warning - Machine Mart
 

I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out of focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only give
Credit Note.

Next time I went to buy took Credit note to pay (£50 credit) ... to
be told credit note expired.
In the very small print there was a date limit ... certainly not
mentioned by the shop at the time.

I took it to customer services - who also said 'No'
...........OK I asked could I have the original item back then, at
least I could sell it .......... to be told 'No'

Fells like I have been robbed ... they have my money I have no goods.


So be warned if they offer you a credit note.

warning - Machine Mart
 

On 21/01/2013 20:01, Rick Hughes wrote:
I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out of focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only give
Credit Note.

Next time I went to buy took Credit note to pay (£50 credit) ... to
be told credit note expired.
In the very small print there was a date limit ... certainly not
mentioned by the shop at the time.

I took it to customer services - who also said 'No'
...........OK I asked could I have the original item back then, at
least I could sell it .......... to be told 'No'

Fells like I have been robbed ... they have my money I have no goods.


So be warned if they offer you a credit note.

Write to them asking for a suitable remedy, or explain you will submit a
small claims action!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:01:36 +0000, Rick Hughes
wrote:

I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out of focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only give
Credit Note.

That's where you went wrong, by accepting that.
Foot down firmly and refuse anything but a refund.

warning - Machine Mart
 

Rick Hughes wrote ...


I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out of focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only give
Credit Note.

Next time I went to buy took Credit note to pay (£50 credit) ... to
be told credit note expired.
In the very small print there was a date limit ... certainly not
mentioned by the shop at the time.

I took it to customer services - who also said 'No'
...........OK I asked could I have the original item back then, at
least I could sell it .......... to be told 'No'

Fells like I have been robbed ... they have my money I have no goods.


So be warned if they offer you a credit note.


http://www.devon.gov.uk/tsdocfulldet...%3Bcons%3Badv%
3Bpwg&docId=122503&returnTo=problems_with_goods_le aflets

I have just purchased goods which are defective. The trader will only
offer me a credit note. Is he right?

No. If you have acted quickly enough, you are entitled to reject the
goods and get a refund. If you have not acted quickly enough, you are
entitled to a repair, a replacement or a full or partial refund, (see
our leaflet 'Buying goods - your rights'). You do not have to accept a
credit note.

warning - Machine Mart
 

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:01:36 +0000, Rick Hughes
wrote:

I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out
of focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only
give Credit Note.

That's where you went wrong, by accepting that.
Foot down firmly and refuse anything but a refund.

+1

--
Adam

warning - Machine Mart
 

In message , ARW
writes
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:01:36 +0000, Rick Hughes
wrote:

I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out
of focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only
give Credit Note.

That's where you went wrong, by accepting that.
Foot down firmly and refuse anything but a refund.

+1

Not fit for purpose. You could only discover that by opening the box &
trying it.

+1

--
Simon

12) The Second Rule of Expectations
An EXPECTATION is a Premeditated resentment.

warning - Machine Mart
 

"Eric" wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote ...


I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out of
focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only give
Credit Note.

Next time I went to buy took Credit note to pay (£50 credit) ... to
be told credit note expired.
In the very small print there was a date limit ... certainly not
mentioned by the shop at the time.

I took it to customer services - who also said 'No'
...........OK I asked could I have the original item back then, at
least I could sell it .......... to be told 'No'

Fells like I have been robbed ... they have my money I have no goods.


So be warned if they offer you a credit note.


http://www.devon.gov.uk/tsdocfulldet...%3Bcons%3Badv%
3Bpwg&docId=122503&returnTo=problems_with_goods_le aflets

I have just purchased goods which are defective. The trader will only
offer me a credit note. Is he right?

No. If you have acted quickly enough, you are entitled to reject the
goods and get a refund. If you have not acted quickly enough, you are
entitled to a repair, a replacement or a full or partial refund, (see
our leaflet 'Buying goods - your rights'). You do not have to accept a
credit note.


+1 Cases like this are covered by the Sale of Goods Act .
http://www.business-law.co.uk/blog/s...ds-act-summary

If Goods are not 'fit for purpose' you are entitled to a refund or
replascement. You do NOT have to accept a credit note.

I suggest that you advise the store that you are going to sue them through
the Small Claims Court and that this will entail them having to pay court
costs on top of the money the will have to refund to you. As the original
goods were not fit for purpose, they have not got a leg to stand on. They
will also have a judgement recorded against the business. It would
therefore be more sensible for them to just refund your money.

warning - Machine Mart
 

On 21/01/2013 22:48, Wesley wrote:
"Eric" wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote ...


I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out of
focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only give
Credit Note.

Next time I went to buy took Credit note to pay (£50 credit) ... to
be told credit note expired.
In the very small print there was a date limit ... certainly not
mentioned by the shop at the time.

I took it to customer services - who also said 'No'
...........OK I asked could I have the original item back then, at
least I could sell it .......... to be told 'No'

Fells like I have been robbed ... they have my money I have no goods.


So be warned if they offer you a credit note.


http://www.devon.gov.uk/tsdocfulldet...%3Bcons%3Badv%
3Bpwg&docId=122503&returnTo=problems_with_goods_le aflets

I have just purchased goods which are defective. The trader will only
offer me a credit note. Is he right?

No. If you have acted quickly enough, you are entitled to reject the
goods and get a refund. If you have not acted quickly enough, you are
entitled to a repair, a replacement or a full or partial refund, (see
our leaflet 'Buying goods - your rights'). You do not have to accept a
credit note.


+1 Cases like this are covered by the Sale of Goods Act .
http://www.business-law.co.uk/blog/s...ds-act-summary

If Goods are not 'fit for purpose' you are entitled to a refund or
replascement. You do NOT have to accept a credit note.

I suggest that you advise the store that you are going to sue them through
the Small Claims Court and that this will entail them having to pay court
costs on top of the money the will have to refund to you. As the original
goods were not fit for purpose, they have not got a leg to stand on. They
will also have a judgement recorded against the business. It would
therefore be more sensible for them to just refund your money.


Not sure what the state of play is once the customer has accepted a
credit note?

--
Rod

warning - Machine Mart
 

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 21/01/2013 22:48, Wesley wrote:
"Eric" wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote ...


I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out of
focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only
give
Credit Note.

Next time I went to buy took Credit note to pay (£50 credit) ... to
be told credit note expired.
In the very small print there was a date limit ... certainly not
mentioned by the shop at the time.

I took it to customer services - who also said 'No'
...........OK I asked could I have the original item back then, at
least I could sell it .......... to be told 'No'

Fells like I have been robbed ... they have my money I have no goods.


So be warned if they offer you a credit note.


http://www.devon.gov.uk/tsdocfulldet...%3Bcons%3Badv%
3Bpwg&docId=122503&returnTo=problems_with_goods_le aflets

I have just purchased goods which are defective. The trader will only
offer me a credit note. Is he right?

No. If you have acted quickly enough, you are entitled to reject the
goods and get a refund. If you have not acted quickly enough, you are
entitled to a repair, a replacement or a full or partial refund, (see
our leaflet 'Buying goods - your rights'). You do not have to accept a
credit note.


+1 Cases like this are covered by the Sale of Goods Act .
http://www.business-law.co.uk/blog/s...ds-act-summary

If Goods are not 'fit for purpose' you are entitled to a refund or
replascement. You do NOT have to accept a credit note.

I suggest that you advise the store that you are going to sue them
through
the Small Claims Court and that this will entail them having to pay court
costs on top of the money the will have to refund to you. As the
original
goods were not fit for purpose, they have not got a leg to stand on.
They
will also have a judgement recorded against the business. It would
therefore be more sensible for them to just refund your money.


Not sure what the state of play is once the customer has accepted a credit
note?

--
Rod

Surely they cannot be allowed to put a time limit on Credit Notes? If that
was the case then a great deal of dodgy companies would be doing the same
thing and this would make the SOGA irrelevant.

To the original poster - try Googling 'Machine Mart complaints' rather
enlightening ;-)

warning - Machine Mart
 

On 21/01/2013 23:04, Wesley wrote:
"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 21/01/2013 22:48, Wesley wrote:
"Eric" wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote ...


I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out of
focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only
give
Credit Note.

Next time I went to buy took Credit note to pay (£50 credit) ... to
be told credit note expired.
In the very small print there was a date limit ... certainly not
mentioned by the shop at the time.

I took it to customer services - who also said 'No'
...........OK I asked could I have the original item back then, at
least I could sell it .......... to be told 'No'

Fells like I have been robbed ... they have my money I have no goods.


So be warned if they offer you a credit note.


http://www.devon.gov.uk/tsdocfulldet...%3Bcons%3Badv%
3Bpwg&docId=122503&returnTo=problems_with_goods_le aflets

I have just purchased goods which are defective. The trader will only
offer me a credit note. Is he right?

No. If you have acted quickly enough, you are entitled to reject the
goods and get a refund. If you have not acted quickly enough, you are
entitled to a repair, a replacement or a full or partial refund, (see
our leaflet 'Buying goods - your rights'). You do not have to accept a
credit note.


+1 Cases like this are covered by the Sale of Goods Act .
http://www.business-law.co.uk/blog/s...ds-act-summary

If Goods are not 'fit for purpose' you are entitled to a refund or
replascement. You do NOT have to accept a credit note.

I suggest that you advise the store that you are going to sue them
through
the Small Claims Court and that this will entail them having to pay court
costs on top of the money the will have to refund to you. As the
original
goods were not fit for purpose, they have not got a leg to stand on.
They
will also have a judgement recorded against the business. It would
therefore be more sensible for them to just refund your money.


Not sure what the state of play is once the customer has accepted a credit
note?

--
Rod

Surely they cannot be allowed to put a time limit on Credit Notes? If that
was the case then a great deal of dodgy companies would be doing the same
thing and this would make the SOGA irrelevant.

To the original poster - try Googling 'Machine Mart complaints' rather
enlightening ;-)


If they do not put a time limit, then they do potentially have some
accounting issues - handling a possibly significant number of
un-tendered credit notes which they have handed out over (potentially)
many years.

"Credit Notes

If you return faulty goods, you do not have to accept a credit note.

However there are many situations where a shop will issue a credit note
as a goodwill gesture – for instance if you change your mind about a
purchase.

If a shop offers you a credit note out of goodwill then it can put
restrictions on its use. It could put a time limit on when it must be
used - perhaps as long as 12 months or as short as one month. It could
also say that the credit note cannot be used in a sale. You should be
told of these restrictions when you are given the credit note and not
later when you try to use it. It is best if these terms are written on
the credit note at the time."

http://www.consumerline.org/search/?...d+credit+notes

--
Rod

warning - Machine Mart
 

On 21/01/2013 20:13, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/01/2013 20:01, Rick Hughes wrote:
I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out of
focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only give
Credit Note.

Next time I went to buy took Credit note to pay (£50 credit) ... to
be told credit note expired.
In the very small print there was a date limit ... certainly not
mentioned by the shop at the time.

I took it to customer services - who also said 'No'
...........OK I asked could I have the original item back then, at
least I could sell it .......... to be told 'No'

Fells like I have been robbed ... they have my money I have no goods.


So be warned if they offer you a credit note.

Write to them asking for a suitable remedy, or explain you will submit a
small claims action!

I *think* unfortunately they're probably within their rights to expire a
credit note (notwithstanding that they should have originally given a
refund instead), and that if they choose not to back down the OP could
lose a lot more money through a failed court hearing.

I think this one of those cases where a polite letter to the boss
explaining the circs might be more likely to yield the desired result.

Might be worth posting this to uk.legal.moderated though?

--
David

warning - Machine Mart
 

Wesley wrote ...




Surely they cannot be allowed to put a time limit on Credit Notes? If that
was the case then a great deal of dodgy companies would be doing the same
thing and this would make the SOGA irrelevant.

To the original poster - try Googling 'Machine Mart complaints' rather
enlightening ;-)

Read the link - once a credit note has been accepted, there's not much
that can be done to get the money and yes, they can put a time limit on
the use of the credit note.

warning - Machine Mart
 

I don't think what they have done is actually legal. If the goods are not
right you should at least get goods to the original value. I suspect as
trading conditions harden we will find a lot more sharp practice if they
can get away with it.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...
I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was useless,
quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out of focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only give
Credit Note.

Next time I went to buy took Credit note to pay (£50 credit) ... to be
told credit note expired.
In the very small print there was a date limit ... certainly not mentioned
by the shop at the time.

I took it to customer services - who also said 'No'
...........OK I asked could I have the original item back then, at least
I could sell it .......... to be told 'No'

Fells like I have been robbed ... they have my money I have no goods.


So be warned if they offer you a credit note.

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 07:54:17 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I don't think what they have done is actually legal. If the goods are not
right you should at least get goods to the original value. I suspect as
trading conditions harden we will find a lot more sharp practice if they
can get away with it.

I daresay branch managers have a certain amount of discretion, and of
course will have their own (mis)understanding of company rules.

When I had a similar experience at MM with a product that turned out
to be unsuitable I was given a refund without a moment's hesitation.
Couldn't have been more obliging.

warning - Machine Mart
 

On 21/01/2013 23:14, Lobster wrote:
On 21/01/2013 20:13, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/01/2013 20:01, Rick Hughes wrote:
I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out of
focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only give
Credit Note.

Next time I went to buy took Credit note to pay (£50 credit) ... to
be told credit note expired.
In the very small print there was a date limit ... certainly not
mentioned by the shop at the time.

I took it to customer services - who also said 'No'
...........OK I asked could I have the original item back then, at
least I could sell it .......... to be told 'No'

Fells like I have been robbed ... they have my money I have no goods.


So be warned if they offer you a credit note.

Write to them asking for a suitable remedy, or explain you will submit a
small claims action!

I *think* unfortunately they're probably within their rights to expire a
credit note (notwithstanding that they should have originally given a
refund instead), and that if they choose not to back down the OP could
lose a lot more money through a failed court hearing.

The money claim online service is a fixed fee (£30 IIRC)...

I think this one of those cases where a polite letter to the boss
explaining the circs might be more likely to yield the desired result.

Yes indeed... I think that is what I was suggesting ;-)

Might be worth posting this to uk.legal.moderated though?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

warning - Machine Mart
 

On 21/01/2013 23:36, Eric wrote:
Wesley wrote ...




Surely they cannot be allowed to put a time limit on Credit Notes? If that
was the case then a great deal of dodgy companies would be doing the same
thing and this would make the SOGA irrelevant.

To the original poster - try Googling 'Machine Mart complaints' rather
enlightening ;-)

Read the link - once a credit note has been accepted, there's not much
that can be done to get the money and yes, they can put a time limit on
the use of the credit note.

If there are limitations on the note, then they need to explain them at
the time of issue. It sounds like they did not in this case.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Tuesday, January 22, 2013 12:28:26 PM UTC, John Rumm wrote:

The money claim online service is a fixed fee (£30 IIRC)...

That's to cover the pre-court adminstration fee. The courts can still award damages against the claimant to cover the defendants costs.

The claims process does however try and get both parties to do a few rounds of negotiation first such that court is the last resort and I would be very surprised if it were to ever get that far given the likely sums of money involved.

Mathew

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Monday, January 21, 2013 8:01:36 PM UTC, Rick Hughes wrote:
I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was



I did write to customer services ... pointing out I did not know it was time limited and shop had not made that clear.
they said it was printed on note so that was that.
I asked if they would extend date for a week and I would use it straight away - refused.
I went to shop manager - not interested, system would not allow him to accept the expired note.

I wrote again to customer service - asking them to reconsider as I had been a customer for many years - not interested.

Finally I asked for my goods back then ....as I had paid for them - refused.

Their comment was I had accepted the note, and therefore the t&c's that go with them.

So if you get a Credit Note at Machine Mart - be aware.

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 15:33:06 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Monday, January 21, 2013 8:01:36 PM UTC, Rick Hughes wrote:
I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was



I did write to customer services ... pointing out I did not know it was time limited and shop had not made that clear.
they said it was printed on note so that was that.
I asked if they would extend date for a week and I would use it straight away - refused.
I went to shop manager - not interested, system would not allow him to accept the expired note.

I wrote again to customer service - asking them to reconsider as I had been a customer for many years - not interested.

Finally I asked for my goods back then ....as I had paid for them - refused.

Their comment was I had accepted the note, and therefore the t&c's that go with them.

So if you get a Credit Note at Machine Mart - be aware.

Press relations contacts are at the bottom of this page:
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/pages/pressworkshop

Maybe a carefully worded conversation would result in either Hayley or
Simon advising Macine Mart that a goodwill gesture would be an
excellent idea.

I'm sure someone like Dom Littlewood would be pleased to have material
for a broadcast feature about credit notes.

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Monday, January 21, 2013 8:01:36 PM UTC, Rick Hughes wrote:
I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was

useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out of focus.



Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only give

Credit Note.



Next time I went to buy took Credit note to pay (£50 credit) ... to

be told credit note expired.

In the very small print there was a date limit ... certainly not

mentioned by the shop at the time.



I took it to customer services - who also said 'No'

...........OK I asked could I have the original item back then, at

least I could sell it .......... to be told 'No'



Fells like I have been robbed ... they have my money I have no goods.





So be warned if they offer you a credit note.

IMHO, IANAL,etc.,
A contract was formed when you agreed to accept a credit note.
If they didn't tell you about the terms and conditions before you agreed to take the credit note, they do not apply.
You cannot impose conditions after the agreement/ contract/bargain has been made.
They will argue that the expiry date is printed on the credit note; you could not have read that until you received it, after they had entered into the contract.
If they had told you of the expiry date, you'd probably have refused a credit note or used it before the date.

Besides that, IMHO it is a penalty that is not allowed under civil contract law.
You hand over £10 and expect goods or services to the value of £10 in return.
All trade is thus.

You could have demanded a refund; Bank of England credit notes/gift vouchers don't expire.

A lot of shops do this with the plastic gift vouchers, 2 years or you forfeit the value. I think it's a sharp practice.
Why would anyone buy such vouchers?

It sounds like machine Mart have trained their staff in dodgy practices.

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Thursday, January 24, 2013 9:18:45 PM UTC, Onetap wrote:
On Monday, January 21, 2013 8:01:36 PM UTC, Rick Hughes wrote:


IMHO, IANAL,etc.,

A contract was formed when you agreed to accept a credit note.

If they didn't tell you about the terms and conditions before you agreed to take the credit note, they do not apply.

You cannot impose conditions after the agreement/ contract/bargain has been made.

They will argue that the expiry date is printed on the credit note; you could not have read that until you received it, after they had entered into the contract.

If they had told you of the expiry date, you'd probably have refused a credit note or used it before the date.



Besides that, IMHO it is a penalty that is not allowed under civil contract law.

You hand over £10 and expect goods or services to the value of £10 in return.

All trade is thus.



You could have demanded a refund; Bank of England credit notes/gift vouchers don't expire.



A lot of shops do this with the plastic gift vouchers, 2 years or you forfeit the value. I think it's a sharp practice.

Why would anyone buy such vouchers?



It sounds like machine Mart have trained their staff in dodgy practices.

PS I do not think you will get anywhere with the customer services droids;
they have their Machine Mart dodgy practices script and will not deviate from it, even if they agree with your argument.

I think you'll have to start a summons/money claim on-line for it to get to the legal advisers, who may understand contract law enough to see your point.

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:01:36 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, Rick Hughes disturbed my
reverie and wrote:

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only give
Credit Note.

This has no basis in law and you found the good unsuitable due to poor
quality. Opening the box is BS and one is not obliged to returned
goods with packaging if they are defective.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Thursday 24 January 2013 22:05 DrTeeth wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:01:36 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, Rick Hughes disturbed my
reverie and wrote:

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only give
Credit Note.

This has no basis in law and you found the good unsuitable due to poor
quality. Opening the box is BS and one is not obliged to returned
goods with packaging if they are defective.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

Exactly.
I just exercised my rights under the DSR with broadbandbuyer.co.uk after
buying 3 PDU strips.

The "ears" where not as I had assumed (it made a difference for my
application) and the photo on the site not great.

I had opened one, resealed it carefully with every last twist tie present
and applied for an RMA. Then posted them back. Had the refund in a week.

This is how it should be.


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Thursday 24 January 2013 21:30 Onetap wrote in uk.d-i-y:

PS I do not think you will get anywhere with the customer services
droids;
they have their Machine Mart dodgy practices script and will not deviate
from it, even if they agree with your argument.

I think you'll have to start a summons/money claim on-line for it to get
to the legal advisers, who may understand contract law enough to see
your point.

Well, if one person who reads this avoids an intended purchase with them, it
may have cost them more than they ripped the OP off for.

Stupid sods. Mental note has been made....

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Thursday, January 24, 2013 10:24:49 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On Thursday 24 January 2013 21:30 Onetap wrote in uk.d-i-y:



PS I do not think you will get anywhere with the customer services

droids;

they have their Machine Mart dodgy practices script and will not deviate

from it, even if they agree with your argument.



I think you'll have to start a summons/money claim on-line for it to get

to the legal advisers, who may understand contract law enough to see

your point.



Well, if one person who reads this avoids an intended purchase with them, it

may have cost them more than they ripped the OP off for.



Stupid sods. Mental note has been made....

Ditto.

warning - Machine Mart
 

In message , Tim Watts
writes
On Thursday 24 January 2013 21:30 Onetap wrote in uk.d-i-y:

PS I do not think you will get anywhere with the customer services
droids;
they have their Machine Mart dodgy practices script and will not deviate
from it, even if they agree with your argument.

I think you'll have to start a summons/money claim on-line for it to get
to the legal advisers, who may understand contract law enough to see
your point.

Well, if one person who reads this avoids an intended purchase with them, it
may have cost them more than they ripped the OP off for.

Stupid sods. Mental note has been made....

+1
(& they opened a branch near me recently - I now shan't go be tempted
in)

--
Simon

12) The Second Rule of Expectations
An EXPECTATION is a Premeditated resentment.

warning - Machine Mart
 

In article , usenet2012 usenet2012@in
valid2012.org.uk scribeth thus
In message , Tim Watts
writes
On Thursday 24 January 2013 21:30 Onetap wrote in uk.d-i-y:

PS I do not think you will get anywhere with the customer services
droids;
they have their Machine Mart dodgy practices script and will not deviate
from it, even if they agree with your argument.

I think you'll have to start a summons/money claim on-line for it to get
to the legal advisers, who may understand contract law enough to see
your point.

Well, if one person who reads this avoids an intended purchase with them, it
may have cost them more than they ripped the OP off for.

Stupid sods. Mental note has been made....

+1
(& they opened a branch near me recently - I now shan't go be tempted
in)



Doesn't seem there're "that" cheap anyway....

--
Tony Sayer

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Friday 25 January 2013 05:33 usenet2012 wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In message , Tim Watts
writes
On Thursday 24 January 2013 21:30 Onetap wrote in uk.d-i-y:

PS I do not think you will get anywhere with the customer services
droids;
they have their Machine Mart dodgy practices script and will not
deviate from it, even if they agree with your argument.

I think you'll have to start a summons/money claim on-line for it to
get to the legal advisers, who may understand contract law enough to
see your point.

Well, if one person who reads this avoids an intended purchase with them,
it may have cost them more than they ripped the OP off for.

Stupid sods. Mental note has been made....

+1
(& they opened a branch near me recently - I now shan't go be tempted
in)


It's more find to pop in and tell them why you are driving on to Axminster
or wherever :)

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

warning - Machine Mart
 

On 25/01/2013 10:06, Tim Watts wrote:
On Friday 25 January 2013 05:33 usenet2012 wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In message , Tim Watts
writes
On Thursday 24 January 2013 21:30 Onetap wrote in uk.d-i-y:

PS I do not think you will get anywhere with the customer services
droids;
they have their Machine Mart dodgy practices script and will not
deviate from it, even if they agree with your argument.

I think you'll have to start a summons/money claim on-line for it to
get to the legal advisers, who may understand contract law enough to
see your point.

Well, if one person who reads this avoids an intended purchase with them,
it may have cost them more than they ripped the OP off for.

Stupid sods. Mental note has been made....

+1
(& they opened a branch near me recently - I now shan't go be tempted
in)


It's more find to pop in and tell them why you are driving on to Axminster
or wherever :)

+1
At a time when retailers are bending over backwards to please customers,
this lot seem to be heading in the other direction.

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Thursday, January 24, 2013 9:30:36 PM UTC, Onetap wrote:
On Thursday, January 24, 2013 9:18:45 PM UTC, Onetap wrote:

On Monday, January 21, 2013 8:01:36 PM UTC, Rick Hughes wrote:





IMHO, IANAL,etc.,



A contract was formed when you agreed to accept a credit note.



If they didn't tell you about the terms and conditions before you agreed to take the credit note, they do not apply.



You cannot impose conditions after the agreement/ contract/bargain has been made.



They will argue that the expiry date is printed on the credit note; you could not have read that until you received it, after they had entered into the contract.



If they had told you of the expiry date, you'd probably have refused a credit note or used it before the date.







Besides that, IMHO it is a penalty that is not allowed under civil contract law.



You hand over £10 and expect goods or services to the value of £10 in return.



All trade is thus.







You could have demanded a refund; Bank of England credit notes/gift vouchers don't expire.







A lot of shops do this with the plastic gift vouchers, 2 years or you forfeit the value. I think it's a sharp practice.



Why would anyone buy such vouchers?







It sounds like machine Mart have trained their staff in dodgy practices.



PS I do not think you will get anywhere with the customer services droids;

they have their Machine Mart dodgy practices script and will not deviate from it, even if they agree with your argument.



I think you'll have to start a summons/money claim on-line for it to get to the legal advisers, who may understand contract law enough to see your point.

PPS They had also got you to accept the credit note by misleading you as to your rights as a consumer. "opened the box; you can only have a credit not".

Under the Sale of Goods Act.
Defective goods mean you can have a refund or replacement, as you please
Unfit for purpose means you get your money back.

warning - Machine Mart
 

On 25/01/2013 13:09, Onetap wrote:
On Thursday, January 24, 2013 9:30:36 PM UTC, Onetap wrote:
On Thursday, January 24, 2013 9:18:45 PM UTC, Onetap wrote:

On Monday, January 21, 2013 8:01:36 PM UTC, Rick Hughes wrote:





IMHO, IANAL,etc.,



A contract was formed when you agreed to accept a credit note.



If they didn't tell you about the terms and conditions before you agreed to take the credit note, they do not apply.



You cannot impose conditions after the agreement/ contract/bargain has been made.



They will argue that the expiry date is printed on the credit note; you could not have read that until you received it, after they had entered into the contract.



If they had told you of the expiry date, you'd probably have refused a credit note or used it before the date.







Besides that, IMHO it is a penalty that is not allowed under civil contract law.



You hand over £10 and expect goods or services to the value of £10 in return.



All trade is thus.







You could have demanded a refund; Bank of England credit notes/gift vouchers don't expire.







A lot of shops do this with the plastic gift vouchers, 2 years or you forfeit the value. I think it's a sharp practice.



Why would anyone buy such vouchers?







It sounds like machine Mart have trained their staff in dodgy practices.



PS I do not think you will get anywhere with the customer services droids;

they have their Machine Mart dodgy practices script and will not deviate from it, even if they agree with your argument.



I think you'll have to start a summons/money claim on-line for it to get to the legal advisers, who may understand contract law enough to see your point.

PPS They had also got you to accept the credit note by misleading you as to your rights as a consumer. "opened the box; you can only have a credit not".

Under the Sale of Goods Act.
Defective goods mean you can have a refund or replacement, as you please
Unfit for purpose means you get your money back.

Might be fun to forward a link to this thread to the silly sods, so they
know what good publicity they are creating for themselves... Did someone
mention this group gets echoed on twitter recently ;-))


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Friday, January 25, 2013 1:09:31 PM UTC, Onetap wrote:
On Thursday, January 24, 2013 9:30:36 PM UTC, Onetap wrote:

PPS They had also got you to accept the credit note by misleading you as to your rights as a consumer. "opened the box; you can only have a credit not".

'CREDIT NOT' was a typo, but seems very appropriate.

warning - Machine Mart
 

On 21/01/2013 20:25, ARW wrote:
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:01:36 +0000, Rick Hughes
wrote:

I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out
of focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only
give Credit Note.

That's where you went wrong, by accepting that.
Foot down firmly and refuse anything but a refund.

+1

Agree ... but I did accept it as I buy fairly frequently form them
.... just did not expect it to be turned down when I presented it

warning - Machine Mart
 

On 21/01/2013 22:48, Wesley wrote:
"Eric" wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote ...


I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it was
useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything was out of
focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would only give
Credit Note.

Next time I went to buy took Credit note to pay (£50 credit) ... to
be told credit note expired.
In the very small print there was a date limit ... certainly not
mentioned by the shop at the time.

I took it to customer services - who also said 'No'
...........OK I asked could I have the original item back then, at
least I could sell it .......... to be told 'No'

Fells like I have been robbed ... they have my money I have no goods.


So be warned if they offer you a credit note.


http://www.devon.gov.uk/tsdocfulldet...%3Bcons%3Badv%
3Bpwg&docId=122503&returnTo=problems_with_goods_le aflets

I have just purchased goods which are defective. The trader will only
offer me a credit note. Is he right?

No. If you have acted quickly enough, you are entitled to reject the
goods and get a refund. If you have not acted quickly enough, you are
entitled to a repair, a replacement or a full or partial refund, (see
our leaflet 'Buying goods - your rights'). You do not have to accept a
credit note.


+1 Cases like this are covered by the Sale of Goods Act .
http://www.business-law.co.uk/blog/s...ds-act-summary

If Goods are not 'fit for purpose' you are entitled to a refund or
replascement. You do NOT have to accept a credit note.

I suggest that you advise the store that you are going to sue them through
the Small Claims Court and that this will entail them having to pay court
costs on top of the money the will have to refund to you. As the original
goods were not fit for purpose, they have not got a leg to stand on. They
will also have a judgement recorded against the business. It would
therefore be more sensible for them to just refund your money.



I did try this, they just replied they met their legal obligations by
issuing a credit note with T&Cs printed on it.

warning - Machine Mart
 

On 25/01/2013 22:11, Rick Hughes wrote:
On 21/01/2013 20:25, ARW wrote:
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:01:36 +0000, Rick Hughes
wrote:

I bought an item from Machine Mart (magnifier & Fl light) it
was useless, quality of magnifier lens was so poor everything
was out of focus.

Took it back the next day ... as I had 'opened the box' would
only give Credit Note.

That's where you went wrong, by accepting that. Foot down firmly
and refuse anything but a refund.

+1

Agree ... but I did accept it as I buy fairly frequently form them
... just did not expect it to be turned down when I presented it

Suggest a slight reword:

Agree ... but I did accept it as I *bought* fairly frequently from
them just did not expect it to be turned down when I presented it

--
Rod

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:44:39 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, John Rumm disturbed my reverie
and wrote:

Might be fun to forward a link to this thread to the silly sods, so they
know what good publicity they are creating for themselves
Do you think they could be bothered to look though lines and lines of
unsnipped crap (hint, hint)?
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:44:39 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

------------8
Might be fun to forward a link to this thread to the silly sods, so they
know what good publicity they are creating for themselves... Did someone
mention this group gets echoed on twitter recently ;-))

Just sent this in an email:

You may be interested to see how your hard work on destroying your own
reputation is working out:

http://allegoric.us/Y8j9O0

warning - Machine Mart
 

On 25/01/2013 22:13, Rick Hughes wrote:

I did try this, they just replied they met their legal obligations by
issuing a credit note with T&Cs printed on it.

IIRC there are such things as unfair contracts.

Andy

warning - Machine Mart
 

On Friday, January 25, 2013 10:13:20 PM UTC, Rick Hughes wrote:

I did try this, they just replied they met their legal obligations by

issuing a credit note with T&Cs printed on it.

Aye; but the T&Cs have to be made known to you before you agree to the contract/accepting a credit note. Handing you the T&Cs on the credit note is a fail; the contract has already been made.

Did they tell you of the T&Cs before? If not, then they don't apply. Amateurs.

warning - Machine Mart
 

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
On 25/01/2013 22:13, Rick Hughes wrote:

I did try this, they just replied they met their legal obligations by
issuing a credit note with T&Cs printed on it.

IIRC there are such things as unfair contracts.

And printing something with the T&C that flouts
the law in that area chances absolutely nothing legally.

That's why those ****ing great signs that claim that
the place has no liability what so ever for whatever
you leave there are completely irrelevant legally and
in some jurisdictions are in fact illegal themselves
because they attempt to deceive people about their
legal rights in that situation.