I have an aluminium-framed window in a bedroom. The elaborate hingeing
mechanism has long been severely rusted-up and broken apart. It is a
similar emchanism as found on many UPVC windows, fitted in the sides and
hidden when the window is closed. The mechanism is so rusted solid and
broken, that I cannot get the window closed. There is a 1" gap all the way
around it.

If I had the money, I'd replace the window with a UPVC one. However, times
are tight, so I'm looking to fill the 1" crack around the window so that it
is strong, neat, and weather-proof.

Here is a photo:
http://tinyurl.com/bmjrzc3


I thought about using expanding foam, but I don't want to use anything too
permanent (such as car body filler) just in case I bump into someone who
has the ability to repair the hinge mechanisms, or install a new hinge of
some kind. Can anyone think of anything else I could stuff in there, that
would be more suitable? I want the job to look fairly neat, so that, at a
glance, the window doesn't look too obviously faulty, after it's painted.

At the same time,

Thank you,

Al

"AL_n" wrote in message ...

I have an aluminium-framed window in a bedroom. The elaborate hingeing
mechanism has long been severely rusted-up and broken apart. It is a
similar emchanism as found on many UPVC windows, fitted in the sides and
hidden when the window is closed. The mechanism is so rusted solid and
broken, that I cannot get the window closed. There is a 1" gap all the way
around it.

If I had the money, I'd replace the window with a UPVC one. However, times
are tight, so I'm looking to fill the 1" crack around the window so that it
is strong, neat, and weather-proof.

Here is a photo:
http://tinyurl.com/bmjrzc3


I thought about using expanding foam, but I don't want to use anything too
permanent (such as car body filler) just in case I bump into someone who
has the ability to repair the hinge mechanisms, or install a new hinge of
some kind. Can anyone think of anything else I could stuff in there, that
would be more suitable? I want the job to look fairly neat, so that, at a
glance, the window doesn't look too obviously faulty, after it's painted.

At the same time,

Thank you,

Al

--

Expanding foam. Let it go off, then trim back to frame size

AWEM

On 25/11/2011 14:18, AL_n wrote:
I have an aluminium-framed window in a bedroom. The elaborate hingeing
mechanism has long been severely rusted-up and broken apart. It is a
similar emchanism as found on many UPVC windows, fitted in the sides and
hidden when the window is closed. The mechanism is so rusted solid and
broken, that I cannot get the window closed. There is a 1" gap all the way
around it.

If I had the money, I'd replace the window with a UPVC one. However, times
are tight, so I'm looking to fill the 1" crack around the window so that it
is strong, neat, and weather-proof.

Here is a photo:
http://tinyurl.com/bmjrzc3


I thought about using expanding foam, but I don't want to use anything too
permanent (such as car body filler) just in case I bump into someone who
has the ability to repair the hinge mechanisms, or install a new hinge of
some kind. Can anyone think of anything else I could stuff in there, that
would be more suitable? I want the job to look fairly neat, so that, at a
glance, the window doesn't look too obviously faulty, after it's painted.

At the same time,

Thank you,

Al

I'd stuff bubble wrap in there. To hell with what it looks like

In article , AL_n
writes

Can anyone think of anything else I could stuff in there, that
would be more suitable? I want the job to look fairly neat

Strips of wood planed to slightly larger than the gap and tapped into
place with a hammer? Once painted over would look neat.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article , AL_n
writes
I have an aluminium-framed window in a bedroom. The elaborate hingeing
mechanism has long been severely rusted-up and broken apart. It is a
similar emchanism as found on many UPVC windows, fitted in the sides and
hidden when the window is closed. The mechanism is so rusted solid and
broken, that I cannot get the window closed. There is a 1" gap all the way
around it.

If I had the money, I'd replace the window with a UPVC one. However, times
are tight, so I'm looking to fill the 1" crack around the window so that it
is strong, neat, and weather-proof.

Here is a photo:
http://tinyurl.com/bmjrzc3

I thought about using expanding foam, but I don't want to use anything too
permanent (such as car body filler) just in case I bump into someone who
has the ability to repair the hinge mechanisms, or install a new hinge of
some kind. Can anyone think of anything else I could stuff in there, that
would be more suitable? I want the job to look fairly neat, so that, at a
glance, the window doesn't look too obviously faulty, after it's painted.

Words fail me, this is possibly the daftest thing I have seen in my
puff.

By whatever means, that moving light needs pulled in to a close gap at
which point it can be sealed sensibly. However rusted the hinges are you
will be able to pull them in by force. If you can gain access to the
outside then drill and bolt through to the inside frame (or spreader
bar) at multiple points and progressively tighten to bring it in. Even
if you don't have access and can't borrow a ladder then there are still
ways to do this, just give a few more details of the situation so
solutions can be offered.

I have assumed that this is at height and so you don't want to cut away
or otherwise remove the hinges and refit the opening light as fixed.

I know times are hard but please do not consider such a horrendous
bodge.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 25/11/2011 15:41, fred wrote:
In article , AL_n
writes
I have an aluminium-framed window in a bedroom. The elaborate hingeing
mechanism has long been severely rusted-up and broken apart. It is a
similar emchanism as found on many UPVC windows, fitted in the sides and
hidden when the window is closed. The mechanism is so rusted solid and
broken, that I cannot get the window closed. There is a 1" gap all the
way
around it.

If I had the money, I'd replace the window with a UPVC one. However,
times
are tight, so I'm looking to fill the 1" crack around the window so
that it
is strong, neat, and weather-proof.

Here is a photo:
http://tinyurl.com/bmjrzc3

I thought about using expanding foam, but I don't want to use anything
too
permanent (such as car body filler) just in case I bump into someone who
has the ability to repair the hinge mechanisms, or install a new hinge of
some kind. Can anyone think of anything else I could stuff in there, that
would be more suitable? I want the job to look fairly neat, so that, at a
glance, the window doesn't look too obviously faulty, after it's painted.

Words fail me, this is possibly the daftest thing I have seen in my puff.

By whatever means, that moving light needs pulled in to a close gap at
which point it can be sealed sensibly. However rusted the hinges are you
will be able to pull them in by force. If you can gain access to the
outside then drill and bolt through to the inside frame (or spreader
bar) at multiple points and progressively tighten to bring it in. Even
if you don't have access and can't borrow a ladder then there are still
ways to do this, just give a few more details of the situation so
solutions can be offered.

I have assumed that this is at height and so you don't want to cut away
or otherwise remove the hinges and refit the opening light as fixed.

I know times are hard but please do not consider such a horrendous bodge.

Search "window hinge" on Screwfix's website.

i.e.
Friction Hinge Side Hung 300 x 13mm Pack of 2 - £6.39 inc VAT
http://www.screwfix.com/p/friction-h...ack-of-2/34884


Most are less than £10 though whether they can be fixed to this window
or can be modified is not certain. (Could suppliers show engineering
drawings of what they sell please?)

--
Adrian C

Thanks to all for the suggestions...


fred wrote in :

By whatever means, that moving light needs pulled in to a close gap at
which point it can be sealed sensibly. However rusted the hinges are you
will be able to pull them in by force.

I have tried that. It's not quite as feasable as you might think. The
opening light not only needs pulling inwards, but also need lifting 1" in
order to get it to go where it is supposed to go. I even went up a ladder
and tried levering the opening light upwards with a long crow bar, at risk
of bending the frame and breaking the glass, but there was not even a hint
of movement. I can open and close the window, virtually as it should do,
despite the hinging bars being broken at the pivot points, but there is no
way to get the top of the opening light to sit 1" further back, where it is
supposed to sit. (That's why that vertical gap in my photo is virtually
parallel, rather than tapering towards the top.)

I tried pushing and pulling - from inside the house and from outside, as
hard as I dare (the aluminium frame is rather flexible, and I don't want to
break the glass) but it won't budge. The only way I can imagine being able
to get it to close would be to grind the hinge mechanisms off each side
with an angle grinder, but you can't even get an angle grinder into the
confined space to grind away the most rusted part, which is right at the
top of the opening part on each side.

Thanks,

Al

Adrian C wrote in
:


Search "window hinge" on Screwfix's website.

i.e.
Friction Hinge Side Hung 300 x 13mm Pack of 2 - œ6.39 inc VAT
http://www.screwfix.com/p/friction-h...13mm-pack-of-2
/34884


Most are less than £10 though whether they can be fixed to this window
or can be modified is not certain. (Could suppliers show engineering
drawings of what they sell please?)


Thanks... I wondered about this possible solution. The hinges in your link
above look similar to the ones installed. None of them are identical
though, because my window's hinge mechanism has some kind of provision for
making the top of the window move outwards slightly as it is being opened
from the bottom. There is a "short arm" at the very top, which none of
those in your link seem to have.

In any case, it looks as though it would be very dificult to remove the
jammed, rusted, broken old hinge mechanisms, because of the heavy rusting
and also because they are difficult to get at with an angle grinder.

I dare say a professional could do the job, but they would want £££, I dare
say.

Al

In article , AL_n
writes

Thanks to all for the suggestions...


fred wrote in :

By whatever means, that moving light needs pulled in to a close gap at
which point it can be sealed sensibly. However rusted the hinges are you
will be able to pull them in by force.

I have tried that. It's not quite as feasable as you might think. The
opening light not only needs pulling inwards, but also need lifting 1" in
order to get it to go where it is supposed to go. I even went up a ladder
and tried levering the opening light upwards with a long crow bar, at risk
of bending the frame and breaking the glass, but there was not even a hint
of movement. I can open and close the window, virtually as it should do,
despite the hinging bars being broken at the pivot points, but there is no
way to get the top of the opening light to sit 1" further back, where it is
supposed to sit. (That's why that vertical gap in my photo is virtually
parallel, rather than tapering towards the top.)

I tried pushing and pulling - from inside the house and from outside, as
hard as I dare (the aluminium frame is rather flexible, and I don't want to
break the glass) but it won't budge. The only way I can imagine being able
to get it to close would be to grind the hinge mechanisms off each side
with an angle grinder, but you can't even get an angle grinder into the
confined space to grind away the most rusted part, which is right at the
top of the opening part on each side.

Thanks for feeding back on the difficulties.

I think there's still some mileage on doing it right which would
probably now mean an attack on the hinges, releasing the moving light,
tidying it all up when dismounted and reinstating/sealing it without the
hinges in the way.

If you're going this way then find a way to secure the moving light
before releasing it. I would drill a couple of holes in the upper part
of the frame and moving light and fix them together with a safety strap
of fixing strap[1] or similar using coarse self tappers, leaving enough
slack in the strap to allow the window to open for what is to come.

I haven't got an Ali window to look at but you say that the hinges are
similar to those used on uPVC windows. With those they fabricate the
frames then hinges are slotted into recesses and just a couple of screws
hold these into the moving and fixed parts. Is this the case with yours?

If so then I think there is mileage in safely tethering the moving light
then trying to release the fixings on the hinges, either by unscrewing
if possible or by drilling our the screws (prob with window open to
fullest extent).

If that fails I'd consider cutting through the hinge bars themselves, ok
angle grinder access may not be good for all points but don't forget the
faithful hacksaw blade as a fallback for the difficult bits, hand held
with end wrapped in duct tape to provide hand protection. It may take
some time but you will get there (or use reciprocating power saw with
metal blade if avail).

If this works then remove the scrap hinges and look at screwing the
moving light back into the hole with self tappers as a fixed light.

The idea behind doing it right is that it will be neat and the place
could be tidy or resold without further work and the cost element is
just time, hopefully half a day.

Trying to seal it with an inch gap isn't really on, foam is about as
good as you'll get but it isn't properly waterproof and with the large
external gap it will soak up water and be a mess.

HTH

[1] http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p39724
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

fred wrote in :

In article , AL_n
writes

Tyou say that the hinges are
similar to those used on uPVC windows. With those they fabricate the
frames then hinges are slotted into recesses and just a couple of
screws hold these into the moving and fixed parts. Is this the case
with yours?

Yes, as far as I can see; it looks that way.

If so then I think there is mileage in safely tethering the moving
light then trying to release the fixings on the hinges, either by
unscrewing if possible or by drilling our the screws (prob with window
open to fullest extent).

If that fails I'd consider cutting through the hinge bars themselves,
ok angle grinder access may not be good for all points but don't
forget the faithful hacksaw blade as a fallback for the difficult
bits, hand held with end wrapped in duct tape to provide hand
protection. It may take some time but you will get there (or use
reciprocating power saw with metal blade if avail).

If this works then remove the scrap hinges and look at screwing the
moving light back into the hole with self tappers as a fixed light.

The idea behind doing it right is that it will be neat and the place
could be tidy or resold without further work and the cost element is
just time, hopefully half a day.

Trying to seal it with an inch gap isn't really on, foam is about as
good as you'll get but it isn't properly waterproof and with the large
external gap it will soak up water and be a mess.

HTH

Thanks - I can see the sense in your approach - particularly as I am
thinking of selling the house soon, and a bodged-looking window would
create a bad impression. I will have another crack at removing the siezed
hinges. I cannot reach the vital bits with my 4" angle grinder. My best
chance of making progress seems to be to drill out the 4 screws I can
see. My drill bits are not exactly cutting into them like a knife through
butter - they are getting blunt and I'm running out of bits. I've never
looked into tungsten carbide drill bits. Perhaps one of those would worth
shelling out for. ISTR they aren't cheap.

Al

What is the most cost-effective type of drill bit for drilling out siezed
steel screws? I don;t know where my high-speed steel drill bits were made,
but they are getting blunt as fast as I can replace them...

I've seen tungsten carbide bits, but I think they were designed only for
glass and ceramic tiles...

TIA

Al

In article , AL_n
writes

What is the most cost-effective type of drill bit for drilling out siezed
steel screws? I don;t know where my high-speed steel drill bits were made,
but they are getting blunt as fast as I can replace them...

You only need to drill just larger than the size of the shaft to
separate the head from the shaft and release it. For a typical screw of
that type you only need to use a 3.5 or 4mm drill. It will part when you
go through the head and hit the shaft.

Drilling out a posi screw will likely do damage to the tip of the drill
so I'd happily use a cheap standard bit for something like this and I
routinely have a stock in that I don't care about butchering, pack of 10
for 2 quid or so from a market or CPC. Then you wont care if you scrap 2
or more in the process.

I've seen tungsten carbide bits, but I think they were designed only for
glass and ceramic tiles...

For domestic use yes although they can be reground for specialist
purposes.

I wouldn't waste good money on a specialist bit for this job, it's only
a few mm depth of drilling so you can just power through.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Nov 25, 9:31*pm, "AL_n" wrote:
Adrian C wrote :



Search "window hinge" on Screwfix's website.

i.e.
Friction Hinge Side Hung 300 x 13mm Pack of 2 - œ6.39 inc VAT
http://www.screwfix.com/p/friction-h...13mm-pack-of-2
/34884

Most are less than £10 though whether they can be fixed to this window
or can be modified is not certain. (Could suppliers show engineering
drawings of what they sell please?)

Thanks... I wondered about this possible solution. The hinges in your link
above look similar to the ones installed. None of them are identical
though, because my window's hinge mechanism has some kind of provision for
making the top of the window move outwards slightly as it is being opened
from the bottom. There is a "short arm" at the very top, which none of
those in your link seem to have.

In any case, it looks as though it would be very dificult to remove the
jammed, rusted, broken old hinge mechanisms, because of the heavy rusting
and also because they are difficult to get at with an angle grinder.

Get a thick block of wood and bang the hell out of it up against the
inside bottom rail.

Squirt some easing oil on the hinges as best you can first.

Rip the hinges out and take the casement to a glaziers. He will get
you the right hinges.

They are made of SS and the ally won't rust much even with the steel
contact. What has rusted is the screws put in the hinges. They should
have been SS too. Obviously they aren't.

"AL_n" wrote in message
...

What is the most cost-effective type of drill bit for drilling out siezed
steel screws? I don;t know where my high-speed steel drill bits were made,
but they are getting blunt as fast as I can replace them...

I've seen tungsten carbide bits, but I think they were designed only for
glass and ceramic tiles...


cheap drill bits are probably not as hard as the case hardened screws ....
either put up with it and bash through, or buy a boron bit, they seems much
harder.
There are also specific ones for removing spot welds, which would probably
be fine.
http://www.weldshop.co.uk/spotweld-h...s-etc-23-c.asp

"Rick Hughes" wrote in
:

cheap drill bits are probably not as hard as the case hardened screws
.... either put up with it and bash through, or buy a boron bit, they
seems much harder.
There are also specific ones for removing spot welds, which would
probably be fine.
http://www.weldshop.co.uk/spotweld-h...s-etc-23-c.asp


Thanks... I ended up buying a couple of Bosch cobalt bits. They cost me
aboyt £2 each. I found they remained sharp longer than my other high speed
steel drills, I gather because they stand more heat.

The screws I was trying to drill out were particularly hard for some reason
(sod's law, most likely). Anyway, I got through them with the application
of a little brute force, and the two drill bits still have some life left
in them.

Al