Thanks both, got it out now, and can put up a pic if it's of interest.
However, I can't solve the problem I was hoping to solve, because the
dickheads have somehow jammed the cable that goes down to the switch,
I think with plaster where it goes through a batten, so, unless I can
think of a way of freeing it, I can't use it to pull through another
cable :-(

On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 14:15:50 +0100, Java Jive
wrote:

This downlighter is the only possible access above a ceiling.

http://www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/DownLighter1.jpg
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/DownLighter2.jpg

Can anyone tell me whether I can get it out of the ceiling:
Without breaking it?
Being able to put it back?

If so, how exactly? I presume that I have to get the plastic clips
off the tags in the side of the cylindrical bit, but how would I get
them back on again?

The label reads:
RING LIGHTING ART NO. 5088
240V - MAX 100W

TIA
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

On Apr 9, 6:18*pm, Java Jive wrote:
Thanks both, got it out now, and can put up a pic if it's of interest.
However, I can't solve the problem I was hoping to solve, because the
dickheads have somehow jammed the cable that goes down to the switch,
I think with plaster where it goes through a batten, so, unless I can
think of a way of freeing it, I can't use it to pull through another
cable :-(

scant info to work off but:-

how many cables to this light? how many lights off *that* switch?

If one cable, (and/or more than one light) then that cable won't lead
to the switch anyway? more likely a junction box linking all together
with the loop etc?

how old is house? and wiring?

Jim K

This is the porch annexe in my new old house.

AFAICT, it's a traditional dwelling with walls about a metre thick
probably for which, many years ago, one end would have been for
livestock, the other for people, though it is significantly larger
than most of this type. Now, roughly speaking, it's been divided into
three crossways - this room which is currently a good-sized
kitchen/diner, the old kitchen which is currently a utility room (and
the hall corridor and stairs), and an equally good-sized sitting-room
at the other end - and into two height ways - giving two large and
one rather small bedrooms, and a bathroom. Onto the back of this,
under a sloping roof, has been added a shower-room, and a porch, which
leads into the old kitchen, currently the utility room.

It's this latter area we are discussing.

The problem is that idiots have confusingly wired the outside light to
a two gang switch by the door into the shower, and the interior light
for the porch itself to a one-gang switch by the front door. Thus
I've been absent-mindedly trying switches to find the one I want. I
want to pull up the wiring to the outside light switch and pull it
down by the front door, and swap the switch units around, resulting in
a logical arrangement where the outside light switch is the one
nearest the outside (ding!), and the porch light next to it, and the
shower switch is by itself on the other side of the porch.

That would then also leave me free to put the light switch inside the
shower-room on a pull, if I should choose to do so, though I may not,
as there is a toilet just inside the door where the pull string would
most logically have to dangle, so it would have to go by the other
wall a metre away from the door, which is also not ideal, so I'll
probably just leave the shower switch where it is, having removed the
main cause of confusion.

I was planning to achieve this relaying of the cables by attaching
some wire or string to the existing cable from the porch light to its
switch, then use that existing cable to pull the wire down to the
switch, then use that wire to pull both the existing porch and the
exterior light cabling down together.

I'm so close to being able to do it too ...

By groping above the ceiling through the hole for the downlighter, I
can feel that its existing cabling to the switch goes through a
sizable circular hole in the same vertical plasterboard upon which the
switch itself is mounted before dropping down to it, so there's no
problem there. However, as indicated, by looking upwards from the
switch using a small mirror and a torch, I can see that the wire goes
through a batten with no apparent hole for it - I suspect they cut a
slot in the front of the batten just deep enough to accommodate the
one cable, and further there are globules of plaster there, which seem
to be holding it fast.

So, unless I can think of a way of making a decent sized hole through
the batten from the cutout for the light switch, and I can't, I'm not
going to be able to get another cable past it without some destruction
of the existing decor, which I'd rather avoid.

"Answers on a postcard, please!"

B****r!

It's like the shower and the washing machine - everything I have
tried to improve or fix has come to nothing so far!

On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 11:21:00 -0700 (PDT), Jim K
wrote:

how many cables to this light? how many lights off *that* switch?

[Etc]
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

On Apr 9, 9:30*pm, Java Jive wrote:
(snip)

On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 11:21:00 -0700 (PDT), Jim K
wrote:



how many cables to this light? how many lights off *that* switch?
[Etc]

snipped presumably as you didn't actually answer any of my queries?

Best of Blitish ;)

Jim K

I didn't think your questions were very relevant as I can see the
wiring is (almost) as I had expected before starting out, and I did
try and answer your question about the age of the property. I have no
idea how old the wiring is, but probably not more than about 10-15
years.

So ...

There's only the one light, the downlighter, off the porch interior
light switch. Power goes to a pendant batten fitting, from which
comes the descender to the switch and, out of the pendant hole, the
cable to the downlighter itself.

There is also just one outside light controlled by the outside light
switch. As I correctly guessed, the cable is visible from the
downlighter hole crossing over to the wrong side of the porch to
descend to its switch. Power comes from the power to the shower room
light switch via a short live jumper, whereas I was expecting it to go
to a junction box just inside the wall from the light, with the usual
descender to the switch. That was the only real surprise.

On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 14:06:42 -0700 (PDT), Jim K
wrote:

snipped presumably as you didn't actually answer any of my queries?
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

On Apr 9, 10:28*pm, Java Jive wrote:
snip

fine - crack on then ;)

Jim K

So the question becomes ...

How to drill a hole through a batten behind plasterboard, about 5 or
6mm in diameter, about 600mm up from the top edge of a light switch
hole

.... given at least the following ...

Auger bit with brace shank of about the right size
Drill bit with full shank of about the right size
Drill bit with stepped shank of about the right size
A brace
A hand drill
An electric drill
1/2" square drive socket set which includes
6" extension
4" extension
Knuckle joint extension
Ratchet handle

.... plus any other purchasable items not coming to more than, say,
£15?

Can it be done? Get yer lateral thinking caps on!

Putting the bits of socket set together reaches at least about
260-270mm. I could possibly borrow further 1/2" extensions from a
local farm or my neighbours. I've been sifting through online
catalogues for a suitable convertor which would allow me to put a
drill or auger bit on the end, but can't see anything suitable.
However, perhaps others with more experience would know where to look?

On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 18:18:31 +0100, Java Jive
wrote:

However, I can't solve the problem I was hoping to solve, because the
dickheads have somehow jammed the cable that goes down to the switch,
I think with plaster where it goes through a batten, so, unless I can
think of a way of freeing it, I can't use it to pull through another
cable :-(
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

On 10/04/2013 18:27, Java Jive wrote:
So the question becomes ...

How to drill a hole through a batten behind plasterboard, about 5 or
6mm in diameter, about 600mm up from the top edge of a light switch
hole

Spade bit and a couple of 600mm spade bit extensions. That will let you
get the bit in at a shallow enough angle.

Or for a brute force approach, a 1m 16mm SDS bit, will allow you to
introduce enough flex in the bit to get a hole parallel to the wall.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._and_skirtings

Failing that, a multimaster type tool will let you take out a section of
plasterboard with a very narrow kerf cut, that makes replacing the
removed bit quite easy, and the join easy to disguise.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/