Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more.
Anyone know where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the manufacturers' websites.

On Fri, 17 May 2013 02:20:49 -0700 (PDT), cryptogram wrote:

Having recently installed solar panels

Another well off parasite.

To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as
knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running.

It will draw 2 kW when heating the water, naff all when standing, maybe a
100 or so W when washing with the pump running etc. ie it will wag about
all over the place.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 17/05/2013 10:20, cryptogram wrote:
Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more.
Anyone know where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the manufacturers' websites.


Think about how a washing machine works. You turn it on and a valve
opens to let water in, maybe 10 watts including the electronics. Then
the motor starts running slowly, maybe 100 watts. At some point the
heater element switches on, maybe 2 kW until the water is hot enough.
Further through the cycle you have the fast spin, the waste pump, maybe
you have hot or cold rinses.

In short, there is not a single figure. If you are determined to keep
the consumption below the panel you are going to have to monitor both
and suspend the machine if it needs "mains" (while maintaining supplies
to its electronics so that it knows where it is in the cycle, unless you
go for a machine with an entirely mechanical programmer).

On 17/05/2013 10:20, cryptogram wrote:
Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more.
Anyone know where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the manufacturers' websites.

I haven't seen that kind of information published anywhere.
You could collect this data using a single-socket energy monitor, or a
whole-house energy monitor.

For example, I ran my washing machine for about 2 hours yesterday
evening, and the resulting evening spike is aparent on this graph
generated from my "CurrentCost" monitor:

http://i44.tinypic.com/6p2pu8.png

The energy consumption seems to be heavily dependent on the wash
temperature, this was a 40 degree wash.

The max power will be on the rating plate. Beat in mind that the power
intake varies throughout its cycle so don't get too wound up by it. The
efficiency rating in the maker's spec takes into account the usage
throughout the cycle.
Perhaps you could measure how much power it uses in your regular cycle.

In article ,
says...

Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as knowing that
it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more.
Anyone know where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the manufacturers' websites.

One of these would allow you to measure the power being used:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plug-In-Power-and-Energy-
Monitor/dp/B000Q7PJGW#productDetails

On Friday, May 17, 2013 10:38:23 AM UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 17/05/2013 10:20, cryptogram wrote:

Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more.

Anyone know where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the manufacturers' websites.





Think about how a washing machine works.

In fact he should think about how any product works.
Even my computer uses more power as I turn the brighness up, and more power when I burn a DVD, it even uses more power when the disc spins...
Same coges for my TV regarding brightness and volume.
The same goes for cars and MPG it doesn't give you the whole story.
Spending more time at traffic lights tensds to mean you need more fuel for the journey and the more fule you carry and passengers and luggage them that will also reduce MPG.

I also think 'obese/fat' people should pay a surcharge on their flights while skinny people get a discount. :-)

On 17/05/2013 10:20, cryptogram wrote:
Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more.
Anyone know where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the manufacturers' websites.

Treat yourself to a plug in meter that you can plug the device into and
measure its actual consumption. Likely to be about 100W for the motor,
2-3kW when its heating up water and 500W for spin dry. It annoys me a
little bit that modern washing machines only accept cold water.

It doesn't present a steady fixed load.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Fri, 17 May 2013 12:07:02 +0100
Martin Brown wrote:


Treat yourself to a plug in meter that you can plug the device into
and measure its actual consumption. Likely to be about 100W for the
motor, 2-3kW when its heating up water and 500W for spin dry. It
annoys me a little bit that modern washing machines only accept cold
water.


Me too, but then it was pointed out that the reason is that modern
low-usage machines generally don't use enough water to get the hot
water down the supply pipe to the machine, which is certainly true in
this house, the route to the laundry room is several yards of pipe. But
then, it might be the case that the hot water tank and the washing
machine were in the same room, which would make the argument invalid.
--
Davey.

On 17/05/2013 12:05, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, May 17, 2013 10:38:23 AM UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 17/05/2013 10:20, cryptogram wrote:

Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more.

Anyone know where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the manufacturers' websites.





Think about how a washing machine works.

In fact he should think about how any product works.
Even my computer uses more power as I turn the brighness up, and more power when I burn a DVD, it even uses more power when the disc spins...
Same coges for my TV regarding brightness and volume.
The same goes for cars and MPG it doesn't give you the whole story.
Spending more time at traffic lights tensds to mean you need more fuel for the journey and the more fule you carry and passengers and luggage them that will also reduce MPG.

I also think 'obese/fat' people should pay a surcharge on their flights while skinny people get a discount. :-)


I felt a *simple* explanation was required here, one product at a time

:-)

On 17/05/2013 12:05, whisky-dave wrote:


I also think 'obese/fat' people should pay a surcharge on their flights while skinny people get a discount. :-)

Remember it is the skinny people who seem to be accompanied by a tonne
or more of luggage with at least 37 changes of clothing for a one week
holiday. Fat people (and I tend to consider myself in that camp) wear
what they are stood up in and carry a microbag with a toothbrush.

--
Rod

On 17/05/2013 12:07 Martin Brown wrote:

It annoys me a
little bit that modern washing machines only accept cold water.

The manufacturers say that the heating-up time presents a soak time that
is part of the washing process.

--
F

On 17/05/13 10:20, cryptogram wrote:
Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more.
Anyone know where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the manufacturers' websites.
Hint. Power consumption only affecs cable sizes. Energy consumption is
what you SHOULD be investigating.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 17/05/2013 12:05, whisky-dave wrote:
I also think 'obese/fat' people should pay a surcharge on their flights while skinny people get a discount.:-)

http://www.palgrave-journals.com/rpm/journal/v12/n2/full/rpm201247a.html

AKA

http://tinyurl.com/bwerxq9

We are not alone.

Andy

On 17/05/2013 12:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Hint. Power consumption only affecs cable sizes. Energy consumption is
what you SHOULD be investigating.

Not so. He wants to know if his panels will power the machine. So he
needs to know it will be sunny for the part of the cycle where it's
heating water, and not dark for the rest of it

Andy

cryptogram wrote:

Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling.

As others have said, the answer isn't that simple.

You might actually find it more informative to get kit like this:

http://i44.tinypic.com/6p2pu8.png
(actually temporarily unavailable right now)

which allows you to monitor the situation in real time.

Mine works reasonably, though the wireless link is not as good as
I would have liked.

Other makes are available.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On 17/05/2013 10:20, cryptogram wrote:

Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the
power consumption of various equipment in the house and am
struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair
enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch
dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so
you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same
thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same
thing as knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually
running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know

Its not even that simple... the DW will take the most current when
heating the water, and vastly less when washing. So even if you can't
meet the peak current demand, yo may be able to more than meet the
overall demand. That would mean that you could consume all of your solar
energy in the house somewhere and offset the small period of time that
you need grid assistance for the heating.

whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a
lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether
we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more. Anyone know
where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the
manufacturers' websites.

Get a plug in power meter if it bothers you that much. Most can be set
to read instant current or power demand.


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 17/05/2013 13:05, Andy Champ wrote:
On 17/05/2013 12:05, whisky-dave wrote:
I also think 'obese/fat' people should pay a surcharge on their
flights while skinny people get a discount.:-)

http://www.palgrave-journals.com/rpm/journal/v12/n2/full/rpm201247a.html

AKA

http://tinyurl.com/bwerxq9

We are not alone.

You can have a discount so long as you agree to sit between two fatties...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/05/2013 12:15, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 12:07:02 +0100
Martin Brown wrote:


Treat yourself to a plug in meter that you can plug the device into
and measure its actual consumption. Likely to be about 100W for the
motor, 2-3kW when its heating up water and 500W for spin dry. It
annoys me a little bit that modern washing machines only accept cold
water.


Me too, but then it was pointed out that the reason is that modern
low-usage machines generally don't use enough water to get the hot
water down the supply pipe to the machine, which is certainly true in
this house, the route to the laundry room is several yards of pipe. But
then, it might be the case that the hot water tank and the washing
machine were in the same room, which would make the argument invalid.

There is the secondary argument that starting a wash with cold water is
actually better at shifting high protein content stains as well. A burst
of hot water prior to soaking in detergent a bit may just set them.


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/05/2013 13:07, Andy Champ wrote:
On 17/05/2013 12:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Hint. Power consumption only affecs cable sizes. Energy consumption is
what you SHOULD be investigating.

Not so. He wants to know if his panels will power the machine. So he
needs to know it will be sunny for the part of the cycle where it's
heating water, and not dark for the rest of it

I would have though you would be better off having econmy7 or similar
with a PV system. Then you can schedule all your heavy appliances to run
overnight on cheap rate juice, and sell all your generated power to the
grid at whatever multiple of its actual value you have managed to get.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, May 17, 2013 10:20:49 AM UTC+1, cryptogram wrote:
Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more.

Anyone know where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the manufacturers' websites.

Thanks for all this. I am aware that the power consumption varies throughout the cycle, but I didn't know what it peaked at or for how long. I think the essence of the issue is simply to start it up and have done with it!

On Friday, May 17, 2013 1:52:44 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/05/2013 13:07, Andy Champ wrote:

On 17/05/2013 12:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Hint. Power consumption only affecs cable sizes. Energy consumption is

what you SHOULD be investigating.



Not so. He wants to know if his panels will power the machine. So he

needs to know it will be sunny for the part of the cycle where it's

heating water, and not dark for the rest of it



I would have though you would be better off having econmy7 or similar

with a PV system. Then you can schedule all your heavy appliances to run

overnight on cheap rate juice, and sell all your generated power to the

grid at whatever multiple of its actual value you have managed to get.





--

Cheers,



John.



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\================================================= ================/

I do have Economy 7 and used to do just what you've said. However, E7 is not free whereas SV electricity is. But there's got to be enough of it to power the appliance properly, which is where we came in. The SV has a fee-in tariff (currently 15.44p/kwh) which you get whether or not you use the electricity or just pump it into the grid. So it comes down to whether the amount that you get per unit (on top of the feed-in tariff) is more or less than the E7 rate. They are similar. So I feel it's best to generate ALL the electricity consumed - rather than some of it and buy the rest back. However you look at it it's a complicated calculation and thrown out by a cloud that comes across the sun. If it's a fine sunny day then it's a no-brainer.

On 17/05/2013 14:36, cryptogram wrote:
On Friday, May 17, 2013 1:52:44 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/05/2013 13:07, Andy Champ wrote:

On 17/05/2013 12:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Hint. Power consumption only affecs cable sizes. Energy
consumption is

what you SHOULD be investigating.



Not so. He wants to know if his panels will power the machine. So
he

needs to know it will be sunny for the part of the cycle where
it's

heating water, and not dark for the rest of it



I would have though you would be better off having econmy7 or
similar
with a PV system. Then you can schedule all your heavy appliances
to run
overnight on cheap rate juice, and sell all your generated power to
the
grid at whatever multiple of its actual value you have managed to
get.

Firstly appreciate my comment was somewhat tongue in cheek...

I do have Economy 7 and used to do just what you've said. However, E7
is not free whereas SV electricity is. But there's got to be enough

I was under the impression that with a fully metered PV system you got a
FiT payment for every kWh generated, and then an additional export
payment for selling "unused" electricity to the grid. If you have a
tariff where you can sell a PV unit for less or similar than the cost of
buying a cheap rate one, then presumably you are (financially) better
off that way.

of it to power the appliance properly, which is where we came in. The
SV has a fee-in tariff (currently 15.44p/kwh) which you get whether
or not you use the electricity or just pump it into the grid. So it
comes down to whether the amount that you get per unit (on top of the
feed-in tariff) is more or less than the E7 rate. They are similar.

In the grand scheme of things the main "win" seems to be access to the
subsidy rather than the rather that the actual value of the electricity
itself...

So I feel it's best to generate ALL the electricity consumed - rather
than some of it and buy the rest back. However you look at it it's a
complicated calculation and thrown out by a cloud that comes across
the sun. If it's a fine sunny day then it's a no-brainer.

You also need to factor in when you will need access to clean dishes /
clothes etc at some point. Remember we live in the UK, and waiting for a
sunny day to do the washing might cause more issues than just the cost
of the electricity.


--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

On Friday, May 17, 2013 12:07:02 PM UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
On 17/05/2013 10:20, cryptogram wrote:

Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more.

Anyone know where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the manufacturers' websites.



Treat yourself to a plug in meter that you can plug the device into and

measure its actual consumption. Likely to be about 100W for the motor,

2-3kW when its heating up water and 500W for spin dry.

I have one of the Maplin ones and it can measure the amount of power over time rather than just the current power being drawn.
With that you can find out exactly how many watts a device uses over a period of time, ideal for finding out the power used by washing machines and other devices who's load changes with time.


It annoys me a

little bit that modern washing machines only accept cold water.

The excuse I heard was that with teh cooler temperature washing cycles such as 40C the water is too hot to start with and needs cooling and that mnakes them inefficient on those cycles, although I think cutting cost on having two holes adn selecting was just as important to the manufactuers.




It doesn't present a steady fixed load.



--

Regards,

Martin Brown

On Friday, May 17, 2013 12:25:45 PM UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 17/05/2013 12:05, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, May 17, 2013 10:38:23 AM UTC+1, newshound wrote:

On 17/05/2013 10:20, cryptogram wrote:



Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more.



Anyone know where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the manufacturers' websites.











Think about how a washing machine works.



In fact he should think about how any product works.

Even my computer uses more power as I turn the brighness up, and more power when I burn a DVD, it even uses more power when the disc spins...

Same coges for my TV regarding brightness and volume.

The same goes for cars and MPG it doesn't give you the whole story.

Spending more time at traffic lights tensds to mean you need more fuel for the journey and the more fule you carry and passengers and luggage them that will also reduce MPG.



I also think 'obese/fat' people should pay a surcharge on their flights while skinny people get a discount. :-)





I felt a *simple* explanation was required here, one product at a time

Well you'd also have to consider that if your household consisted of larger individuals then their clothes are also likley to be larger meaning less garments fit in the machine per wash, so you'll need more washing cycles in those caes which will cost more, but not relivant on the peak power suplied to the washing machine, in that case the users pays more to wash more stuff, which seems fair.





:-)

On May 17, 10:20*am, cryptogram wrote:
Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more.
Anyone know where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the manufacturers' websites.Ads not by this site

Best thing to do is buy one of these "Killawatt" (or similar) plug in
energy measuring devices.
They may lend them out at your local library.
The stuff to watch out for is appliances on in the evening, eg the
plasma TV.

I have a 3.88Kwp PV array, I have only managed to cut around
25% off my electric bill.
Helps if you are retired & can do things through the day.

On May 17, 1:52*pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/05/2013 13:07, Andy Champ wrote:

On 17/05/2013 12:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Hint. Power consumption only affecs cable sizes. Energy consumption is
what you SHOULD be investigating.

Not so. He wants to know if his panels will power the machine. So he
needs to know it will be sunny for the part of the cycle where it's
heating water, and not dark for the rest of it

I would have though you would be better off having econmy7 or similar
with a PV system. Then you can schedule all your heavy appliances to run
overnight on cheap rate juice, and sell all your generated power to the
grid at whatever multiple of its actual value you have managed to get.

--
Tch.
You get paid for what you generate whether
you use it yourself or not.
There is no export meter.

On May 17, 2:36*pm, cryptogram wrote:
On Friday, May 17, 2013 1:52:44 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/05/2013 13:07, Andy Champ wrote:

On 17/05/2013 12:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Hint. Power consumption only affecs cable sizes. Energy consumption is

what you SHOULD be investigating.

Not so. He wants to know if his panels will power the machine. So he

needs to know it will be sunny for the part of the cycle where it's

heating water, and not dark for the rest of it

I would have though you would be better off having econmy7 or similar

with a PV system. Then you can schedule all your heavy appliances to run

overnight on cheap rate juice, and sell all your generated power to the

grid at whatever multiple of its actual value you have managed to get.

--

Cheers,

John.

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I do have Economy 7 and used to do just what you've said. However, E7 is not free whereas SV electricity is. But there's got to be enough of it to power the appliance properly, which is where we came in. The SV has a fee-in tariff (currently 15.44p/kwh) which you get whether or not you use the electricity or just pump it into the grid. So it comes down to whether the amount that you get per unit (on top of the feed-in tariff) is more or less than the E7 rate. They are similar. So I feel it's best to generate ALL the electricity consumed - rather than some of it and buy the rest back. However you look at it it's a complicated calculation and thrown out by a cloud that comes across the sun. If it's a fine sunny day then it's a no-brainer.

If you have economy 7 unless you have biggish night loads you end up
paying more overall.
When you have E7, they charge you more for the day rate than "normal"
electricty supply.

So you need to sharpen your pencil & find out what your bill would be
on the single day rate.

This is especially true now you have the PV power.
It is hard to assess how much of the power you generate you use
yourself and how much is exported unless you get your own export
meter. Most clip on meters are not direction sensitive BTW.

On 17/05/2013 10:20, cryptogram wrote:
Having recently installed solar panels I'm now searching for the power consumption of various equipment in the house and am struggling. For example, our kettle says it's 3 kilowatt. Fair enough, but I cannot find the power consumption of our Bosch dishwasher. It seems these days that you get told an energy rating so you can compare one machine with another, but that's not the same thing. To know that it consumes 2 kwh to do a wash is not the same thing as knowing that it consumes 2 kw (or whatever) while actually running. One needs to know how much it consumes while running to know whether the solar panels, whose spot generation is known and varies a lot during most days, will power the machine for free or whether we've got to wait a bit for the sun to come out more.
Anyone know where proper info can be got? I haven't been able to get it from the manufacturers' websites.



With a dishwasher/washing machine there will not be one power
consumption figure. The power it takes will be dependant on the program
that it is running - heating cycle, rinse cycle, long wash, short wash
etc. and in the case of a washing machine how hot the water during a wash.

For a fridge freezer it may depend more on how it is loaded, how often
the door is opened or the ambient temperature of the room.

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On 17/05/2013 12:07, Martin Brown wrote:


Treat yourself to a plug in meter that you can plug the device into and
measure its actual consumption. Likely to be about 100W for the motor,
2-3kW when its heating up water and 500W for spin dry. It annoys me a
little bit that modern washing machines only accept cold water.

That's because for most washes you only need the water temperature to be
around 15C.


--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On Friday, May 17, 2013 5:23:54 PM UTC+1, harry wrote:
On May 17, 1:52*pm, John Rumm wrote:

On 17/05/2013 13:07, Andy Champ wrote:



On 17/05/2013 12:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Hint. Power consumption only affecs cable sizes. Energy consumption is

what you SHOULD be investigating.



Not so. He wants to know if his panels will power the machine. So he

needs to know it will be sunny for the part of the cycle where it's

heating water, and not dark for the rest of it



I would have though you would be better off having econmy7 or similar

with a PV system. Then you can schedule all your heavy appliances to run

overnight on cheap rate juice, and sell all your generated power to the

grid at whatever multiple of its actual value you have managed to get.



--

Tch.

You get paid for what you generate whether

you use it yourself or not.

There is no export meter.

You do, though. You get paid a 'deemed' amount on top of the feed in tariff.. It's a calculated proportion.

On 17/05/2013 17:29, harry wrote:
On May 17, 2:36 pm, cryptogram wrote:


I do have Economy 7 and used to do just what you've said. However, E7 is not free whereas SV electricity is. But there's got to be enough of it to power the appliance properly, which is where we came in. The SV has a fee-in tariff (currently 15.44p/kwh) which you get whether or not you use the electricity or just pump it into the grid. So it comes down to whether the amount that you get per unit (on top of the feed-in tariff) is more or less than the E7 rate. They are similar. So I feel it's best to generate ALL the electricity consumed - rather than some of it and buy the rest back. However you look at it it's a complicated calculation and thrown out by a cloud that comes across the sun. If it's a fine sunny day then it's a no-brainer.

If you have economy 7 unless you have biggish night loads you end up
paying more overall.
When you have E7, they charge you more for the day rate than "normal"
electricty supply.

They normally charge the same day rate, but a higher standing charge (or
you need to buy more full price units prior to getting the discount rate
on "no standing charge" tariffs).


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 17/05/2013 17:23, harry wrote:
On May 17, 1:52 pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/05/2013 13:07, Andy Champ wrote:

On 17/05/2013 12:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Hint. Power consumption only affecs cable sizes. Energy consumption is
what you SHOULD be investigating.

Not so. He wants to know if his panels will power the machine. So he
needs to know it will be sunny for the part of the cycle where it's
heating water, and not dark for the rest of it

I would have though you would be better off having econmy7 or similar
with a PV system. Then you can schedule all your heavy appliances to run
overnight on cheap rate juice, and sell all your generated power to the
grid at whatever multiple of its actual value you have managed to get.

--
Tch.
You get paid for what you generate whether
you use it yourself or not.
There is no export meter.

If you don't have export metering, then I was under the impression they
simply made a block allowance for a percentage being exported...
otherwise how would you decide what additional payment to make for
exported units?


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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F news@nowhere writes:

On 17/05/2013 12:07 Martin Brown wrote:

It annoys me a
little bit that modern washing machines only accept cold water.

The manufacturers say that the heating-up time presents a soak time that
is part of the washing process.

Washers are now designed to use so little water (except for later
rinsing) that taking in water from the hot water supply will often
only get cold water (cooled down by being in the pipe to the machine
for a long time). So there's no point in spending money on parts that
don't perform a useful function.

AIUI




--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ O n e t e l . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

Andy Champ writes:

On 17/05/2013 12:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Hint. Power consumption only affecs cable sizes. Energy consumption is
what you SHOULD be investigating.

Not so. He wants to know if his panels will power the machine. So he
needs to know it will be sunny for the part of the cycle where it's
heating water, and not dark for the rest of it

Would have to be a big array if it was going to generate about 3KW from
UK sunlight?

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ O n e t e l . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

On May 17, 10:03*pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/05/2013 17:23, harry wrote:









On May 17, 1:52 pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/05/2013 13:07, Andy Champ wrote:

On 17/05/2013 12:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Hint. Power consumption only affecs cable sizes. Energy consumption is
what you SHOULD be investigating.

Not so. He wants to know if his panels will power the machine. So he
needs to know it will be sunny for the part of the cycle where it's
heating water, and not dark for the rest of it

I would have though you would be better off having econmy7 or similar
with a PV system. Then you can schedule all your heavy appliances to run
overnight on cheap rate juice, and sell all your generated power to the
grid at whatever multiple of its actual value you have managed to get.

--
Tch.
You get paid for what you generate whether
you use it yourself or not.
There is no export meter.

If you don't have export metering, then I was under the impression they
simply made a block allowance for a percentage being exported...
otherwise how would you decide what additional payment to make for
exported units?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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\================================================= ================/

It has been deemed too expensive to fit export meters for
small arrays. There is a meter on the array.

So you get paid for all you generate plus a small additional
amount for 50% of what you generate.
This is on the assumption you consume 50% of the generated
power yourself.

So whether you use the power yourself or not, you get
paid the same money.
It's all about cutting energy imports to the country so
they don't worry about who uses the power.
Most people with PV power tend to be efficient
users of power anyway.

When smart meters come into general use,all
this may change.

On May 18, 3:06*am, (Windmill)
wrote:
Andy Champ writes:
On 17/05/2013 12:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Hint. Power consumption only affecs cable sizes. Energy consumption is
what you SHOULD be investigating.
Not so. He wants to know if his panels will power the machine. So he
needs to know it will be sunny for the part of the cycle where it's
heating water, and not dark for the rest of it

Would have to be a big array if it was going to generate about 3KW from
UK sunlight?

--
Windmill, * * * * * * * Use *t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * @ O n e t e l . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

You get about 1Kw (peak) for every 5m2 of solar panels.
(using polycrystaline panels)

The money paid is banded depending on the power of the array. 0-4Kw is
the smallest band so many domestic arrays
are just under 4Kw.

On 17/05/2013 18:45, alan wrote:
On 17/05/2013 12:07, Martin Brown wrote:


Treat yourself to a plug in meter that you can plug the device into and
measure its actual consumption. Likely to be about 100W for the motor,
2-3kW when its heating up water and 500W for spin dry. It annoys me a
little bit that modern washing machines only accept cold water.

That's because for most washes you only need the water temperature to be
around 15C.

Japanese domestic washing machines use that approach or did when we
lived there. The results were complete rubbish. They were also a very
good example of weird low tech gear in a high tech country. Homes all
came with a washing machine drip tray plumbed into the drains because
the things malfunctioned and spilled their contents so often!!!

Ours came with the latest in "fuzzy logic" which was all the rage back
then but merely made the contraptions behaviour even less predictable.


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 18/05/2013 08:38, Martin Brown wrote:
On 17/05/2013 18:45, alan wrote:


That's because for most washes you only need the water temperature to be
around 15C.

Japanese domestic washing machines use that approach or did when we
lived there.

In my experience cold washes work well (using own brand Aldi washing
liquid that says it works at 15C). The machine will go through an
occasional 90C wash with towels (or just washing soda) to keep it free
of stale detergent etc.



--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On Saturday, May 18, 2013 3:06:55 AM UTC+1, Windmill wrote:
Andy Champ writes:



On 17/05/2013 12:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Hint. Power consumption only affecs cable sizes. Energy consumption is

what you SHOULD be investigating.



Not so. He wants to know if his panels will power the machine. So he

needs to know it will be sunny for the part of the cycle where it's

heating water, and not dark for the rest of it



Would have to be a big array if it was going to generate about 3KW from

UK sunlight?



--

Windmill, Use t m i l l

J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ O n e t e l . c o m

All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

16 panels (two arrays of eight). Does over 3kw on a sunny day.