This is an odd one. My parents TV has been acting strange ever since
digital switchover. Channel 4 has vanished and has been replaced by a
Welsh version with a noise to signal ratio rather than SNR. There is
enough picture gets through sometimes to recognise that it is C4 but not
enough to be watchable. Looks like Picasso on a bad acid trip.

The channels detected with QOS and SNR out of 10 are

1 BBC1 Ch62 Q10 S7
2 BBC2 Ch62 Q10 S7
3 ITV1 Ch59 Q10 S7
4 S4/C Ch39 Q01 S3
5 Ch5 Ch59 Q10 S7
8 C4 Ch39 Q01 S3

Both these versions of C4 are completely unwatchable due to massive
picture breakup and ultrasonic clicks and pops. Neighbours report
similar problems and also phantom "new channel" retune warnings at
startup that add Welsh stations at terrible signal to noise.

This has only happened since digital D day. Any ideas what is going on?
I had expected it to be a simple matter of retuning but I have tried
several times no without success. All other channels are Q10 S7.

My mum likes to watch Countdown in the afternoons so this is a big one!

I will force a full manufacturers reset next but before I do that and
lose all their preferences I thought I would ask in case it is a known
problem and C4 is off the air near Manchester for some reason.

Thanks for any enlightenment. Somehow I can't imagine that the Welsh
nationalists have teamed up with GMC to block Channel 4 transmissions or
punish Panasonic owners but at the moment it certainly looks like it.

The TV is a Panasonic 27" LCD model TX32LXD700 old enough to still have
an analogue as well as digital tuner. I will retry with a different set
top box tuner but since others in the neighbourhood report wierd
behaviour on C4 and Welsh programs I suspect it is systemic rather than
a fault in the set. Aerial is very high and pointer at WinterHill. All
other channels appear to work OK - only C4 is AWOL and Fubar

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Do a factory reset and try again. However, are you sure the aerial is ok
and pointing at the correct transmitter? Sometimes in marginal areas you
get a better signal from the wrong transmitter. And those marginal areas
aren't just distance from the transmitters. A look at other aerials in the
local area might give a clue if this is a problem.

--
*Can atheists get insurance for acts of God? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 14:35:04 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

I will retry with a different set top box tuner but since others in the
neighbourhood report wierd behaviour on C4 and Welsh programs I suspect
it is systemic rather than a fault in the set. Aerial is very high and
pointer at WinterHill.

If you extend the line house winter hill does it carry on towards
Wales?

As Ch4 is so rough and the others so good bung in an attenuater to nagger
it even further and hopefully the Ch4 from Winter Hill will be found in
preference. WTF the set is insisting on using the crappy one is anyones
guess, have you looked in the 800 or 900 channel range to see if Winter
Hills Ch4 is there? I think you can reassign channels from there to thier
"proper" position.

It's a known problem and there have been discussions about this in the
past, not sure where, may have been in here.

--
Cheers
Dave.

It was in on of the digital groups.
Yes, some sets are now too sensitive since the powers went up. Even here
close to Crystal Palace I get some phantom stations up in the high numbers
from a loft aerial.

No idea where they are from, but they are predictably copies of shopping
channels.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 14:35:04 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

I will retry with a different set top box tuner but since others in the
neighbourhood report wierd behaviour on C4 and Welsh programs I suspect
it is systemic rather than a fault in the set. Aerial is very high and
pointer at WinterHill.

If you extend the line house winter hill does it carry on towards
Wales?

As Ch4 is so rough and the others so good bung in an attenuater to nagger
it even further and hopefully the Ch4 from Winter Hill will be found in
preference. WTF the set is insisting on using the crappy one is anyones
guess, have you looked in the 800 or 900 channel range to see if Winter
Hills Ch4 is there? I think you can reassign channels from there to thier
"proper" position.

It's a known problem and there have been discussions about this in the
past, not sure where, may have been in here.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , Martin Brown |||newspam|||@
nezumi.demon.co.uk writes

Aerial is very high and pointer at WinterHill. All
other channels appear to work OK - only C4 is AWOL and Fubar

I had exactly the same problem, it was the PVR picking up the Welsh
relay at Storeton as well as Winter Hill, so I was getting BBC1, BBC1
Wales, ITV1, ITV1 Wales, S4C, etc.

I cured it by putting 18dB of attenuation in the aerial lead, that
stopped the PVR's automatic tune picking up the Storeton channels.

An alternative is to do a manual tune and select the channels from
Winter Hill. To do this you need to know the channel allocations. Plug
yer mum's postcode into this:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/transmitt...hy/frequency_p
lans_and_channel_allocation

to see what channels she should be receiving. The Winter Hill channels
a

50 - BBC A
59 - D3&4
54 - BBC B HD
58 - SDN
49 - ARQ A
55 - ARQ B

54 is HDTV, you'll need an HD decoder for that.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Stoopid question, but what is reception like on C4 + 1?

On 05/12/2012 16:03, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Martin Brown |||newspam|||@
nezumi.demon.co.uk writes

Aerial is very high and pointer at WinterHill. All
other channels appear to work OK - only C4 is AWOL and Fubar

I had exactly the same problem, it was the PVR picking up the Welsh
relay at Storeton as well as Winter Hill, so I was getting BBC1, BBC1
Wales, ITV1, ITV1 Wales, S4C, etc.

Only Ch4 is missing but loss of Countdown is giving me a LOT of grief.

My parents are elderly pensioners - so is there any chance of beating
the living daylights out of that stupid pink robot that claimed digital
switchover would be dead easy and making them sort it out?

I cured it by putting 18dB of attenuation in the aerial lead, that
stopped the PVR's automatic tune picking up the Storeton channels.

An alternative is to do a manual tune and select the channels from
Winter Hill. To do this you need to know the channel allocations. Plug
yer mum's postcode into this:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/transmitt...hy/frequency_p
lans_and_channel_allocation

I don't understand the acronyms but I cannot see any Channel 4 signal at
all even with manual tuning (which on this specifc digital Panasonic is
tedious beyond imagination). Am I missing something here or is the
behaviour just totally perverse when the signal level gets too high?

I can get my wife to bring another tuner down at the weekend and my
selection of attenuators. Seems odd that you have to hobble the front
end to make it behave now the power has been increased!

I could have the aerial repointed at Saddleworth (nearer) but ISTR they
had severe multipath ghosting on analogue in that direction. Looking
across all the skyscrapers and more have been built since then.

All the remaining local terrestrial aerials which have not fallen off or
left hanging off the chimneys are facing Winterhill. Most are on
satellite or cable which are both available in this urban setting.

to see what channels she should be receiving. The Winter Hill channels
a

50 - BBC A
59 - D3&4
54 - BBC B HD
58 - SDN
49 - ARQ A
55 - ARQ B

54 is HDTV, you'll need an HD decoder for that.

It would be easier to install a satellite except changing anything is
met with *enormous* resistance. They still hanker after Ceefax (and to
be honest so do I the new red button is a PITA for data services).

Any pointers to earlier discussions of this digital MFU would be greatly
appreciated. It seems a bit crazy that they cannot get major
connurbations like Manchester with correct signal levels to work!

It was all working perfectly for five or six years prior to D-day

Regards,
Martin Brown

On 05/12/2012 18:01, GB wrote:

Stoopid question, but what is reception like on C4 + 1?

I had forgotten that there was a Ch4+1. It isn't there either nor is
it's Welsh Doppelganger cubist breakup version with clicks and pops.

We don't watch TDTV at home so I am unfamiliar with what channels
*should* be there. And anyway they do seem to vary with region...

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Dec 5, 2:35*pm, Martin Brown
wrote:
This is an odd one. My parents TV has been acting strange ever since
digital switchover. Channel 4 has vanished and has been replaced by a
Welsh version with a noise to signal ratio rather than SNR. There is
enough picture gets through sometimes to recognise that it is C4 but not
enough to be watchable. Looks like Picasso on a bad acid trip.

The channels detected with QOS and SNR out of 10 are

1 BBC1 Ch62 Q10 S7
2 BBC2 Ch62 Q10 S7
3 ITV1 Ch59 Q10 S7
4 S4/C Ch39 Q01 S3
5 Ch5 *Ch59 Q10 S7
8 C4 * Ch39 Q01 S3

Both these versions of C4 are completely unwatchable due to massive
picture breakup and ultrasonic clicks and pops. Neighbours report
similar problems and also phantom "new channel" retune warnings at
startup that add Welsh stations at terrible signal to noise.

This has only happened since digital D day. Any ideas what is going on?
I had expected it to be a simple matter of retuning but I have tried
several times no without success. All other channels are Q10 S7.

My mum likes to watch Countdown in the afternoons so this is a big one!

I will force a full manufacturers reset next but before I do that and
lose all their preferences I thought I would ask in case it is a known
problem and C4 is off the air near Manchester for some reason.

Thanks for any enlightenment. Somehow I can't imagine that the Welsh
nationalists have teamed up with GMC to block Channel 4 transmissions or
punish Panasonic owners but at the moment it certainly looks like it.

The TV is a Panasonic 27" LCD model TX32LXD700 old enough to still have
an analogue as well as digital tuner. I will retry with a different set
top box tuner but since others in the neighbourhood report wierd
behaviour on C4 and Welsh programs I suspect it is systemic rather than
a fault in the set. Aerial is very high and pointer at WinterHill. All
other channels appear to work OK - only C4 is AWOL and Fubar

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Regards,
Martin Brown

I have a Panasonic as well. I have had to install an aerial amplifier.
I think it's because I live in a hilly area.
I now get around seventy channels. Most of it is ****.

Consider too getting "Freesat" if reception is really bad.
Even more channels mostly the same but not all.

On 05/12/2012 18:36, harry wrote:

Consider too getting "Freesat" if reception is really bad.
Even more channels mostly the same but not all.

Are there any FreeSat tuners that map the Satellite channels down onto
the same set of numbers as TDTV? In particular for aged parents having
to remember to press 101 to get 1 and 102 to get 2 is very unhelpful.

(any that reset everything to default again every retuning do not count)

It is very hard to sell all the extra channels as an improvement since
they never seem to look at anything that they didn't have on analogue...
Except the rolling News on 80.

Regards,
Martin Brown

As others have suggested, it seems likely that you are picking up
Storeton, which transmits both English and Welsh channel sets. Put
the relevant postcode into my TV Aerial Alignment Calculator, under
transmitters choose 'Find the nearest', and check whether Storeton
seems a likely candidate. Don't forget that many aerials pick up
appreciable signals from side lobes and even sometimes through the
back.

http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/Audi...Calculator.php

If you don't know what transmitter she *should* be receiving, you can
try 'Find the likeliest', and also check in the official UK post code
checker which is linked from the bottom of the page.

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 14:35:04 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

This is an odd one. My parents TV has been acting strange ever since
digital switchover. Channel 4 has vanished and has been replaced by a
Welsh version with a noise to signal ratio rather than SNR. There is
enough picture gets through sometimes to recognise that it is C4 but not
enough to be watchable. Looks like Picasso on a bad acid trip.

The channels detected with QOS and SNR out of 10 are

1 BBC1 Ch62 Q10 S7
2 BBC2 Ch62 Q10 S7
3 ITV1 Ch59 Q10 S7
4 S4/C Ch39 Q01 S3
5 Ch5 Ch59 Q10 S7
8 C4 Ch39 Q01 S3

Both these versions of C4 are completely unwatchable due to massive
picture breakup and ultrasonic clicks and pops. Neighbours report
similar problems and also phantom "new channel" retune warnings at
startup that add Welsh stations at terrible signal to noise.

This has only happened since digital D day. Any ideas what is going on?
I had expected it to be a simple matter of retuning but I have tried
several times no without success. All other channels are Q10 S7.

My mum likes to watch Countdown in the afternoons so this is a big one!

I will force a full manufacturers reset next but before I do that and
lose all their preferences I thought I would ask in case it is a known
problem and C4 is off the air near Manchester for some reason.

Thanks for any enlightenment. Somehow I can't imagine that the Welsh
nationalists have teamed up with GMC to block Channel 4 transmissions or
punish Panasonic owners but at the moment it certainly looks like it.

The TV is a Panasonic 27" LCD model TX32LXD700 old enough to still have
an analogue as well as digital tuner. I will retry with a different set
top box tuner but since others in the neighbourhood report wierd
behaviour on C4 and Welsh programs I suspect it is systemic rather than
a fault in the set. Aerial is very high and pointer at WinterHill. All
other channels appear to work OK - only C4 is AWOL and Fubar

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Regards,
Martin Brown
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 14:35:04 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

This is an odd one. My parents TV has been acting strange ever since
digital switchover. Channel 4 has vanished and has been replaced by a
Welsh version with a noise to signal ratio rather than SNR.

You might find a manual tune gets overridden by a later autotune triggered by a
channel renumbering or finger trouble by the user.

Filtering the aerial signal can be useful in eliminating any unwanted channels
(it can be a better solution than a simple attenuator)

I've used Optima bandpass filters before

http://www.optima-tv.com/products.as...ry=Accessories

(not from the following supplier but they at least they still carry the full
range unlike the supplier I used previously)

http://www.coastalaerials.com/Optima.htm

Might be worth posting to uk.tech.digital-tv ?

--

On 05/12/2012 14:35, Martin Brown wrote:
This is an odd one. My parents TV has been acting strange ever since
digital switchover. Channel 4 has vanished and has been replaced by a
Welsh version with a noise to signal ratio rather than SNR. There is
enough picture gets through sometimes to recognise that it is C4 but not
enough to be watchable. Looks like Picasso on a bad acid trip.

The channels detected with QOS and SNR out of 10 are

1 BBC1 Ch62 Q10 S7
2 BBC2 Ch62 Q10 S7
3 ITV1 Ch59 Q10 S7
4 S4/C Ch39 Q01 S3
5 Ch5 Ch59 Q10 S7
8 C4 Ch39 Q01 S3

Both these versions of C4 are completely unwatchable due to massive
picture breakup and ultrasonic clicks and pops. Neighbours report
similar problems and also phantom "new channel" retune warnings at
startup that add Welsh stations at terrible signal to noise.

This has only happened since digital D day. Any ideas what is going on?
I had expected it to be a simple matter of retuning but I have tried
several times no without success. All other channels are Q10 S7.

My mum likes to watch Countdown in the afternoons so this is a big one!

I will force a full manufacturers reset next but before I do that and
lose all their preferences I thought I would ask in case it is a known
problem and C4 is off the air near Manchester for some reason.

Thanks for any enlightenment. Somehow I can't imagine that the Welsh
nationalists have teamed up with GMC to block Channel 4 transmissions or
punish Panasonic owners but at the moment it certainly looks like it.

The TV is a Panasonic 27" LCD model TX32LXD700 old enough to still have
an analogue as well as digital tuner. I will retry with a different set
top box tuner but since others in the neighbourhood report wierd
behaviour on C4 and Welsh programs I suspect it is systemic rather than
a fault in the set. Aerial is very high and pointer at WinterHill. All
other channels appear to work OK - only C4 is AWOL and Fubar

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Regards,
Martin Brown

As others have said, you're picking up Ch4 from the wrong transmitter
because the auto tune is finding the wrong one first.

Again, as others have said, the best solution is to do a manual tune,
having first determined which UHF channels are carrying the desired MUXes.

Meanwhile, have a look on the TV in the 800's. You may well find that
the proper Ch4 is somewhere up there rather than at 4. You might even be
able to juggle the numbers without doing a re-tune.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:
Might be worth posting to uk.tech.digital-tv ?

Yes - something at the back of my mind says there was a problem with some
Panasonic sets which can be fixed. Trying an external tuner would prove
this.

--
*What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Java Jive
writes
As others have suggested, it seems likely that you are picking up
Storeton, which transmits both English and Welsh channel sets.

I'd be quite surprised if someone near Manchester was affected by
Storeton's Welsh transmissions, but this made me try to look at whether
the transmissions from this site were directional.
As usual, I looked but failed to find. Don't they do maps of transmitter
service areas any more?

I've recounted before my problems with Storeton. From here it's almost
directly in line with Winter Hill, just down the road and pumping out
Welsh on adjacent channels and with the same polarity. The tuners in
various devices I've seen all behaved differently, and trying to get a
set top box from a local Curry's that actually worked and was usable was
a complete nightmare. One elderly relation ended up with a third box,
and a conversion chart from me with things like BBC1 = Channel xxx, BBC2
= yyy and so on. I think in practice she just uses the up/down buttons
until it speaks English and the presenter looks like Fiona.

--
Bill

In article , Martin Brown |||newspam||
writes

It was all working perfectly for five or six years prior to D-day

On D-day they boosted the transmitter power for the digital channels
from 10kW to 100kW. It's too high for some digiboxes to cope with.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Bill wrote:
I'd be quite surprised if someone near Manchester was affected by
Storeton's Welsh transmissions, but this made me try to look at whether
the transmissions from this site were directional.
As usual, I looked but failed to find.
Don't they do maps of transmitter service areas any more?

The radiation patterns (per mux) of the smaller transmitters were
released under an FOI request, e.g Nottingham

http://www.ukfree.tv/txdetail.php?a=SK503435

but releasing information for the larger transmitters (Including
Storeton) were refused as not in the nation's interest

http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051972

Unlike most of the rumours and speculation, the radiation maps on
ukfreetv are a useful feature.

On 05/12/2012 18:26, Martin Brown wrote:
On 05/12/2012 18:01, GB wrote:

Stoopid question, but what is reception like on C4 + 1?

I had forgotten that there was a Ch4+1. It isn't there either nor is
it's Welsh Doppelganger cubist breakup version with clicks and pops.

We don't watch TDTV at home so I am unfamiliar with what channels
*should* be there. And anyway they do seem to vary with region...

Countdown is also on ch 47. How about that one?

In article ,
says...

The channels detected with QOS and SNR out of 10 are

4 S4/C Ch39 Q01 S3
8 C4 Ch39 Q01 S3


As has been pointed out before,

The Winter Hill channels a

50 - BBC A
59 - D3&4
54 - BBC B HD
58 - SDN
49 - ARQ A
55 - ARQ B

When you do a retune, the set scans from Ch21 - Ch68.

If it finds valid signals, it stores them, even if they are from the
wrong transmitter. If duplicates (from the local transmitter) are found
later on (ie: on a higher channel) these should still be stored but,
rather than over write the original allocations, they are added above
everything else - usually in the 800s, as others have said.

In your case, the unwanted Welsh signals are seen before the Winter Hill
ones because they are on a lower channel - 39 - whereas Winter Hill
muxes do not start until ch49.

There is a simple solution to this: unplug the aerial and do a complete
scan. As the scan progresses, it should indicate the number of the
channel being scanned.

Wait until it reaches Ch40, then plug the aerial back in so that it
picks up the local muxes from Ch49 up ...

As has been said before, a large attenuator in the aerial feed may
achieve the same result without unplugging the aerial.

If you have a selection of attenuators and a good local signal strength,
it might be useful to experiment to see if you can find a value which
stops the Ch39 mux from being recognised but doesn't cause any
deterioration of local reception.

Leave this plugged in to provide a permanent solution as the set can
then be retuned in the future without the problem recurring.

Note: you say the problem only started at DSO (because the unwanted mux
power was increased). If the local muxes pre-DSO were ok, as these have
also increased in power, it will be obvious that you have surplus signal
levels to play about with ...

--

Terry

In article ,
Terry Casey writes

If it finds valid signals, it stores them, even if they are from the
wrong transmitter. If duplicates (from the local transmitter) are found
later on (ie: on a higher channel) these should still be stored but,
rather than over write the original allocations, they are added above
everything else

I believe some DTV boxes will, if they detect channels from more than
one transmitter, offer you the option to select the one you wish to use.
But I haven't actually seen one.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article , says...

I believe some DTV boxes will, if they detect channels from more than
one transmitter, offer you the option to select the one you wish to use.

But that is very obviously not the case here ...

But I haven't actually seen one.

.... Neither has the OP, it would seem ...

--

Terry

I have a Panasonic as well. I have had to install an aerial amplifier.
I think it's because I live in a hilly area.
I now get around seventy channels. Most of it is ****.

Consider too getting "Freesat" if reception is really bad.
Even more channels mostly the same but not all.

Martin....

Any chance of a photo of the aerial in use being posted somewhere and
the house which upon its mounted perhaps?....
--
Tony Sayer

On 06/12/2012 16:48, Terry Casey wrote: In article
, says...

I believe some DTV boxes will, if they detect channels from more than
one transmitter, offer you the option to select the one you wish to use.

But that is very obviously not the case here ...

Indeed. This Panasonic kit is exceptionally cretinous in this respect.
It would be hard in fact to think of a more stupid f*ckwit algorithm for
allocating signals to keypad channel slots.

First one found grabs the slot forever and so if the phantom stations
are in low channels you are in big trouble!

What happens is that because Welsh Wales programs are on channel 39 with
lousy SNR if they are detected then they squat on the slot forever and
the later search of the local transmitter despite finding perfectly good
broadcast signals cannot replace them. Nor can you replace them with a
manual rescan of the "right" channels - it prefers the useless zero
signal to noise thing it has to the Q10 S7 signal in the bush.

The only thing that works (although actually the method you suggested is
equivalent) is to scan the entire range with the aerial disconnected and
then force manual tuning on *only* the local transmitter channels.

Oh and then disable warn on new channels found or the phantoms from the
distant transmitter will cause your aged relatives to do what you told
them to do dozens of times before to get rid of the annoying big grey
screen on bootup that says "New channels found retune Y/N?".

Third time lucky it seems.

A block scanning on this channel would be much more appropriateand would
then allow ordinary users to deal with interference problems from
neighbouring regions.

You would think that they would have thought it through so as not to
create a crosstalk problem in a major city like Manchester where most on
the West side point at Winter Hill and the nearly in line Welsh
repeater! Now that I am aware of the issue lots of people have chimed in
that their set finds phantom Welsh channels with cubist rendition!

I wonder how many Panasonic models are screwed up in this respect?


But I haven't actually seen one.

... Neither has the OP, it would seem ...

I cannot see why any engineer with more than two brain cells to rub
together would allow a program slot to be occupied with a signal so bad
that it cannot support decoding when a much better one comes along.

Don't they teach signal to noise in modern electronics courses?

Regards,
Martin Brown

In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 06/12/2012 16:48, Terry Casey wrote: In article
, says...

I believe some DTV boxes will, if they detect channels from more than
one transmitter, offer you the option to select the one you wish to use.

But that is very obviously not the case here ...

Indeed. This Panasonic kit is exceptionally cretinous in this respect.
It would be hard in fact to think of a more stupid f*ckwit algorithm
for allocating signals to keypad channel slots.

First one found grabs the slot forever and so if the phantom stations
are in low channels you are in big trouble!

What happens is that because Welsh Wales programs are on channel 39
with lousy SNR if they are detected then they squat on the slot forever
and the later search of the local transmitter despite finding perfectly
good broadcast signals cannot replace them. Nor can you replace them
with a manual rescan of the "right" channels - it prefers the useless
zero signal to noise thing it has to the Q10 S7 signal in the bush.

The only thing that works (although actually the method you suggested
is equivalent) is to scan the entire range with the aerial disconnected
and then force manual tuning on *only* the local transmitter channels.

Oh and then disable warn on new channels found or the phantoms from the
distant transmitter will cause your aged relatives to do what you told
them to do dozens of times before to get rid of the annoying big grey
screen on bootup that says "New channels found retune Y/N?".

Third time lucky it seems.

A block scanning on this channel would be much more appropriateand
would then allow ordinary users to deal with interference problems from
neighbouring regions.

You would think that they would have thought it through so as not to
create a crosstalk problem in a major city like Manchester where most
on the West side point at Winter Hill and the nearly in line Welsh
repeater! Now that I am aware of the issue lots of people have chimed
in that their set finds phantom Welsh channels with cubist rendition!

I wonder how many Panasonic models are screwed up in this respect?


But I haven't actually seen one.

... Neither has the OP, it would seem ...

I cannot see why any engineer with more than two brain cells to rub
together would allow a program slot to be occupied with a signal so bad
that it cannot support decoding when a much better one comes along.

Don't they teach signal to noise in modern electronics courses?

Regards,
Martin Brown

CH 39 does represent the main Moel y Parc transmitter. As I said before,
I doubt if Storeton could be picked up near Manchester, but it is on
CH57 with the same polarisation as Winter Hill on CH59. That's the
problem where I am.


--
Bill

On 06/12/12 14:45, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article ,
Terry Casey writes

If it finds valid signals, it stores them, even if they are from the
wrong transmitter. If duplicates (from the local transmitter) are found
later on (ie: on a higher channel) these should still be stored but,
rather than over write the original allocations, they are added above
everything else

I believe some DTV boxes will, if they detect channels from more than
one transmitter, offer you the option to select the one you wish to use.
But I haven't actually seen one.

My sony boxes did. But then I got a more directional aerial and the
ghosts went away..


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.