Hi,

I'm planning to re-model my kitchen and utility room and want to create a shower room in the utility area.

I'm inclined to make this an electric shower on the grounds that it gives an alternative if the house hot water is down or low for any reason, and it might be simpler to install.

On the wiring front, I might be able to pick up the redundant cooker feed (which is near by), which I need to re-provide for the new cooker location in the kitchen.

Does this sound sensible so far? What are the main criteria on choice of electric shower models - the higher the power the better might be one? And has anyone got positive or negative recommendations?

Cheers.

Chris S wrote:
Hi,

I'm planning to re-model my kitchen and utility room and want to
create a shower room in the utility area.

I'm inclined to make this an electric shower on the grounds that it
gives an alternative if the house hot water is down or low for any
reason, and it might be simpler to install.

On the wiring front, I might be able to pick up the redundant cooker
feed (which is near by), which I need to re-provide for the new
cooker location in the kitchen.

Does this sound sensible so far? What are the main criteria on choice
of electric shower models - the higher the power the better might be
one? And has anyone got positive or negative recommendations?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...lectric_shower

--
Adam

Chris S writes:

Does this sound sensible so far? What are the main criteria on choice
of electric shower models - the higher the power the better might be
one? And has anyone got positive or negative recommendations?

There are or were 10.8 KW showers, which I would buy if fitting a new
shower. 45 amps at 240 volts.

The 8.5 KW units don't perform well in a cold winter when the incoming
water temperature is low.

That will depend in part on the source of the water, but here in
Edinburgh the water from the reservoirs slowly cools as winter
advances, until you have to reduce the shower's flow rate quite
considerably in order to get an acceptable water temperature.
Which is unacceptable in a different way if the shower area isn't well
heated.

I don't know how accurate the power ratings may be; a 7.2 KW
shower installed when my mother was alive seems to cope better than a
newer 8.5 KW unit.

If it were me I would want 10mm. cable to reduce power loss on a long
cable run (in winter I want all the heat I can get), and you'd probably
need that anyway to carry 45 amps.


--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ O n e t e l . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

On 11/07/2012 11:05, Windmill wrote:
Chris S writes:

Does this sound sensible so far? What are the main criteria on choice
of electric shower models - the higher the power the better might be
one? And has anyone got positive or negative recommendations?

There are or were 10.8 KW showers, which I would buy if fitting a new
shower. 45 amps at 240 volts.

The 8.5 KW units don't perform well in a cold winter when the incoming
water temperature is low.

That will depend in part on the source of the water, but here in
Edinburgh the water from the reservoirs slowly cools as winter
advances, until you have to reduce the shower's flow rate quite
considerably in order to get an acceptable water temperature.
Which is unacceptable in a different way if the shower area isn't well
heated.

I don't know how accurate the power ratings may be; a 7.2 KW
shower installed when my mother was alive seems to cope better than a
newer 8.5 KW unit.

If it were me I would want 10mm. cable to reduce power loss on a long
cable run (in winter I want all the heat I can get), and you'd probably
need that anyway to carry 45 amps.


Suffering a similar problem, it's occurred to me that coiling the cold
water feed around the shower drain would be the smart (& inexpensive)
thing to do.

Phil writes:

On 11/07/2012 11:05, Windmill wrote:
Chris S writes:

Does this sound sensible so far? What are the main criteria on choice
of electric shower models - the higher the power the better might be
one? And has anyone got positive or negative recommendations?

There are or were 10.8 KW showers, which I would buy if fitting a new
shower. 45 amps at 240 volts.

The 8.5 KW units don't perform well in a cold winter when the incoming
water temperature is low.

That will depend in part on the source of the water, but here in
Edinburgh the water from the reservoirs slowly cools as winter
advances, until you have to reduce the shower's flow rate quite
considerably in order to get an acceptable water temperature.
Which is unacceptable in a different way if the shower area isn't well
heated.

I don't know how accurate the power ratings may be; a 7.2 KW
shower installed when my mother was alive seems to cope better than a
newer 8.5 KW unit.

If it were me I would want 10mm. cable to reduce power loss on a long
cable run (in winter I want all the heat I can get), and you'd probably
need that anyway to carry 45 amps.


Suffering a similar problem, it's occurred to me that coiling the cold
water feed around the shower drain would be the smart (& inexpensive)
thing to do.

Indeed. A clever idea. I wonder if someone might manufacture a good
heat exchanger like this.


--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ O n e t e l . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

In article , Windmill wrote:
Phil writes:

Suffering a similar problem, it's occurred to me that coiling the cold
water feed around the shower drain would be the smart (& inexpensive)
thing to do.

Indeed. A clever idea. I wonder if someone might manufacture a good
heat exchanger like this.

They do, but getting a reasonable amount of heat transfer in something that
won't clog up needs a fair amount of space to fit, and they aren't inexpensive.

A few turns of copper pipe around a plastic drain pipe might be cheap,
but I doubt you'll be able to measure the heat transfer.

http://shower-save.com/
http://www.retherm.com/HowItWorks.htm
http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom.../mytopic=13040
http://www.ecodrain.ca/en/how-does-it-work

(Alan Braggins) writes:

In article , Windmill wrote:
Phil writes:

Suffering a similar problem, it's occurred to me that coiling the cold
water feed around the shower drain would be the smart (& inexpensive)
thing to do.

Indeed. A clever idea. I wonder if someone might manufacture a good
heat exchanger like this.

They do, but getting a reasonable amount of heat transfer in something that
won't clog up needs a fair amount of space to fit, and they aren't inexpensive.

A few turns of copper pipe around a plastic drain pipe might be cheap,
but I doubt you'll be able to measure the heat transfer.

Close to zero. But a metal bottle trap might work; you only need to
transfer a little heat to allow an improved flow rate.
It could be all of a piece with the drain fitting in the shower tray
or bath.
I suppose copper might corrode, and stainless is usually a poor
conductor (unless there's some special alloy?).
Brass might be good.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ O n e t e l . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

Windmill wrote:

(Alan Braggins) writes:

In article , Windmill wrote:
Phil writes:

Suffering a similar problem, it's occurred to me that coiling the cold
water feed around the shower drain would be the smart (& inexpensive)
thing to do.

Indeed. A clever idea. I wonder if someone might manufacture a good
heat exchanger like this.

They do, but getting a reasonable amount of heat transfer in something
that won't clog up needs a fair amount of space to fit, and they aren't
inexpensive.

A few turns of copper pipe around a plastic drain pipe might be cheap,
but I doubt you'll be able to measure the heat transfer.

Close to zero. But a metal bottle trap might work; you only need to
transfer a little heat to allow an improved flow rate.
It could be all of a piece with the drain fitting in the shower tray
or bath.
I suppose copper might corrode, and stainless is usually a poor
conductor (unless there's some special alloy?).
Brass might be good.


Thought this had been done by someone here a year or 3 ago?

If it were me, I would take 1m large bore copper pipe that would fit a
universal drain coupling, then wind 4 bits of copper microbore around it in
parallel helixes[1], 4-1 manifold at both ends (inline manifold, basically
lump of brass with 22mm in and 4 microbore holes on the other end.

Solder microbore to large bore pipe and run cold water in next to the drain
outflow.

[1] or thinking about it - if the drain outflow is such that all you'd be
expecting is a stream of water along the bottom of the drain pipe, perhaps
just run the 4 bits of microbore in parallel along the bottom of the drain
and solder in.

1m is a guess but with good thermal contact it should move a fair bit of
heat and the drain part remains smooth and no more liable to block than any
other drain.

--
Tim Watts