|
Talking of fuel.
I was in B&Q the other day and I came across (4litre in small print
ha ha) plastic cans of paraffin. I suddenly thought aha, one could use that to eke out the diesel? But when I divided the cost by four is was the same price as diesel. So, as we all know, the cost of diesel (road fuel) is mostly tax, they must be making a hell of a profit on this paraffin. It was in the gardening bit for greenhouse heaters BTW. |
Talking of fuel.
In message , Tim
Streater writes In article , harry wrote: I was in B&Q the other day and I came across (4litre in small print ha ha) plastic cans of paraffin. I suddenly thought aha, one could use that to eke out the diesel? But when I divided the cost by four is was the same price as diesel. So, as we all know, the cost of diesel (road fuel) is mostly tax, they must be making a hell of a profit on this paraffin. It was in the gardening bit for greenhouse heaters BTW. Required for garden weed control flame wands as well. Turnover will be (comparatively) low for that stuff. I'm looking forward to the time when agricultural diesel is permitted in *on road* vehicles:-) regards -- Tim Lamb |
Talking of fuel.
On 05/04/2012 08:04, harry wrote:
I was in B&Q the other day and I came across (4litre in small print ha ha) plastic cans of paraffin. I suddenly thought aha, one could use that to eke out the diesel? But when I divided the cost by four is was the same price as diesel. So, as we all know, the cost of diesel (road fuel) is mostly tax, they must be making a hell of a profit on this paraffin. It was in the gardening bit for greenhouse heaters BTW. Filling stations make more profit on what people buy in the shop than on the fuel they buy. It also doesn't come in a container, which has to be paid for, nor does it occupy retail shelf space, which, in any large store, has to achieve a certain income per metre run and products that don't are simply not sold. Colin Bignell |
Talking of fuel.
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message ... In message , Tim Streater writes In article , harry wrote: I was in B&Q the other day and I came across (4litre in small print ha ha) plastic cans of paraffin. I suddenly thought aha, one could use that to eke out the diesel? But when I divided the cost by four is was the same price as diesel. So, as we all know, the cost of diesel (road fuel) is mostly tax, they must be making a hell of a profit on this paraffin. It was in the gardening bit for greenhouse heaters BTW. Required for garden weed control flame wands as well. Turnover will be (comparatively) low for that stuff. I'm looking forward to the time when agricultural diesel is permitted in *on road* vehicles:-) I know a couple of people thinks it is. |
Talking of fuel.
On Thu, 5 Apr 2012 09:50:35 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:
I'm looking forward to the time when agricultural diesel is permitted in *on road* vehicles:-) Well you know when that will happen don't you? When the rebated duty has risen to the same level as the road duty. -- Cheers Dave. |
Talking of fuel.
harry wrote:
I was in B&Q the other day and I came across (4litre in small print ha ha) plastic cans of paraffin. I suddenly thought aha, one could use that to eke out the diesel? But when I divided the cost by four is was the same price as diesel. I'm sure there must be some kind of law of economics here, that anything that can be put in a car always ends up the same price as diesel. It happened with cooking oil... it used to be 50p/litre until people caught on about using it for fuel, now it's 1.40ish a litre. Theo |
Talking of fuel.
On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 09:57:39 +0100, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/04/2012 08:04, harry wrote: I was in B&Q the other day and I came across (4litre in small print ha ha) plastic cans of paraffin. I suddenly thought aha, one could use that to eke out the diesel? But when I divided the cost by four is was the same price as diesel. So, as we all know, the cost of diesel (road fuel) is mostly tax, they must be making a hell of a profit on this paraffin. It was in the gardening bit for greenhouse heaters BTW. Filling stations make more profit on what people buy in the shop than on the fuel they buy. Which is why self-service pay-at-pump is rare outside the big supermarkets (where it'sa godsend). |
Talking of fuel.
"harryagain" wrote in message ... I'm looking forward to the time when agricultural diesel is permitted in *on road* vehicles:-) I know a couple of people thinks it is. It probably can be legal if you pay the correct tax. How you then remove the markers is a bit more problematic. |
Talking of fuel.
"Theo Markettos" wrote in message ... harry wrote: I was in B&Q the other day and I came across (4litre in small print ha ha) plastic cans of paraffin. I suddenly thought aha, one could use that to eke out the diesel? But when I divided the cost by four is was the same price as diesel. I'm sure there must be some kind of law of economics here, that anything that can be put in a car always ends up the same price as diesel. It happened with cooking oil... it used to be 50p/litre until people caught on about using it for fuel, now it's 1.40ish a litre. And there is no duty on that so someone really is profiteering. Theo |
Talking of fuel.
dennis@home wrote:
"Theo Markettos" wrote in message ... I'm sure there must be some kind of law of economics here, that anything that can be put in a car always ends up the same price as diesel. It happened with cooking oil... it used to be 50p/litre until people caught on about using it for fuel, now it's 1.40ish a litre. And there is no duty on that so someone really is profiteering. Supply and demand. At 50p a litre, Tesco's stocks would be gone in a flash. The same goes for producers and wholesalers. They can't grow it any faster, so the price goes up. At 1.50 a litre there's no point using it as fuel, and so there's some left on the shelf to fry our chips instead. Theo |
Talking of fuel.
Theo Markettos wrote
dennis@home wrote Theo Markettos wrote I'm sure there must be some kind of law of economics here, that anything that can be put in a car always ends up the same price as diesel. It happened with cooking oil... it used to be 50p/litre until people caught on about using it for fuel, now it's 1.40ish a litre. And there is no duty on that so someone really is profiteering. Supply and demand. At 50p a litre, Tesco's stocks would be gone in a flash. The same goes for producers and wholesalers. They can't grow it any faster, They can however grow a lot more of it. so the price goes up. At 1.50 a litre there's no point using it as fuel, and so there's some left on the shelf to fry our chips instead. Doesnt explain why that hasnt happened to the price world wide. |
Talking of fuel.
In message , Rod Speed
writes Theo Markettos wrote dennis@home wrote Theo Markettos wrote I'm sure there must be some kind of law of economics here, that anything that can be put in a car always ends up the same price as diesel. It happened with cooking oil... it used to be 50p/litre until people caught on about using it for fuel, now it's 1.40ish a litre. And there is no duty on that so someone really is profiteering. Supply and demand. At 50p a litre, Tesco's stocks would be gone in a flash. The same goes for producers and wholesalers. They can't grow it any faster, They can however grow a lot more of it. Not really. You either displace some other saleable crop or knock down more rain forest. Oil seed rape is probably only grown once in a five year rotation. so the price goes up. At 1.50 a litre there's no point using it as fuel, and so there's some left on the shelf to fry our chips instead. Doesnt explain why that hasnt happened to the price world wide. Not everybody charges what we do for fuel. regards -- Tim Lamb |
Talking of fuel.
Tim Lamb wrote
Rod Speed wrote Theo Markettos wrote dennis@home wrote Theo Markettos wrote I'm sure there must be some kind of law of economics here, that anything that can be put in a car always ends up the same price as diesel. It happened with cooking oil... it used to be 50p/litre until people caught on about using it for fuel, now it's 1.40ish a litre. And there is no duty on that so someone really is profiteering. Supply and demand. At 50p a litre, Tesco's stocks would be gone in a flash. The same goes for producers and wholesalers. They can't grow it any faster, They can however grow a lot more of it. Not really. Yes, really. You either displace some other saleable crop They must have been making money on it when it was sold at 50p a liter or they wouldnt have bothered growing it. or knock down more rain forest. Doesnt happen in the first world. Oil seed rape is probably only grown once in a five year rotation. There is a lot more than just that thats used to grow oil. so the price goes up. At 1.50 a litre there's no point using it as fuel, and so there's some left on the shelf to fry our chips instead. Doesnt explain why that hasnt happened to the price world wide. Not everybody charges what we do for fuel. The bulk of europe does. And there hasnt been much rain forest in europe for quite a while now. |
Talking of fuel.
In message , Tim Lamb
writes In message , Tim Streater writes In article , harry wrote: I was in B&Q the other day and I came across (4litre in small print ha ha) plastic cans of paraffin. I suddenly thought aha, one could use that to eke out the diesel? But when I divided the cost by four is was the same price as diesel. So, as we all know, the cost of diesel (road fuel) is mostly tax, they must be making a hell of a profit on this paraffin. It was in the gardening bit for greenhouse heaters BTW. Required for garden weed control flame wands as well. Turnover will be (comparatively) low for that stuff. I'm looking forward to the time when agricultural diesel is permitted in *on road* vehicles:-) regards Sounds like another half baked idea from this government. Don't they realise that once it's done it can't be undone? -- hugh |
Talking of fuel.
Tim Streater wrote
Rod Speed wrote Tim Lamb wrote Rod Speed wrote Theo Markettos wrote dennis@home wrote Theo Markettos wrote I'm sure there must be some kind of law of economics here, that anything that can be put in a car always ends up the same price as diesel. It happened with cooking oil... it used to be 50p/litre until people caught on about using it for fuel, now it's 1.40ish a litre. And there is no duty on that so someone really is profiteering. Supply and demand. At 50p a litre, Tesco's stocks would be gone in a flash. The same goes for producers and wholesalers. They can't grow it any faster, They can however grow a lot more of it. Not really. Yes, really. Where? Most places. You either displace some other saleable crop They must have been making money on it when it was sold at 50p a liter or they wouldnt have bothered growing it. Now you're being a fathead. We'll see... If you're talking about useful quantities, please indicate *where*. Australia, the US, Canada, south america, eastern europe, etc etc etc. or knock down more rain forest. Doesnt happen in the first world. Yeah we know this. He clearly doesnt. And your point was *what*, precisely? That hardly anywhere where cooking oil is grown is rain forest knocked down to grow it. Oil seed rape is probably only grown once in a five year rotation. There is a lot more than just that thats used to grow oil. And your point was *what*, precisely? That there is a lot more cooking oil than just canola. so the price goes up. At 1.50 a litre there's no point using it as fuel, and so there's some left on the shelf to fry our chips instead. Doesnt explain why that hasnt happened to the price world wide. And your point was *what*, precisely? Record's stuck. Not everybody charges what we do for fuel. The bulk of europe does. And there hasnt been much rain forest in europe for quite a while now. And your point was *what*, precisely? Record's stuck. If thats the best you can manage, I wont be bothering with your reply again. |
Talking of fuel.
Tim Streater wrote
Rod Speed wrote Tim Streater wrote Rod Speed wrote Tim Lamb wrote Rod Speed wrote Theo Markettos wrote dennis@home wrote Theo Markettos wrote I'm sure there must be some kind of law of economics here, that anything that can be put in a car always ends up the same price as diesel. It happened with cooking oil... it used to be 50p/litre until people caught on about using it for fuel, now it's 1.40ish a litre. And there is no duty on that so someone really is profiteering. Supply and demand. At 50p a litre, Tesco's stocks would be gone in a flash. The same goes for producers and wholesalers. They can't grow it any faster, They can however grow a lot more of it. Not really. Yes, really. Where? Most places. You either displace some other saleable crop They must have been making money on it when it was sold at 50p a liter or they wouldnt have bothered growing it. Now you're being a fathead. We'll see... If you're talking about useful quantities, please indicate *where*. Australia, the US, Canada, south america, eastern europe, etc etc etc. All places where population density is low compared to Western Europe. Even you should have noticed that quite a bit of what western europe consumes does come from places like that and has done for centurys now. And even so, that land, if useful farmland, is being farmed anyway, for the most part. No reason why they cant choose to produce oil that can be used in cars etc if there is a market for that in western europe where diesel isnt that cheap. or knock down more rain forest. Doesnt happen in the first world. Yeah we know this. He clearly doesnt. And your point was *what*, precisely? That hardly anywhere where cooking oil is grown is rain forest knocked down to grow it. Either way, you're displacing some other useful crop. Sure, but why is that necessarily something that should be avoided by jacking up the retail price of cooking oil as he claimed ? Makes a lot more sense to just flog grown oil at service stations in bowsers instead if there is a market for that in western europe. Oil seed rape is probably only grown once in a five year rotation. There is a lot more than just that thats used to grow oil. And your point was *what*, precisely? That there is a lot more cooking oil than just canola. Still has to be grown though, eh. [snip non sequiturs which Rod couldn't justify] Everyone can see for themselves that that is a lie when that snippage is reversed. so the price goes up. At 1.50 a litre there's no point using it as fuel, and so there's some left on the shelf to fry our chips instead. Doesnt explain why that hasnt happened to the price world wide. And your point was what, precisely? Record's stuck. Not everybody charges what we do for fuel. The bulk of europe does. And there hasnt been much rain forest in europe for quite a while now. And your point was what, precisely? Record's stuck. If thats the best you can manage, I wont be bothering with your reply again. |
Talking of fuel.
"Tim Streater" wrote in message ... In article , "Rod Speed" wrote: Tim Streater wrote Rod Speed wrote Tim Lamb wrote Rod Speed wrote Theo Markettos wrote dennis@home wrote Theo Markettos wrote I'm sure there must be some kind of law of economics here, that anything that can be put in a car always ends up the same price as diesel. It happened with cooking oil... it used to be 50p/litre until people caught on about using it for fuel, now it's 1.40ish a litre. And there is no duty on that so someone really is profiteering. Supply and demand. At 50p a litre, Tesco's stocks would be gone in a flash. The same goes for producers and wholesalers. They can't grow it any faster, They can however grow a lot more of it. Not really. Yes, really. Where? Most places. You either displace some other saleable crop They must have been making money on it when it was sold at 50p a liter or they wouldnt have bothered growing it. Now you're being a fathead. We'll see... If you're talking about useful quantities, please indicate *where*. Australia, the US, Canada, south america, eastern europe, etc etc etc. All places where population density is low compared to Western Europe. And even so, that land, if useful farmland, is being farmed anyway, for the most part. or knock down more rain forest. Doesnt happen in the first world. Yeah we know this. He clearly doesnt. And your point was *what*, precisely? That hardly anywhere where cooking oil is grown is rain forest knocked down to grow it. Either way, you're displacing some other useful crop. Oil seed rape is probably only grown once in a five year rotation. There is a lot more than just that thats used to grow oil. And your point was *what*, precisely? That there is a lot more cooking oil than just canola. Still has to be grown though, eh. [snip non sequiturs which Rod couldn't justify] Tim, you're cruisin for a bruisin from our Rodders as in his usual copy/paste response - "Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind Tim Streater wrote just the puerile **** thats all it can ever manage." ;) http://phorums.com.au/archive/index.php/t-42666.html |
Talking of fuel.
In message om, brass
monkey writes That there is a lot more cooking oil than just canola. Still has to be grown though, eh. [snip non sequiturs which Rod couldn't justify] Tim, you're cruisin for a bruisin from our Rodders as in his usual copy/paste response - "Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind Tim Streater wrote just the puerile **** thats all it can ever manage." I've cut the attributions:-) The issue of cropping variations hit America and Mexico a few years back. I don't have the detail. Something like a significant part of the American corn output was diverted to source methanol for the transport industry. Insufficient corn was then available for the Mexican Tortilla industry. Probably exaggerated by commodity trading as well. World arable production is roughly balanced with the once in 4 years glut in Australia offset by frost damage to production from the Baltic states, perhaps. Oil bearing crops produce such a meagre amount of oil/ha and global transport/heating consumption is so huge that Govt. offset targets are only a few %. Someone else can do the sums:-) regards -- Tim Lamb |
Talking of fuel.
On Apr 5, 10:00*pm, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , *"Rod Speed" wrote: Tim Lamb wrote Rod Speed wrote Theo Markettos wrote dennis@home wrote Theo Markettos wrote I'm sure there must be some kind of law of economics here, that anything that can be put in a car always ends up the same price as diesel. *It happened with cooking oil... *it used to be 50p/litre until people caught on about using it for fuel, now it's 1.40ish a litre. And there is no duty on that so someone really is profiteering. Supply and demand. *At 50p a litre, Tesco's stocks would be gone in a flash. The same goes for producers and wholesalers. *They can't grow it any faster, They can however grow a lot more of it. Not really. Yes, really. Where? You either displace some other saleable crop They must have been making money on it when it was sold at 50p a liter or they wouldnt have bothered growing it. Now you're being a fathead. If you're talking about useful quantities, please indicate *where*. or knock down more rain forest. Doesnt happen in the first world. Yeah we know this. And your point was *what*, precisely? Oil seed rape is probably only grown once in a five year rotation. There is a lot more than just that thats used to grow oil. And your point was *what*, precisely? so the price goes up. *At 1.50 a litre there's no point using it as fuel, and so there's some left on the shelf to fry our chips instead. Doesnt explain why that hasnt happened to the price world wide. And your point was *what*, precisely? Not everybody charges what we do for fuel. The bulk of europe does. And there hasnt been much rain forest in europe for quite a while now. And your point was *what*, precisely? The point is, he is trying to move the goal posts. |
Talking of fuel.
On Apr 6, 9:23*am, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message om, brass monkey writes That there is a lot more cooking oil than just canola. Still has to be grown though, eh. [snip non sequiturs which Rod couldn't justify] Tim, you're cruisin for a bruisin from our Rodders as in his usual copy/paste response - "Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind Tim Streater wrote just the puerile **** thats all it can ever manage." I've cut the attributions:-) The issue of cropping variations hit America and Mexico a few years back. I don't have the detail. Something like a significant part of the American corn output was diverted to source methanol for the transport industry. Insufficient corn was then available for the Mexican Tortilla industry. Probably exaggerated by commodity trading as well. World arable production is roughly balanced with the once in 4 years glut in Australia offset by frost damage to production from the Baltic states, perhaps. Oil bearing crops produce such a meagre amount of oil/ha and global transport/heating consumption is so huge that Govt. offset targets are only a few %. Someone else can do the sums:-) regards -- Tim Lamb Yes, you're right. I remember all that business too. |
Talking of fuel.
Tim Lamb wrote:
The issue of cropping variations hit America and Mexico a few years back. I don't have the detail. Something like a significant part of the American corn output was diverted to source methanol for the transport industry. Yes. In fact legally mandated. Insufficient corn was then available for the Mexican Tortilla industry. Thats an urban myth. **** all of mexican corn is imported from the US. Probably exaggerated by commodity trading as well. Not even possible with corn that is grown in the country its used in. World arable production is roughly balanced with the once in 4 years glut in Australia offset by frost damage to production from the Baltic states, perhaps. Hardly ever. Oil bearing crops produce such a meagre amount of oil/ha Thats just plain wrong. and global transport/heating consumption is so huge That wasnt even being discussed. What was being discussed was the relatively small market in western europe where the high cost of diesel due to govt taxes where cookling oil can be a viable alternative and the silly claim that the price of cooking oil was deliverably trippled by someone to stop it being used in the small number of diesel fueled cars. that Govt. offset targets are only a few %. Someone else can do the sums:-) The figure that matters is the diesel fuel use in cars in western europe where the govt tax on diesel might justify the use of grown oil in cars. |
Talking of fuel.
harry wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:00 pm, Tim Streater wrote: In article , "Rod Speed" wrote: Tim Lamb wrote Rod Speed wrote Theo Markettos wrote dennis@home wrote Theo Markettos wrote I'm sure there must be some kind of law of economics here, that anything that can be put in a car always ends up the same price as diesel. It happened with cooking oil... it used to be 50p/litre until people caught on about using it for fuel, now it's 1.40ish a litre. And there is no duty on that so someone really is profiteering. Supply and demand. At 50p a litre, Tesco's stocks would be gone in a flash. The same goes for producers and wholesalers. They can't grow it any faster, They can however grow a lot more of it. Not really. Yes, really. Where? You either displace some other saleable crop They must have been making money on it when it was sold at 50p a liter or they wouldnt have bothered growing it. Now you're being a fathead. If you're talking about useful quantities, please indicate *where*. or knock down more rain forest. Doesnt happen in the first world. Yeah we know this. And your point was *what*, precisely? Oil seed rape is probably only grown once in a five year rotation. There is a lot more than just that thats used to grow oil. And your point was *what*, precisely? so the price goes up. At 1.50 a litre there's no point using it as fuel, and so there's some left on the shelf to fry our chips instead. Doesnt explain why that hasnt happened to the price world wide. And your point was *what*, precisely? Not everybody charges what we do for fuel. The bulk of europe does. And there hasnt been much rain forest in europe for quite a while now. And your point was *what*, precisely? The point is, he is trying to move the goal posts. You're lying, again. |
Talking of fuel.
Tim Streater wrote just the puerile **** thats all can ever
manage when its got done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is. |
Talking of fuel.
"Rod Speed" wrote in message ... Tim Streater wrote just the puerile **** thats all can ever manage when its got done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is. hahahaha, there'ya go Tim. LMFAO |
Talking of fuel.
brass monkey wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message ... Tim Streater wrote just the puerile **** thats all can ever manage when its got done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is. hahahaha, there'ya go Tim. LMFAO well its not even grammatical Australian is it? -- To people who know nothing, anything is possible. To people who know too much, it is a sad fact that they know how little is really possible - and how hard it is to achieve it. |
Talking of fuel.
"Rod Speed" wrote:
Tim Streater wrote just the puerile **** thats all can ever manage when its got done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is. You may want to try posting that again, when you sober up. |
Talking of fuel.
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: brass monkey wrote: "Rod Speed" wrote in message ... Tim Streater wrote just the puerile **** thats all can ever manage when its got done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is. hahahaha, there'ya go Tim. LMFAO well its not even grammatical Australian is it? Well Rod and harry and dennis manage to waste a lot of each other's time, so that's a plus. Did you ever play Ultima Online? its a role playimng internet based multi-user thing. I used to sit in a virtual house chatting to people who had wound up there as well.. practising the art form known as 'provocation' which was essentially to enrage (through use of a musical instrument) one monster outside enough to attack another. Sitting in a house was good as the downside of this art was that if it failed they would both attack YOU. Sadly the game designers made house walls soundproof after a server update. I cant think why I thought of that...;-) -- To people who know nothing, anything is possible. To people who know too much, it is a sad fact that they know how little is really possible - and how hard it is to achieve it. |
Talking of fuel.
"Tim Streater" wrote in message ... In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: brass monkey wrote: "Rod Speed" wrote in message ... Tim Streater wrote just the puerile **** thats all can ever manage when its got done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is. hahahaha, there'ya go Tim. LMFAO well its not even grammatical Australian is it? Well Rod and harry and dennis manage to waste a lot of each other's time, so that's a plus. Odd I think you have replied to rod and harry more times than I have. |
Talking of fuel.
dennis@home wrote:
"Tim Streater" wrote in message ... In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: brass monkey wrote: "Rod Speed" wrote in message ... Tim Streater wrote just the puerile **** thats all can ever manage when its got done like a ****ing dinner, as it always is. hahahaha, there'ya go Tim. LMFAO well its not even grammatical Australian is it? Well Rod and harry and dennis manage to waste a lot of each other's time, so that's a plus. Odd I think you have replied to rod and harry more times than I have. that's how I know, dennis. -- To people who know nothing, anything is possible. To people who know too much, it is a sad fact that they know how little is really possible - and how hard it is to achieve it. |
Talking of fuel.
In message , Rod Speed
writes Tim Lamb wrote: snip.. Oil bearing crops produce such a meagre amount of oil/ha Thats just plain wrong. Is it? Winter sown Rape yield around 3 tons/ha oil content 10% Spring sown yield around 1.8 tons/ha and oil content 20% and global transport/heating consumption is so huge That wasnt even being discussed. What was being discussed was the relatively small market in western europe where the high cost of diesel due to govt taxes where cookling oil can be a viable alternative and the silly claim that the price of cooking oil was deliverably trippled by someone to stop it being used in the small number of diesel fueled cars. that Govt. offset targets are only a few %. Someone else can do the sums:-) The figure that matters is the diesel fuel use in cars in western europe where the govt tax on diesel might justify the use of grown oil in cars. There might be space in Australia to grow your own fuel but there certainly is not here. As someone else pointed out, if it was cheaper to run the car on cooking oil, there would quickly be none for cooking. regards -- Tim Lamb |
Talking of fuel.
Tim Lamb wrote
Rod Speed wrote Tim Lamb wrote: Oil bearing crops produce such a meagre amount of oil/ha Thats just plain wrong. Is it? Yep, the best of them produce very decent yields. Winter sown Rape yield around 3 tons/ha oil content 10% Spring sown yield around 1.8 tons/ha and oil content 20% There are a hell of a lot more oil seed crops than just rape, and quite a few where the oil is a waste product too like with cotton. And there is apparently an olive oil lake developing in the EU with the oil so bad that it isnt viable as food oil anymore too. and global transport/heating consumption is so huge That wasnt even being discussed. What was being discussed was the relatively small market in western europe where the high cost of diesel due to govt taxes where cookling oil can be a viable alternative and the silly claim that the price of cooking oil was deliverably trippled by someone to stop it being used in the small number of diesel fueled cars. that Govt. offset targets are only a few %. Someone else can do the sums:-) The figure that matters is the diesel fuel use in cars in western europe where the govt tax on diesel might justify the use of grown oil in cars. There might be space in Australia to grow your own fuel but there certainly is not here. Thats just plain wrong with europe. Particularly in eastern europe, there is plenty of space to do that. As someone else pointed out, if it was cheaper to run the car on cooking oil, there would quickly be none for cooking. Just because someone claims that doesnt make it gospel. It is in fact just plain wrong with western europe with eastern europe with plenty of space to grow oil if that was economically viable. |
Talking of fuel.
On Apr 6, 11:00*pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote Rod Speed wrote Tim Lamb wrote: Oil bearing crops produce such a meagre amount of oil/ha Thats just plain wrong. Is it? Yep, the best of them produce very decent yields. *Winter sown Rape yield around 3 tons/ha oil content 10% Spring sown yield around 1.8 tons/ha and oil content 20% There are a hell of a lot more oil seed crops than just rape, and quite a few where the oil is a waste product too like with cotton. And there is apparently an olive oil lake developing in the EU with the oil so bad that it isnt viable as food oil anymore too. and global transport/heating consumption is so huge That wasnt even being discussed. What was being discussed was the relatively small market in western europe where the high cost of diesel due to govt taxes where cookling oil can be a viable alternative and the silly claim that the price of cooking oil was deliverably trippled by someone to stop it being used in the small number of diesel fueled cars. that Govt. offset targets are only a few %. Someone else can do the sums:-) The figure that matters is the diesel fuel use in cars in western europe where the govt tax on diesel might justify the use of grown oil in cars. There might be space in Australia to grow your own fuel but there certainly is not here. Thats just plain wrong with europe. Particularly in eastern europe, there is plenty of space to do that. As someone else pointed out, if it was cheaper to run the car on cooking oil, there would quickly be none for cooking. Just because someone claims that doesnt make it gospel. It is in fact just plain wrong with western europe with eastern europe with plenty of space to grow oil if that was economically viable. Couldn't even be done in Oz. Most of it is desert. You also have to deduct out the fuel needed to grow/transport the stuff, (around 25%) |
Talking of fuel.
harry wrote
Rod Speed wrote Tim Lamb wrote Rod Speed wrote Tim Lamb wrote: Oil bearing crops produce such a meagre amount of oil/ha Thats just plain wrong. Is it? Yep, the best of them produce very decent yields. Winter sown Rape yield around 3 tons/ha oil content 10% Spring sown yield around 1.8 tons/ha and oil content 20% There are a hell of a lot more oil seed crops than just rape, and quite a few where the oil is a waste product too like with cotton. And there is apparently an olive oil lake developing in the EU with the oil so bad that it isnt viable as food oil anymore too. and global transport/heating consumption is so huge That wasnt even being discussed. What was being discussed was the relatively small market in western europe where the high cost of diesel due to govt taxes where cookling oil can be a viable alternative and the silly claim that the price of cooking oil was deliverably trippled by someone to stop it being used in the small number of diesel fueled cars. that Govt. offset targets are only a few %. Someone else can do the sums:-) The figure that matters is the diesel fuel use in cars in western europe where the govt tax on diesel might justify the use of grown oil in cars. There might be space in Australia to grow your own fuel but there certainly is not here. Thats just plain wrong with europe. Particularly in eastern europe, there is plenty of space to do that. As someone else pointed out, if it was cheaper to run the car on cooking oil, there would quickly be none for cooking. Just because someone claims that doesnt make it gospel. It is in fact just plain wrong with western europe with eastern europe with plenty of space to grow oil if that was economically viable. Couldn't even be done in Oz. It has in fact been done here for more than a century now. Most of it is desert. Like hell it is. Have fun explaining where the wheat is grown, which just happens to be one of the world's largest wheat exporters. You also have to deduct out the fuel needed to grow/transport the stuff, (around 25%) You dont have to count the fuel used to grow the crop with the oil thats a byproduct of what the crop is grown for like with cotton etc, and your 25% is straight from your arse with most oil seed crops, we can tell from the smell. And we arent even discussing what makes sense environmentally either, we happen to be discussing the stupid claim that cooking oil is deliberately priced at 3 times its real price, so that those in western europe wont put it in their cars because diesel has a very high tax added in western europe. |
Talking of fuel.
On Apr 7, 9:03*am, "Rod Speed" wrote:
harry wrote Rod Speed wrote Tim Lamb wrote Rod Speed wrote Tim Lamb wrote: Oil bearing crops produce such a meagre amount of oil/ha Thats just plain wrong. Is it? Yep, the best of them produce very decent yields. Winter sown Rape yield around 3 tons/ha oil content 10% Spring sown yield around 1.8 tons/ha and oil content 20% There are a hell of a lot more oil seed crops than just rape, and quite a few where the oil is a waste product too like with cotton. And there is apparently an olive oil lake developing in the EU with the oil so bad that it isnt viable as food oil anymore too. and global transport/heating consumption is so huge That wasnt even being discussed. What was being discussed was the relatively small market in western europe where the high cost of diesel due to govt taxes where cookling oil can be a viable alternative and the silly claim that the price of cooking oil was deliverably trippled by someone to stop it being used in the small number of diesel fueled cars. that Govt. offset targets are only a few %. Someone else can do the sums:-) The figure that matters is the diesel fuel use in cars in western europe where the govt tax on diesel might justify the use of grown oil in cars. There might be space in Australia to grow your own fuel but there certainly is not here. Thats just plain wrong with europe. Particularly in eastern europe, there is plenty of space to do that. As someone else pointed out, if it was cheaper to run the car on cooking oil, there would quickly be none for cooking. Just because someone claims that doesnt make it gospel. It is in fact just plain wrong with western europe with eastern europe with plenty of space to grow oil if that was economically viable. Couldn't even be done in Oz. It has in fact been done here for more than a century now. Most of it is desert. Like hell it is. Have fun explaining where the wheat is grown, which just happens to be one of the world's largest wheat exporters. You also have to deduct out the fuel needed to grow/transport the stuff, (around 25%) You dont have to count the fuel used to grow the crop with the oil thats a byproduct of what the crop is grown for like with cotton etc, and your 25% is straight from your arse with most oil seed crops, we can tell from the smell. And we arent even discussing what makes sense environmentally either, we happen to be discussing the stupid claim that cooking oil is deliberately priced at 3 times its real price, so that those in western europe wont put it in their cars because diesel has a very high tax added in western europe.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Most of it is desert or semi-arid. I crossed OZ by bus/train. I saw mostly desert. Even some existing arable farms had problems with saline ground water rising and were being abandoned. So the desert is getting bigger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deserts_of_Australia You never even travelled in Oz? .. |
Talking of fuel.
In message , Rod Speed
writes snip There are a hell of a lot more oil seed crops than just rape, and quite a few where the oil is a waste product too like with cotton. So why do you think cropping is not diverted to produce this *oil*? And there is apparently an olive oil lake developing in the EU with the oil so bad that it isnt viable as food oil anymore too. Distortion of sensible production by EU agricultural payments? I don't imagine it is just thrown away. snip The figure that matters is the diesel fuel use in cars in western europe where the govt tax on diesel might justify the use of grown oil in cars. There might be space in Australia to grow your own fuel but there certainly is not here. Thats just plain wrong with europe. Particularly in eastern europe, there is plenty of space to do that. So what are they currently doing with the land? As someone else pointed out, if it was cheaper to run the car on cooking oil, there would quickly be none for cooking. Just because someone claims that doesnt make it gospel. Makes sense to me. It is in fact just plain wrong with western europe with eastern europe with plenty of space to grow oil if that was economically viable. I am not in Eastern Europe. If I were, I would grow crops which suited the climate and gave the best return without depleting soil fertility. I don't think this includes Cotton, Palm Oil, Olives or continuous Rape. Do you have some suggestions? regards -- Tim Lamb |
Talking of fuel.
harry wrote
Rod Speed wrote harry wrote Rod Speed wrote Tim Lamb wrote Rod Speed wrote Tim Lamb wrote: Oil bearing crops produce such a meagre amount of oil/ha Thats just plain wrong. Is it? Yep, the best of them produce very decent yields. Winter sown Rape yield around 3 tons/ha oil content 10% Spring sown yield around 1.8 tons/ha and oil content 20% There are a hell of a lot more oil seed crops than just rape, and quite a few where the oil is a waste product too like with cotton. And there is apparently an olive oil lake developing in the EU with the oil so bad that it isnt viable as food oil anymore too. and global transport/heating consumption is so huge That wasnt even being discussed. What was being discussed was the relatively small market in western europe where the high cost of diesel due to govt taxes where cookling oil can be a viable alternative and the silly claim that the price of cooking oil was deliverably trippled by someone to stop it being used in the small number of diesel fueled cars. that Govt. offset targets are only a few %. Someone else can do the sums:-) The figure that matters is the diesel fuel use in cars in western europe where the govt tax on diesel might justify the use of grown oil in cars. There might be space in Australia to grow your own fuel but there certainly is not here. Thats just plain wrong with europe. Particularly in eastern europe, there is plenty of space to do that. As someone else pointed out, if it was cheaper to run the car on cooking oil, there would quickly be none for cooking. Just because someone claims that doesnt make it gospel. It is in fact just plain wrong with western europe with eastern europe with plenty of space to grow oil if that was economically viable. Couldn't even be done in Oz. It has in fact been done here for more than a century now. Most of it is desert. Like hell it is. Have fun explaining where the wheat is grown, which just happens to be one of the world's largest wheat exporters. You also have to deduct out the fuel needed to grow/transport the stuff, (around 25%) You dont have to count the fuel used to grow the crop with the oil thats a byproduct of what the crop is grown for like with cotton etc, and your 25% is straight from your arse with most oil seed crops, we can tell from the smell. And we arent even discussing what makes sense environmentally either, we happen to be discussing the stupid claim that cooking oil is deliberately priced at 3 times its real price, so that those in western europe wont put it in their cars because diesel has a very high tax added in western europe. Most of it is desert or semi-arid. Like hell it is. Have fun explaining where the wheat is grown, which just happens to be one of the world's largest wheat exporters. There is in fact a bigger area suitable for growing oil than in the whole of western europe. I crossed OZ by bus/train. I saw mostly desert. Thats a tiny part of Australia, fool. Even some existing arable farms had problems with saline ground water rising and were being abandoned. **** all of it is in fact being abandoned. So the desert is getting bigger **** all of it is getting bigger. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deserts_of_Australia Doesnt say anything like your mindless silly ****. You never even travelled in Oz? Yep, over FAR more of it than you ever have. AND I can see what the ag production of the country is too. . |
Talking of fuel.
In message , Tim
Streater writes In article , Tim Lamb wrote: In message , Rod Speed writes It is in fact just plain wrong with western europe with eastern europe with plenty of space to grow oil if that was economically viable. I am not in Eastern Europe. If I were, I would grow crops which suited the climate and gave the best return without depleting soil fertility. I don't think this includes Cotton, Palm Oil, Olives or continuous Rape. Do you have some suggestions? He's just an ace bull****ter so we can take the answer as a No. There is always the chance of a gem in any heap of dross. In a negative and un-fruitful discussion, one can always disengage. regards -- Tim Lamb |
Talking of fuel.
"Tim Streater" wrote in message ... In article , Tim Lamb wrote: In message , Rod Speed writes It is in fact just plain wrong with western europe with eastern europe with plenty of space to grow oil if that was economically viable. I am not in Eastern Europe. If I were, I would grow crops which suited the climate and gave the best return without depleting soil fertility. I don't think this includes Cotton, Palm Oil, Olives or continuous Rape. Do you have some suggestions? He's just an ace bull****ter so we can take the answer as a No. Yes, he's spent all his time learning more and more about less and less until finally he knows ALL there is to know about ****all. |
Talking of fuel.
Tim Lamb wrote
Rod Speed wrote There are a hell of a lot more oil seed crops than just rape, and quite a few where the oil is a waste product too like with cotton. So why do you think cropping is not diverted to produce this *oil*? Because in the case of cotton, its grown for other reasons, like for the cotton, so there is no diversion at all when the oil thats a byproduct is used in cars instead of using diesel. And there is apparently an olive oil lake developing in the EU with the oil so bad that it isnt viable as food oil anymore too. Distortion of sensible production by EU agricultural payments? Nope, thats the result of the lackadaiscal production not producing what the consumer prefers, the higher quality olive oil that can be eaten. I don't imagine it is just thrown away. Its basically flogged all over the world with lies about the quality of that oil. The figure that matters is the diesel fuel use in cars in western europe where the govt tax on diesel might justify the use of grown oil in cars. There might be space in Australia to grow your own fuel but there certainly is not here. Thats just plain wrong with europe. Particularly in eastern europe, there is plenty of space to do that. So what are they currently doing with the land? Like with all agricultural land, growing what produces the best return and gambling on the weather etc. As someone else pointed out, if it was cheaper to run the car on cooking oil, there would quickly be none for cooking. Just because someone claims that doesnt make it gospel. Makes sense to me. Then you dont have a clue about how agricultural production works. It is in fact just plain wrong with western europe with eastern europe with plenty of space to grow oil if that was economically viable. I am not in Eastern Europe. Irrelevant to where it can be grown. If I were, I would grow crops which suited the climate and gave the best return without depleting soil fertility. And thats true of plenty of oil crops. I don't think this includes Cotton, You're wrong on that. Palm Oil, Olives or continuous Rape. There are a hell of a lot more crops that are viable for oil there. Do you have some suggestions? The other oil crops that grow there fine. And whats sold in western europe doesnt have to come from eastern europe anyway. |
Talking of fuel.
In message , Rod Speed
writes Tim Lamb wrote Rod Speed wrote There are a hell of a lot more oil seed crops than just rape, and quite a few where the oil is a waste product too like with cotton. So why do you think cropping is not diverted to produce this *oil*? Because in the case of cotton, its grown for other reasons, like for the cotton, so there is no diversion at all when the oil thats a byproduct is used in cars instead of using diesel. And in the case of all the others? And there is apparently an olive oil lake developing in the EU with the oil so bad that it isnt viable as food oil anymore too. Distortion of sensible production by EU agricultural payments? Nope, thats the result of the lackadaiscal production not producing what the consumer prefers, the higher quality olive oil that can be eaten. I know very little about Olives or their oil. It may be you are referring to a production process other than pressing or that trees have been retained beyond their useful life. I don't imagine it is just thrown away. Its basically flogged all over the world with lies about the quality of that oil. So still not used for fuel. The figure that matters is the diesel fuel use in cars in western europe where the govt tax on diesel might justify the use of grown oil in cars. There might be space in Australia to grow your own fuel but there certainly is not here. Thats just plain wrong with europe. Particularly in eastern europe, there is plenty of space to do that. So what are they currently doing with the land? Like with all agricultural land, growing what produces the best return and gambling on the weather etc. As someone else pointed out, if it was cheaper to run the car on cooking oil, there would quickly be none for cooking. Just because someone claims that doesnt make it gospel. Makes sense to me. Then you dont have a clue about how agricultural production works. I think I do:-) It is in fact just plain wrong with western europe with eastern europe with plenty of space to grow oil if that was economically viable. I am not in Eastern Europe. Irrelevant to where it can be grown. If I were, I would grow crops which suited the climate and gave the best return without depleting soil fertility. And thats true of plenty of oil crops. I don't think this includes Cotton, You're wrong on that. Palm Oil, Olives or continuous Rape. There are a hell of a lot more crops that are viable for oil there. Do you have some suggestions? The other oil crops that grow there fine. Could you kindly put forward some examples? And whats sold in western europe doesnt have to come from eastern europe anyway. True. You suggested the land was available. I am just trying to establish what information you have to justify the suitability and availability of the land. regards -- Tim Lamb |
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