I have been reading a few letters recently in the Caravan Club Magazine
where they are waxing lyrical about the dangers of plugging a power lead
into the power socket before plugging the other end into the caravan/camper
socket.

i.e. you are walking across wet grass holding a live cable.

Thinking about this, how risky is it?

I think most people will plug in and switch on a long extension lead before
unreeling it to a remote work site - trusting in the fact that the sockets
do not have any exposed live bits.
I think also few people walk back and switch off the extension lead each
time they stop using a power tool for a bit - unplugging the tool eliminates
the main risk.

The orange leads with the blue socket ends also do not have any exposed
pins - the socket is deeply recessed and covered by a spring loaded cap.

So is there an appreciable risk or are the CC letter writers being a little
to precious (as is their wont)?

Cheers

Dave R

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

David WE Roberts wrote:
I have been reading a few letters recently in the Caravan Club Magazine
where they are waxing lyrical about the dangers of plugging a power lead
into the power socket before plugging the other end into the
caravan/camper socket.

i.e. you are walking across wet grass holding a live cable.

Thinking about this, how risky is it?

If the socket is RCD protected as it should be, and, IIRC, must be in
the UK, not at all.

The risk *might* come if you flip the cover back on the extension lead
socket, and the rain gets into that socket, as against the rain getting
into the fixed socket, which should be fitted pointing down. Even then,
if the RCD is working correctly, there is no safety problem.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

David WE Roberts wrote:

some minor snippage

having been a caravanner and camper fopr many years I can categorically
state that in my experience ...

the CC letter writers being a little to precious (as is their wont)?

... is the right answer!

I've used campsites with a 'standard' electrical lead plugged into it,
socket end in a plastic bag, in a tent many times, and we caravan now
almost every weekend, certainly twice a month, and have never had an
issue at all _ever_ with the electrical safety of the leads. (The
campsite mains are a different story)

I can almost understand the concerns 'if I think about it' but
practically the concerns amount to 4/5ths of f'all .. Having said that,
I do plug the 'van in first before the mains socket, but then I do the
same with kettle/computer leads etc, always have done!

I seem to remember an article in a caravan magazine, many years ago,
that suggested there had been many accidents due to connecting wrongly,
but when investigated further it appeared that the leads were wired
wrongly and all the accidents had nothing to do with which end was
plugged in first!

--
Paul - xxx
"You know, all I wanna do is race .. and all I wanna do is win"
Mark Cavendish, World Champion 2011.

On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 16:40:19 -0000, Paul - xxx wrote:

David WE Roberts wrote:

some minor snippage

having been a caravanner and camper fopr many years I can categorically
state that in my experience ...

the CC letter writers being a little to precious (as is their wont)?

.. is the right answer!

I've used campsites with a 'standard' electrical lead plugged into it,
socket end in a plastic bag, in a tent many times, and we caravan now
almost every weekend, certainly twice a month, and have never had an
issue at all _ever_ with the electrical safety of the leads. (The
campsite mains are a different story)

I can almost understand the concerns 'if I think about it' but
practically the concerns amount to 4/5ths of f'all .. Having said that,
I do plug the 'van in first before the mains socket, but then I do the
same with kettle/computer leads etc, always have done!

I seem to remember an article in a caravan magazine, many years ago,
that suggested there had been many accidents due to connecting wrongly,
but when investigated further it appeared that the leads were wired
wrongly and all the accidents had nothing to do with which end was
plugged in first!

Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone know what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you shorted 5V to 12V?

I spotted an adapter from a certain ebay seller for a 12V graphics card power plug (with a molex on the other end). But they had it wired so the 12V AND the 5V from the power supply's molex were joined together to feed 12V to the graphics card. Needless to say I didn't purchase this adapter, but got one from elsewhere. I told the seller they were going to have some very unhappy customers, and when they didn't listen I told ebay there was a dangerous item for sale, but all they did was say they would monitor that seller's activity.

I'm thinking that the power supply would shut down when it realised the problem (although it may only be protected against shorting 12V to ground and not to another line), but if the 5V line got raised up towards 12V, a lot of electronics in the computer could be damaged or catch fire?

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

A bleached blonde and a natural blonde were on top of the Empire State Building.
How do you tell them apart?
The bleached blonde would never throw bread to the helicopters.

In message , David WE Roberts
writes
I have been reading a few letters recently in the Caravan Club Magazine
where they are waxing lyrical about the dangers of plugging a power
lead into the power socket before plugging the other end into the
caravan/camper socket.

i.e. you are walking across wet grass holding a live cable.

Thinking about this, how risky is it?

I think most people will plug in and switch on a long extension lead
before unreeling it to a remote work site - trusting in the fact that
the sockets do not have any exposed live bits.
I think also few people walk back and switch off the extension lead
each time they stop using a power tool for a bit - unplugging the tool
eliminates the main risk.

The orange leads with the blue socket ends also do not have any exposed
pins - the socket is deeply recessed and covered by a spring loaded cap.

So is there an appreciable risk or are the CC letter writers being a
little to precious (as is their wont)?

Cheers

Dave R



Minimal risk, RCD, if it is fitted, if it is working, should protect
you. IF SHOULD............

I would worry about the socket on the lead having moisture in it and
leaking through you to ground and also if you are walking the cable out
and running it through your hands you could come in contact with a live
wire if the cable was physically damaged.

For the sake of connecting it to the van first and walking the plug back
to the supply socket is it really worth the risk? No matter how small?
Many incidents occur due to the failure of more than one protection
device, i.e. faulty RCD and a faulty cable insulation or connector.
Talking of which you do regularly check the plug and socket on your
cable don't you?


--
Bill

On Dec 9, 4:18*pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
I have been reading a few letters recently in the Caravan Club Magazine
where they are waxing lyrical about the dangers of plugging a power lead
into the power socket before plugging the other end into the caravan/camper
socket.


The logical answer to all of the above is to press the test button on
the RCD before you plug in.

In article op.v58ebbkwytk5n5@i7-940,
Lieutenant Scott wrote:
Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone
know what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you shorted
5V to 12V?

Start a new thread.

--
*It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/12/2011 17:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In articleop.v58ebbkwytk5n5@i7-940,
Lieutenant wrote:
Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone
know what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you shorted
5V to 12V?

Start a new thread.

I would expect (without having tried it) that on a good day the fairly
mighty 5v supply would crowbar the 12v supply down hard and blow fuses
somewhere. It might in the process damage something in the PSU.

I have once had a PC PSU catch fire with the magic smoke and sparks
coming out of the back. Amazingly the PC was still running as I
scrabbled to unplug it from the wall. The smoke was unpleasant.

Regards,
Martin Brown

In message , Bill
writes
In message , David WE Roberts
writes
I have been reading a few letters recently in the Caravan Club
Magazine where they are waxing lyrical about the dangers of plugging a
power lead into the power socket before plugging the other end into
the caravan/camper socket.

i.e. you are walking across wet grass holding a live cable.

Thinking about this, how risky is it?

I think most people will plug in and switch on a long extension lead
before unreeling it to a remote work site - trusting in the fact that
the sockets do not have any exposed live bits.
I think also few people walk back and switch off the extension lead
each time they stop using a power tool for a bit - unplugging the tool
eliminates the main risk.

The orange leads with the blue socket ends also do not have any
exposed pins - the socket is deeply recessed and covered by a spring
loaded cap.

So is there an appreciable risk or are the CC letter writers being a
little to precious (as is their wont)?

Cheers

Dave R



Minimal risk, RCD, if it is fitted, if it is working, should protect
you. IF SHOULD............

General rule of safety - never rely on the safety device for your
safety.
I would worry about the socket on the lead having moisture in it and
leaking through you to ground and also if you are walking the cable out
and running it through your hands you could come in contact with a live
wire if the cable was physically damaged.

You can never predict totally what might happen and you should never
underestimate the capacity of Joe Bloggs or his children to do something
utterly unpredictable and stupid. So whilst we are all far too clever on
this group to put ourselves at any risk the best general advice if asked
is to say connect caravan end first.
For the sake of connecting it to the van first and walking the plug
back to the supply socket is it really worth the risk? No matter how
small? Many incidents occur due to the failure of more than one
protection device, i.e. faulty RCD and a faulty cable insulation or
connector. Talking of which you do regularly check the plug and socket
on your cable don't you?



--
hugh

I think its just that extension leads can get damaged and it pays to be
careful especially if you don't use it very often.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"David WE Roberts" wrote in message
...
I have been reading a few letters recently in the Caravan Club Magazine
where they are waxing lyrical about the dangers of plugging a power lead
into the power socket before plugging the other end into the caravan/camper
socket.

i.e. you are walking across wet grass holding a live cable.

Thinking about this, how risky is it?

I think most people will plug in and switch on a long extension lead
before unreeling it to a remote work site - trusting in the fact that the
sockets do not have any exposed live bits.
I think also few people walk back and switch off the extension lead each
time they stop using a power tool for a bit - unplugging the tool
eliminates the main risk.

The orange leads with the blue socket ends also do not have any exposed
pins - the socket is deeply recessed and covered by a spring loaded cap.

So is there an appreciable risk or are the CC letter writers being a
little to precious (as is their wont)?

Cheers

Dave R

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Yes, me too, then it went bang and stopped. There was ahole in one of the
capacitors inside with some foul smelling gunk all over the place.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 09/12/2011 17:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In articleop.v58ebbkwytk5n5@i7-940,
Lieutenant wrote:
Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone
know what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you shorted
5V to 12V?

Start a new thread.

I would expect (without having tried it) that on a good day the fairly
mighty 5v supply would crowbar the 12v supply down hard and blow fuses
somewhere. It might in the process damage something in the PSU.

I have once had a PC PSU catch fire with the magic smoke and sparks coming
out of the back. Amazingly the PC was still running as I scrabbled to
unplug it from the wall. The smoke was unpleasant.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 09:18:41 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

The logical answer to all of the above is to press the test button on
the RCD before you plug in.

Ensuring that the RCD is in the on position before you press the test
button and when you do the RCD trips.

I'm in the "lazy" plug into van first walk to power point, laying the
cable, test supply as above then connect, switching it on. I might
have switched off the CU in the van and have polarity indicators as
well to check before finally powering up the van.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David WE Roberts" wrote:

I have been reading a few letters recently in the Caravan Club Magazine
where they are waxing lyrical about the dangers of plugging a power lead
into the power socket before plugging the other end into the
caravan/camper socket.

i.e. you are walking across wet grass holding a live cable.

I think you mean e.g., not i.e.


No - camping in the UK I do mean "i.e."

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On Dec 9, 5:08 pm, Bill wrote:
For the sake of connecting it to the van first and walking the plug back
to the supply socket is it really worth the risk?

..It's less work to do it safely:

..a) carry whole cable to the supply point, plug in, walk back to van
..carrying decreasing weight of cable, plug in at van

..vs

..b) plug in at van, carry decreasing weight of cablr to the supply
..point, plug in, walk back to van carrying nothing

OTOH it is sometimes neater (and safer) to start from the supply point, and
unreel as you go back towards the van, leaving the extra cable coiled neatly
just under the van instead of by the supply point, where it might create a
trip hazard.

Unless you have a very (very) long cable, the weight of the cable isn't an
issue.

Also, as we keep the camper on the drive and keep it powered up all the
time, simplest way to uncouple if going out for a drive is to just unplug
from the side of the camper and hang the live end over the side gate until
we get back :-)
Lazy, but we haven't fried yet.

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Paul - xxx" wrote in message
...
David WE Roberts wrote:

some minor snippage

having been a caravanner and camper fopr many years I can categorically
state that in my experience ...

the CC letter writers being a little to precious (as is their wont)?

.. is the right answer!

I've used campsites with a 'standard' electrical lead plugged into it,
socket end in a plastic bag,


What do you need a plastic bag for?

dennis@home wrote:



"Paul - xxx" wrote in message
...
David WE Roberts wrote:

some minor snippage

having been a caravanner and camper fopr many years I can
categorically state that in my experience ...

the CC letter writers being a little to precious (as is their
wont)?

.. is the right answer!

I've used campsites with a 'standard' electrical lead plugged into
it, socket end in a plastic bag,


What do you need a plastic bag for?

No idea, the wife insisted on it .. I went along with it for the quiet
life.

--
Paul - xxx
"You know, all I wanna do is race .. and all I wanna do is win"
Mark Cavendish, World Champion 2011.

David WE Roberts wrote:


"Owain" wrote in message
.
.. On Dec 9, 5:08 pm, Bill wrote:
For the sake of connecting it to the van first and walking the plug
back to the supply socket is it really worth the risk?

.It's less work to do it safely:

.a) carry whole cable to the supply point, plug in, walk back to van
.carrying decreasing weight of cable, plug in at van

.vs

.b) plug in at van, carry decreasing weight of cablr to the supply
.point, plug in, walk back to van carrying nothing

OTOH it is sometimes neater (and safer) to start from the supply
point, and unreel as you go back towards the van, leaving the extra
cable coiled neatly just under the van instead of by the supply
point, where it might create a trip hazard.

Unless you have a very (very) long cable, the weight of the cable
isn't an issue.

Also, as we keep the camper on the drive and keep it powered up all
the time, simplest way to uncouple if going out for a drive is to
just unplug from the side of the camper and hang the live end over
the side gate until we get back :-) Lazy, but we haven't fried yet.

We used to do that in our last house .. till one week we came back
early and found next doors caravan plugged into it to charge their
battery! It wouldn't have been a problem if they'd asked, but it
appears they used it every time we went away for the weekend, and never
asked us once!

We do it again, now we have no neighbours!

--
Paul - xxx
"You know, all I wanna do is race .. and all I wanna do is win"
Mark Cavendish, World Champion 2011.

"Paul - xxx" wrote in message
...


We do it again, now we have no neighbours!

So where are they buried?

On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 17:31:13 -0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article op.v58ebbkwytk5n5@i7-940,
Lieutenant Scott wrote:
Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone
know what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you shorted
5V to 12V?

Start a new thread.

Yes sir, immediately sir!

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

A man is a person who will pay two dollars for a one-dollar item he wants.
A woman will pay one dollar for a two-dollar item that she doesn't want.

On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 18:04:45 -0000, Martin Brown wrote:

On 09/12/2011 17:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In articleop.v58ebbkwytk5n5@i7-940,
Lieutenant wrote:
Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone
know what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you shorted
5V to 12V?

Start a new thread.

I would expect (without having tried it) that on a good day the fairly
mighty 5v supply would crowbar the 12v supply down hard and blow fuses
somewhere. It might in the process damage something in the PSU.

I have once had a PC PSU catch fire with the magic smoke and sparks
coming out of the back. Amazingly the PC was still running as I
scrabbled to unplug it from the wall. The smoke was unpleasant.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Well I can't think of anything else I can do. The seller won't believe me and ebay are clueless. I see nobody has bought the offending adaptor yet, even though it's been on sale for months, so perhaps everyone buying that kind of thing knows what they're doing. All I got from the seller was "if your power supply is good it will handle it".

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

What's soft and warm when you go to bed, but hard and stiff when you wake up?
Vomit.

David WE Roberts wrote:
I have been reading a few letters recently in the Caravan Club
Magazine where they are waxing lyrical about the dangers of plugging
a power lead into the power socket before plugging the other end into
the caravan/camper socket.

i.e. you are walking across wet grass holding a live cable.

Thinking about this, how risky is it?

If it's an RCD supply then it's quite safe.

It probably should be a TT supply but there are easier ways to kill or
injure yourself eg towing a caravan:-)

--
Adam

David WE Roberts wrote:
I have been reading a few letters recently in the Caravan Club Magazine
where they are waxing lyrical about the dangers of plugging a power lead
into the power socket before plugging the other end into the caravan/camper
socket.

Well, if they're plugging it into a /socket/ at the caravan end, then,
yes, it's dangerous, as they're carrying a live /plug/ with live
exposed prongs.

I presume you really mean plugging the other end into the caravan /
plug/
rather than what I used to see in the '70s - an extension lead with a
plug on each end and the caravan energised by plugging into one of
its sockets.

JGH

On 10/12/2011 16:53, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 18:04:45 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 09/12/2011 17:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In articleop.v58ebbkwytk5n5@i7-940,
Lieutenant wrote:
Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone
know what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you shorted
5V to 12V?

Start a new thread.

I would expect (without having tried it) that on a good day the fairly
mighty 5v supply would crowbar the 12v supply down hard and blow fuses
somewhere. It might in the process damage something in the PSU.

I have once had a PC PSU catch fire with the magic smoke and sparks
coming out of the back. Amazingly the PC was still running as I
scrabbled to unplug it from the wall. The smoke was unpleasant.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Well I can't think of anything else I can do. The seller won't believe
me and ebay are clueless. I see nobody has bought the offending adaptor
yet, even though it's been on sale for months, so perhaps everyone
buying that kind of thing knows what they're doing. All I got from the
seller was "if your power supply is good it will handle it".

Have you got a link so we can have a look at the item?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Dec 9, 4:18*pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
I have been reading a few letters recently in the Caravan Club Magazine
where they are waxing lyrical about the dangers of plugging a power lead
into the power socket before plugging the other end into the caravan/camper
socket.

i.e. you are walking across wet grass holding a live cable.

Wear a pair of lined wellies to keep your feet good and cosy. and your
body elecrically isolated from the ground. Handle any live cable or
equipment in your right hand, keep your left hand tucked behind your
back and under your belt.

Thinking about this, how risky is it?

A mains shock through the right arm is quite invigorating.

I think most people will plug in and switch on a long extension lead before
unreeling it to a remote work site - trusting in the fact that the sockets
do not have any exposed live bits.
I think also few people walk back and switch off the extension lead each
time they stop using a power tool for a bit - unplugging the tool eliminates
the main risk.

The orange leads with the blue socket ends also do not have any exposed
pins - the socket is deeply recessed and covered by a spring loaded cap.

So is there an appreciable risk or are the CC letter writers being a little
to precious (as is their wont)?

It's your choice, but an electric shock is not the way to start a
holiday.. If you do get zapped it is near impossible to let go and
the only thing you may be able to do is shuffle away so think in which
direction you need to fall to break the contact. When it happens, you
may not be so clued up as what is going on and may fail to take
appropriate action. Experience helps, but is not advisable to
practice mains shocks, better to practise safe handling. Check your
leads before you go.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 00:15:58 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 10/12/2011 16:53, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 18:04:45 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 09/12/2011 17:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In articleop.v58ebbkwytk5n5@i7-940,
Lieutenant wrote:
Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone
know what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you shorted
5V to 12V?

Start a new thread.

I would expect (without having tried it) that on a good day the fairly
mighty 5v supply would crowbar the 12v supply down hard and blow fuses
somewhere. It might in the process damage something in the PSU.

I have once had a PC PSU catch fire with the magic smoke and sparks
coming out of the back. Amazingly the PC was still running as I
scrabbled to unplug it from the wall. The smoke was unpleasant.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Well I can't think of anything else I can do. The seller won't believe
me and ebay are clueless. I see nobody has bought the offending adaptor
yet, even though it's been on sale for months, so perhaps everyone
buying that kind of thing knows what they're doing. All I got from the
seller was "if your power supply is good it will handle it".

Have you got a link so we can have a look at the item?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170415594380

Interestingly, she's changed her ebay ID since I looked a week ago.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

The success of the "Wonder Bra" for under-endowed women has encouraged the designers to come out with a bra for over-endowed women.
It's called the "Sheep Dog Bra"- it rounds them up and points them in the right direction.

On 12/12/2011 03:15, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 00:15:58 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 10/12/2011 16:53, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 18:04:45 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 09/12/2011 17:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In articleop.v58ebbkwytk5n5@i7-940,
Lieutenant wrote:
Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone
know what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you
shorted
5V to 12V?

Start a new thread.

I would expect (without having tried it) that on a good day the fairly
mighty 5v supply would crowbar the 12v supply down hard and blow fuses
somewhere. It might in the process damage something in the PSU.

I have once had a PC PSU catch fire with the magic smoke and sparks
coming out of the back. Amazingly the PC was still running as I
scrabbled to unplug it from the wall. The smoke was unpleasant.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Well I can't think of anything else I can do. The seller won't believe
me and ebay are clueless. I see nobody has bought the offending adaptor
yet, even though it's been on sale for months, so perhaps everyone
buying that kind of thing knows what they're doing. All I got from the
seller was "if your power supply is good it will handle it".

Have you got a link so we can have a look at the item?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170415594380

Interestingly, she's changed her ebay ID since I looked a week ago.

Yup that does look a bit suspect - I can't see exactly where the wires
are going on the 8 pin connector, but since it should only have 12V and
ground connections (Pins 1 - 3 12V, the rest GND), the fact that the 5V
is terminated at all on the 4 pin molex suggests the picture at least is
wrong.

Interestingly if you search for completed listings with that title,
there are none. So it may be they have never actually sold one!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Dec 9, 4:48*pm, "Lieutenant Scott" wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 16:40:19 -0000, Paul - xxx wrote:









David WE Roberts wrote:

some minor snippage

having been a caravanner and camper fopr many years I can categorically
state that in my experience ...

the CC letter writers being a little to precious (as is their wont)?

.. is the right answer!

I've used campsites with a 'standard' electrical lead plugged into it,
socket end in a plastic bag, in a tent many times, and we caravan now
almost every weekend, certainly twice a month, and have never had an
issue at all _ever_ with the electrical safety of the leads. *(The
campsite mains are a different story)

I can almost understand the concerns 'if I think about it' but
practically the concerns amount to 4/5ths of f'all .. Having said that,
I do plug the 'van in first before the mains socket, but then I do the
same with kettle/computer leads etc, always have done!

I seem to remember an article in a caravan magazine, many years ago,
that suggested there had been many accidents due to connecting wrongly,
but when investigated further it appeared that the leads were wired
wrongly and all the accidents had nothing to do with which end was
plugged in first!

Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone know what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you shorted 5V to 12V?

I spotted an adapter from a certain ebay seller for a 12V graphics card power plug (with a molex on the other end). *But they had it wired so the 12V AND the 5V from the power supply's molex were joined together to feed 12V to the graphics card. *Needless to say I didn't purchase this adapter, but got one from elsewhere. *I told the seller they were going to have some very unhappy customers, and when they didn't listen I told ebay there was a dangerous item for sale, but all they did was say they would monitor that seller's activity.

I'm thinking that the power supply would shut down when it realised the problem (although it may only be protected against shorting 12V to ground and not to another line), but if the 5V line got raised up towards 12V, a lot of electronics in the computer could be damaged or catch fire?

Depends on the individual computer and the componets, I think one of
the first things that would happen is that any electrolytic capacitors
on the 5v rail would explode,
I doubt they'd catch fire, this may well indeed blow the Power supply
fuse, other componnets might blow too but I don;t see a serious fire
risk, but serious damage
to the computer would be likely, and I doubt it would be economically
repairable repearable .


--http://petersparrots.comhttp://petersphotos.com

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How do you tell them apart?
The bleached blonde would never throw bread to the helicopters.

On 13/12/2011 11:35, whisky-dave wrote:
On Dec 9, 4:48 pm, "Lieutenant wrote:

Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone

know what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you
shorted 5V to 12V?

Depends on the individual computer and the componets, I think one of
the first things that would happen is that any electrolytic capacitors
on the 5v rail would explode,
I doubt they'd catch fire, this may well indeed blow the Power supply
fuse, other componnets might blow too but I don;t see a serious fire
risk, but serious damage
to the computer would be likely, and I doubt it would be economically
repairable repearable .

If at least one component is properly designed (not guaranteed) then the
first thing that should happen is that a crowbar protection circuit will
pull the 5v rail down to 0V at very high current (and take the 12v with
it). This could damage the PSU but should leave the motherboard unharmed
- at least in theory. Practice is not always so clear cut.

I would expect the PSU to blow a fuse or go into over current shutdown.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:46:38 -0000, Martin Brown wrote:

On 13/12/2011 11:35, whisky-dave wrote:
On Dec 9, 4:48 pm, "Lieutenant wrote:

Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone

know what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you
shorted 5V to 12V?

Depends on the individual computer and the componets, I think one of
the first things that would happen is that any electrolytic capacitors
on the 5v rail would explode,
I doubt they'd catch fire, this may well indeed blow the Power supply
fuse, other componnets might blow too but I don;t see a serious fire
risk, but serious damage
to the computer would be likely, and I doubt it would be economically
repairable repearable .

If at least one component is properly designed (not guaranteed) then the
first thing that should happen is that a crowbar protection circuit will
pull the 5v rail down to 0V at very high current (and take the 12v with
it). This could damage the PSU but should leave the motherboard unharmed
- at least in theory. Practice is not always so clear cut.

I would expect the PSU to blow a fuse or go into over current shutdown.

Regards,
Martin Brown

I'm inclined to buy one and try it on some old junk parts just to see what happens, although I think the seller might remember me after the messages I sent :-)

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Excuse me sir, are you playing the bagpipes or sexually abusing an octopus?

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 22:10:55 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 12/12/2011 03:15, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 00:15:58 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 10/12/2011 16:53, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 18:04:45 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 09/12/2011 17:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip

I would expect (without having tried it) that on a good day the fairly
mighty 5v supply would crowbar the 12v supply down hard and blow fuses
somewhere. It might in the process damage something in the PSU.

I have once had a PC PSU catch fire with the magic smoke and sparks
coming out of the back. Amazingly the PC was still running as I
scrabbled to unplug it from the wall. The smoke was unpleasant.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Well I can't think of anything else I can do. The seller won't believe
me and ebay are clueless. I see nobody has bought the offending adaptor
yet, even though it's been on sale for months, so perhaps everyone
buying that kind of thing knows what they're doing. All I got from the
seller was "if your power supply is good it will handle it".

Have you got a link so we can have a look at the item?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170415594380

Interestingly, she's changed her ebay ID since I looked a week ago.

Yup that does look a bit suspect - I can't see exactly where the wires
are going on the 8 pin connector, but since it should only have 12V and
ground connections (Pins 1 - 3 12V, the rest GND), the fact that the 5V
is terminated at all on the 4 pin molex suggests the picture at least is
wrong.

Interestingly if you search for completed listings with that title,
there are none. So it may be they have never actually sold one!

Ebay support are typically dopey buggers with no technical knowledge, so completely unhelpful. They can't even write or understand plain English, or even answer the question asked, they just paste completely unrelated stock answers.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

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On 13/12/2011 20:52, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:46:38 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 13/12/2011 11:35, whisky-dave wrote:
On Dec 9, 4:48 pm, "Lieutenant wrote:

Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone

know what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you
shorted 5V to 12V?

Depends on the individual computer and the componets, I think one of
the first things that would happen is that any electrolytic capacitors
on the 5v rail would explode,
I doubt they'd catch fire, this may well indeed blow the Power supply
fuse, other componnets might blow too but I don;t see a serious fire
risk, but serious damage
to the computer would be likely, and I doubt it would be economically
repairable repearable .

If at least one component is properly designed (not guaranteed) then the
first thing that should happen is that a crowbar protection circuit will
pull the 5v rail down to 0V at very high current (and take the 12v with
it). This could damage the PSU but should leave the motherboard unharmed
- at least in theory. Practice is not always so clear cut.

I would expect the PSU to blow a fuse or go into over current shutdown.

Regards,
Martin Brown

I'm inclined to buy one and try it on some old junk parts just to see
what happens, although I think the seller might remember me after the
messages I sent :-)

Its possible that the real thing does not resemble the picture anyway!


--
Cheers,

John.

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| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Sorry to hijack this thread, but on the subject of safety does anyone know
what would happen to a computer or its power supply if you shorted 5V to 12V?

Having had this happen to me some years ago, I can tell you the
controller chips on the HDD exploded with some popping.
Was caused by a faultily-wired Y-splitter taking power to two HDDs -
luckily the second one wasn't connected and the victim HDD wasn't
important.
The PSU and the rest of the cards/components survived ok, which rather
surprised me.

On Dec 9, 4:18*pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
i.e. you are walking across wet grass holding a live cable.
Thinking about this, how risky is it?

Test the RCD works - because you do not know its history.
Check the flex - as you would anywhere.

Next article will be PAT testing of caravan flex hookup cables :-)

Wonder if they make as much fuss over the risk of LPG... plenty of
portable heaters get used in houses (condensation & ventilation
aside), but how many people know an LPG leak can build under
floorboards until a spark from a wall socket ignites it. Caravans have
floor vents to avoid this, but I suspect quite a few people think LPG
like natural gas just goes up. Houses have floor vents, but that may
not stop the LEL being reached

On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 16:18:15 -0000, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:

So is there an appreciable risk or are the CC letter writers being a little
to precious (as is their wont)?

Definitely.

On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 20:05:05 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

I think its just that extension leads can get damaged and it pays to be
careful especially if you don't use it very often.
Brian

When you pick it up and it tingles, it's time to repair it.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

If the Pope goes #2, does that make it "Holy ****"?

On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 20:24:45 -0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 09:18:41 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

The logical answer to all of the above is to press the test button on
the RCD before you plug in.

Ensuring that the RCD is in the on position before you press the test
button and when you do the RCD trips.

I'm in the "lazy" plug into van first walk to power point, laying the
cable, test supply as above then connect, switching it on. I might
have switched off the CU in the van and have polarity indicators as
well to check before finally powering up the van.

Anyone would think you're wiring up a nuclear power plant.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

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We got to go to divorce court with them. It was like a game show. My mom won the house and car. We're all excited. My dad got some luggage.