The expansion vessel on our hot water circuit (*not* the boiler
expansion vessel!) is supposed to be pressurised to 3.5 bar but is
currently down to just over 2 bar. I'd like to pump it up but I
couldn't get anywhere with a bicycle pump - it could be I'm just not
strong enough.

We've got a perfectly good electric car tyre pump, but the problem is
that it can draw up to 10 amps or so, and I've no suitable source of
'portable' 12 Volt power (and no I'm not going to take the battery out
of the car!).

Any suggestions for how best to tackle this? I'd be happy to buy an
inexpensive 240VAC to 12VDC power supply since it could have other
uses, but I've not found one capable of delivering that kind of
current at a sensible price.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 09:40:05 -0700 (PDT)
Richard Russell wrote:

The expansion vessel on our hot water circuit (*not* the boiler
expansion vessel!) is supposed to be pressurised to 3.5 bar but is
currently down to just over 2 bar. I'd like to pump it up but I
couldn't get anywhere with a bicycle pump - it could be I'm just not
strong enough.

We've got a perfectly good electric car tyre pump, but the problem is
that it can draw up to 10 amps or so, and I've no suitable source of
'portable' 12 Volt power (and no I'm not going to take the battery out
of the car!).

Any suggestions for how best to tackle this? I'd be happy to buy an
inexpensive 240VAC to 12VDC power supply since it could have other
uses, but I've not found one capable of delivering that kind of
current at a sensible price.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

Can you not buy an Air Can, which is just a pressure vessel which is
pumped up with air where it is convenient, and then taken to where it is
needed, and connected to the tank via a hose with a fill valve. These
are sold in American versions of Halfords, but I don't know about here;
but it would do your job.
--
Davey.

In article ,
Richard Russell writes:
The expansion vessel on our hot water circuit (*not* the boiler
expansion vessel!) is supposed to be pressurised to 3.5 bar but is
currently down to just over 2 bar. I'd like to pump it up but I
couldn't get anywhere with a bicycle pump - it could be I'm just not
strong enough.

We've got a perfectly good electric car tyre pump, but the problem is
that it can draw up to 10 amps or so, and I've no suitable source of
'portable' 12 Volt power (and no I'm not going to take the battery out
of the car!).

Any suggestions for how best to tackle this? I'd be happy to buy an
inexpensive 240VAC to 12VDC power supply since it could have other
uses, but I've not found one capable of delivering that kind of
current at a sensible price.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

I have one of those car jumpstarters with a 12V SLA battery and a
tyre pump in it, which would probably work for this. It works
well on the car tyres, but many of the current ones available are
very poor quality and contain fake batteries (much lower capacity
than is marked on them).

This thought has gone through my mind for my own central heating
expansion vessel which is mounted too high up to use a foot pump,
although so far (10 years old), it's never needed pumping up.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Aug 15, 5:47*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
I have one of those car jumpstarters with a 12V SLA battery and a
tyre pump in it, which would probably work for this.

Yes, I considered that, but they seem to be around the GBP 100 mark
which is quite a lot to pay when I have no need for it as a
jumpstarter (we have two cars so if necessary I've always used one to
jumpstart the other).

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:44:16 +0100
Davey wrote:

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 09:40:05 -0700 (PDT)
Richard Russell wrote:

The expansion vessel on our hot water circuit (*not* the boiler
expansion vessel!) is supposed to be pressurised to 3.5 bar but is
currently down to just over 2 bar. I'd like to pump it up but I
couldn't get anywhere with a bicycle pump - it could be I'm just not
strong enough.

We've got a perfectly good electric car tyre pump, but the problem
is that it can draw up to 10 amps or so, and I've no suitable
source of 'portable' 12 Volt power (and no I'm not going to take
the battery out of the car!).

Any suggestions for how best to tackle this? I'd be happy to buy an
inexpensive 240VAC to 12VDC power supply since it could have other
uses, but I've not found one capable of delivering that kind of
current at a sensible price.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

Can you not buy an Air Can, which is just a pressure vessel which is
pumped up with air where it is convenient, and then taken to where it
is needed, and connected to the tank via a hose with a fill valve.
These are sold in American versions of Halfords, but I don't know
about here; but it would do your job.

I didn't find the Air Can, but Halfords offer this:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...egoryId_255241
--
Davey.

Richard Russell wrote:
The expansion vessel on our hot water circuit (*not* the boiler
expansion vessel!) is supposed to be pressurised to 3.5 bar but is
currently down to just over 2 bar. I'd like to pump it up but I
couldn't get anywhere with a bicycle pump - it could be I'm just not
strong enough.

We've got a perfectly good electric car tyre pump, but the problem is
that it can draw up to 10 amps or so, and I've no suitable source of
'portable' 12 Volt power (and no I'm not going to take the battery out
of the car!).

Any suggestions for how best to tackle this? I'd be happy to buy an
inexpensive 240VAC to 12VDC power supply since it could have other
uses, but I've not found one capable of delivering that kind of
current at a sensible price.

Get yourself one of the cheap jump start units from Halfords or Maplin
which either has a compressor built in or (cheaper) just has a cigarette
lighter socket fitted to it. They come in handy for all sorts of
occasions where you need a portable 12V supply with a bit of poke. Some
of the dearer ones even have a smallish 240V inverter built in.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Richard Russell wrote:
On Aug 15, 5:47 pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
I have one of those car jumpstarters with a 12V SLA battery and a
tyre pump in it, which would probably work for this.

Yes, I considered that, but they seem to be around the GBP 100 mark
which is quite a lot to pay when I have no need for it as a
jumpstarter (we have two cars so if necessary I've always used one to
jumpstart the other).

? I paid about forty quid for one with a built-in compressor recently.
I've never used it as jumpstarter, but it's dead handy for testing 12
volt items, and the light comes in sort of handy now and again, as does
the compressor.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 09:40:05 -0700 (PDT), Richard Russell
wrote:


Any suggestions for how best to tackle this? I'd be happy to buy an
inexpensive 240VAC to 12VDC power supply since it could have other
uses, but I've not found one capable of delivering that kind of
current at a sensible price.

Any reasonably sized modern ATX computer power supply should do it,
for example :-
http://www.amazon.co.uk/500-WATT-ATX...d_sim_sbs_ce_1

Failing that a foot pump such as the one below but you will probably
have to find a length of pressure pipe (flexible or copper) to extend
the hose.
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...egoryId_255241

On Aug 15, 6:36*pm, John Williamson
wrote:
? I paid about forty quid for one with a built-in compressor recently.

From where? A quick search doesn't find anything cheaper than about
GBP 75, although I must admit that's not too bad for such a versatile
product. I worry about Andrew's comments on the quality of the
battery though.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

On 15/08/2012 18:57, Richard Russell wrote:
On Aug 15, 6:36 pm, John Williamson
wrote:
? I paid about forty quid for one with a built-in compressor recently.

From where? A quick search doesn't find anything cheaper than about
GBP 75, although I must admit that's not too bad for such a versatile
product. I worry about Andrew's comments on the quality of the
battery though.

I picked up one from Makro a few years back. 12V jump start, light and a
small (150W ish) 240V inverter built in.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 15/08/2012 17:40, Richard Russell wrote:
The expansion vessel on our hot water circuit (*not* the boiler
expansion vessel!) is supposed to be pressurised to 3.5 bar but is
currently down to just over 2 bar. I'd like to pump it up but I
couldn't get anywhere with a bicycle pump - it could be I'm just not
strong enough.

We've got a perfectly good electric car tyre pump, but the problem is
that it can draw up to 10 amps or so, and I've no suitable source of
'portable' 12 Volt power (and no I'm not going to take the battery out
of the car!).

Any suggestions for how best to tackle this? I'd be happy to buy an
inexpensive 240VAC to 12VDC power supply since it could have other
uses, but I've not found one capable of delivering that kind of
current at a sensible price.

TLC have a few at different current ratings... a middle spec one:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SK650661.html

Failing that, get a 12Ah SLA better from CPC and small charger for it.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 5:40:05 PM UTC+1, Richard Russell wrote:
The expansion vessel on our hot water circuit (*not* the boiler

expansion vessel!) is supposed to be pressurised to 3.5 bar but is

currently down to just over 2 bar. I'd like to pump it up but I

couldn't get anywhere with a bicycle pump - it could be I'm just not

strong enough.


It's knackered, buy a new expansion vessel. And the pre-charge pressure is with no water pressure on the other side of the diaphragm.
We've got a perfectly good electric car tyre pump, but the problem is

that it can draw up to 10 amps or so, and I've no suitable source of

'portable' 12 Volt power (and no I'm not going to take the battery out

of the car!).



Any suggestions for how best to tackle this? I'd be happy to buy an

inexpensive 240VAC to 12VDC power supply since it could have other

uses, but I've not found one capable of delivering that kind of

current at a sensible price.



Richard.

http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

Richard Russell wrote:
On Aug 15, 6:36 pm, John Williamson
wrote:
? I paid about forty quid for one with a built-in compressor recently.

From where? A quick search doesn't find anything cheaper than about
GBP 75, although I must admit that's not too bad for such a versatile
product. I worry about Andrew's comments on the quality of the
battery though.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/5-in-1-jump-...pressor-388125

Is the latest version of the one I bought. The inverter costs twenty
quid extra.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/heavy-duty-6...nverter-353865

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Aug 15, 7:36*pm, Onetap wrote:
It's knackered, buy a new expansion vessel. And the pre-charge pressure is with no water pressure on the other side of the diaphragm.

Actually it doesn't seem to make much difference. I shut off the
water and opened taps, and the pressure measured at the valve on the
pressure vessel didn't change by more than a PSI or so.

Why do you think it needs replacing?

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

In article ,
John Williamson writes:
Richard Russell wrote:
On Aug 15, 6:36 pm, John Williamson
wrote:
? I paid about forty quid for one with a built-in compressor recently.

From where? A quick search doesn't find anything cheaper than about
GBP 75, although I must admit that's not too bad for such a versatile
product. I worry about Andrew's comments on the quality of the
battery though.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/5-in-1-jump-...pressor-388125

Is the latest version of the one I bought. The inverter costs twenty
quid extra.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/heavy-duty-6...nverter-353865


They may be fine, but beware...
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...a rter+review

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 15/08/2012 17:40, Richard Russell wrote:
The expansion vessel on our hot water circuit (*not* the boiler
expansion vessel!) is supposed to be pressurised to 3.5 bar but is
currently down to just over 2 bar. I'd like to pump it up but I
couldn't get anywhere with a bicycle pump - it could be I'm just not
strong enough.

We've got a perfectly good electric car tyre pump, but the problem is
that it can draw up to 10 amps or so, and I've no suitable source of
'portable' 12 Volt power (and no I'm not going to take the battery out
of the car!).

Any suggestions for how best to tackle this? I'd be happy to buy an
inexpensive 240VAC to 12VDC power supply since it could have other
uses, but I've not found one capable of delivering that kind of
current at a sensible price.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

You could use your car spare tyre as a reservoir - provided it will
stand about 60 PSI for a short while - and use a hose with a tyre valve
attachment both ends to connect it to your pressure vessel.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 15/08/2012 17:40, Richard Russell wrote:
The expansion vessel on our hot water circuit (*not* the boiler
expansion vessel!) is supposed to be pressurised to 3.5 bar but is
currently down to just over 2 bar. I'd like to pump it up but I
couldn't get anywhere with a bicycle pump - it could be I'm just not
strong enough.

We've got a perfectly good electric car tyre pump, but the problem is
that it can draw up to 10 amps or so, and I've no suitable source of
'portable' 12 Volt power (and no I'm not going to take the battery out
of the car!).

Any suggestions for how best to tackle this? I'd be happy to buy an
inexpensive 240VAC to 12VDC power supply since it could have other
uses, but I've not found one capable of delivering that kind of
current at a sensible price.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

An ordinary bicycle pump should be able to do 4 bar (60 psi) no problem,
if the washer and hose are OK.

On Aug 15, 6:46*pm, Peter Parry wrote:
Any reasonably sized modern ATX computer power supply should do it,
for example :-http://www.amazon.co.uk/500-WATT-ATX-POWER-SUPPLY/dp/7135799313/ref=p...

Personally I would be wary of this. There are things like minimum
loads to consider, so the 3.3V and 5V outputs are likely to need dummy
loads before one can make use of the 12V output. More info he

http://www.instructables.com/id/ATX-...ly-Conversion/

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

On 15/08/2012 23:56, newshound wrote:
On 15/08/2012 17:40, Richard Russell wrote:
The expansion vessel on our hot water circuit (*not* the boiler
expansion vessel!) is supposed to be pressurised to 3.5 bar but is
currently down to just over 2 bar. I'd like to pump it up but I
couldn't get anywhere with a bicycle pump - it could be I'm just not
strong enough.

We've got a perfectly good electric car tyre pump, but the problem is
that it can draw up to 10 amps or so, and I've no suitable source of
'portable' 12 Volt power (and no I'm not going to take the battery out
of the car!).

Any suggestions for how best to tackle this? I'd be happy to buy an
inexpensive 240VAC to 12VDC power supply since it could have other
uses, but I've not found one capable of delivering that kind of
current at a sensible price.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

An ordinary bicycle pump should be able to do 4 bar (60 psi) no problem,
if the washer and hose are OK.

Some of the light weight plastic ones have a hard time getting there
though... there is so much elasticity in the pump that you get to the
point where even a full length stroke can't actually get any further air
into the tyre.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , Richard Russell wrote:
The expansion vessel on our hot water circuit (*not* the boiler
expansion vessel!) is supposed to be pressurised to 3.5 bar but is
currently down to just over 2 bar. I'd like to pump it up but I
couldn't get anywhere with a bicycle pump - it could be I'm just not
strong enough.

Borrow a better bike pump. 3.5 bar is fairly soft for a road bike tyre.

(If the vessel is in a very awkward position, a track/floor pump with a decent
length hose might help, and you might have to brace it against something
other than the floor. You shouldn't have to be very strong though.)

On Aug 15, 11:13*pm, Roger Mills wrote:
You could use your car spare tyre as a reservoir - provided it will
stand about 60 PSI for a short while - and use a hose with a tyre valve
attachment both ends to connect it to your pressure vessel.

I'm not sure that carrying a spare wheel up to the airing cupboard is
an improvement over carrying a car battery there! In any case, if I
had a high-pressure hose that long I could use a footpump. Is such a
hose readily available?

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

On 16/08/2012 15:21, Richard Russell wrote:
On Aug 15, 11:13 pm, Roger wrote:
You could use your car spare tyre as a reservoir - provided it will
stand about 60 PSI for a short while - and use a hose with a tyre valve
attachment both ends to connect it to your pressure vessel.

I'm not sure that carrying a spare wheel up to the airing cupboard is
an improvement over carrying a car battery there! In any case, if I
had a high-pressure hose that long I could use a footpump. Is such a
hose readily available?

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

Is this long enough?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-8-x-50FT...0614%26ps%3D54

--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 02:16:39 -0700 (PDT), Richard Russell
wrote:

On Aug 15, 6:46*pm, Peter Parry wrote:
Any reasonably sized modern ATX computer power supply should do it,
for example :-http://www.amazon.co.uk/500-WATT-ATX-POWER-SUPPLY/dp/7135799313/ref=p...

Personally I would be wary of this. There are things like minimum
loads to consider, so the 3.3V and 5V outputs are likely to need dummy
loads before one can make use of the 12V output.

Most I've tried are happy with a load on the 12V line. If the 5V line
needs something a couple of watts bulb usually suffices and provides a
power on indicator. I've never come across an ATX type PSU that
requires a load on the 3.3V line if either or both of the others are
loaded. Given how easy ATX PSU's are to obtain for nothing they make
very useful PSU's.

I've still got a few 500W server versions purchased for 50p each, one
of which has been running a pump virtually non-stop for 5 years (it
gets switched off to change the pump every 6 months)

On 16/08/2012 22:07, Peter Parry wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 02:16:39 -0700 (PDT), Richard Russell
wrote:

On Aug 15, 6:46 pm, Peter Parry wrote:
Any reasonably sized modern ATX computer power supply should do it,
for example :-http://www.amazon.co.uk/500-WATT-ATX-POWER-SUPPLY/dp/7135799313/ref=p...

Personally I would be wary of this. There are things like minimum
loads to consider, so the 3.3V and 5V outputs are likely to need dummy
loads before one can make use of the 12V output.

Most I've tried are happy with a load on the 12V line. If the 5V line
needs something a couple of watts bulb usually suffices and provides a
power on indicator. I've never come across an ATX type PSU that
requires a load on the 3.3V line if either or both of the others are
loaded. Given how easy ATX PSU's are to obtain for nothing they make
very useful PSU's.

I've still got a few 500W server versions purchased for 50p each, one
of which has been running a pump virtually non-stop for 5 years (it
gets switched off to change the pump every 6 months)

I seem to recall that when I replaced my PC's PSU it had about 20
connectors on it and at least one voltage was not used at all.

In article ,
Peter Parry writes:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 02:16:39 -0700 (PDT), Richard Russell
wrote:

On Aug 15, 6:46*pm, Peter Parry wrote:
Any reasonably sized modern ATX computer power supply should do it,
for example :-http://www.amazon.co.uk/500-WATT-ATX-POWER-SUPPLY/dp/7135799313/ref=p...

Personally I would be wary of this. There are things like minimum
loads to consider, so the 3.3V and 5V outputs are likely to need dummy
loads before one can make use of the 12V output.

Most I've tried are happy with a load on the 12V line. If the 5V line
needs something a couple of watts bulb usually suffices and provides a
power on indicator. I've never come across an ATX type PSU that
requires a load on the 3.3V line if either or both of the others are
loaded. Given how easy ATX PSU's are to obtain for nothing they make
very useful PSU's.

That's probably fine for what you're doing.
I have come across a situation where a company was using PC
PSU's just for powering disk drives, and there was a problem
with lack of regulation of the 12V rail unless you drew more
current from the 5V rail than the disks alone did. Once the
problem had been identified, they tried several other PSU
makes, and they were all the same.

This was a long time ago, and may well not be the case with
current PC PSUs.

I've still got a few 500W server versions purchased for 50p each, one
of which has been running a pump virtually non-stop for 5 years (it
gets switched off to change the pump every 6 months)


--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 5:40:05 PM UTC+1, Richard Russell wrote:
I'd like to pump it up but I couldn't get anywhere with a bicycle pump - it
could be I'm just not strong enough.

You just need a better pump. I can certainly recommend the following for £20:

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/...-pump-ec008558

It'll handle your 3.5 bar without any huffing and pumping (11 bar is its max IIRC).

Not only does it pump bike tyres up with ease (as you'd hope and expect) but when my car tyre foot pump died I gave it a go but didn't expect it to function all that great assuming the volume would demand a lot of pumping. It turned out to be excellent and pumped the tyre up in a fraction of the time and effort my foot pump took.

Mathew

We've got a perfectly good electric car tyre pump, but the problem is
that it can draw up to 10 amps or so, and I've no suitable source of
'portable' 12 Volt power (and no I'm not going to take the battery out
of the car!).

I don't know the distance involved, but I use a £20 car tyre pumper
upper on the end of a thirty foot length of 0.75mm csa mains flex and
although there is obviously significant voltage drop all it does is slow
the pump a bit, which doesn't matter. If you're running it from the car
you could run the engine to lift the volts a bit.

I suppose you could have a really long cable if you used 2.5 T & E or
something similar.

Bill