Okay, this is not *my* DIY, but I would like to just be knowledgeable enough to argue the case with the roofer - if it comes to that. I'd be grateful for any of the usual sage-like advice of this group :-)

I got my chimney rebuilt last year, which included lead flashing. I noticed a year later that some of the flashing has slipped. Here are some photos of the result:

http://i.imgur.com/mz5zg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ym4LN.jpg

My guess is that the mortar used to hold the flashing in, was not thick enough, or not mixed right, and/or the lead not pushed deep enough into the chimney brickwork. Can you tell from the photos what the likely cause is?

We have had some pretty string winds here this year, but I was expecting this flashing to stay put for many years yet.

-- Jason

On Jul 24, 11:11*am, Jason Judge wrote:
Okay, this is not *my* DIY, but I would like to just be knowledgeable enough to argue the case with the roofer - if it comes to that. I'd be grateful for any of the usual sage-like advice of this group :-)

I got my chimney rebuilt last year, which included lead flashing. I noticed a year later that some of the flashing has slipped. Here are some photos of the result:

http://i.imgur.com/mz5zg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ym4LN.jpg

My guess is that the mortar used to hold the flashing in, was not thick enough, or not mixed right, and/or the lead not pushed deep enough into the chimney brickwork. Can you tell from the photos what the likely cause is?

We have had some pretty string winds here this year, but I was expecting this flashing to stay put for many years yet.

-- Jason

As I understand it, apart from the mortar, the flashing should have
been wedged in place with small rolls of lead.

Jonathan

On Tuesday, 24 July 2012 11:21:27 UTC+1, Jonathan wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:11*am, Jason Judge > wrote:
> Okay, this is not *my* DIY, but I would like to just be knowledgeable enough to argue the case with the roofer - if it comes to that. I'd be grateful for any of the usual sage-like advice of this group :-)
>
> I got my chimney rebuilt last year, which included lead flashing. I noticed a year later that some of the flashing has slipped. Here are some photos of the result:
>
> http://i.imgur.com/mz5zg.jpg
>
> http://i.imgur.com/Ym4LN.jpg
>
> My guess is that the mortar used to hold the flashing in, was not thick enough, or not mixed right, and/or the lead not pushed deep enough into the chimney brickwork. Can you tell from the photos what the likely cause is?
>
> We have had some pretty string winds here this year, but I was expecting this flashing to stay put for many years yet.
>
> -- Jason

As I understand it, apart from the mortar, the flashing should have
been wedged in place with small rolls of lead.

Jonathan

Ah, thanks. That makes sense. I'll look around the ground to see if any lead has fallen out (and is not stuck in the guttering). I just want as much evidence as I can to find out what went wrong, and hopefully some requirements to pass on when it gets repaired, such as, "I wanna lead-wedge".

-- Jason

Jason Judge wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2012 11:21:27 UTC+1, Jonathan wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:11 am, Jason Judge > wrote:
> Okay, this is not *my* DIY, but I would like to just be knowledgeable enough to argue the case with the roofer - if it comes to that. I'd be grateful for any of the usual sage-like advice of this group :-)
>
> I got my chimney rebuilt last year, which included lead flashing. I noticed a year later that some of the flashing has slipped. Here are some photos of the result:
>
> http://i.imgur.com/mz5zg.jpg
>
> http://i.imgur.com/Ym4LN.jpg
>
> My guess is that the mortar used to hold the flashing in, was not thick enough, or not mixed right, and/or the lead not pushed deep enough into the chimney brickwork. Can you tell from the photos what the likely cause is?
>
> We have had some pretty string winds here this year, but I was expecting this flashing to stay put for many years yet.
>
> -- Jason

As I understand it, apart from the mortar, the flashing should have
been wedged in place with small rolls of lead.

Jonathan

Ah, thanks. That makes sense. I'll look around the ground to see if any lead has fallen out (and is not stuck in the guttering). I just want as much evidence as I can to find out what went wrong, and hopefully some requirements to pass on when it gets repaired, such as, "I wanna lead-wedge".

-- Jason

That is just bad workmanship - get him back in to fix it properly - with
out any bill!
You should be expecting 10s of years service from flashing.

In article ,
Jason Judge writes:
Okay, this is not *my* DIY, but I would like to just be knowledgeable enough to argue the case with the roofer - if it comes to that. I'd be grateful for any of the usual sage-like advice of this group :-)

I got my chimney rebuilt last year, which included lead flashing. I noticed a year later that some of the flashing has slipped. Here are some photos of the result:

http://i.imgur.com/mz5zg.jpg

Leadwork wasn't dressed into the brickwork.
Person doing it didn't know what they were doing, and looks to
have tried to stick the lead to the brick faces with mortar.

http://i.imgur.com/Ym4LN.jpg

What poor quality pointing.
Did you lend him your butter knife, or did he use his thumb?

My guess is that the mortar used to hold the flashing in, was not thick enough, or not mixed right, and/or the lead not pushed deep enough into the chimney brickwork. Can you tell from the photos what the likely cause is?

Person who did it didn't have a clue what they were doing.
It was bound to fail.

We have had some pretty string winds here this year, but I was expecting this flashing to stay put for many years yet.

Should last for 70 years, with perhaps one or two maintenance
visits during that period.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article , Jason
Judge wrote:
Okay, this is not *my* DIY, but I would like to just be knowledgeable
enough to argue the case with the roofer - if it comes to that. I'd be
grateful for any of the usual sage-like advice of this group :-)

I got my chimney rebuilt last year, which included lead flashing. I
noticed a year later that some of the flashing has slipped. Here are
some photos of the result:

http://i.imgur.com/mz5zg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ym4LN.jpg

My guess is that the mortar used to hold the flashing in, was not thick
enough, or not mixed right, and/or the lead not pushed deep enough into
the chimney brickwork. Can you tell from the photos what the likely
cause is?

It looks like it didn't go into the bricks at all.

There are two ways of doing it - stepped flashing where you cut the lead
to match existing mortar courses. This is raked out to a depth of about 1"
and the lead folded into the recess. Held in place with lead 'wedges' -
then the pointing made good. Other way is to cut a groove across the
bricks with an angle grinder.

The former is the traditional way and needs more skill. And more lead. But
modern power tools make the latter way easier. Either will be find and
last near forever if properly done. Which yours doesn't look like it was.

--
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Jason Judge writes:
Okay, this is not *my* DIY, but I would like to just be
knowledgeable enough to argue the case with the roofer - if it comes
to that. I'd be grateful for any of the usual sage-like advice of
this group :-)

I got my chimney rebuilt last year, which included lead flashing. I
noticed a year later that some of the flashing has slipped. Here are
some photos of the result:

http://i.imgur.com/mz5zg.jpg

Leadwork wasn't dressed into the brickwork.
Person doing it didn't know what they were doing, and looks to
have tried to stick the lead to the brick faces with mortar.

http://i.imgur.com/Ym4LN.jpg

What poor quality pointing.
Did you lend him your butter knife, or did he use his thumb?

My guess is that the mortar used to hold the flashing in, was not
thick enough, or not mixed right, and/or the lead not pushed deep
enough into the chimney brickwork. Can you tell from the photos what
the likely cause is?

Person who did it didn't have a clue what they were doing.
It was bound to fail.

We have had some pretty string winds here this year, but I was
expecting this flashing to stay put for many years yet.

Should last for 70 years, with perhaps one or two maintenance
visits during that period.

+1, except I think he's pointed it using either a spoon or a catapult.

On a rebuild, the lead should have gone in at least 40mm, this looks like
he's raked 10mm out with his spoon and just pointed the lead in afterwards

On Tuesday, 24 July 2012 11:11:36 UTC+1, Jason Judge wrote:
Okay, this is not *my* DIY, but I would like to just be knowledgeable enough to argue the case with the roofer - if it comes to that. I'd be grateful for any of the usual sage-like advice of this group :-)

I got my chimney rebuilt last year, which included lead flashing. I noticed a year later that some of the flashing has slipped. Here are some photos of the result:

http://i.imgur.com/mz5zg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ym4LN.jpg

My guess is that the mortar used to hold the flashing in, was not thick enough, or not mixed right, and/or the lead not pushed deep enough into the chimney brickwork. Can you tell from the photos what the likely cause is?

We have had some pretty string winds here this year, but I was expecting this flashing to stay put for many years yet.

-- Jason

Thanks for you help, everyone. I suspect I'm going to have to get a report written up, and the rest of the flashing inspected. No-one taking short-cuts like that is going to own up to it without a fight. I paid for a job to be done, and it looks like it wasn't done.

-- Jason

Jason Judge wrote:
Thanks for you help, everyone. I suspect I'm going to have to get a
report written up, and the rest of the flashing inspected. No-one
taking short-cuts like that is going to own up to it without a fight.
I paid for a job to be done, and it looks like it wasn't done.

Not really, it's a 15 minute job, with zero cash layout to rectify, if you
just ask him in a reasonable manner, he'll probably turn up and sort it
out....he's hardly likely to put up any kind of 'fight' as it will cost him
nothing to put right.
Don't waste money getting 'a report written up', you've had several written
up for you, here, and free of charge.

In article ,
Phil L wrote:
Jason Judge wrote:
Thanks for you help, everyone. I suspect I'm going to have to get a
report written up, and the rest of the flashing inspected. No-one
taking short-cuts like that is going to own up to it without a fight.
I paid for a job to be done, and it looks like it wasn't done.

Not really, it's a 15 minute job, with zero cash layout to rectify, if
you just ask him in a reasonable manner, he'll probably turn up and
sort it out....he's hardly likely to put up any kind of 'fight' as it
will cost him nothing to put right. Don't waste money getting 'a report
written up', you've had several written up for you, here, and free of
charge.

Looking at the pics I'd say the folded in part isn't long enough. I reckon
on at least an inch - others have said near twice that.
Lead expands and contracts a lot on a roof so needs to be well secured.

--
*I'm planning to be spontaneous tomorrow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Looking at the pics I'd say the folded in part isn't long enough. I
reckon on at least an inch - others have said near twice that.
Lead expands and contracts a lot on a roof so needs to be well
secured.

Yep, the two foot piece needs taking out, folding at 40mm, then wedging and
pointing in, no big deal and the piece is overlapped onto the tiles a good
150mm so he can sacrifice a bit of that for the fold.

On 24/07/12 15:45, Jason Judge wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2012 11:11:36 UTC+1, Jason Judge wrote:
Okay, this is not *my* DIY, but I would like to just be knowledgeable enough to argue the case with the roofer - if it comes to that. I'd be grateful for any of the usual sage-like advice of this group :-)

I got my chimney rebuilt last year, which included lead flashing. I noticed a year later that some of the flashing has slipped. Here are some photos of the result:

http://i.imgur.com/mz5zg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ym4LN.jpg

My guess is that the mortar used to hold the flashing in, was not thick enough, or not mixed right, and/or the lead not pushed deep enough into the chimney brickwork. Can you tell from the photos what the likely cause is?

We have had some pretty string winds here this year, but I was expecting this flashing to stay put for many years yet.

-- Jason

Thanks for you help, everyone. I suspect I'm going to have to get a report written up, and the rest of the flashing inspected. No-one taking short-cuts like that is going to own up to it without a fight. I paid for a job to be done, and it looks like it wasn't done.

-- Jason

wouldnt that be throwing good money after bad?
The chap wasnt a roofer.
Damp getting in could do loads of damage to the wood etc underneath,
i'd get in a proper roofer or do it myself.

There are videos on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2pq4VPZE0E

And there's tubes of stuff on sale at my local rooopfers
which can be used instead of mortar.

But new lead may need to be cut with bigger flaps.

[george]

On Tuesday, 24 July 2012 20:43:04 UTC+1, wrote:
On 24/07/12 15:45, Jason Judge wrote:

On Tuesday, 24 July 2012 11:11:36 UTC+1, Jason Judge wrote:

Okay, this is not *my* DIY, but I would like to just be knowledgeable enough to argue the case with the roofer - if it comes to that. I'd be grateful for any of the usual sage-like advice of this group :-)



I got my chimney rebuilt last year, which included lead flashing. I noticed a year later that some of the flashing has slipped. Here are some photos of the result:



http://i.imgur.com/mz5zg.jpg



http://i.imgur.com/Ym4LN.jpg



My guess is that the mortar used to hold the flashing in, was not thick enough, or not mixed right, and/or the lead not pushed deep enough into the chimney brickwork. Can you tell from the photos what the likely cause is?



We have had some pretty string winds here this year, but I was expecting this flashing to stay put for many years yet.



-- Jason



Thanks for you help, everyone. I suspect I'm going to have to get a report written up, and the rest of the flashing inspected. No-one taking short-cuts like that is going to own up to it without a fight. I paid for a job to be done, and it looks like it wasn't done.



-- Jason



wouldnt that be throwing good money after bad?

The chap wasnt a roofer.

Damp getting in could do loads of damage to the wood etc underneath,

i'd get in a proper roofer or do it myself.



There are videos on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2pq4VPZE0E



And there's tubes of stuff on sale at my local rooopfers

which can be used instead of mortar.



But new lead may need to be cut with bigger flaps.



[george]

The roofer is due to come around some point this week to take a look. I am now armed with knowledge on how this should be done, so can push for a proper job. Whether he does it, or someone else does it, I have already paid and do not intend to throw any more money at it.

I did my own lead flashing on a sloping offshoot nearly twenty years ago, and that is still holding out well. It took me ages, and could probably do a much better and quicker job now, but if I can do it, then a professional has no excuse. That was a low roof, and not thirty foot up an end-terrace, so I had more of a choice on whether to do it myself that time.

Thanks again, everyone, for your help.

-- Jason

On Tuesday, 24 July 2012 12:25:20 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/Ym4LN.jpg

What poor quality pointing.

+1

Did you lend him your butter knife, or did he use his thumb?

Couldn't have used his thumb - that would have given a decent finish. My guess is that he had his three-year old up the scaffold with him.

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 4:41:00 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

Phil L wrote:

Jason Judge wrote:

Thanks for you help, everyone. I suspect I'm going to have to get a

report written up, and the rest of the flashing inspected. No-one

taking short-cuts like that is going to own up to it without a fight.

I paid for a job to be done, and it looks like it wasn't done.



Not really, it's a 15 minute job, with zero cash layout to rectify, if

you just ask him in a reasonable manner, he'll probably turn up and

sort it out....he's hardly likely to put up any kind of 'fight' as it

will cost him nothing to put right. Don't waste money getting 'a report

written up', you've had several written up for you, here, and free of

charge.



Looking at the pics I'd say the folded in part isn't long enough. I reckon

on at least an inch - others have said near twice that.


I always do an inch. The 40mm mentioned seems rather excessive to me - you don't want to reduce the bond strength too much on a chimney with a limited amount of weight above and exposed to the wind.
Simon.