I need to claim my fisrt winter fuel payment blah blah.

I phone up because they want my birth certificate,.

No way I say, is that going in the post.

OK they say, send us a registered verified copy - just go into the job
centre and get it verified and and send a verified copy.

Me: I have never been to the job centre in my life and I don't know
where it is, will a bank or solicitor verified copy do?

Them: Sure that will be fine.

Today back comes the form and in a separate cover the birth certificate
copy saying I must take it to te local job centre..

Oh and when I said I wanted a cheque they sent it back saying 'I must
tell them where I want to cash it'

I don't want to cash it, I just don't trust any given bank (account) to
be there next year to DD it into.

So far as with all government grants its cost as much to not get it as
I would benefit by getting it.

This is the THIRD time this year that some stupid junior clerk in some
organisation that ought to know better has ****ed all over me despite
the fact that I have phoned, checked the rules and complied with them.

Society is really falling apart due to systemetically introduced
incompetence at every level.



--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On Mar 14, 1:00*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
I need to claim my fisrt winter fuel payment blah blah.

I phone up because they want my birth certificate,.

No way I say, is that going in the post.

OK they say, send us a registered verified copy - just go into the job
centre and get it verified *and and send a verified copy.

Me: I have never been to the job centre in my life and I don't know
where it is, will a bank or solicitor verified copy do?

Them: Sure that will be fine.

Today back comes the form *and in a separate cover the birth certificate
copy saying I must take it to te local job centre..

Oh and when I said I wanted a cheque they sent it back saying 'I must
tell them where I want to cash it'

I don't want to cash it, I just don't trust any given *bank (account) to
be there next year to DD it into.

So far as with all government grants its cost as much to not get it *as
I would benefit by getting it.

This is the THIRD time this year that some stupid junior clerk in some
organisation *that ought to know better has ****ed all over me despite
the fact that I have phoned, checked the rules and complied with them.

Society is really falling apart due to systemetically introduced
incompetence at every level.

They play as many games as they can.


NT

Society is really falling apart due to systemetically introduced
incompetence at every level.




Absolutely what I have been thinking for years.

David

On 14/03/2012 13:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I need to claim my fisrt winter fuel payment blah blah.

I phone up because they want my birth certificate,.

No way I say, is that going in the post.

OK they say, send us a registered verified copy - just go into the job
centre and get it verified and and send a verified copy.

Me: I have never been to the job centre in my life and I don't know
where it is, will a bank or solicitor verified copy do?

Them: Sure that will be fine.

Today back comes the form and in a separate cover the birth certificate
copy saying I must take it to te local job centre..

Oh and when I said I wanted a cheque they sent it back saying 'I must
tell them where I want to cash it'

I don't want to cash it, I just don't trust any given bank (account) to
be there next year to DD it into.

So far as with all government grants its cost as much to not get it as I
would benefit by getting it.

This is the THIRD time this year that some stupid junior clerk in some
organisation that ought to know better has ****ed all over me despite
the fact that I have phoned, checked the rules and complied with them.

Society is really falling apart due to systemetically introduced
incompetence at every level.




2 years ago I had underpaid my council tax by £10, when it was brought
to my attention I paid it, but they put it towards the new year and did
not deduct it from the oustanding £10, after several irate phone calls I
agreed to pay again....you guessed they put it towards the new tax year!
I thought fe.k off I have paid it twice, then a reminder pops through
the door re me owing them £10 from the previous year, I just ignored it.
Eventually I get a letter from a debt collector and a date when they
would visit my house with a warrent or something to collect goods to the
value of £10.
I emailed the debt collector and advised him I paid twice and they
better contact the council, in addition they were advised the press
would be present when they come to collect my £10 and I would take them
to court if they dared continue. Never heard anymore.
Today I receive my council tax for the year, and they wonder why people
get irate with them, at the top of the page it states `demand notice`for
the payment of.....
Council tax isnt even legal or lawful yet they DEMAND payment. No
niceties from the council then.

On 14/03/2012 13:21, ss wrote:
On 14/03/2012 13:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I need to claim my fisrt winter fuel payment blah blah.

I phone up because they want my birth certificate,.

No way I say, is that going in the post.

OK they say, send us a registered verified copy - just go into the job
centre and get it verified and and send a verified copy.

Me: I have never been to the job centre in my life and I don't know
where it is, will a bank or solicitor verified copy do?

Them: Sure that will be fine.

Today back comes the form and in a separate cover the birth certificate
copy saying I must take it to te local job centre..

Oh and when I said I wanted a cheque they sent it back saying 'I must
tell them where I want to cash it'

I don't want to cash it, I just don't trust any given bank (account) to
be there next year to DD it into.

So far as with all government grants its cost as much to not get it as I
would benefit by getting it.

This is the THIRD time this year that some stupid junior clerk in some
organisation that ought to know better has ****ed all over me despite
the fact that I have phoned, checked the rules and complied with them.

Society is really falling apart due to systemetically introduced
incompetence at every level.

2 years ago I had underpaid my council tax by £10, when it was brought
to my attention I paid it, but they put it towards the new year and did
not deduct it from the oustanding £10, after several irate phone calls I
agreed to pay again....you guessed they put it towards the new tax year!
I thought fe.k off I have paid it twice, then a reminder pops through
the door re me owing them £10 from the previous year, I just ignored it.
Eventually I get a letter from a debt collector and a date when they
would visit my house with a warrent or something to collect goods to the
value of £10.
I emailed the debt collector and advised him I paid twice and they
better contact the council, in addition they were advised the press
would be present when they come to collect my £10 and I would take them
to court if they dared continue. Never heard anymore.
Today I receive my council tax for the year, and they wonder why people
get irate with them, at the top of the page it states `demand notice`for
the payment of.....
Council tax isnt even legal or lawful yet they DEMAND payment. No
niceties from the council then.

I've had summons's twice from my local council. The first was sorted
out by phone call after I said "See you in court", the second dealt by
letter to the court illustrating bank payments and agreed payment
schedule!

You can't make it up!!

....snip...

I would politely write back asking why they want this extra and pointless
information and why what you have done is no good. At the top of the
letter, perhaps even in bold, write...

Cc: insert your MPs name here

....and send a copy to your MP.

Wait for your cheque.

Paul DS.

Paul D Smith wrote:
Cc: insert your MPs name here
...and send a copy to your MP.

Nothing to do with your MP, it's your local *council*, so CC your
local *councillor*.

I had this hassle myself just a few weeks ago.

Tenant moved out of flat last November. We sorted out the final
bills, she gave me enough to cover final bills to her moving out.
I phoned council saying she'd gone. They sent me the council tax
bill. I phoned again saying it needed a single person discount put
on it. "Are you Ms X?" they asked. No, said I. Well, bugger off
they said. We can only talk to Ms X.

So, phoned Ms X, told her to talk to council to get single person
discount put on bill for property she'd moved out of. Got new bill.
Went to bank to pay it. "This has no bank giro details, we can't
take this" says them. So, go into town to Council Offices. They've
closed the payment counters. So, I put cheque and bill in envelope
and pop it in their letter box. Job done.

Month later, former tenant phones: she's being summonsed for non-
payment! WTF? Phone council. "I've paid!". No you haven't, we
don't take cheques. Well, send me my damn cheque back and I'll
come in and pay cash - oh, wait, you've closed the b***y payment
desks haven't you?

So, go online and try to make an online payment. They want me to
register an account and set up a regular payment. Bugger that.
Log onto my bank instead and make a one-off payment.

Two weeks later, former tenent phones again: another demand.
She's phoned the council, they have said "your landlord is
lying to you, he hadn't paid anything".

I storm into the council offices and wave a bank account
printout at them. Oh, but it's not on our system. WTF? How
is a payment I made 16 days ago not on your system? Oh, I
can't answer that. I insisted they scan my account printout
and add it to the system, then I filled in a complaints form
in front of them, then asked that their supervisor witness
me handing it to them.

Gahh!!! When they had payment desks any payment would be on
their system within milliseconds of them pressing the enter
key.

And I still haven't received the cheque back from them so as
far as I'm concerned, I've paid twice.

JGH

On Mar 14, 3:24*pm, jgharston wrote:

So, phoned Ms X, told her to talk to council to get single person
discount put on bill for property she'd moved out of.

AIUI, you can't have single-person discount when *nobody* is living in
the property.

Neil

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Mar 14, 3:24 pm, jgharston wrote:

So, phoned Ms X, told her to talk to council to get single person
discount put on bill for property she'd moved out of.

AIUI, you can't have single-person discount when *nobody* is living in
the property.

I've had a property empty for quite a while, I was getting a 50% reduction
in council tax. Now, they're moving the goalposts and changing it to 10%.

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:01:11 +0000, brass monkey wrote:

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
news:a88d35d6-6c92-4513-
...
On Mar 14, 3:24 pm, jgharston wrote:

So, phoned Ms X, told her to talk to council to get single person
discount put on bill for property she'd moved out of.

AIUI, you can't have single-person discount when *nobody* is living in
the property.

I've had a property empty for quite a while, I was getting a 50%
reduction in council tax. Now, they're moving the goalposts and changing
it to 10%.

Why is council tax required at all on empty properties? If they're empty
then there's nobody in them to benefit from the services that council tax
goes toward providing, surely?

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:01:11 -0000, brass monkey wrote:

I've had a property empty for quite a while, I was getting a 50%
reduction in council tax. Now, they're moving the goalposts and changing
it to 10%.

Your council have been very slow if they are only just shifting to
10% unoccupied discount. Ours changed the discout the moment they
could which was a goood few years ago. B-(


--
Cheers
Dave.

In message
,
Neil Williams writes
On Mar 14, 3:24*pm, jgharston wrote:

So, phoned Ms X, told her to talk to council to get single person
discount put on bill for property she'd moved out of.

AIUI, you can't have single-person discount when *nobody* is living in
the property.

Neil
If it's empty [1] in this area you don't pay anything for up to 6
months. There was talk of that changing and allowing councils to charge
full whack on empty properties.

[1] Empty mean just that - absolutely no furniture in it.
--
hugh

....snip...


Nothing to do with your MP, it's your local *council*, so CC your
local *councillor*.


Worth a try if your councillors are the hard-working sorts but personally
I'd go around them. Winter fuel allowance may be administered by the
council but its a central government grant.

Better still, Cc in councillors and MP and see who gets things rolling for
you ;-). "Walk softly and carry a big stick" as they say.

Paul DS.

In message , Paul D Smith
writes
...snip...


Nothing to do with your MP, it's your local *council*, so CC your
local *councillor*.


Worth a try if your councillors are the hard-working sorts but
personally I'd go around them. Winter fuel allowance may be
administered by the council but its a central government grant.

Better still, Cc in councillors and MP and see who gets things rolling
for you ;-). "Walk softly and carry a big stick" as they say.

Paul DS.
WFA noting to do with council. It is administered by DWP and
incidentally it is £200 per pensioner household and not as quoted in
todays DT, £200 per pensioner.
--
hugh

In article
,
jgharston wrote:
Paul D Smith wrote:
Cc: insert your MPs name here
...and send a copy to your MP.

Nothing to do with your MP, it's your local *council*, so CC your
local *councillor*.

true, but if you get your MP to contact the council on your behalf it can
do wonders.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

In message , charles
writes
In article
,
jgharston wrote:
Paul D Smith wrote:
Cc: insert your MPs name here
...and send a copy to your MP.

Nothing to do with your MP, it's your local *council*, so CC your
local *councillor*.

true, but if you get your MP to contact the council on your behalf it can
do wonders.

Maybe if your MP is of the same party as the council leadership.
--
hugh

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I need to claim my fisrt winter fuel payment blah blah.

I phone up because they want my birth certificate,.

Must be new. They already have those details for OAP etc so why for
something so minor? Or perhaps it's just this present government reducing
bureaucracy? ;-)

--
*Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I need to claim my fisrt winter fuel payment blah blah.

I phone up because they want my birth certificate,.

Must be new. They already have those details for OAP etc so why for
something so minor? Or perhaps it's just this present government reducing
bureaucracy? ;-)

I dint draw OAP.

I am too young.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I need to claim my fisrt winter fuel payment blah blah.

I phone up because they want my birth certificate,.

Must be new. They already have those details for OAP etc so why for
something so minor? Or perhaps it's just this present government
reducing bureaucracy? ;-)

I dint draw OAP.

I am too young.

The point was 'they' don't ask for your BC for that.

--
*OK, so what's the speed of dark? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I need to claim my fisrt winter fuel payment blah blah.
I phone up because they want my birth certificate,.
Must be new. They already have those details for OAP etc so why for
something so minor? Or perhaps it's just this present government
reducing bureaucracy? ;-)

I dint draw OAP.

I am too young.

The point was 'they' don't ask for your BC for that.

I think they DO if its not already on record.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I need to claim my fisrt winter fuel payment blah blah.
I phone up because they want my birth certificate,.
Must be new. They already have those details for OAP etc so why for
something so minor? Or perhaps it's just this present government
reducing bureaucracy? ;-)

I dint draw OAP.

I am too young.

The point was 'they' don't ask for your BC for that.

I think they DO if its not already on record.

I assume it's held with your NI number?

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14/03/2012 13:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I need to claim my fisrt winter fuel payment blah blah.

I phone up because they want my birth certificate,...

Last time I saw that was when I applied for my first passport, more than
50 years ago. I still got the winter fuel payment.

....
Oh and when I said I wanted a cheque they sent it back saying 'I must
tell them where I want to cash it'

I don't want to cash it, I just don't trust any given bank (account) to
be there next year to DD it into....

If the economy get so bad that the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking
Corporation goes under, money won't be worth anything anyway.

Colin Bignell

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I need to claim my fisrt winter fuel payment blah blah.

I phone up because they want my birth certificate,.

No way I say, is that going in the post.

OK they say, send us a registered verified copy - just go into the job
centre and get it verified and and send a verified copy.

Me: I have never been to the job centre in my life and I don't know where
it is, will a bank or solicitor verified copy do?

Them: Sure that will be fine.

Today back comes the form and in a separate cover the birth certificate
copy saying I must take it to te local job centre..

Oh and when I said I wanted a cheque they sent it back saying 'I must tell
them where I want to cash it'

I don't want to cash it, I just don't trust any given bank (account) to
be there next year to DD it into.

So far as with all government grants its cost as much to not get it as I
would benefit by getting it.

This is the THIRD time this year that some stupid junior clerk in some
organisation that ought to know better has ****ed all over me despite the
fact that I have phoned, checked the rules and complied with them.

Society is really falling apart due to systemetically introduced
incompetence at every level.

My wife gets it automatically (the payment) and always has done.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Society is really falling apart due to systemetically introduced
incompetence at every level.

There's certainly incompetence, which is due not to the "juniors" (who
deal with the public) but to the 3rd-rate managers, who are all that
public service can recruit; the better people go into business, where
the "rewards packages" are so much higher than those in the private
sector. (This tide may be turning, we may hope, as even the fat cats
gradually have to tighten their belts, weeping floods of tears into the
upholstery of their company Audis.)


Don't blame the authorities for all this excruciatingly petty
bureaucracy: blame the fraudsters who make it necessary. And the
arse-covering mentality of ALL management in almost ALL sectors, which
-- as you say -- is gradually hamstringing our society. ["gradually
hamstringing" -- a most unsatisfactory phrase, but best I can do off the
cuff.]

John

p.s. Dave P said:

I think they DO if its not already on record.
I assume it's held with your NI number?

You would be *astonished* at the details that various bodies "don't
know". Between them, public services and private corporations know more
about me than I do. You'd think that at least the public services (DHSS,
HMRC, etc.) would share the information, but "they can't"; and "DPA" and
all that ****e. (plus arse covering: see above)

Mind: there's always the element of checking: "Yes we know all about
you, but we need you to prove a couple of things." Witness, the story
on the news tonight about the dolt who was claiming his dead dad's
benefits. (He made all of £2000!)

And finally: for every citizen who screams blue murder about the
stupidity of "this", there's another who will do so about "that", "that"
being the consequence of not doing "this", IYSWIM. They can't win.

Another John wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Society is really falling apart due to systemetically introduced
incompetence at every level.

There's certainly incompetence, which is due not to the "juniors" (who
deal with the public) but to the 3rd-rate managers, who are all that
public service can recruit; the better people go into business, where
the "rewards packages" are so much higher than those in the private
sector.

Except they are not.


(This tide may be turning, we may hope, as even the fat cats
gradually have to tighten their belts, weeping floods of tears into the
upholstery of their company Audis.)


Don't blame the authorities for all this excruciatingly petty
bureaucracy: blame the fraudsters who make it necessary. And the
arse-covering mentality of ALL management in almost ALL sectors, which
-- as you say -- is gradually hamstringing our society. ["gradually
hamstringing" -- a most unsatisfactory phrase, but best I can do off the
cuff.]


Why don't they just say that old people can pay less income tax instead?

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 13:00:29 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

This is the THIRD time this year that some stupid junior clerk in some
organisation that ought to know better has ****ed all over me despite
the fact that I have phoned, checked the rules and complied with them.

They know who you are.