Hmmm. Having had a puddle that didn't want to go away, we had been
looking forward to a few dry (at least drier) days. But the puddle has
actually got bigger.

It now looks like it is actually a water leak - probably from the water
main to our house. It would be "their" side of the stopcock (which is
well inside the property and close to the house) and, thankfully, we do
not have a water meter.

I rushed out and bought a cheapo drill pump, attached to my cheapo SDS,
which are now valliantly fighting and pumping at a surprisingly good
rate. But the water level hardly drops - goes down a bit then sticks.

If I turn off the SDS (and with that noise, I certainly cannot leave it
going all night), the water flows down the path - or over the lawn -
towards the house. And makes a mini-moat there.

There is no possibility of diverting it usefully - any attempt to dig a
trench away fills up instantly and seems not to contribute anything to
lowering the level.

Called water people - they will come out next Monday.

I have a nasty feeling that:

We are going to have to manage the water ourselves until it gets fixed;
We will end up paying through the nose to someone.

Any useful suggestions appreciated.

(I cannot at the moment think of any role for an angle grinder. Nor a
Fein/Bosch/Aldidl oscillating thingummy.)

--
Rod

On 07/01/2013 16:02, polygonum wrote:
Hmmm. Having had a puddle that didn't want to go away, we had been
looking forward to a few dry (at least drier) days. But the puddle has
actually got bigger.

It now looks like it is actually a water leak - probably from the water
main to our house. It would be "their" side of the stopcock (which is
well inside the property and close to the house) and, thankfully, we do
not have a water meter.

I rushed out and bought a cheapo drill pump, attached to my cheapo SDS,
which are now valliantly fighting and pumping at a surprisingly good
rate. But the water level hardly drops - goes down a bit then sticks.

If I turn off the SDS (and with that noise, I certainly cannot leave it
going all night), the water flows down the path - or over the lawn -
towards the house. And makes a mini-moat there.

There is no possibility of diverting it usefully - any attempt to dig a
trench away fills up instantly and seems not to contribute anything to
lowering the level.

Called water people - they will come out next Monday.

I have a nasty feeling that:

We are going to have to manage the water ourselves until it gets fixed;
We will end up paying through the nose to someone.

Any useful suggestions appreciated.

(I cannot at the moment think of any role for an angle grinder. Nor a
Fein/Bosch/Aldidl oscillating thingummy.)

Would one of these be a better pump?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ad2pfc6

Dig a hole as a sump and pump out from there.

On 07/01/2013 16:19, Andrew May wrote:

Would one of these be a better pump?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ad2pfc6

Dig a hole as a sump and pump out from there.

Yes - but none in stock near here!

--
Rod

Next monday? I thought water leaks were all important these days. after all
we might have a drought..... erm, maybe not how soon they forget.


The problem is that these sort of leaks seldom surface where they are
actually leaking do they, similarly, if you block things up to make it come
up somewhere else it is never in the right other place.

What about some kind of cheap bilge pump for a second hand source, an
electric one obviously.


I'm sure somone will come along with an idea soon.

How deep is the pipe? I remember someone digging a deepish trench and
putting poly sheeting vertically so the easiest route was sideways, but of
course if you have neighbours....

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"polygonum" wrote in message
...
Hmmm. Having had a puddle that didn't want to go away, we had been looking
forward to a few dry (at least drier) days. But the puddle has actually
got bigger.

It now looks like it is actually a water leak - probably from the water
main to our house. It would be "their" side of the stopcock (which is well
inside the property and close to the house) and, thankfully, we do not
have a water meter.

I rushed out and bought a cheapo drill pump, attached to my cheapo SDS,
which are now valliantly fighting and pumping at a surprisingly good rate.
But the water level hardly drops - goes down a bit then sticks.

If I turn off the SDS (and with that noise, I certainly cannot leave it
going all night), the water flows down the path - or over the lawn -
towards the house. And makes a mini-moat there.

There is no possibility of diverting it usefully - any attempt to dig a
trench away fills up instantly and seems not to contribute anything to
lowering the level.

Called water people - they will come out next Monday.

I have a nasty feeling that:

We are going to have to manage the water ourselves until it gets fixed;
We will end up paying through the nose to someone.

Any useful suggestions appreciated.

(I cannot at the moment think of any role for an angle grinder. Nor a
Fein/Bosch/Aldidl oscillating thingummy.)

--
Rod

In message , polygonum
writes
Hmmm. Having had a puddle that didn't want to go away, we had been
looking forward to a few dry (at least drier) days. But the puddle has
actually got bigger.

It now looks like it is actually a water leak - probably from the water
main to our house. It would be "their" side of the stopcock (which is
well inside the property and close to the house) and, thankfully, we do
not have a water meter.

I rushed out and bought a cheapo drill pump, attached to my cheapo SDS,
which are now valliantly fighting and pumping at a surprisingly good
rate. But the water level hardly drops - goes down a bit then sticks.

If I turn off the SDS (and with that noise, I certainly cannot leave it
going all night), the water flows down the path - or over the lawn -
towards the house. And makes a mini-moat there.

There is no possibility of diverting it usefully - any attempt to dig a
trench away fills up instantly and seems not to contribute anything to
lowering the level.

Called water people - they will come out next Monday.

I have a nasty feeling that:

We are going to have to manage the water ourselves until it gets fixed;
We will end up paying through the nose to someone.

Any useful suggestions appreciated.

(I cannot at the moment think of any role for an angle grinder. Nor a
Fein/Bosch/Aldidl oscillating thingummy.)

Hmm.. I think if there is any risk of actual flood damage they ought to
move a bit quicker than next Monday!

Local water company uses the same contractor as I do here.

I suppose you could expose the leak and try a temporary bodge.




--
Tim Lamb

On Jan 7, 4:02*pm, polygonum wrote:
Hmmm. Having had a puddle that didn't want to go away, we had been
looking forward to a few dry (at least drier) days. But the puddle has
actually got bigger.

It now looks like it is actually a water leak - probably from the water
main to our house. It would be "their" side of the stopcock (which is
well inside the property and close to the house) and, thankfully, we do
not have a water meter.

I rushed out and bought a cheapo drill pump, attached to my cheapo SDS,
which are now valliantly fighting and pumping at a surprisingly good
rate. But the water level hardly drops - goes down a bit then sticks.

If I turn off the SDS (and with that noise, I certainly cannot leave it
going all night), the water flows down the path - or over the lawn -
towards the house. And makes a mini-moat there.

There is no possibility of diverting it usefully - any attempt to dig a
trench away fills up instantly and seems not to contribute anything to
lowering the level.

Called water people - they will come out next Monday.

I have a nasty feeling that:

We are going to have to manage the water ourselves until it gets fixed;
We will end up paying through the nose to someone.

Any useful suggestions appreciated.

(I cannot at the moment think of any role for an angle grinder. Nor a
Fein/Bosch/Aldidl oscillating thingummy.)

--
Rod

Is there a suitable hill you could start a siphon on?

Philip

On 07/01/2013 16:25, Brian Gaff wrote:
Next monday? I thought water leaks were all important these days. after all
we might have a drought..... erm, maybe not how soon they forget.


The problem is that these sort of leaks seldom surface where they are
actually leaking do they, similarly, if you block things up to make it come
up somewhere else it is never in the right other place.

What about some kind of cheap bilge pump for a second hand source, an
electric one obviously.


I'm sure somone will come along with an idea soon.

How deep is the pipe? I remember someone digging a deepish trench and
putting poly sheeting vertically so the easiest route was sideways, but of
course if you have neighbours....

Brian

My mutterings as well.

--
Rod

On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 16:02:50 +0000, polygonum wrote:

It now looks like it is actually a water leak - probably from the water
main to our house.

Stick your ear on the rising main(*) as it enters the house, can you hear
it "singing". Turn off the stopcock in your house so you aren't using any
water, is it still "singing"? Then try the outside one. Will isolate
where the leak is a little.

There is no possibility of diverting it usefully - any attempt to dig a
trench away fills up instantly and seems not to contribute anything to
lowering the level.

With the amount of rain recently the water table might be high but a
trench or hole that has a stable water level in it with water entering it
must be draining some where...

(*) Use something solid like a long screwdriver to connect you ear to the
pipe. Rest the handle end firmly against that little flappy bit in fron
of your ear chanel and put the point end on the pipe or pipe joint.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 07/01/2013 16:28, Tim Lamb wrote:


Hmm.. I think if there is any risk of actual flood damage they ought to
move a bit quicker than next Monday!

Local water company uses the same contractor as I do here.

I suppose you could expose the leak and try a temporary bodge.


Not good, is it?

Trouble is actually identifying where the leak is. Sure I can see where
the water is coming up, but...

--
Rod

On 07/01/2013 16:28, wrote:


Is there a suitable hill you could start a siphon on?

Philip

Tried earlier but the possibility is by such a small height difference
it was impossible to get it going. But I think it might work if I
somehow exploit the fact that the pipe can be filled by the pump...

Off to try.

--
Rod

polygonum wrote:

It now looks like it is actually a water leak - probably from the water
main to our house. It would be "their" side of the stopcock (which is
well inside the property and close to the house) and, thankfully, we do
not have a water meter.

I rushed out and bought a cheapo drill pump, attached to my cheapo SDS,
which are now valliantly fighting and pumping at a surprisingly good
rate. But the water level hardly drops - goes down a bit then sticks.

Called water people - they will come out next Monday.
....
We are going to have to manage the water ourselves until it gets fixed;
We will end up paying through the nose to someone.

Any useful suggestions appreciated.

I had the same around 5 years ago, and was told it would be 7 days
before anyone can come to look, maybe 14 days for a fix. Apparently, if
it is on your property, it is your responsibility, but, they will do a
free fix if you are prepared to wait, which is what I presume you have
been told.

Anyway, I went and dug down, which is the worst thing to do, and rather
than a trickle, there was suddenly a torrent of water coming out of the
ground.
Quickly infilled, I had a mostly sleepless night.
Next morning, down to B+Q to buy a pump, which was £35ish. This was
great, so I dug down again, got thoroughly soaked, but the pump allowed
me to find the leak, which was a pinhole in the copper main.
I used the old split hosepipe, with 2 clamps on it trick, clamped around
the hole, and that lasted the 2 weeks until Severn Trent came to fix it
properly.
I dont think it could be done without the pump, as even bucketing the
water out would not keep up with the leakage - surprising when I saw how
small the hole in the pipe was.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

On 07/01/2013 16:47, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 16:02:50 +0000, polygonum wrote:

It now looks like it is actually a water leak - probably from the water
main to our house.

Stick your ear on the rising main(*) as it enters the house, can you hear
it "singing". Turn off the stopcock in your house so you aren't using any
water, is it still "singing"? Then try the outside one. Will isolate
where the leak is a little.

There is no possibility of diverting it usefully - any attempt to dig a
trench away fills up instantly and seems not to contribute anything to
lowering the level.

With the amount of rain recently the water table might be high but a
trench or hole that has a stable water level in it with water entering it
must be draining some where...

(*) Use something solid like a long screwdriver to connect you ear to the
pipe. Rest the handle end firmly against that little flappy bit in fron
of your ear chanel and put the point end on the pipe or pipe joint.

It is only stable when I am actively pumping.

The rest if the time it is rising - though it had been going up and down
by only at most a few mm, today it was far worse.

The pipe inside the house is cut off more or less at floor level behind
a boiler. Not easy to get anything in to listen with. And it is plastic.
But will try later.

Have been out and decided to dig a bit more - see if I could achieve any
diversion to slightly drier ground. After a while, the water in the
"hole" (where we had seen water rising) stopped rising. Instead of
changing from turbid to clear, which had been indicating water
changeover, it stayed muddy. And I cannot see how that could have happened.

So hopefully OK for tonight.

--
Rod

On 07/01/2013 16:58, A.Lee wrote:
polygonum wrote:

It now looks like it is actually a water leak - probably from the water
main to our house. It would be "their" side of the stopcock (which is
well inside the property and close to the house) and, thankfully, we do
not have a water meter.

I rushed out and bought a cheapo drill pump, attached to my cheapo SDS,
which are now valliantly fighting and pumping at a surprisingly good
rate. But the water level hardly drops - goes down a bit then sticks.

Called water people - they will come out next Monday.
....
We are going to have to manage the water ourselves until it gets fixed;
We will end up paying through the nose to someone.

Any useful suggestions appreciated.

I had the same around 5 years ago, and was told it would be 7 days
before anyone can come to look, maybe 14 days for a fix. Apparently, if
it is on your property, it is your responsibility, but, they will do a
free fix if you are prepared to wait, which is what I presume you have
been told.

Anyway, I went and dug down, which is the worst thing to do, and rather
than a trickle, there was suddenly a torrent of water coming out of the
ground.
Quickly infilled, I had a mostly sleepless night.
Next morning, down to B+Q to buy a pump, which was £35ish. This was
great, so I dug down again, got thoroughly soaked, but the pump allowed
me to find the leak, which was a pinhole in the copper main.
I used the old split hosepipe, with 2 clamps on it trick, clamped around
the hole, and that lasted the 2 weeks until Severn Trent came to fix it
properly.
I dont think it could be done without the pump, as even bucketing the
water out would not keep up with the leakage - surprising when I saw how
small the hole in the pipe was.

The water company's website seems to say they will offer a subsidy - but
that is all. Hence anticipating a bill.

No mention of cost in the call.

One problem is that the pipe might pass under a garage which is not
ours. Another is that the one out-in-the-road stopcock seems to affect
about seven houses.

--
Rod

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
Hmmm. Having had a puddle that didn't want to go away, we had been looking
forward to a few dry (at least drier) days. But the puddle has actually
got bigger.

It now looks like it is actually a water leak - probably from the water
main to our house. It would be "their" side of the stopcock (which is well
inside the property and close to the house) and, thankfully, we do not
have a water meter.

I always thought that if the leak was in your grounds then it was your
responsibility?

On Jan 7, 4:02*pm, polygonum wrote:
Hmmm. Having had a puddle that didn't want to go away, we had been
looking forward to a few dry (at least drier) days. But the puddle has
actually got bigger.

It now looks like it is actually a water leak - probably from the water
main to our house. It would be "their" side of the stopcock (which is
well inside the property and close to the house) and, thankfully, we do
not have a water meter.

I rushed out and bought a cheapo drill pump, attached to my cheapo SDS,
which are now valliantly fighting and pumping at a surprisingly good
rate. But the water level hardly drops - goes down a bit then sticks.

If I turn off the SDS (and with that noise, I certainly cannot leave it
going all night), the water flows down the path - or over the lawn -
towards the house. And makes a mini-moat there.

There is no possibility of diverting it usefully - any attempt to dig a
trench away fills up instantly and seems not to contribute anything to
lowering the level.

Called water people - they will come out next Monday.

I have a nasty feeling that:

We are going to have to manage the water ourselves until it gets fixed;
We will end up paying through the nose to someone.

Any useful suggestions appreciated.

(I cannot at the moment think of any role for an angle grinder. Nor a
Fein/Bosch/Aldidl oscillating thingummy.)

--
Rod

They usually take a sample of the water and compare it with your tap
water to see if it is a mains leak or not.

The water often surfaces a long way from the leak (if any),
It tends to follow the trench originally dug.

You may be able to detect the leak with a big screwdriver pressed
against your ear. (Listening stick)
You put the blade on ahard surface or ideally the pipe,
You need to be NOT using any water when listening.

On 07/01/2013 17:40, Mr Pounder wrote:
"polygonum" wrote in message
...
Hmmm. Having had a puddle that didn't want to go away, we had been looking
forward to a few dry (at least drier) days. But the puddle has actually
got bigger.

It now looks like it is actually a water leak - probably from the water
main to our house. It would be "their" side of the stopcock (which is well
inside the property and close to the house) and, thankfully, we do not
have a water meter.

I always thought that if the leak was in your grounds then it was your
responsibility?


I thought it partly depended on whether the mains supplied only one
property? But also in the hope that there might have been some reason
for them to pick up the tab!

It was partly to provide additional information - otherwise I could turn
our stopcock off and largely solve the problem in the very short term.

--
Rod

On 07/01/2013 16:58, A.Lee wrote:

I had the same around 5 years ago, and was told it would be 7 days
before anyone can come to look, maybe 14 days for a fix. Apparently, if
it is on your property, it is your responsibility, but, they will do a
free fix if you are prepared to wait, which is what I presume you have
been told.

Anyway, I went and dug down, which is the worst thing to do, and rather
than a trickle, there was suddenly a torrent of water coming out of the
ground.
Quickly infilled, I had a mostly sleepless night.
Next morning, down to B+Q to buy a pump, which was £35ish. This was
great, so I dug down again, got thoroughly soaked, but the pump allowed
me to find the leak, which was a pinhole in the copper main.
I used the old split hosepipe, with 2 clamps on it trick, clamped around
the hole, and that lasted the 2 weeks until Severn Trent came to fix it
properly.
I dont think it could be done without the pump, as even bucketing the
water out would not keep up with the leakage - surprising when I saw how
small the hole in the pipe was.


Why were you unable to turn off the external stop tap? Had to do this
the other day to remove some obsolete plumbing for a mate in his new
house, only to find that his stop tap was apparently siezed. (I was
*not* going to put a big spanner on that!). Biggest problem was to work
out how it worked: some sort of all-plastic job presenting a hex head to
the house side, and what turned out to be the tap which was a plastic
cylinder with the opposite of a screwdriver slot on the top.

I'm confused as you said its their side of the stop cock so surely the WB
must fix it at their cost. I had one similar before xmas, a leak (in lead)
in a house on WB side of house SC so I tried to turn off shared WB SC stop
cock in neighbors porch which broke handle. Phoned Affinity water (used to
be Three Valleys Water) and said it was emergency and they were excellent,
came and had a look within 2 hours then Balfours came back at dawn, blitzed
out the old valve (through concrete) and fitted a new new nylon one, all
free. I could not thanks them enough superb. Maybe being shared affects it
but might help if you report it as an emergency

As an aside I also turned off WB SC in front of other neighbors house (to
identify which one served customers house) which amusingly resulted in large
lady appearing at front door in towel wanting to know what the F*** I was
playing at turning off water whilst madame was mid-shower, at about 4PM FFS!
Wimin, no sense of adventure...

On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 18:24:37 +0000, polygonum wrote:

I always thought that if the leak was in your grounds then it was
your responsibility?


I thought it partly depended on whether the mains supplied only one
property? But also in the hope that there might have been some reason
for them to pick up the tab!

The demarcation point is the external stopcock. This should be at the
property boundary but frequently isn't. Ours is a good number of yards
down the road I wonder if they'd come a shift it to the property boundary
if I complained? Probably would but also insist on a meter being fitted
as well... It's black alkathene pipe under a verge and a good couple of
feet down, I'd be very surprised if it ever fails.

--
Cheers
Dave.

newshound wrote:

On 07/01/2013 16:58, A.Lee wrote:

I had the same around 5 years ago, and was told it would be 7 days
before anyone can come to look, maybe 14 days for a fix. Apparently, if
it is on your property, it is your responsibility, but, they will do a
free fix if you are prepared to wait, which is what I presume you have
been told.

Why were you unable to turn off the external stop tap?

There wasnt one, or it had been lost under the tarmac.
Severn Trent had to do the repair 'live'.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 07/01/2013 17:40, Mr Pounder wrote:
"polygonum" wrote in message
...
Hmmm. Having had a puddle that didn't want to go away, we had been
looking
forward to a few dry (at least drier) days. But the puddle has actually
got bigger.

It now looks like it is actually a water leak - probably from the water
main to our house. It would be "their" side of the stopcock (which is
well
inside the property and close to the house) and, thankfully, we do not
have a water meter.

I always thought that if the leak was in your grounds then it was your
responsibility?


I thought it partly depended on whether the mains supplied only one
property? But also in the hope that there might have been some reason for
them to pick up the tab!

It was partly to provide additional information - otherwise I could turn
our stopcock off and largely solve the problem in the very short term.

--
Rod

Best check.