but it
works reasonably well, just place the edge of the blade at the far
side of the hole and drag it towards you. Some earth falls off but it
is more effective than using a spade. The only alternative that I can
think of is using a large catering ladle fixed to a wooden
pole/handle.
--
rbel

On 01/06/2013 12:28, polygonum wrote:
On 01/06/2013 11:43, wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:23:23 +0100, MrWeld MrWeld wrote:

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

Sharp spade or mattock, if it's clay it won't get blunt too soon.

I prefer the mattock as the spade gives me some sort of RSI of the
elbow.

Anyone seen or tried one of these?

http://www.theslammer.co.nz


AJH

Interesting. Is the costume mandatory?

Bit expensive for the sort of use I would make of one. Probably around £150.

--
Rod

In article , rbel says...

On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 20:53:57 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:


Imagine a planting hole about a foot deep.
All the loose soil falls to the bottom as you deepen & widen the hole.
I want something to reach down there & scoop it out without having to
grovel too much.

I used my azada to do this afternoon, the hole was a bit deeper but it
works reasonably well, just place the edge of the blade at the far
side of the hole and drag it towards you. Some earth falls off but it
is more effective than using a spade. The only alternative that I can
think of is using a large catering ladle fixed to a wooden
pole/handle.

I think an azada is going on my shopping list - provided that I can get
it in the shed along with all the other tools I've collected over the
years.

That catering ladle does sound about right as well - I wonder if they
come with long handles...

Off to do some research.

--
Sam

polygonum wrote:
On 01/06/2013 12:28, polygonum wrote:
On 01/06/2013 11:43, wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:23:23 +0100, MrWeld MrWeld wrote:

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

Sharp spade or mattock, if it's clay it won't get blunt too soon.

I prefer the mattock as the spade gives me some sort of RSI of the
elbow.

Anyone seen or tried one of these?

http://www.theslammer.co.nz


AJH

Interesting. Is the costume mandatory?

Bit expensive for the sort of use I would make of one. Probably around
£150.

What would O&HS make of the possibility of finger damage at the slide entry?

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 21:52:59 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:

In article , rbel says...

On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 20:53:57 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:

Imagine a planting hole about a foot deep.
All the loose soil falls to the bottom as you deepen & widen the hole.
I want something to reach down there & scoop it out without having to
grovel too much.

I used my azada to do this afternoon, the hole was a bit deeper but it
works reasonably well, just place the edge of the blade at the far
side of the hole and drag it towards you. Some earth falls off but it
is more effective than using a spade. The only alternative that I can
think of is using a large catering ladle fixed to a wooden
pole/handle.

I think an azada is going on my shopping list - provided that I can get
it in the shed along with all the other tools I've collected over the
years.

That catering ladle does sound about right as well - I wonder if they
come with long handles...

Off to do some research.

TMH recommended this one - and I can confirm that it's v. good for the loose
stuff:
http://search.wickes.co.uk/search?w=...0hole%20digger
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway