I'm considering replacing our existing Worcester Bosch Highflow 400 BF
combi, which is about 12-13 years old. Our neighbour in the other half
of the converted barn reckons he saves 500 quid a year in heating costs
with his new Vaillant boiler (model unknown). Any other boiler
recommendations?


Would it be worthwhile (in terms of cost/benefit) replacing the existing
radiators with something like the Stelrad Radical, which the
manufacturers claim are much more efficient and economical? There are 13
conventional steel radiators of various sizes at the moment.

--
Peter

On 19/09/2012 15:00, Ramsman wrote:
I'm considering replacing our existing Worcester Bosch Highflow 400 BF
combi, which is about 12-13 years old. Our neighbour in the other half
of the converted barn reckons he saves 500 quid a year in heating costs
with his new Vaillant boiler (model unknown). Any other boiler
recommendations?


Would it be worthwhile (in terms of cost/benefit) replacing the existing
radiators with something like the Stelrad Radical, which the
manufacturers claim are much more efficient and economical? There are 13
conventional steel radiators of various sizes at the moment.


Very unlikely! Stelrad's radiators have to obey the same Laws of Physics
as everyone else's!
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

On Sep 19, 5:21*pm, Roger Mills wrote:
On 19/09/2012 15:00, Ramsman wrote:

I'm considering replacing our existing Worcester Bosch Highflow 400 BF
combi, which is about 12-13 years old. Our neighbour in the other half
of the converted barn reckons he saves 500 quid a year in heating costs
with his new Vaillant boiler (model unknown). Any other boiler
recommendations?

Would it be worthwhile (in terms of cost/benefit) replacing the existing
radiators with something like the Stelrad Radical, which the
manufacturers claim are much more efficient and economical? There are 13
conventional steel radiators of various sizes at the moment.

Very unlikely! Stelrad's radiators have to obey the same Laws of Physics
as everyone else's!
True.
However your radiators may be undersized which is bad for condensing
boilers.
Also critical is the control sytem. Stuff like optimum start and
finish and and devices to prevent to frequent starting and stopping of
boiler.

Make sure your boiler is not oversized, this wastes fuel.
If it is modulating then the max. turndown ratio is the best.

Check thermostatic valves are working.
Check radiators are clean inside. (System should be flushed for new
boiler)

On 19/09/2012 17:22, Roger Mills wrote:
On 19/09/2012 15:00, Ramsman wrote:
I'm considering replacing our existing Worcester Bosch Highflow 400 BF
combi, which is about 12-13 years old. Our neighbour in the other half
of the converted barn reckons he saves 500 quid a year in heating costs
with his new Vaillant boiler (model unknown). Any other boiler
recommendations?


Would it be worthwhile (in terms of cost/benefit) replacing the existing
radiators with something like the Stelrad Radical, which the
manufacturers claim are much more efficient and economical? There are 13
conventional steel radiators of various sizes at the moment.


Very unlikely! Stelrad's radiators have to obey the same Laws of Physics
as everyone else's!

Not necessarily unlikely. Stelrad claims that the internal construction
give faster warming up and less heat emission from the wall side.
See http://www.stelrad.com/uk/docs/radical_brochure.pdf

I was hoping somebody might have experience of these rads.
--
Peter

On 19/09/2012 17:38, Ramsman wrote:
On 19/09/2012 17:22, Roger Mills wrote:
On 19/09/2012 15:00, Ramsman wrote:
I'm considering replacing our existing Worcester Bosch Highflow 400 BF
combi, which is about 12-13 years old. Our neighbour in the other half
of the converted barn reckons he saves 500 quid a year in heating costs
with his new Vaillant boiler (model unknown). Any other boiler
recommendations?


Would it be worthwhile (in terms of cost/benefit) replacing the existing
radiators with something like the Stelrad Radical, which the
manufacturers claim are much more efficient and economical? There are 13
conventional steel radiators of various sizes at the moment.


Very unlikely! Stelrad's radiators have to obey the same Laws of Physics
as everyone else's!

Not necessarily unlikely. Stelrad claims that the internal construction
give faster warming up and less heat emission from the wall side.
See http://www.stelrad.com/uk/docs/radical_brochure.pdf

I was hoping somebody might have experience of these rads.

Afraid not, but I find their explanations very vague.

Faster heating up is, I suppose, nice but isn't that determined as much
by the boiler? Surface temperature higher - OK, good, but at the expense
of convection - and I'm not convinced radiation beats convection for
comfort. And those valves look like a breakdown waiting to happen.

And they don't fully explain how they're more efficient - just that they
work differently.

As an aside, I'm living in a place at the moment that has a superb
heating system - quick to warm up etc, but what gets me is the
installation - very neat (flexible plastic pipes routed behind the
skirting so no pipes through the floor, easy carpet cleaning) and
absolutely silent.

Rob

On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 3:00:48 PM UTC+1, Ramsman wrote:
I'm considering replacing our existing Worcester Bosch Highflow 400 BF

combi, which is about 12-13 years old. Our neighbour in the other half

of the converted barn reckons he saves 500 quid a year in heating costs

with his new Vaillant boiler (model unknown). Any other boiler

recommendations?





Would it be worthwhile (in terms of cost/benefit) replacing the existing

radiators with something like the Stelrad Radical, which the

manufacturers claim are much more efficient and economical? There are 13

conventional steel radiators of various sizes at the moment.

I wonder if you could make something a bit like the stelrad by taking an ordinary dual radiator and fitting new in and outlet positions:
inlet centre bottom of front panel
outlet centre bottom of rear panel


NT

On 19/09/2012 17:38, Ramsman wrote:
On 19/09/2012 17:22, Roger Mills wrote:
On 19/09/2012 15:00, Ramsman wrote:
I'm considering replacing our existing Worcester Bosch Highflow 400 BF
combi, which is about 12-13 years old. Our neighbour in the other half
of the converted barn reckons he saves 500 quid a year in heating costs
with his new Vaillant boiler (model unknown). Any other boiler
recommendations?


Would it be worthwhile (in terms of cost/benefit) replacing the existing
radiators with something like the Stelrad Radical, which the
manufacturers claim are much more efficient and economical? There are 13
conventional steel radiators of various sizes at the moment.


Very unlikely! Stelrad's radiators have to obey the same Laws of Physics
as everyone else's!

Not necessarily unlikely. Stelrad claims that the internal construction
give faster warming up and less heat emission from the wall side.
See http://www.stelrad.com/uk/docs/radical_brochure.pdf


Yes, I read that. Looks like snake oil to me! Full of all sorts of wild
assertions and general spin. Obviously written by someone better versed
in marketing speak than in science!

As far as I can see, the only thing different about them is that the
temperature gradient is from front to rear rather than side to side.
This *might* result in a bit less heat going into the wall, and a bit
more radiation going into the room - but you'd have to be sitting
directly in line with it to feel any difference.

If they warm up more quickly, maybe they hold less water? In which case,
they'll also cool down more quickly when the room stat turns the boiler
off. If, by some magic, they provide the same comfort level from
marginally less heat input, I dread to think what the pay-back period
would be if you threw away perfectly good radiators and replaced them
with these - centuries, I would imagine.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

On 19/09/2012 20:47, wrote:


I wonder if you could make something a bit like the stelrad by taking an ordinary dual radiator and fitting new in and outlet positions:
inlet centre bottom of front panel
outlet centre bottom of rear panel


Wouldn't you also need some inter-connection between the panels at the
top. Maybe some double panel rads already do this, but none of mine does.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
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checked.

In article , Roger Mills
writes
On 19/09/2012 17:38, Ramsman wrote:
On 19/09/2012 17:22, Roger Mills wrote:
On 19/09/2012 15:00, Ramsman wrote:

Would it be worthwhile (in terms of cost/benefit) replacing the existing
radiators with something like the Stelrad Radical, which the
manufacturers claim are much more efficient and economical? There are 13
conventional steel radiators of various sizes at the moment.

Very unlikely! Stelrad's radiators have to obey the same Laws of Physics
as everyone else's!

Not necessarily unlikely. Stelrad claims that the internal construction
give faster warming up and less heat emission from the wall side.
See http://www.stelrad.com/uk/docs/radical_brochure.pdf

Yes, I read that. Looks like snake oil to me! Full of all sorts of wild
assertions and general spin. Obviously written by someone better versed
in marketing speak than in science!

You old cynic Rog, you mean you don't think the whole 2.5degC difference
between the front and back panels will make a world of difference :-?

Amazing what you can punt with the use of suppressed zero graphs eh?

Personally I don't want more radiation from my radiators sic [pictures
family huddled round a single bar electric fire], I want warm air
circulating all around the room and that means convection. Heat loss
round the back, tosh, no difference on internal walls and on external
ones, foil on a bit of 5mm insulation will more than compensate.

As far as I can see, the only thing different about them is that the
temperature gradient is from front to rear rather than side to side.
This *might* result in a bit less heat going into the wall, and a bit
more radiation going into the room - but you'd have to be sitting
directly in line with it to feel any difference.

If they warm up more quickly, maybe they hold less water? In which case,
they'll also cool down more quickly when the room stat turns the boiler
off. If, by some magic, they provide the same comfort level from
marginally less heat input, I dread to think what the pay-back period
would be if you threw away perfectly good radiators and replaced them
with these - centuries, I would imagine.

I think it's that water flows from front to back rather than
front-and-back from side to side. Fair enough, that sounds like it will
give faster warmup which will help with those horrible short cycling
chrono-proportional controllers. As I've said many times before, I'd
prefer to have a long slow burn so issues of warmup time are not
significant.

Also a shame that section on balancing is so misleading, it is not, as
they imply, just the size of a radiator that needs accounting for, it is
the distance from the boiler and the number of other loads on that pipe
run.

In summary, I see some positive design aspects and yes it is a radical
departure from conventional thinking on radiator design but I don't see
that much of an advantage over a well designed conventional radiator
system and it is at the cost of proprietary parts which will no doubt be
significantly more expensive than existing multi-sourced technology. It
could offer a more idiot proof installation (how many so called pros
balance a system?) but I'd think carefully before locking myself into
any proprietary system.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Sep 19, 5:38*pm, Ramsman wrote:

Not necessarily unlikely. Stelrad claims that the internal construction
give faster warming up and less heat emission from the wall side.
Seehttp://www.stelrad.com/uk/docs/radical_brochure.pdf

I was hoping somebody might have experience of these rads.
--
Peter

Ramsman,

Don't take any notice of these Doubting Thomases.

I replaced my rads with the ones you linked to, installed argon-filled
triple glazing, ripped out the Kingspan from the loft and replaced
with multi-foil insulation and also bought one of those wind turbines
that B&Q were selling a couple of years ago.

With the money I'll save over the next hundred and fifty years, I'll
have enough to pay for all the courses necessary to become an
Operating Thetan in the Church of Scientology.

Go for it, buddy. You know it makes sense.

On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 9:21:33 PM UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 19/09/2012 20:47, meow2222 wrote:





I wonder if you could make something a bit like the stelrad by taking an ordinary dual radiator and fitting new in and outlet positions:

inlet centre bottom of front panel

outlet centre bottom of rear panel





Wouldn't you also need some inter-connection between the panels at the

top. Maybe some double panel rads already do this, but none of mine does.

Yes


NT

On Sep 19, 10:20*pm, mike wrote:
On Sep 19, 5:38*pm, Ramsman wrote:

Not necessarily unlikely. Stelrad claims that the internal construction
give faster warming up and less heat emission from the wall side.
Seehttp://www.stelrad.com/uk/docs/radical_brochure.pdf

I was hoping somebody might have experience of these rads.
--
Peter

Ramsman,

Don't take any notice of these Doubting Thomases.

I replaced my rads with the ones you linked to, installed argon-filled
triple glazing, ripped out the Kingspan from the loft and replaced
with multi-foil insulation and also bought one of those wind turbines
that B&Q were selling a couple of years ago.

With the money I'll save over the next hundred and fifty years, I'll
have enough to pay for all the courses necessary to become an
Operating Thetan in the Church of Scientology.

Go for it, buddy. *You know it makes sense.

So which of the above was responsible for your savings, (if any)?

On 20/09/2012 06:51, harry wrote:
On Sep 19, 10:20 pm, wrote:

Don't take any notice of these Doubting Thomases.

I replaced my rads with the ones you linked to, installed argon-filled
triple glazing, ripped out the Kingspan from the loft and replaced
with multi-foil insulation and also bought one of those wind turbines
that B&Q were selling a couple of years ago.

With the money I'll save over the next hundred and fifty years, I'll
have enough to pay for all the courses necessary to become an
Operating Thetan in the Church of Scientology.

Go for it, buddy. You know it makes sense.


So which of the above was responsible for your savings, (if any)?


Are you serious?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Thursday, 20 September 2012 12:18:16 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 20/09/2012 06:51, harry wrote:
On Sep 19, 10:20 pm, wrote:

Don't take any notice of these Doubting Thomases.

I replaced my rads with the ones you linked to, installed argon-filled
triple glazing, ripped out the Kingspan from the loft and replaced
with multi-foil insulation and also bought one of those wind turbines
that B&Q were selling a couple of years ago.

With the money I'll save over the next hundred and fifty years, I'll
have enough to pay for all the courses necessary to become an
Operating Thetan in the Church of Scientology.

Go for it, buddy. You know it makes sense.


So which of the above was responsible for your savings, (if any)?


Are you serious?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

I fitted 6 Stelrad Radicals to my house last year - my only advice is avoid! The packaging was so non-existant that I several of them had to be returned due to damage, and new end and top panels supplied. There is a grey plastic knob on one end with +/_ icons, All of these got a battering and these being non obtainable as a spare part, the whole raditor needed to be returned and scrapped, in order to supply me with good examples. Hardly the eco star winner that they claim to be. Now 18 months on, it appears that these rads should have been supplied with a TRV and I am in dispute with Stelrad and Plumb nation over getting them.

Most likely I will have to take the hit, but I shall try to leave as much feedback to warn others.

wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 20 September 2012 12:18:16 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 20/09/2012 06:51, harry wrote:
On Sep 19, 10:20 pm, wrote:

Don't take any notice of these Doubting Thomases.

I replaced my rads with the ones you linked to, installed argon-filled
triple glazing, ripped out the Kingspan from the loft and replaced
with multi-foil insulation and also bought one of those wind turbines
that B&Q were selling a couple of years ago.

With the money I'll save over the next hundred and fifty years, I'll
have enough to pay for all the courses necessary to become an
Operating Thetan in the Church of Scientology.

Go for it, buddy. You know it makes sense.


So which of the above was responsible for your savings, (if any)?


Are you serious?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

I fitted 6 Stelrad Radicals to my house last year - my only advice is avoid!
The packaging was so non-existant that I several of them had to be returned
due to damage, and new end and top panels supplied. There is a grey plastic
knob on one end with +/_ icons, All of these got a battering and these being
non obtainable as a spare part, the whole raditor needed to be returned and
scrapped, in order to supply me with good examples. Hardly the eco star
winner that they claim to be. Now 18 months on, it appears that these rads
should have been supplied with a TRV and I am in dispute with Stelrad and
Plumb nation over getting them.

Most likely I will have to take the hit, but I shall try to leave as much
feedback to warn others.

You mean you never thought of this when you fitted them?????
No great problem to retro fit TRVs anyway.

On Saturday, 29 November 2014 16:27:30 UTC, harry wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 20 September 2012 12:18:16 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 20/09/2012 06:51, harry wrote:
On Sep 19, 10:20 pm, wrote:

Don't take any notice of these Doubting Thomases.

I replaced my rads with the ones you linked to, installed argon-filled
triple glazing, ripped out the Kingspan from the loft and replaced
with multi-foil insulation and also bought one of those wind turbines
that B&Q were selling a couple of years ago.

With the money I'll save over the next hundred and fifty years, I'll
have enough to pay for all the courses necessary to become an
Operating Thetan in the Church of Scientology.

Go for it, buddy. You know it makes sense.


So which of the above was responsible for your savings, (if any)?


Are you serious?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

I fitted 6 Stelrad Radicals to my house last year - my only advice is avoid!
The packaging was so non-existant that I several of them had to be returned
due to damage, and new end and top panels supplied. There is a grey plastic
knob on one end with +/_ icons, All of these got a battering and these being
non obtainable as a spare part, the whole raditor needed to be returned and
scrapped, in order to supply me with good examples. Hardly the eco star
winner that they claim to be. Now 18 months on, it appears that these rads
should have been supplied with a TRV and I am in dispute with Stelrad and
Plumb nation over getting them.

Most likely I will have to take the hit, but I shall try to leave as much
feedback to warn others.

You mean you never thought of this when you fitted them?????
No great problem to retro fit TRVs anyway.

The sales blurb at the time of sales indicated that the TRV was intergral within the radiator. The integral valve has now been highlighted by Stelrad as being the 'Integral Thermostatic valve'. This misunderstanding existed extended up to Stelrad tech support! It is only now that I am using my central heating system again that I recontacted Stelrad to clarify.

On Monday, 1 December 2014 12:14:47 UTC, wrote:
On Saturday, 29 November 2014 16:27:30 UTC, harry wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 20 September 2012 12:18:16 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 20/09/2012 06:51, harry wrote:
On Sep 19, 10:20 pm, wrote:

Don't take any notice of these Doubting Thomases.

I replaced my rads with the ones you linked to, installed argon-filled
triple glazing, ripped out the Kingspan from the loft and replaced
with multi-foil insulation and also bought one of those wind turbines
that B&Q were selling a couple of years ago.

With the money I'll save over the next hundred and fifty years, I'll
have enough to pay for all the courses necessary to become an
Operating Thetan in the Church of Scientology.

Go for it, buddy. You know it makes sense.


So which of the above was responsible for your savings, (if any)?


Are you serious?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

I fitted 6 Stelrad Radicals to my house last year - my only advice is avoid!
The packaging was so non-existant that I several of them had to be returned
due to damage, and new end and top panels supplied. There is a grey plastic
knob on one end with +/_ icons, All of these got a battering and these being
non obtainable as a spare part, the whole raditor needed to be returned and
scrapped, in order to supply me with good examples. Hardly the eco star
winner that they claim to be. Now 18 months on, it appears that these rads
should have been supplied with a TRV and I am in dispute with Stelrad and
Plumb nation over getting them.

Most likely I will have to take the hit, but I shall try to leave as much
feedback to warn others.

You mean you never thought of this when you fitted them?????
No great problem to retro fit TRVs anyway.

The sales blurb at the time of sales indicated that the TRV was intergral within the radiator. The integral valve has now been highlighted by Stelrad as being the 'Integral Thermostatic valve'. This misunderstanding existed extended up to Stelrad tech support! It is only now that I am using my central heating system again that I recontacted Stelrad to clarify

Stelrad have very kindly sent TRV valves for my Radicals. Yes these work, but they make the raditors look very, very ugly. So much so that we have taken the TRV's off again. All in all, I cannot recommend these radiators to anyone. Perhaps they may be of benefit to speedup installion, but with a well insulated property, the boiler will cycle of an on. When off the pump is not running therefore the front panel will be the same temperature as the rear, invaliding Stelrads efficiency claim?

Sorry, like to see progress, but not a well execuded product.

replying to thompsoncraig808, gwernaffield24 wrote:
i have fitted 8 stelrad radical rads it made a bit of sence to use a rad that
had all the valves in the price ,including the TRV, the only problem i had was
when the house was fitted with the central heating system the plumber had put
the feed to the right side of the rads , so when the radical's where fitted
the rear panel got hot first wth the front pannel only heating to the outer
edges , a quick change of the pipe so the flow was on the left hand side , and
they work very well , as for the TRV making the rad ugly it is not that bad i
some what pleased it is on the top side of the rad as i am disbled wheelchair
user , it make the rad's easy to use , the main problem is the cost , and if
you will ever get the price diffrence back from a standard rad with the cost
of the valves and trv added , so i am happy with them so far ,
peter

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/...rs-835254-.htm