http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

Cheers

Daver R

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)


Why do you support ageist policies?

Perhaps a petition for the removal of any age related benefits and
allowances is called for.

On Feb 14, 11:40*am, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for pensioners.

Why would I want to do that?

It will do absolutely nothing to help those in real need.

All it will do is give more to those who already have enough to
benefit from said tax allowances.

MBQ

On 14/02/2013 12:22, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Feb 14, 11:40 am, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for pensioners.

Why would I want to do that?

It will do absolutely nothing to help those in real need.

All it will do is give more to those who already have enough to
benefit from said tax allowances.

How much do people need to get in order to benefit from the Age Allowance?

On 14/02/2013 20:16, GB wrote:
On 14/02/2013 12:22, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Feb 14, 11:40 am, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for
pensioners.

Why would I want to do that?

It will do absolutely nothing to help those in real need.

All it will do is give more to those who already have enough to
benefit from said tax allowances.

How much do people need to get in order to benefit from the Age Allowance?


Why not sign http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/32346 instead?

On 14/02/2013 20:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/02/2013 20:16, GB wrote:
On 14/02/2013 12:22, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Feb 14, 11:40 am, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for
pensioners.

Why would I want to do that?

It will do absolutely nothing to help those in real need.

All it will do is give more to those who already have enough to
benefit from said tax allowances.

How much do people need to get in order to benefit from the Age
Allowance?


Why not sign http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/32346 instead?


Good idea. I have done that.

On 14/02/2013 20:26, GB wrote:
On 14/02/2013 20:23, dennis@home wrote:


8


Why not sign http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/32346 instead?


Good idea. I have done that.

Here's one for harry to sign.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/36402

On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 20:23:34 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

On 14/02/2013 20:16, GB wrote:
On 14/02/2013 12:22, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Feb 14, 11:40 am, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for
pensioners.

Why would I want to do that?

It will do absolutely nothing to help those in real need.

All it will do is give more to those who already have enough to
benefit from said tax allowances.

How much do people need to get in order to benefit from the Age
Allowance?


Why not sign http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/32346 instead?

Might do if it was less specific - general nuclear power instead of one
specific technology.

I now have to go and research that specific technology.

Not that much support so far.

Cheers

Dave R

On 15/02/13 12:49, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 20:23:34 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

On 14/02/2013 20:16, GB wrote:
On 14/02/2013 12:22, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Feb 14, 11:40 am, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for
pensioners.

Why would I want to do that?

It will do absolutely nothing to help those in real need.

All it will do is give more to those who already have enough to
benefit from said tax allowances.

How much do people need to get in order to benefit from the Age
Allowance?


Why not sign http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/32346 instead?

Might do if it was less specific - general nuclear power instead of one
specific technology.

I now have to go and research that specific technology.

Not that much support so far.

Cheers

Dave R

Thorium reactors really need a joint effort over two decades from
several competent nations.

Looks like we and the Chinese and Japanese might be sensible candidates.

But no way is it an instant fix.

Probably the best right now is some standard established technology like
the Hitachi ABWR that is being proposed.

EDF and the EPWR are looking like they are expensive and buggy in terms
of construction.


BUT the public wont be in favour until some spectacular grid failures
die to renewable energy enable the engineers who know the score to be heard.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 14/02/2013 12:22, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Feb 14, 11:40 am, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for
pensioners.

Why would I want to do that?

It will do absolutely nothing to help those in real need.

All it will do is give more to those who already have enough to
benefit from said tax allowances.

How much do people need to get in order to benefit from the Age Allowance?

More that the normal nil tax band.

It has been presented wrongly by a PP, it isn't a benefit only received by
well off pensioners, it is a benefit received by pensioners receiving the
equivalent of "minimum wage", it is withdrawn from better off pensioners.

tim

On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

If you are canvassing for votes against the removal of additional tax
allowances, it might be a good idea to explain why you think that the
increase in personal allowances for those over 65 does not adequately
compensate for them.

Colin Bignell

On 14/02/2013 13:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

If you are canvassing for votes against the removal of additional tax
allowances, it might be a good idea to explain why you think that the
increase in personal allowances for those over 65 does not adequately
compensate for them.

Colin Bignell


I agree. I suppose some would argue that this doesn't maintain the
differential between pensioners and non-pensioners. But I'm not sure
exactly what the case for a differential is.

Personally, I'd rather have it as an increased personal allowance for
everyone. That way, it doesn't get clawed back when my total pension
income exceeds a certain threshold.

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance. Not so sure about prescriptions and eye test. Older
people tend to have a greater need for these. Free dental treatment
would be good, too.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 14/02/13 20:39, Roger Mills wrote:
On 14/02/2013 13:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for
pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

If you are canvassing for votes against the removal of additional tax
allowances, it might be a good idea to explain why you think that the
increase in personal allowances for those over 65 does not adequately
compensate for them.

Colin Bignell


I agree. I suppose some would argue that this doesn't maintain the
differential between pensioners and non-pensioners. But I'm not sure
exactly what the case for a differential is.

Personally, I'd rather have it as an increased personal allowance for
everyone. That way, it doesn't get clawed back when my total pension
income exceeds a certain threshold.

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance. Not so sure about prescriptions and eye test. Older
people tend to have a greater need for these. Free dental treatment
would be good, too.

Useless blatherings. Us over 60s know we will have our pensions removed,
our houses stolen by mansion taxes, our savings devalued and used to
employ third world carers to not look after us before being put on a
care pathway and finally turned into SagaBurgers for young labour votahs.

The only question is how many of the idle workshy *******s we can take
with us.

My euthanasia shall not go unaccompanied!

Pass the Ammonium Nitrate Jeeves. I have one final message to deliver to
the House. While the balance of my mind is sufficiently disturbed by the
last of the Clery '46....


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 14/02/13 20:39, Roger Mills wrote:
On 14/02/2013 13:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for
pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

If you are canvassing for votes against the removal of additional tax
allowances, it might be a good idea to explain why you think that the
increase in personal allowances for those over 65 does not adequately
compensate for them.

Colin Bignell


I agree. I suppose some would argue that this doesn't maintain the
differential between pensioners and non-pensioners. But I'm not sure
exactly what the case for a differential is.

Personally, I'd rather have it as an increased personal allowance for
everyone. That way, it doesn't get clawed back when my total pension
income exceeds a certain threshold.

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance. Not so sure about prescriptions and eye test. Older
people tend to have a greater need for these. Free dental treatment
would be good, too.

Useless blatherings. Us over 60s know we will have our pensions removed,
our houses stolen by mansion taxes,

There's as simple solution to that

Sell the damn thing and move somewhere smaller

I never understand the attitude of pensioners who insist on living in
poverty in a million pound house, (and then complain about it!)

In article ,
tim..... wrote:
I never understand the attitude of pensioners who insist on living in
poverty in a million pound house, (and then complain about it!)

My house is far larger than I now need - but it is my investment to pay
for decent care if I ever need it. Selling it and buying somewhere smaller
then investing the balance doesn't seem like a good idea in these times.

--
*I like cats, too. Let's exchange recipes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"tim....." wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 14/02/13 20:39, Roger Mills wrote:
On 14/02/2013 13:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for
pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

If you are canvassing for votes against the removal of additional tax
allowances, it might be a good idea to explain why you think that the
increase in personal allowances for those over 65 does not adequately
compensate for them.

Colin Bignell


I agree. I suppose some would argue that this doesn't maintain the
differential between pensioners and non-pensioners. But I'm not sure
exactly what the case for a differential is.

Personally, I'd rather have it as an increased personal allowance for
everyone. That way, it doesn't get clawed back when my total pension
income exceeds a certain threshold.

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance. Not so sure about prescriptions and eye test. Older
people tend to have a greater need for these. Free dental treatment
would be good, too.

Useless blatherings. Us over 60s know we will have our pensions removed,
our houses stolen by mansion taxes,

There's as simple solution to that

Sell the damn thing and move somewhere smaller

I never understand the attitude of pensioners who insist on living in
poverty in a million pound house, (and then complain about it!)

Presumably they dont see why the state should be forcing them to downsize
like that.

They do have a point.

On 14/02/2013 20:39, Roger Mills wrote:
On 14/02/2013 13:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for
pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

If you are canvassing for votes against the removal of additional tax
allowances, it might be a good idea to explain why you think that the
increase in personal allowances for those over 65 does not adequately
compensate for them.

Colin Bignell


I agree. I suppose some would argue that this doesn't maintain the
differential between pensioners and non-pensioners. But I'm not sure
exactly what the case for a differential is.

Personally, I'd rather have it as an increased personal allowance for
everyone. That way, it doesn't get clawed back when my total pension
income exceeds a certain threshold.

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance. Not so sure about prescriptions and eye test. Older
people tend to have a greater need for these. Free dental treatment
would be good, too.

I suspect that means testing bus passes would probably cost more than it
saves. They are a bit of a novelty when you first get them, after which
the disadvantages of using public transport outweigh the benefits of
using it for free, so it is probable that only those who really need
them actually use them to any extent. I wouldn't miss the winter fuel
allowance, but again, I'm not sure that a lot of the claimed savings
from means testing it would not just go into administering the scheme.

Prescriptions might as well be free for everybody; only 10% of people
actually pay for them and I rather doubt that covers the administrative
costs of collecting the fees and checking that people claiming exemption
are actually entitled to it.

Eye tests should not only be free but for anybody over 60 holding a
driving licence compulsory. Many people who have never needed glasses
before can go for years without realising that their eyesight is
deteriorating as they age.

Colin Bignell

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 14/02/2013 20:39, Roger Mills wrote:
On 14/02/2013 13:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for
pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

If you are canvassing for votes against the removal of additional tax
allowances, it might be a good idea to explain why you think that the
increase in personal allowances for those over 65 does not adequately
compensate for them.

Colin Bignell


I agree. I suppose some would argue that this doesn't maintain the
differential between pensioners and non-pensioners. But I'm not sure
exactly what the case for a differential is.

Personally, I'd rather have it as an increased personal allowance for
everyone. That way, it doesn't get clawed back when my total pension
income exceeds a certain threshold.

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance. Not so sure about prescriptions and eye test. Older
people tend to have a greater need for these. Free dental treatment
would be good, too.

I suspect that means testing bus passes would probably cost more than it
saves. They are a bit of a novelty when you first get them, after which
the disadvantages of using public transport outweigh the benefits of using
it for free, so it is probable that only those who really need them
actually use them to any extent. I wouldn't miss the winter fuel
allowance, but again, I'm not sure that a lot of the claimed savings from
means testing it would not just go into administering the scheme.

Prescriptions might as well be free for everybody; only 10% of people
actually pay for them and I rather doubt that covers the administrative
costs of collecting the fees and checking that people claiming exemption
are actually entitled to it.

Eye tests should not only be free but for anybody over 60 holding a
driving licence compulsory.

Ours are compulsory for ALL driving licenses,
done where you get the license so basically
included in the cost of the license.

We also have free eye tests every 2 years, and
they do a lot more than driving license test.

Many people who have never needed glasses before can go for years without
realising that their eyesight is deteriorating as they age.

On 14/02/2013 22:28, Nightjar wrote:
On 14/02/2013 20:39, Roger Mills wrote:
On 14/02/2013 13:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for
pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

If you are canvassing for votes against the removal of additional tax
allowances, it might be a good idea to explain why you think that the
increase in personal allowances for those over 65 does not adequately
compensate for them.

Colin Bignell


I agree. I suppose some would argue that this doesn't maintain the
differential between pensioners and non-pensioners. But I'm not sure
exactly what the case for a differential is.

Personally, I'd rather have it as an increased personal allowance for
everyone. That way, it doesn't get clawed back when my total pension
income exceeds a certain threshold.

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance. Not so sure about prescriptions and eye test. Older
people tend to have a greater need for these. Free dental treatment
would be good, too.

I suspect that means testing bus passes would probably cost more than it
saves. They are a bit of a novelty when you first get them, after which
the disadvantages of using public transport outweigh the benefits of
using it for free, so it is probable that only those who really need
them actually use them to any extent. I wouldn't miss the winter fuel
allowance, but again, I'm not sure that a lot of the claimed savings
from means testing it would not just go into administering the scheme.

Prescriptions might as well be free for everybody; only 10% of people
actually pay for them and I rather doubt that covers the administrative
costs of collecting the fees and checking that people claiming exemption
are actually entitled to it.


Govt claims 88% don't pay - I would question that. And anecdotally at
least people don't use prescription medicine because of the cost.

Eye tests should not only be free but for anybody over 60 holding a
driving licence compulsory. Many people who have never needed glasses
before can go for years without realising that their eyesight is
deteriorating as they age.


It's tricky - overall I don't think means testing is a good idea, for
reasons ranging from admin cost to stigma. I'd like to think people who
don't need or use a benefit hand it back, but then I like to think a lot
of things ;-)

Rob

On 15/02/2013 08:14, RJH wrote:


Govt claims 88% don't pay - I would question that. And anecdotally
at least people don't use prescription medicine because of the cost.


The saga of prescription charges goes on!

If you are even slightly financially OK but medically not OK, and
subject to NHS prescription charges, it is likely worth capping your
outgoings by getting a Prescription Prepayment Certificate (PPC) at £104
a year. (Do government "don't pay" figures include PPC purchasers? After
all, they do not pay prescription by prescription.)

I take one medicine only and the NHS "cost" of that medicine is
marginally over £12 a year (one lot month). And this seems to correlate
with costs in other countries such as Spain, I am told, where it is an
over-the-counter medicine.

However, I and everyone else on this medicine qualify for a Medical
Exemption Certificate (Medex), so actually pay nothing. (And have the
benefit of not then paying for any other prescriptions.)

If I had to pay the full prescription charge of £7.65 twelve times a
year, I would be being ripped off by the system. (That is, being charged
almost £80 more than the NHS is charged for the medicine.)

Because of the system we have, I do not have the option of buying my own
as the charges for doing so are even more. Private prescriptions alone
are often expensive and yet a prescription is mandatory. And there is no
possibility of buying at anything like the NHS or Spanish prices. (I
base this on having seen the prices some people have been charged for
having private prescriptions filled for this medicine - though maybe
they did not shop around?)

It could actually be less expensive to purchase an equivalent from
abroad than to pay UK prescription charges. Without a prescription.
Unfortunately, most internet medicine suppliers relate their prices to
USA domestic prices. And this medicine is anomalously expensive in the
USA (almost certainly branding issues, etc.). But if I knew someone
willing in any of several European countries, they could pop it in an
envelope for me and I would pay much less than NHS prescription charges.

Considering the importance of some medicines, the idea that people have
to question which one(s) they might be able to afford this week or
month, even when the NHS costs are peanuts, is crazy and unfair.

--
Rod

On 15/02/2013 08:14, RJH wrote:
On 14/02/2013 22:28, Nightjar wrote:
....
Prescriptions might as well be free for everybody; only 10% of people
actually pay for them and I rather doubt that covers the administrative
costs of collecting the fees and checking that people claiming exemption
are actually entitled to it.


Govt claims 88% don't pay - I would question that.

A 2008 survey gave the average at the 90% I quoted. However, for some
groups, such as mental health patients, it is as low as 81%.

And anecdotally at
least people don't use prescription medicine because of the cost.

I would have thought that the majority of people for whom that would be
a problem should qualify for free prescriptions.

Eye tests should not only be free but for anybody over 60 holding a
driving licence compulsory. Many people who have never needed glasses
before can go for years without realising that their eyesight is
deteriorating as they age.


It's tricky - overall I don't think means testing is a good idea, for
reasons ranging from admin cost to stigma. I'd like to think people who
don't need or use a benefit hand it back, but then I like to think a lot
of things ;-)

I don't think there is any mechanism for me to hand back the winter fuel
allowance. It is easier to give the same amount to charity.

Colin Bignell

On 15/02/2013 10:59, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:

On 2013-02-15, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
RJH wrote:

It's tricky - overall I don't think means testing is a good idea,
for reasons ranging from admin cost to stigma. I'd like to think
people who don't need or use a benefit hand it back, but then I
like to think a lot of things ;-)

Hand it back *how* ?

Write a cheque and send it to No.11 Downing Street.

Who should I make the cheque out to?


"Help the aged".

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 14/02/2013 20:39, Roger Mills wrote:
On 14/02/2013 13:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for
pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

If you are canvassing for votes against the removal of additional tax
allowances, it might be a good idea to explain why you think that the
increase in personal allowances for those over 65 does not adequately
compensate for them.

Colin Bignell


I agree. I suppose some would argue that this doesn't maintain the
differential between pensioners and non-pensioners. But I'm not sure
exactly what the case for a differential is.

Personally, I'd rather have it as an increased personal allowance for
everyone. That way, it doesn't get clawed back when my total pension
income exceeds a certain threshold.

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance. Not so sure about prescriptions and eye test. Older
people tend to have a greater need for these. Free dental treatment
would be good, too.

I suspect that means testing bus passes would probably cost more than it
saves. They are a bit of a novelty when you first get them, after which
the disadvantages of using public transport outweigh the benefits of using
it for free, so it is probable that only those who really need them
actually use them to any extent. I wouldn't miss the winter fuel
allowance, but again, I'm not sure that a lot of the claimed savings from
means testing it would not just go into administering the scheme.

Prescriptions might as well be free for everybody; only 10% of people
actually pay for them and I rather doubt that covers the administrative
costs of collecting the fees and checking that people claiming exemption
are actually entitled to it.

No-one checks, it's self policed and your chances of being caught if you lie
are minimal

tim

In article ,
Nightjar wrote:
I suspect that means testing bus passes would probably cost more than it
saves. They are a bit of a novelty when you first get them, after which
the disadvantages of using public transport outweigh the benefits of
using it for free, so it is probable that only those who really need
them actually use them to any extent. I wouldn't miss the winter fuel
allowance, but again, I'm not sure that a lot of the claimed savings
from means testing it would not just go into administering the scheme.

Living in London, I find my Freedom pass very useful and it gets used
several times a week. For journeys where it's more convenient for me to
use PT than either of my cars. ;-) So to me it's really just a perk.
However, lots get 'perks' of one sort or another from the state. In my
case the Freedom pass costs the state very little in real terms as I only
use it outside rush hour when there is spare capacity on PT. I'd be happy
if they changed it back to only allowing it to be used outside rush hour.

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Roger Mills wrote:

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance.

Though I have benefited, I don't think the original decision to
introduce these at 60 for everybody, instead of at state pension
age, was right.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

In article ,
Chris J Dixon wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance.

Though I have benefited, I don't think the original decision to
introduce these at 60 for everybody, instead of at state pension
age, was right.

At the time they were introduced, many of the incurable optimists in
government were talking about having state retirement age at 60 for
everyone. How things change...

--
*Plagiarism saves time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 15/02/2013 09:43, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance.

Though I have benefited, I don't think the original decision to
introduce these at 60 for everybody, instead of at state pension
age, was right.

Chris

Bus passes are not at 60 for everyone. Round here they are slowly
creeping up.

--
Rod

polygonum wrote:

On 15/02/2013 09:43, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Though I have benefited, I don't think the original decision to
introduce these at 60 for everybody, instead of at state pension
age, was right.

Bus passes are not at 60 for everyone. Round here they are slowly
creeping up.

But my point is that, at least in England (don't know about
elsewhere) they were when first introduced. They are now
gradually aligning them, as they should have been from the start.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On 15/02/2013 09:43, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Though I have benefited, I don't think the original decision to
introduce these at 60 for everybody, instead of at state pension
age, was right.


AIUI, at the time they were introduced the pensionable age for women WAS
60. Sex equality legislation made the age 60 for men also.

Another Dave

In message , Another Dave
writes
On 15/02/2013 09:43, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Though I have benefited, I don't think the original decision to
introduce these at 60 for everybody, instead of at state pension
age, was right.


AIUI, at the time they were introduced the pensionable age for women
WAS 60. Sex equality legislation made the age 60 for men also.

Another Dave


It made it the same for men as women, which was one of the drivers
behind raising the pension age for women.
--
bert

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 14/02/2013 13:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for
pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

If you are canvassing for votes against the removal of additional tax
allowances, it might be a good idea to explain why you think that the
increase in personal allowances for those over 65 does not adequately
compensate for them.

Colin Bignell


I agree. I suppose some would argue that this doesn't maintain the
differential between pensioners and non-pensioners. But I'm not sure
exactly what the case for a differential is.

Personally, I'd rather have it as an increased personal allowance for
everyone. That way, it doesn't get clawed back when my total pension
income exceeds a certain threshold.

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter fuel
allowance.

Bus passes tend to be self-means tested, I.e the better off pensioners who
drive don't use them extensively.

means testing the fuel allowance would cost more that it saved unless you
means tested it away from 80-90% of recipients. In which case it would be
better abolished IMHO

tim

In article ,
tim..... wrote:
Bus passes tend to be self-means tested, I.e the better off pensioners
who drive don't use them extensively.

Not round here. Problem in London is not so much the cost of fuel, but
trying to park in the High Street, etc. And buses go down the High Street
- but not so likely to go to shopping malls. Of course if I have heavy
shopping to bring home the car is the obvious choice.

So I tend to use which is most convenient - not much influenced by the
cost of either.

--
*I have my own little world - but it's OK...they know me here*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim..... wrote:
Bus passes tend to be self-means tested, I.e the better off pensioners
who drive don't use them extensively.

Not round here. Problem in London is not so much the cost of fuel, but
trying to park in the High Street, etc. And buses go down the High Street
- but not so likely to go to shopping malls. Of course if I have heavy
shopping to bring home the car is the obvious choice.

But London is different

They still give them out to peeps over 60 despite the rest of the country no
longer being so entitled.

And you can use them on the underground/overground.

So it seems likely that if HMG introduced means tests London would not

tim

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance. Not so sure about prescriptions and eye test. Older
people tend to have a greater need for these. Free dental treatment
would be good, too.

Older people tend to feel the cold more - hence the winter fuel payment.

As regards bus passes, it's difficult to calculate what they really do
cost, as PT usually has plenty spare capacity outside rush hour.

--
*The severity of the itch is proportional to the reach *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:54:48 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance. Not so sure about prescriptions and eye test. Older
people tend to have a greater need for these. Free dental treatment
would be good, too.

Older people tend to feel the cold more - hence the winter fuel payment.

As regards bus passes, it's difficult to calculate what they really do
cost, as PT usually has plenty spare capacity outside rush hour.

Other factors affecting cost are things such as there being a contract for
the buses to run (so no real cost for passes) as on my route and how much if
the buses are cancelled and the drivers and ancillary staff are out of work.
Add in the extra medical costs due to lack of activity (although earlier
death might balance this) and pensioners spending in shops in the town and
the savings aren't that much.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 15/02/2013 18:50, PeterC wrote:

Other factors affecting cost are things such as there being a contract for
the buses to run (so no real cost for passes) as on my route and how much if
the buses are cancelled and the drivers and ancillary staff are out of work.
Add in the extra medical costs due to lack of activity (although earlier
death might balance this) and pensioners spending in shops in the town and
the savings aren't that much.


I hadn't thought of it like that but, on reflection, you're probably right.

I hardly ever use mine; the buses seem to be full of youths going
to/coming back from a meeting with their probation officers

Another Dave

On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 20:39:09 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 14/02/2013 13:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

If you are canvassing for votes against the removal of additional tax
allowances, it might be a good idea to explain why you think that the
increase in personal allowances for those over 65 does not adequately
compensate for them.

Colin Bignell


I agree. I suppose some would argue that this doesn't maintain the
differential between pensioners and non-pensioners. But I'm not sure
exactly what the case for a differential is.

Indeed. Not being a pensioner I would think that it is working people
who would need a larger allowance as pensioners generally have lower
outgoings.

Personally, I'd rather have it as an increased personal allowance for
everyone. That way, it doesn't get clawed back when my total pension
income exceeds a certain threshold.

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance.

+1. Since the government is taking away other universal benefits it
would be consistent to do this.

Not so sure about prescriptions and eye test. Older
people tend to have a greater need for these. Free dental treatment
would be good, too.

Personally I think free dentistry and eye tests should be more widely
available to encourage people to look after themselves.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:35:30 +0000, Mark
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 20:39:09 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 14/02/2013 13:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

If you are canvassing for votes against the removal of additional tax
allowances, it might be a good idea to explain why you think that the
increase in personal allowances for those over 65 does not adequately
compensate for them.

Colin Bignell


I agree. I suppose some would argue that this doesn't maintain the
differential between pensioners and non-pensioners. But I'm not sure
exactly what the case for a differential is.

Indeed. Not being a pensioner I would think that it is working people
who would need a larger allowance as pensioners generally have lower
outgoings.


As a pensioner you'll have significantly less income as well. Even if
you are one of the lucky few who have contributed to a final salary
scheme for 40 years, the most you will get is 2/3 of your salary. Most
people will end up with much less than half the pay the were earning.
Not that I think there's much of a case for different tax allowances
just because your old.

In article ,
Bill Taylor wrote:
As a pensioner you'll have significantly less income as well. Even if
you are one of the lucky few who have contributed to a final salary
scheme for 40 years, the most you will get is 2/3 of your salary. Most
people will end up with much less than half the pay the were earning.
Not that I think there's much of a case for different tax allowances
just because your old.

Yehbut, if you've organised things properly, you should have paid off your
mortgage, kids off your hands etc by the time you retire. And no more of
the often considerable expense of getting to work and subsistance there.

--
*Frankly, scallop, I don't give a clam

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Mark
writes
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 20:39:09 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 14/02/2013 13:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 14/02/2013 11:40, David WE Roberts wrote:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

Petition against the removal of additional tax allowances for pensioners.

Vote early, vote often :-)

If you are canvassing for votes against the removal of additional tax
allowances, it might be a good idea to explain why you think that the
increase in personal allowances for those over 65 does not adequately
compensate for them.

Colin Bignell


I agree. I suppose some would argue that this doesn't maintain the
differential between pensioners and non-pensioners. But I'm not sure
exactly what the case for a differential is.

Indeed. Not being a pensioner I would think that it is working people
who would need a larger allowance as pensioners generally have lower
outgoings.

Just to come vaguely back onto group topic, pensioners have to hire
people to do more jobs for them which younger people can DIY

Personally, I'd rather have it as an increased personal allowance for
everyone. That way, it doesn't get clawed back when my total pension
income exceeds a certain threshold.

I would also support means testing things like bus passes and winter
fuel allowance.

Bus passes (outside metropolitan areas) are generally self regulating.
If you can afford a car you have one.

Places like London receive such a bias in their per capita grant that
they can afford to go well above the statutory minimum
+1. Since the government is taking away other universal benefits it
would be consistent to do this.

Not so sure about prescriptions and eye test. Older
people tend to have a greater need for these. Free dental treatment
would be good, too.

Things like winter fuel allowance etc are all headline grabbing gimmicks
introduced by various governments to avoid paying a decent state
pension. Pensioners are means tested at £7400 per annum. Child benefit
is means tested at £40-£60k
Personally I think free dentistry and eye tests should be more widely
available to encourage people to look after themselves.


--
bert