Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it
as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say
passports and just a few household documents. I am trying to build
something which in the event of a fire the documents dont go up in
flames or at least would have a better chance of survival than the
cardboard box my wife currently keeps them in. Also trying to use
whatever materials I have at hand.

Initially I would start of with a metal box aprrox 12 inches sq
I then thought to line the exterior with a couple of layers of
plasterboard. And then a layer of chipboard.

For security I was then thinking of encasing this in some concrete just
to make it heavy and bolt it onto floor/wall or wherever I decide to
locate it.

The door I havent planned yet.

Any thoughts on this or anyone done something similar?

On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 16:30:09 +0100, ss wrote:

Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it
as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say
passports and just a few household documents.

Is it worth it? You can buy something with a 30 min fire rating for paper
at around £50...

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/fireproof-boxes/

Random google link showing a range of boxes.

The problem with a fireproof box is keeping the inside cool enough to
stop the paper inside oxidising/charing. Remember a good domestic fire
will get to around 1000C and when the brigade arrive lots of water...

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
ss writes:
Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it
as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say
passports and just a few household documents. I am trying to build
something which in the event of a fire the documents dont go up in
flames or at least would have a better chance of survival than the
cardboard box my wife currently keeps them in. Also trying to use
whatever materials I have at hand.

Initially I would start of with a metal box aprrox 12 inches sq
I then thought to line the exterior with a couple of layers of
plasterboard. And then a layer of chipboard.

For security I was then thinking of encasing this in some concrete just
to make it heavy and bolt it onto floor/wall or wherever I decide to
locate it.

The door I havent planned yet.

Any thoughts on this or anyone done something similar?

I was involved in specifying commercial ones many years/jobs ago.
I would suggest reading up on those a bit. In particular, you need
some thermal insulation, and inside that some substantial heat
capacity to delay temperature rise in the safe so it won't get
too hot before the fire is put out. ("Too hot" depends what you're
storing in there, of course.) Also needs remain waterproof
when firemen spray a hose on the red-hot outer surface, if the
contents would be damaged by water.

A lot was learned about fire safes during the Northern Ireland
troubles, where many were put to the test, and there were many
previously unanticipated failure modes. One of the most common
was where the safe protected the contents from the fire just fine,
but the contents were destroyed by the efforts to open the safe
afterwards. This typically happens when a fire safe falls through
floors of a burning building or a building collapses on top of it,
and the doors will no longer open without the use of welding
torches and angle grinders.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Yes I was just thinking that. You almost need a vacuum chamber and very good
insulation, but the door is the weak link obviously.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 16:30:09 +0100, ss wrote:

Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it
as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say
passports and just a few household documents.

Is it worth it? You can buy something with a 30 min fire rating for paper
at around £50...

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/fireproof-boxes/

Random google link showing a range of boxes.

The problem with a fireproof box is keeping the inside cool enough to
stop the paper inside oxidising/charing. Remember a good domestic fire
will get to around 1000C and when the brigade arrive lots of water...

--
Cheers
Dave.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
ss writes:
Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it
as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say
passports and just a few household documents. I am trying to build
something which in the event of a fire the documents dont go up in
flames or at least would have a better chance of survival than the
cardboard box my wife currently keeps them in. Also trying to use
whatever materials I have at hand.

Initially I would start of with a metal box aprrox 12 inches sq
I then thought to line the exterior with a couple of layers of
plasterboard. And then a layer of chipboard.

For security I was then thinking of encasing this in some concrete just
to make it heavy and bolt it onto floor/wall or wherever I decide to
locate it.

The door I havent planned yet.

Any thoughts on this or anyone done something similar?

I was involved in specifying commercial ones many years/jobs ago.
I would suggest reading up on those a bit. In particular, you need
some thermal insulation, and inside that some substantial heat
capacity to delay temperature rise in the safe so it won't get
too hot before the fire is put out. ("Too hot" depends what you're
storing in there, of course.) Also needs remain waterproof
when firemen spray a hose on the red-hot outer surface, if the
contents would be damaged by water.


When you're considering the "too hot" temperature, paper will survive up
to about 200 C depending on the ink used, while most thumb drives will
expire at below 100 C, and magnetic media such as floppies or hard
drives will lose their data at not much more than 60 C. Writeable
optical media are less predictable, and less stable than magnetic ones.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 2012-10-04, Brian Gaff wrote:

Yes I was just thinking that. You almost need a vacuum chamber and very good
insulation, but the door is the weak link obviously.

Large Thermos flask wrapped in rockwool?

On Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:30:17 PM UTC+1, ss wrote:
Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it

as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say

passports and just a few household documents. I am trying to build

something which in the event of a fire the documents dont go up in

flames or at least would have a better chance of survival than the

cardboard box my wife currently keeps them in. Also trying to use

whatever materials I have at hand.



Initially I would start of with a metal box aprrox 12 inches sq

I then thought to line the exterior with a couple of layers of

plasterboard. And then a layer of chipboard.



For security I was then thinking of encasing this in some concrete just

to make it heavy and bolt it onto floor/wall or wherever I decide to

locate it.



The door I havent planned yet.



Any thoughts on this or anyone done something similar?

The standard material to fill the inner/outer gap is plaster. When heated enough it gives off a lot of water, absorbing a lot of heat before it fails by letting the high temps through. Chipboard is one of the more fire resistant diy materials. Papercrete is also good, and a good insulator, and small amounts are soon made with a kitchen blending wand. For fire protection I'd use a lot of cement in it, or maybe plaster would be better than the cement content. Cost? For papercrete, next to nothing.


NT

ss wrote:
Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it
as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say
passports and just a few household documents. I am trying to build
something which in the event of a fire the documents dont go up in
flames or at least would have a better chance of survival than the
cardboard box my wife currently keeps them in. Also trying to use
whatever materials I have at hand.

Initially I would start of with a metal box aprrox 12 inches sq
I then thought to line the exterior with a couple of layers of
plasterboard. And then a layer of chipboard.

For security I was then thinking of encasing this in some concrete just
to make it heavy and bolt it onto floor/wall or wherever I decide to
locate it.

The door I havent planned yet.

Any thoughts on this or anyone done something similar?

IIRC the way to do this is to have ****loads of fireproof insulation.
plasterboard is good I think. but there are better materials.

I can't remember what they are tho.

I have to say the wife bought some nomex gloves and I was able to put my
hand on a 300C hotplate and keep it there..so that's a possible one.

Look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBVr7kMg370

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 04/10/2012 21:37, wrote:
On Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:30:17 PM UTC+1, ss wrote:
Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it

as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say

passports and just a few household documents. I am trying to build

something which in the event of a fire the documents dont go up in

flames or at least would have a better chance of survival than the

cardboard box my wife currently keeps them in. Also trying to use

whatever materials I have at hand.



Initially I would start of with a metal box aprrox 12 inches sq

I then thought to line the exterior with a couple of layers of

plasterboard. And then a layer of chipboard.



For security I was then thinking of encasing this in some concrete just

to make it heavy and bolt it onto floor/wall or wherever I decide to

locate it.



The door I havent planned yet.



Any thoughts on this or anyone done something similar?

The standard material to fill the inner/outer gap is plaster. When heated enough it gives off a lot of water, absorbing a lot of heat before it fails by letting the high temps through. Chipboard is one of the more fire resistant diy materials. Papercrete is also good, and a good insulator, and small amounts are soon made with a kitchen blending wand. For fire protection I'd use a lot of cement in it, or maybe plaster would be better than the cement content. Cost? For papercrete, next to nothing.


NT

Thanks for all replies, yes maybe easier just to buy a safe but that
wont happen, its a DIY project for me and as previously mention better
than my wifes cardboard box.I have lots of left over material from a few
DIY projects.

ss wrote:
On 04/10/2012 21:37, wrote:
On Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:30:17 PM UTC+1, ss wrote:
Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it

as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say

passports and just a few household documents. I am trying to build

something which in the event of a fire the documents dont go up in

flames or at least would have a better chance of survival than the

cardboard box my wife currently keeps them in. Also trying to use

whatever materials I have at hand.



Initially I would start of with a metal box aprrox 12 inches sq

I then thought to line the exterior with a couple of layers of

plasterboard. And then a layer of chipboard.



For security I was then thinking of encasing this in some concrete just

to make it heavy and bolt it onto floor/wall or wherever I decide to

locate it.



The door I havent planned yet.



Any thoughts on this or anyone done something similar?

The standard material to fill the inner/outer gap is plaster. When
heated enough it gives off a lot of water, absorbing a lot of heat
before it fails by letting the high temps through. Chipboard is one of
the more fire resistant diy materials. Papercrete is also good, and a
good insulator, and small amounts are soon made with a kitchen
blending wand. For fire protection I'd use a lot of cement in it, or
maybe plaster would be better than the cement content. Cost? For
papercrete, next to nothing.


NT

Thanks for all replies, yes maybe easier just to buy a safe but that
wont happen, its a DIY project for me and as previously mention better
than my wifes cardboard box.I have lots of left over material from a few
DIY projects.
OK..i've remembered something.

There are three genuinely good fireproof things I've come across.
SOME vermiculite. That's the stuff they pour into Agas to stop the heat
getting ouut - mostly! then there is rockwool I already mentioned in the
last post. I've used rockwool behind a pipe when soldering up plumbing.
It bloody well works.

Finally there is masterboard and/or multiboard/ Tht also I have used to
do blowtorch work on

http://www.insulationexpress.co.uk/F...tion-Board.htm

The biggest problem with a safe is the opening part - that represents a
vulnerability.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 04/10/2012 22:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
ss wrote:
Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making
it as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say
passports and just a few household documents. I am trying to build
something which in the event of a fire the documents dont go up in
flames or at least would have a better chance of survival than the
cardboard box my wife currently keeps them in. Also trying to use
whatever materials I have at hand.

Initially I would start of with a metal box aprrox 12 inches sq
I then thought to line the exterior with a couple of layers of
plasterboard. And then a layer of chipboard.

For security I was then thinking of encasing this in some concrete
just to make it heavy and bolt it onto floor/wall or wherever I decide
to locate it.

The door I havent planned yet.

Any thoughts on this or anyone done something similar?

IIRC the way to do this is to have ****loads of fireproof insulation.
plasterboard is good I think. but there are better materials.

I can't remember what they are tho.

I have to say the wife bought some nomex gloves and I was able to put my
hand on a 300C hotplate and keep it there..so that's a possible one.

Look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBVr7kMg370

Thanks for info, another point (my logic) where the `safe` is located
will have a bearing (I think) like on the ground floor at floor level as
heat rises this should give some extra time before it all cooks.

In article ,
ss writes:
Thanks for info, another point (my logic) where the `safe` is located
will have a bearing (I think) like on the ground floor at floor level as
heat rises this should give some extra time before it all cooks.

but it will be sitting in the water from the fire hoses.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Thursday, 4 October 2012 16:30:17 UTC+1, ss wrote:
Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it
as secure as I can.

Much of what needs security doesn't need fire & v.v., so it's often easier to build two, one of each.

Whatever you make, make some lift-out boxes that fill the safe neatly. You'll get twice as much useful volume that way. You can also store jewellery in rolls or a case, not individual boxes.

For fireproofing, plasterboard and very small clearances is good, all wrapped up in intumescent paint. Poured plaster is even better (the cardboard of plasterboard can form a leak). I wouldn't use chipboard for a liner - if I really wanted to line the plasterboard, I'd use oak.

If you need solid security, in some ways it's easier to build a safe in situ than it is to install a ready-built one. You can do things like concrete pours, or tungsten carbide aggregate (old milling machine tooling bits). This also allows you to build to a custom size. I've got a gun safe to build soon, which is relatively simple tech, but it will be good to make it as a built-in filling a suitable brick cupboard space.

Mostly though, you need welding and ideally plasma cutting too. Building a safe from mild steel is a waste of time, you might just as well buy one. Stainless steel used to be a useful anti-drill material, but angle grinders now make short work of it. So really you need to find some plate that's resistant enough to make it hard to work (hence the plasma), or else pour a hard aggregate. Another good trick is to use mild steel, but to hard-face it with a suitable stick welder rod.

If you're after a floor safe, then hefty mild steel is available quite easily from gas cylinders (caveat opener!) and you can drill proof the sides with aggregate. This just leaves you with a lid to make resistant.

Some people have used ceramic armour plate to make safes, but you have to water jet cut this.

Locks are fairly easy, you just buy them. Often from a S/H safe. Most of mine use combination locks, for which I use Chubb Manifoils as they're well known and better than most other mechanical combination locks. If you're doing it seriously, then use a lock with bolts on both sides (so it doesn't rely on the hinges) and just use simple weld-on external hinges. More simply (but still fiddly) you can use internal hinges and a one-point lock. This has to be rigid though, or it's too easy to lever it open.

On 04/10/12 23:55, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
ss writes:
Thanks for info, another point (my logic) where the `safe` is located
will have a bearing (I think) like on the ground floor at floor level as
heat rises this should give some extra time before it all cooks.

but it will be sitting in the water from the fire hoses.

But at least if it stated on the ground it will not be bent by the fall,
OTOH it may be buried under a lot of rubble...



--
djc

On 05/10/2012 02:39, djc wrote:
On 04/10/12 23:55, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
ss writes:
Thanks for info, another point (my logic) where the `safe` is located
will have a bearing (I think) like on the ground floor at floor level as
heat rises this should give some extra time before it all cooks.

but it will be sitting in the water from the fire hoses.

But at least if it stated on the ground it will not be bent by the fall,
OTOH it may be buried under a lot of rubble...



Surely, for fire protection, you put it in your underground swimming
pool? If you don't yet have one, that would make a good project. And
remember to make the safe waterproof...

--
Rod

On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 16:30:09 +0100, ss wrote:

Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it
as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say
passports and just a few household documents. I am trying to build
something which in the event of a fire the documents dont go up in

Improve your fire safety in your home.
Have a good smoke alarm fitted. Test it.


flames or at least would have a better chance of survival than the
cardboard box my wife currently keeps them in. Also trying to use
whatever materials I have at hand.

Initially I would start of with a metal box aprrox 12 inches sq
I then thought to line the exterior with a couple of layers of
plasterboard. And then a layer of chipboard.

For security I was then thinking of encasing this in some concrete just
to make it heavy and bolt it onto floor/wall or wherever I decide to
locate it.

The door I havent planned yet.

Any thoughts on this or anyone done something similar?
--
http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk

On 04/10/2012 20:31, John Williamson wrote:

When you're considering the "too hot" temperature, paper will survive up
to about 200 C depending on the ink used, while most thumb drives will
expire at below 100 C, and magnetic media such as floppies or hard
drives will lose their data at not much more than 60 C. Writeable
optical media are less predictable, and less stable than magnetic ones.

You are making a very, very good case for off-site storage of essential
data.

在 2012å¹´10月4日星期四UTC+8下å�ˆ11æ—¶30分17ç§ ’，ss写é�“：
Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it

as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say

passports and just a few household documents. I am trying to build

something which in the event of a fire the documents dont go up in

flames or at least would have a better chance of survival than the

cardboard box my wife currently keeps them in. Also trying to use

whatever materials I have at hand.



Initially I would start of with a metal box aprrox 12 inches sq

I then thought to line the exterior with a couple of layers of

plasterboard. And then a layer of chipboard.



For security I was then thinking of encasing this in some concrete just

to make it heavy and bolt it onto floor/wall or wherever I decide to

locate it.



The door I havent planned yet.



Any thoughts on this or anyone done something similar?

http://www.cheapuggbootsonline2012.co.uk/

On 04/10/2012 23:24, ss wrote:
....
Thanks for info, another point (my logic) where the `safe` is located
will have a bearing (I think) like on the ground floor at floor level as
heat rises this should give some extra time before it all cooks.

However, it can be covered in burning rubble when the house collapses on
it. The best place is in a different building from the fire. I have a
fire safe in a brick built shed that is fitted with a security door and
has no possible sources of ignition inside.

Colin Bignell

GB wrote:
On 04/10/2012 20:31, John Williamson wrote:

When you're considering the "too hot" temperature, paper will survive up
to about 200 C depending on the ink used, while most thumb drives will
expire at below 100 C, and magnetic media such as floppies or hard
drives will lose their data at not much more than 60 C. Writeable
optical media are less predictable, and less stable than magnetic ones.

You are making a very, very good case for off-site storage of essential
data.

Intended. It's not backed up until it's off site, ideally in two
separate locations.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

if you cut a hole in the floor
and then dig down
and store things in the earth
with a few layers of brick / chipboard etc above it
then even if the house burns down
it may not get very hot.

[g]


On 04/10/12 16:30, ss wrote:
Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it
as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say
passports and just a few household documents. I am trying to build
something which in the event of a fire the documents dont go up in
flames or at least would have a better chance of survival than the
cardboard box my wife currently keeps them in. Also trying to use
whatever materials I have at hand.

Initially I would start of with a metal box aprrox 12 inches sq
I then thought to line the exterior with a couple of layers of
plasterboard. And then a layer of chipboard.

For security I was then thinking of encasing this in some concrete just
to make it heavy and bolt it onto floor/wall or wherever I decide to
locate it.

The door I havent planned yet.

Any thoughts on this or anyone done something similar?

In message , george - dicegeorge
writes
if you cut a hole in the floor
and then dig down
and store things in the earth
with a few layers of brick / chipboard etc above it
then even if the house burns down
it may not get very hot.

Just very wet when Trumpton turn up.



[g]


--
Bill

On 2012-10-05, mogga wrote:

On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 16:30:09 +0100, ss wrote:

Actually more a fireproof box but will be quite interested in making it
as secure as I can. It is mainly for a small amount of cash and say
passports and just a few household documents. I am trying to build
something which in the event of a fire the documents dont go up in

Improve your fire safety in your home.
Have a good smoke alarm fitted. Test it.

That's definitely the most important thing, but it won't help with
documents (which you shouldn't be rummaging around to save when your
house is on fire).

On 2012-10-05, george - dicegeorge wrote:

if you cut a hole in the floor
and then dig down
and store things in the earth
with a few layers of brick / chipboard etc above it
then even if the house burns down
it may not get very hot.

Didn't someone famous bury a cheese during the Great Fire of London,
or is that a myth?

On Friday, 5 October 2012 21:30:04 UTC+1, Adam Funk wrote:

Didn't someone famous bury a cheese during the Great Fire of London,

or is that a myth?

Samuel Pepys, a whole wheel of parmesan

On 2012-10-05, Andy Dingley wrote:

On Friday, 5 October 2012 21:30:04 UTC+1, Adam Funk wrote:

Didn't someone famous bury a cheese during the Great Fire of London,

or is that a myth?

Samuel Pepys, a whole wheel of parmesan

That's the one, thanks.

On 05/10/2012 16:02, george - dicegeorge wrote:
if you cut a hole in the floor
and then dig down
and store things in the earth
with a few layers of brick / chipboard etc above it
then even if the house burns down
it may not get very hot.

[g]
Just remember a few days before you go on holiday, to get the sledge
hammer out and excavate the passports.

On Thursday, October 4, 2012 8:31:39 PM UTC+1, John Williamson wrote:
When you're considering the "too hot" temperature, paper will survive up
to about 200 C depending on the ink used, while most thumb drives will
expire at below 100 C, and magnetic media such as floppies or hard
drives will lose their data at not much more than 60 C. Writeable
optical media are less predictable, and less stable than magnetic ones.

I wonder how well parchment copes.

(Baked clay tablets are probably OK to 1000 C or more, provided you cool them carefully afterwards.)

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 4:48:44 PM UTC+1, Martin Bonner wrote:
On Thursday, October 4, 2012 8:31:39 PM UTC+1, John Williamson wrote:

When you're considering the "too hot" temperature, paper will survive up

to about 200 C depending on the ink used, while most thumb drives will

expire at below 100 C, and magnetic media such as floppies or hard

drives will lose their data at not much more than 60 C. Writeable

optical media are less predictable, and less stable than magnetic ones.



I wonder how well parchment copes.



(Baked clay tablets are probably OK to 1000 C or more, provided you cool them carefully afterwards.)

Where can I buy a 500GB clay tablet? The ones I have (tiles) only hold a few hundred bits.


NT

On Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:30:17 PM UTC+1, ss wrote:
Actually more a fireproof box

Simplest is a safe, then a media safe inside that.
The former provides the brute force resistance and can be fire rated for (say) paper quite cheaply. The latter provides the fire resistance for magnetic media (which is to say it stays far below boiling point of water).

Alternatively, just a media safe will do inside whatever box you want.

The problem is not the fire rating of the materials, that is easy re Class 0, but the temperature rise you get on the inside: getting rid of all that heat. The method used by the cheap fire safe's from Sentry is a gel saturated with water in the lining. When heated that produces copious amounts of steam, using the latent heat of vapourisation to give 30mins or whatever fire protection. The downside is you need to plastic bag everything inside or it goes a bit mushy.

Using substances that do not burn or produce an insulating char is one thing, eg, bentonite, vermiculite etc; getting rid of the heat in an enclosed space is a bit more difficult as the time for protection goes up.

Simplest may be a floor safe right by the front door.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 10:04:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The method used by the cheap fire safe's from Sentry is a gel saturated
with water in the lining. When heated that produces copious amounts of
steam, using the latent heat of vapourisation to give 30mins or
whatever fire protection. The downside is you need to plastic bag
everything inside or it goes a bit mushy.

Interesting. Was in CostCo on Saturday they have the Sentry Firesafe
F2300 for £39.58 inc VAT. I bought one at that price, I've yet to look at
it in detail it will be interesting to see what the destructions say
about any additional protection required for the contents.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 09:33:45 -0700, meow2222 wrote:
(Baked clay tablets are probably OK to 1000 C or more, provided you
cool them carefully afterwards.)

Where can I buy a 500GB clay tablet? The ones I have (tiles) only hold a
few hundred bits.

Don't forget that they're double-sided...

Of course, you can encode multiple states per 'bit' through the use of
symbols - and if they're to be kept in an environment where they won't be
susceptible to wear, you can probably get away with encoding at a few
different depths, too.

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:47:18 -0700, Owain wrote:
If you learn to write in ideographs you can get a lot more useful
information per bit. You will however need a higher resolution stylus.

Yes, every rap mp3 could be represented as a steaming dog turd...

On 10/10/2012 00:56, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:47:18 -0700, Owain wrote:
If you learn to write in ideographs you can get a lot more useful
information per bit. You will however need a higher resolution stylus.

Yes, every rap mp3 could be represented as a steaming dog turd...

How would you represent a steaming dog turd?

--
Rod

On 10/10/12 08:35, polygonum wrote:
On 10/10/2012 00:56, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:47:18 -0700, Owain wrote:
If you learn to write in ideographs you can get a lot more useful
information per bit. You will however need a higher resolution stylus.

Yes, every rap mp3 could be represented as a steaming dog turd...

How would you represent a steaming dog turd?


Unicode Character 'PILE OF POO' (U+1F4A9)


http://www.fileformat.info/info/unic...f4a9/index.htm
http://boingboing.net/2012/02/03/uni...f-poo-cha.html
--
djc

On 10/10/2012 09:26, djc wrote:
On 10/10/12 08:35, polygonum wrote:
On 10/10/2012 00:56, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:47:18 -0700, Owain wrote:
If you learn to write in ideographs you can get a lot more useful
information per bit. You will however need a higher resolution stylus.

Yes, every rap mp3 could be represented as a steaming dog turd...

How would you represent a steaming dog turd?


Unicode Character 'PILE OF POO' (U+1F4A9)


http://www.fileformat.info/info/unic...f4a9/index.htm
http://boingboing.net/2012/02/03/uni...f-poo-cha.html

Thank you. That explains a lot. Though I am not sure about...

--
Rod

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:54:47 AM UTC+1, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 09:33:45 -0700, meow2222 wrote:

(Baked clay tablets are probably OK to 1000 C or more, provided you

cool them carefully afterwards.)



Where can I buy a 500GB clay tablet? The ones I have (tiles) only hold a

few hundred bits.



Don't forget that they're double-sided...



Of course, you can encode multiple states per 'bit' through the use of

symbols - and if they're to be kept in an environment where they won't be

susceptible to wear, you can probably get away with encoding at a few

different depths, too.

Even that lot would be unlikely to get you a megabyte.
'To set to read only, place in a hot coal fire overnight'


NT