I am going to have a kitchen extension which will require some electrical
work. The Building Inspector will want a Part P Certificate on completion.

Will the electician who does the work on the extension have to inspect the
whole house? I am just a little concerned that my bathroom light may not be
compliant.

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 10:02 DerbyBorn wrote in uk.d-i-y:

I am going to have a kitchen extension which will require some electrical
work. The Building Inspector will want a Part P Certificate on completion.

Will the electician who does the work on the extension have to inspect the
whole house? I am just a little concerned that my bathroom light may not
be compliant.

Terminology:

There is no such thing as a "Part P certificate".

There's a Minor Works Certificate and an Electrical Installation
Certificate; both are IET (what was called the IEE) forms.

The electrician should complete one or the other as appropriate for the job.

What a *registered* electrician can do is to self-notify the job as
completed to the required standard directly to the Building Control dept via
his registered body which can be one of these:

http://www.mylocalelectrician.co.uk/...ng-bodies-and-
competent-person-scheme-providers

(Not sure if that list is bang upto date - first one I found).

In your case, the electrician will only notify his own work but he will have
to check some core stuff, notably earth provisioning, bonding and RCD for
the affected circuit (if fitted).

So, no, he will not check the other circuits in your house - only the ones
relevant to the kicthen work.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

In your case, the electrician will only notify his own work but he
will have to check some core stuff, notably earth provisioning,
bonding and RCD for the affected circuit (if fitted).

So, no, he will not check the other circuits in your house - only the
ones relevant to the kicthen work.


Thanks - the actual wording from the Building Control calls for "We also
require the following documentation before a final certificate is issued:
"Electrical Certificates for Part P""

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 12:39 DerbyBorn wrote in uk.d-i-y:



In your case, the electrician will only notify his own work but he
will have to check some core stuff, notably earth provisioning,
bonding and RCD for the affected circuit (if fitted).

So, no, he will not check the other circuits in your house - only the
ones relevant to the kicthen work.


Thanks - the actual wording from the Building Control calls for "We also
require the following documentation before a final certificate is issued:
"Electrical Certificates for Part P""

That's slightly different wording to yours.

They mean "we want a MWC, EIC or PIR cert (whatever that just got renamed
to) along with (where appropriate) the registered body's bumpf.

I'm supplying my BCO with a full EIC - when I'm done.

My EIC will cover work done over about 3 years (longest EIC ever?), so in
the spirit of things, I will restest the earlier circuits (being ring mains
and **** easy to test) and use the latest results, so the date is actually
realistic

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Tim Watts wrote:

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 10:02 DerbyBorn wrote in uk.d-i-y:

I am going to have a kitchen extension which will require some electrical
work. The Building Inspector will want a Part P Certificate on completion.

Will the electician who does the work on the extension have to inspect the
whole house? I am just a little concerned that my bathroom light may not
be compliant.

Terminology:

There is no such thing as a "Part P certificate".

Err, yes there is.
If you self-certify, the Governing Body will produce it and send it to
the Client.
On the top of mine reads: " Building Regs Part P compliance
Certificate."

The Building Inspector has no need to see the Installation Certificates
if you have the Part P compliance Cert.


--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 16:54 A.Lee wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Tim Watts wrote:

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 10:02 DerbyBorn wrote in uk.d-i-y:

I am going to have a kitchen extension which will require some
electrical work. The Building Inspector will want a Part P Certificate
on completion.

Will the electician who does the work on the extension have to inspect
the whole house? I am just a little concerned that my bathroom light
may not be compliant.

Terminology:

There is no such thing as a "Part P certificate".

Err, yes there is.
If you self-certify, the Governing Body will produce it and send it to
the Client.
On the top of mine reads: " Building Regs Part P compliance
Certificate."

The Building Inspector has no need to see the Installation Certificates
if you have the Part P compliance Cert.



OK - I stand corrected... Too many years of people emphasising "Part P
compliant" instead of IEE/IET Regs compliant which is what actually
matters...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 19 February 2013 12:39 DerbyBorn wrote in uk.d-i-y:



In your case, the electrician will only notify his own work but he
will have to check some core stuff, notably earth provisioning,
bonding and RCD for the affected circuit (if fitted).

So, no, he will not check the other circuits in your house - only
the ones relevant to the kicthen work.


Thanks - the actual wording from the Building Control calls for "We
also require the following documentation before a final certificate
is issued: "Electrical Certificates for Part P""

That's slightly different wording to yours.

They mean "we want a MWC, EIC or PIR cert (whatever that just got
renamed to) along with (where appropriate) the registered body's
bumpf.

I'm supplying my BCO with a full EIC - when I'm done.

So that will be the 19th edition regs then;-)

--
Adam

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 17:56 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 19 February 2013 12:39 DerbyBorn wrote in uk.d-i-y:



In your case, the electrician will only notify his own work but he
will have to check some core stuff, notably earth provisioning,
bonding and RCD for the affected circuit (if fitted).

So, no, he will not check the other circuits in your house - only
the ones relevant to the kicthen work.


Thanks - the actual wording from the Building Control calls for "We
also require the following documentation before a final certificate
is issued: "Electrical Certificates for Part P""

That's slightly different wording to yours.

They mean "we want a MWC, EIC or PIR cert (whatever that just got
renamed to) along with (where appropriate) the registered body's
bumpf.

I'm supplying my BCO with a full EIC - when I'm done.

So that will be the 19th edition regs then;-)


*ping* there goes another rib

;-


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 19 February 2013 17:56 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 19 February 2013 12:39 DerbyBorn wrote in uk.d-i-y:



In your case, the electrician will only notify his own work
but he will have to check some core stuff, notably earth
provisioning, bonding and RCD for the affected circuit (if
fitted).

So, no, he will not check the other circuits in your house -
only the ones relevant to the kicthen work.


Thanks - the actual wording from the Building Control calls for
"We also require the following documentation before a final
certificate is issued: "Electrical Certificates for Part P""

That's slightly different wording to yours.

They mean "we want a MWC, EIC or PIR cert (whatever that just got
renamed to) along with (where appropriate) the registered body's
bumpf.

I'm supplying my BCO with a full EIC - when I'm done.

So that will be the 19th edition regs then;-)


*ping* there goes another rib

;-

It only took me 5 years to put the CU blanks in my CU. And I only did that
because I was kitten fostering and the little sods could get anywhere.

--
Adam

Tim Watts writes:

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 12:39 DerbyBorn wrote in uk.d-i-y:



In your case, the electrician will only notify his own work but he
will have to check some core stuff, notably earth provisioning,
bonding and RCD for the affected circuit (if fitted).

So, no, he will not check the other circuits in your house - only the
ones relevant to the kicthen work.


Thanks - the actual wording from the Building Control calls for "We also
require the following documentation before a final certificate is issued:
"Electrical Certificates for Part P""

That's slightly different wording to yours.

They mean "we want a MWC, EIC or PIR cert (whatever that just got renamed
to) along with (where appropriate) the registered body's bumpf.

I'm supplying my BCO with a full EIC - when I'm done.

My EIC will cover work done over about 3 years (longest EIC ever?), so in
the spirit of things, I will restest the earlier circuits (being ring mains
and **** easy to test) and use the latest results, so the date is actually
realistic

Will the BCO not mind? I vaguely remember something about a 2 year time
limit?

If not, surely you could submit a preemptive notification listing
everything under the sun, pay the fees once, and then spend the next 20
years gradually doing the work as you fancied. Then, when the time
comes to sell the house, call up the BCO and get them to sign off the
work you've done. One set of fees paid for 20 years.

Alex

--
Swish - Easy SFTP for Windows Explorer (http://www.swish-sftp.org)

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 18:30 Alexander Lamaison wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Will the BCO not mind? I vaguely remember something about a 2 year time
limit?

There's no time limit to complete. The BCO told me. I think the 2 years is
the time to start after notifying.

If not, surely you could submit a preemptive notification listing
everything under the sun, pay the fees once, and then spend the next 20
years gradually doing the work as you fancied. Then, when the time
comes to sell the house, call up the BCO and get them to sign off the
work you've done. One set of fees paid for 20 years.

Basically - yes.

The danger is the 4th sucessor of the original BCO doesn't know what's going
on, wants to look at everything again (that you covered up) and makes you do
stuff to the latest regs because he doesn;t know what the regs were 15 years
back :-o

Tim Watts writes:

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 18:30 Alexander Lamaison wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Will the BCO not mind? I vaguely remember something about a 2 year time
limit?

There's no time limit to complete. The BCO told me. I think the 2 years is
the time to start after notifying.

Time to start? How would they know?

If not, surely you could submit a preemptive notification listing
everything under the sun, pay the fees once, and then spend the next 20
years gradually doing the work as you fancied. Then, when the time
comes to sell the house, call up the BCO and get them to sign off the
work you've done. One set of fees paid for 20 years.

Basically - yes.

Excellent. I'd happily notify BCO if it weren't for the cost.

Btw, do you pay the fee when you notify or when you complete? If the
latter, I may notify them of a whole load of stuff that I may or may not
do.

The danger is the 4th sucessor of the original BCO doesn't know what's going
on, wants to look at everything again (that you covered up) and makes you do
stuff to the latest regs because he doesn;t know what the regs were 15 years
back :-o

A risk I'm willing to take. And makes for a fun game: predict the next
regs. Any guesses?

Alex

--
Swish - Easy SFTP for Windows Explorer (http://www.swish-sftp.org)

On 19/02/2013 19:30, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Tim Watts writes:

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 18:30 Alexander Lamaison wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Will the BCO not mind? I vaguely remember something about a 2 year time
limit?

There's no time limit to complete. The BCO told me. I think the 2 years is
the time to start after notifying.

Time to start? How would they know?

If not, surely you could submit a preemptive notification listing
everything under the sun, pay the fees once, and then spend the next 20
years gradually doing the work as you fancied. Then, when the time
comes to sell the house, call up the BCO and get them to sign off the
work you've done. One set of fees paid for 20 years.

Basically - yes.

Excellent. I'd happily notify BCO if it weren't for the cost.

Btw, do you pay the fee when you notify or when you complete? If the
latter, I may notify them of a whole load of stuff that I may or may not
do.

The danger is the 4th sucessor of the original BCO doesn't know what's going
on, wants to look at everything again (that you covered up) and makes you do
stuff to the latest regs because he doesn;t know what the regs were 15 years
back :-o

A risk I'm willing to take. And makes for a fun game: predict the next
regs. Any guesses?

Alex


I would say split load boards with 2 RCDs make way for CUs with 100%
RCBOs. That gets rid of losing half the house circuits should a RCD trip
and any associated collateral damage like falling over in teh dark,
freezer defrosting, water pipes burst due to no power to boiler, fish
die as their heated tank goes cold... etc the list goes on.

I would also say emergency lights mandated for kitchens, bathrooms,
stairs, etc as they are high hazard areas with wet floors, sharp knives,
chip pan fryers etc when the lights pop.

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 19:30 Alexander Lamaison wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Tim Watts writes:

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 18:30 Alexander Lamaison wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Will the BCO not mind? I vaguely remember something about a 2 year time
limit?

There's no time limit to complete. The BCO told me. I think the 2 years
is the time to start after notifying.

Time to start? How would they know?

I think they expect a site visit in the first 2 years ;-


If not, surely you could submit a preemptive notification listing
everything under the sun, pay the fees once, and then spend the next 20
years gradually doing the work as you fancied. Then, when the time
comes to sell the house, call up the BCO and get them to sign off the
work you've done. One set of fees paid for 20 years.

Basically - yes.

Excellent. I'd happily notify BCO if it weren't for the cost.

Btw, do you pay the fee when you notify or when you complete? If the
latter, I may notify them of a whole load of stuff that I may or may not
do.

When you start - most councils have a sliding scale of fees dependent on the
"commercial cost" of what you are doing (if you paid builders etc to do it).

You can knock stuff off afterwards - but I would not overplay that card.


The danger is the 4th sucessor of the original BCO doesn't know what's
going on, wants to look at everything again (that you covered up) and
makes you do stuff to the latest regs because he doesn;t know what the
regs were 15 years back :-o

A risk I'm willing to take. And makes for a fun game: predict the next
regs. Any guesses?

Triple glazing. Eventually...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Stephen H wrote:
On 19/02/2013 19:30, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Tim Watts writes:

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 18:30 Alexander Lamaison wrote in
uk.d-i-y:
Will the BCO not mind? I vaguely remember something about a 2
year time limit?

There's no time limit to complete. The BCO told me. I think the 2
years is the time to start after notifying.

Time to start? How would they know?

If not, surely you could submit a preemptive notification
listing everything under the sun, pay the fees once, and then
spend the next 20 years gradually doing the work as you
fancied. Then, when the time comes to sell the house, call up
the BCO and get them to sign off the work you've done. One set
of fees paid for 20 years.

Basically - yes.

Excellent. I'd happily notify BCO if it weren't for the cost.

Btw, do you pay the fee when you notify or when you complete? If the
latter, I may notify them of a whole load of stuff that I may or
may not do.

The danger is the 4th sucessor of the original BCO doesn't know
what's going on, wants to look at everything again (that you
covered up) and makes you do stuff to the latest regs because he
doesn;t know what the regs were 15 years back :-o

A risk I'm willing to take. And makes for a fun game: predict the
next regs. Any guesses?

Alex


I would say split load boards with 2 RCDs make way for CUs with 100%
RCBOs. That gets rid of losing half the house circuits should a RCD
trip and any associated collateral damage like falling over in teh
dark, freezer defrosting, water pipes burst due to no power to
boiler, fish die as their heated tank goes cold... etc the list goes
on.

I expect supplementary bonding to be brought back into bathrooms. I doubt
all RCBOs will be the next step but triple RCD CUs

I would also say emergency lights mandated for kitchens, bathrooms,
stairs, etc as they are high hazard areas with wet floors, sharp
knives, chip pan fryers etc when the lights pop.

I cannot see that one happening.

--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
Stephen H wrote:
On 19/02/2013 19:30, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Tim Watts writes:

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 18:30 Alexander Lamaison wrote in
uk.d-i-y:
Will the BCO not mind? I vaguely remember something about a 2
year time limit?

There's no time limit to complete. The BCO told me. I think the 2
years is the time to start after notifying.

Time to start? How would they know?

If not, surely you could submit a preemptive notification
listing everything under the sun, pay the fees once, and then
spend the next 20 years gradually doing the work as you
fancied. Then, when the time comes to sell the house, call up
the BCO and get them to sign off the work you've done. One set
of fees paid for 20 years.

Basically - yes.

Excellent. I'd happily notify BCO if it weren't for the cost.

Btw, do you pay the fee when you notify or when you complete? If the
latter, I may notify them of a whole load of stuff that I may or
may not do.

The danger is the 4th sucessor of the original BCO doesn't know
what's going on, wants to look at everything again (that you
covered up) and makes you do stuff to the latest regs because he
doesn;t know what the regs were 15 years back :-o

A risk I'm willing to take. And makes for a fun game: predict the
next regs. Any guesses?

Alex


I would say split load boards with 2 RCDs make way for CUs with 100%
RCBOs. That gets rid of losing half the house circuits should a RCD
trip and any associated collateral damage like falling over in teh
dark, freezer defrosting, water pipes burst due to no power to
boiler, fish die as their heated tank goes cold... etc the list goes
on.

I expect supplementary bonding to be brought back into bathrooms. I doubt
all RCBOs will be the next step but triple RCD CUs

I would also say emergency lights mandated for kitchens, bathrooms,
stairs, etc as they are high hazard areas with wet floors, sharp
knives, chip pan fryers etc when the lights pop.

I cannot see that one happening.

Me neither. Can't think of any jurisdiction that’s gone
that route, presumably because the stats don’t justify it.

On Wednesday 20 February 2013 19:01 Rod Speed wrote in uk.d-i-y:



"ARW" wrote in message
...
Stephen H wrote:
On 19/02/2013 19:30, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Tim Watts writes:

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 18:30 Alexander Lamaison wrote in
uk.d-i-y:
Will the BCO not mind? I vaguely remember something about a 2
year time limit?

There's no time limit to complete. The BCO told me. I think the 2
years is the time to start after notifying.

Time to start? How would they know?

If not, surely you could submit a preemptive notification
listing everything under the sun, pay the fees once, and then
spend the next 20 years gradually doing the work as you
fancied. Then, when the time comes to sell the house, call up
the BCO and get them to sign off the work you've done. One set
of fees paid for 20 years.

Basically - yes.

Excellent. I'd happily notify BCO if it weren't for the cost.

Btw, do you pay the fee when you notify or when you complete? If the
latter, I may notify them of a whole load of stuff that I may or
may not do.

The danger is the 4th sucessor of the original BCO doesn't know
what's going on, wants to look at everything again (that you
covered up) and makes you do stuff to the latest regs because he
doesn;t know what the regs were 15 years back :-o

A risk I'm willing to take. And makes for a fun game: predict the
next regs. Any guesses?

Alex


I would say split load boards with 2 RCDs make way for CUs with 100%
RCBOs. That gets rid of losing half the house circuits should a RCD
trip and any associated collateral damage like falling over in teh
dark, freezer defrosting, water pipes burst due to no power to
boiler, fish die as their heated tank goes cold... etc the list goes
on.

I expect supplementary bonding to be brought back into bathrooms. I doubt
all RCBOs will be the next step but triple RCD CUs

I would also say emergency lights mandated for kitchens, bathrooms,
stairs, etc as they are high hazard areas with wet floors, sharp
knives, chip pan fryers etc when the lights pop.

I cannot see that one happening.

Me neither. Can't think of any jurisdiction thats gone
that route, presumably because the stats dont justify it.

It would make more sense than the Welsh and their bloody sprinklers...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

[Default] On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:54:01 +0000, a certain chimpanzee,
(A.Lee), randomly hit the keyboard and wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 10:02 DerbyBorn wrote in uk.d-i-y:

I am going to have a kitchen extension which will require some electrical
work. The Building Inspector will want a Part P Certificate on completion.

Will the electician who does the work on the extension have to inspect the
whole house? I am just a little concerned that my bathroom light may not
be compliant.

Terminology:

There is no such thing as a "Part P certificate".

Err, yes there is.
If you self-certify, the Governing Body will produce it and send it to
the Client.
On the top of mine reads: " Building Regs Part P compliance
Certificate."

The Building Inspector has no need to see the Installation Certificates
if you have the Part P compliance Cert.

Correct. However, the electrician doesn't have to notify their Body
for up to 30 days (or longer if they're a numpty at paperwork), and
then that organisation notifies Building Control electronically, who's
database may or may not be updated every day/week/month/when they
realise no-one's done it for a while. Meanwhile you're waiting for
your completion certificate, and Building Control are saying, "not
until we receive a CPS notice".

The short cut is to wave the installation certificate in the face of
the BCO who can check that the electrician is listed on
www.competentperson.co.uk.

OP: As far as Building Regulations go, only any notifiable alterations
or additions to the electrics have to comply. The existing wiring
doesn't have to be brought up to the latest standards, so long as the
other work hasn't made it worse than previously.

I haven't read through the changes to the regulations thoroughly yet,
but AIUI, electrical work to a kitchen will not be notifiable from
April.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have I strayed"?

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday 20 February 2013 19:01 Rod Speed wrote in uk.d-i-y:



"ARW" wrote in message
...
Stephen H wrote:
On 19/02/2013 19:30, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Tim Watts writes:

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 18:30 Alexander Lamaison wrote in
uk.d-i-y:
Will the BCO not mind? I vaguely remember something about a 2
year time limit?

There's no time limit to complete. The BCO told me. I think the 2
years is the time to start after notifying.

Time to start? How would they know?

If not, surely you could submit a preemptive notification
listing everything under the sun, pay the fees once, and then
spend the next 20 years gradually doing the work as you
fancied. Then, when the time comes to sell the house, call up
the BCO and get them to sign off the work you've done. One set
of fees paid for 20 years.

Basically - yes.

Excellent. I'd happily notify BCO if it weren't for the cost.

Btw, do you pay the fee when you notify or when you complete? If the
latter, I may notify them of a whole load of stuff that I may or
may not do.

The danger is the 4th sucessor of the original BCO doesn't know
what's going on, wants to look at everything again (that you
covered up) and makes you do stuff to the latest regs because he
doesn;t know what the regs were 15 years back :-o

A risk I'm willing to take. And makes for a fun game: predict the
next regs. Any guesses?

Alex


I would say split load boards with 2 RCDs make way for CUs with 100%
RCBOs. That gets rid of losing half the house circuits should a RCD
trip and any associated collateral damage like falling over in teh
dark, freezer defrosting, water pipes burst due to no power to
boiler, fish die as their heated tank goes cold... etc the list goes
on.

I expect supplementary bonding to be brought back into bathrooms. I
doubt
all RCBOs will be the next step but triple RCD CUs

I would also say emergency lights mandated for kitchens, bathrooms,
stairs, etc as they are high hazard areas with wet floors, sharp
knives, chip pan fryers etc when the lights pop.

I cannot see that one happening.

Me neither. Can't think of any jurisdiction thats gone
that route, presumably because the stats dont justify it.

It would make more sense than the Welsh and their bloody sprinklers...

Makes more sense to not bother with either of them IMO.

Hugo Nebula writes:


I haven't read through the changes to the regulations thoroughly yet,
but AIUI, electrical work to a kitchen will not be notifiable from
April.

That prompted me to read the new Approved Document [1] from front to
back and I'm over the moon! The new rules make almost everything I want
to do non-notifiable.

Realistically (I don't know about you, but I don't have a swimming pool
or a sauna) there are only three things left that are notifiable:

- Replacing a consumer unit
- Installing a new circuit
- Extending or altering a circuit in Zone 2 of the bathroom

And even those three have become much easier to do because 'notifiable'
doesn't actually mean notify Building Control. If I'm reading it right,
you can employ a member of a self-assessment scheme to check the work on
your behalf.

One question this raises for me is exactly what the definition of
'consumer unit' and 'circuit' are. For instance, installing a garage
'consumer unit' on to the existing garage circuit, which is protected by
the main 'consumer unit' near the meter. Is that notifiable?

[1] http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl..._AD_P_2013.pdf

Alex

--
Swish - Easy SFTP for Windows Explorer (http://www.swish-sftp.org)

On 20/02/2013 17:23, ARW wrote:
Stephen H wrote:
On 19/02/2013 19:30, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Tim Watts writes:

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 18:30 Alexander Lamaison wrote in
uk.d-i-y:
Will the BCO not mind? I vaguely remember something about a 2
year time limit?

There's no time limit to complete. The BCO told me. I think the 2
years is the time to start after notifying.

Time to start? How would they know?

If not, surely you could submit a preemptive notification
listing everything under the sun, pay the fees once, and then
spend the next 20 years gradually doing the work as you
fancied. Then, when the time comes to sell the house, call up
the BCO and get them to sign off the work you've done. One set
of fees paid for 20 years.

Basically - yes.

Excellent. I'd happily notify BCO if it weren't for the cost.

Btw, do you pay the fee when you notify or when you complete? If the
latter, I may notify them of a whole load of stuff that I may or
may not do.

The danger is the 4th sucessor of the original BCO doesn't know
what's going on, wants to look at everything again (that you
covered up) and makes you do stuff to the latest regs because he
doesn;t know what the regs were 15 years back :-o

A risk I'm willing to take. And makes for a fun game: predict the
next regs. Any guesses?

Alex


I would say split load boards with 2 RCDs make way for CUs with 100%
RCBOs. That gets rid of losing half the house circuits should a RCD
trip and any associated collateral damage like falling over in teh
dark, freezer defrosting, water pipes burst due to no power to
boiler, fish die as their heated tank goes cold... etc the list goes
on.

I expect supplementary bonding to be brought back into bathrooms. I doubt
all RCBOs will be the next step but triple RCD CUs


But the cost of RCBOs have fallen close to the point where a triple RCD
CU with MCBs will not be much cheaper than a CU fully populated with
RCBOs.

In addition, you do away with nuisance tripping where one circuit trips
the RCD taking out several other circuits with it.

I would also say emergency lights mandated for kitchens, bathrooms,
stairs, etc as they are high hazard areas with wet floors, sharp
knives, chip pan fryers etc when the lights pop.

I cannot see that one happening.

Its already common for public areas.

In my last house I put emergency lights in the kitchen, bathroom, Hall,
Landing and stairs as I considered there was hazards from cooking,
bathing/showering and walking up/down stairs.

I can see mains CO detectors becoming mandatory for rooms containing a
gas appliance. Its already mandatory for rooms with a solid fuel appliance.

Stephen

Stephen H wrote:
On 20/02/2013 17:23, ARW wrote:
..

I would also say emergency lights mandated for kitchens,
bathrooms, stairs, etc as they are high hazard areas with wet
floors, sharp knives, chip pan fryers etc when the lights pop.

I cannot see that one happening.

Its already common for public areas.


I do not let the public use my toilet, bathroom or kitchen:-)

--
Adam

"Stephen H" wrote in message
...
On 20/02/2013 17:23, ARW wrote:
Stephen H wrote:
On 19/02/2013 19:30, Alexander Lamaison wrote:
Tim Watts writes:

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 18:30 Alexander Lamaison wrote in
uk.d-i-y:
Will the BCO not mind? I vaguely remember something about a 2
year time limit?

There's no time limit to complete. The BCO told me. I think the 2
years is the time to start after notifying.

Time to start? How would they know?

If not, surely you could submit a preemptive notification
listing everything under the sun, pay the fees once, and then
spend the next 20 years gradually doing the work as you
fancied. Then, when the time comes to sell the house, call up
the BCO and get them to sign off the work you've done. One set
of fees paid for 20 years.

Basically - yes.

Excellent. I'd happily notify BCO if it weren't for the cost.

Btw, do you pay the fee when you notify or when you complete? If the
latter, I may notify them of a whole load of stuff that I may or
may not do.

The danger is the 4th sucessor of the original BCO doesn't know
what's going on, wants to look at everything again (that you
covered up) and makes you do stuff to the latest regs because he
doesn;t know what the regs were 15 years back :-o

A risk I'm willing to take. And makes for a fun game: predict the
next regs. Any guesses?

Alex


I would say split load boards with 2 RCDs make way for CUs with 100%
RCBOs. That gets rid of losing half the house circuits should a RCD
trip and any associated collateral damage like falling over in teh
dark, freezer defrosting, water pipes burst due to no power to
boiler, fish die as their heated tank goes cold... etc the list goes
on.

I expect supplementary bonding to be brought back into bathrooms. I doubt
all RCBOs will be the next step but triple RCD CUs


But the cost of RCBOs have fallen close to the point where a triple RCD CU
with MCBs will not be much cheaper than a CU fully populated with
RCBOs.

In addition, you do away with nuisance tripping where one circuit trips
the RCD taking out several other circuits with it.

I would also say emergency lights mandated for kitchens, bathrooms,
stairs, etc as they are high hazard areas with wet floors, sharp
knives, chip pan fryers etc when the lights pop.

I cannot see that one happening.

Its already common for public areas.

So is disable access etc. It wont be for all non public areas.

In my last house I put emergency lights in the kitchen, bathroom, Hall,
Landing and stairs as I considered there was hazards from cooking,
bathing/showering and walking up/down stairs.

I don't bother because mains failure is rare here and my
cooking is entirely electric, so it will stop auto on mains
failure and I am quite capable of turning the shower off
and getting out of it in the dark if I have to. Don't have
any stairs at all.

I can see mains CO detectors becoming mandatory for rooms containing a gas
appliance. Its already mandatory for rooms with a solid fuel appliance.

I use electric heating entirely.

If I ever did get a mains failure in the depths of winter I would
just go to bed under the goose down doona/eiderdown.

In article ,
"Rod Speed" writes:
Me neither. Can't think of any jurisdiction that’s gone
that route, presumably because the stats don’t justify it.

UK wiring regs are no longer driven by risk measurement, but
are driven by manufacturers to force their products onto the
market. So if one or more emergency luminare manufacturers
get involved, then you'll find their products becoming a
requirement. It only takes one fatality due to the dark to
clear up the matter of justification the change - you won't
see a proper cost/risk analysis.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote
Rod Speed wrote
ARW wrote
Stephen H wrote

I would also say emergency lights mandated for kitchens,
bathrooms, stairs, etc as they are high hazard areas with wet
floors, sharp knives, chip pan fryers etc when the lights pop.

I cannot see that one happening.

Me neither. Can't think of any jurisdiction that's gone
that route, presumably because the stats don't justify it.

UK wiring regs are no longer driven by risk measurement, but are
driven by manufacturers to force their products onto the market.

I don't believe that with stuff like whats being discussed.

So if one or more emergency luminare manufacturers get
involved, then you'll find their products becoming a requirement.

Bet that doesn't happen.

It only takes one fatality due to the dark to
clear up the matter of justification the change

That hasn't happened either. There have been
fatalitys with that stuff and it didn't happen.

- you won't see a proper cost/risk analysis.

Maybe not, but we haven't seen that sort of
mindless knee jerk reaction, with mandatory
sprinklers in domestic situations either.

In fact you haven't even seen your Part P
end up with the end user not being able
to do their own electrical work with fixed
wiring like has been the case in Australia
for many years now, even tho you have
had some fatalitys because of that.

On 2013-02-21, ARW wrote:

Stephen H wrote:
On 20/02/2013 17:23, ARW wrote:
.

I would also say emergency lights mandated for kitchens,
bathrooms, stairs, etc as they are high hazard areas with wet
floors, sharp knives, chip pan fryers etc when the lights pop.

I cannot see that one happening.

Its already common for public areas.


I do not let the public use my toilet, bathroom or kitchen:-)

You mean if I come to visit, I have to go in the garden? What if I
bring the beer?

In article ,
"Rod Speed" writes:

In fact you haven't even seen your Part P
end up with the end user not being able
to do their own electrical work with fixed
wiring like has been the case in Australia
for many years now, even tho you have
had some fatalitys because of that.

Part P was never anything to do with safety - it was
all about the electrical trade bodies getting more
members by making registration mandatory and trying
to lock out foreign workers. It failed. Electrical
deaths which had been dropping for decades, increased
after it was introduced, exactly as we predicted it
would in our official response. It's just about to be
dumbed down, partly in recognition that it's now mostly
ignored and in any case it backfired on the electrical
trade by generating extra overhead for real electricians,
although it did generate much more revenue for the
electrical trades bodies, which was their aim.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel posted
Part P was never anything to do with safety - it was
all about the electrical trade bodies getting more
members by making registration mandatory and trying
to lock out foreign workers. It failed. Electrical
deaths which had been dropping for decades, increased
after it was introduced, exactly as we predicted it
would in our official response.

Who is this "we"?

It's just about to be
dumbed down,

In what way?


--
Les

In article ,
Big Les Wade writes:
Andrew Gabriel posted
Part P was never anything to do with safety - it was
all about the electrical trade bodies getting more
members by making registration mandatory and trying
to lock out foreign workers. It failed. Electrical
deaths which had been dropping for decades, increased
after it was introduced, exactly as we predicted it
would in our official response.

Who is this "we"?

uk.d-i-y members (all those who cared to comment at the time),
just over 10 years ago: http://www.cucumber.demon.co.uk/buildregs.pdf
There was another response from members too, which I don't have,
but the two were in agreement.

We initially got a very positive response from the minister.

Then our comments were completely ignored in bringing the
regulations in.

A couple of years later, the ODPM (as it then was) admitted
their figures justifying the regs were flawed, as we pointed
out at the time. They also admitted that deaths went up following
the introduction of the regs, as we suggested they would.

It's just about to be
dumbed down,
In what way?

From 6th April, many of the notifiable locations are removed (IIRC,
kitchens, outdoors, and bathrooms except in Zone 2).

There will also be a formal way to get DIY work which is notifiable
approved by an electrician, whereas currently that can only be
done by a BCO, many of whom are not competent to do so, resulting
in them asking you to get an electrician to do it, which is actually
not currently permitted.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Big Les Wade writes:
Andrew Gabriel posted
Part P was never anything to do with safety - it was
all about the electrical trade bodies getting more
members by making registration mandatory and trying
to lock out foreign workers. It failed. Electrical
deaths which had been dropping for decades, increased
after it was introduced, exactly as we predicted it
would in our official response.

Who is this "we"?

uk.d-i-y members (all those who cared to comment at the time),
just over 10 years ago: http://www.cucumber.demon.co.uk/buildregs.pdf
There was another response from members too, which I don't have,
but the two were in agreement.

We initially got a very positive response from the minister.

Then our comments were completely ignored in bringing the
regulations in.

A couple of years later, the ODPM (as it then was) admitted
their figures justifying the regs were flawed, as we pointed
out at the time. They also admitted that deaths went up following
the introduction of the regs, as we suggested they would.

It's just about to be
dumbed down,
In what way?

From 6th April, many of the notifiable locations are removed (IIRC,
kitchens, outdoors, and bathrooms except in Zone 2).





There will also be a formal way to get DIY work which is notifiable
approved by an electrician, whereas currently that can only be
done by a BCO, many of whom are not competent to do so, resulting
in them asking you to get an electrician to do it, which is actually
not currently permitted.

It makes me wonder if they have finally worked out that "some" electricians
have actually been doing this since Part P first started:-).

And it's sticks two fingers up to one particular BCO that has been mentioned
on this group.

--
Adam