Roger Chapman wrote:
On 24/11/2011 14:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Let me pose a question of my own. What was the starting rate for
domestic 4KW schemes for FIT year 1?


45p

I can't find any reference to it now but it is my understanding that the
starting figure for FIT year 1 was 41.3p.

There was 5p for summat else..maybe that was the market rate for buying
the juice elsewhere.

Martin Brown wrote:

1076KW seems
astonishingly precise with four significant figures too.

Especially as they only seem to vaguely say they'll have between 700 and
800 panels.

On 24/11/2011 15:57, Andy Burns wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

1076KW seems
astonishingly precise with four significant figures too.

Especially as they only seem to vaguely say they'll have between 700 and
800 panels.

Perhaps they intend to add panels until they hit 1076KW (sic) exactly

Regards,
Martin Brown

On 24/11/2011 10:45, harry wrote:

There is another not often mentioned factor.
If you put the panels on the roof they take up no space.
If you put the panels on the ground, they take up space that has to be
paid for and there is a lot of concrete etc.. Also the ground round/
under the array will need to be maintained. (Mow the grass?)

An interesting comparison would be to look at the difference say growing
a crop of something suitable for fuel use in the space, and running
diesel genset on the result.


--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:

An interesting comparison would be to look at the difference say growing
a crop of something suitable for fuel use in the space, and running
diesel genset on the result.

As we're coming up for panto season, maybe they'd like to swap for some
magical biodiesel beans?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140629416902

On 24/11/2011 17:00, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

An interesting comparison would be to look at the difference say growing
a crop of something suitable for fuel use in the space, and running
diesel genset on the result.

As we're coming up for panto season, maybe they'd like to swap for some
magical biodiesel beans?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140629416902

How much!

BCSS has offered them for much less and several seeds. I have grown one
of the other more ornamental Jatropas in the past. Rather large leaves
with stinging hairs and some very interesting toxins in them - nice red
flowers though. It would cost more energy to keep the plant alive in the
UK than you could ever hope to get back from the fruit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatropha_curcas

Beware of any euphorbia or any anacardaceae for that matter the number
of them that are actually benign can be counted on the fingers of one
hand - and some of the more virulent ones are extremely unforgiving.

Regards,
Martin Brown

John Rumm wrote:
On 24/11/2011 10:45, harry wrote:

There is another not often mentioned factor.
If you put the panels on the roof they take up no space.
If you put the panels on the ground, they take up space that has to be
paid for and there is a lot of concrete etc.. Also the ground round/
under the array will need to be maintained. (Mow the grass?)

An interesting comparison would be to look at the difference say growing
a crop of something suitable for fuel use in the space,

No comparison sadly. 0.1W/sq meter for biofuel 30W sq meter for solar.

BUT you CAN store biofuel and burn it when you need it.

Which is why its worth far more than at first appears.



and running
diesel genset on the result.

On 24/11/2011 16:43, John Rumm wrote:

On 24/11/2011 10:45, harry wrote:

There is another not often mentioned factor.
If you put the panels on the roof they take up no space.
If you put the panels on the ground, they take up space that has to be
paid for and there is a lot of concrete etc.. Also the ground round/
under the array will need to be maintained. (Mow the grass?)

An interesting comparison would be to look at the difference say growing
a crop of something suitable for fuel use in the space, and running
diesel genset on the result.


I could be wrong but I think you will find that net farming profits are
a few hundreds of pounds per acre at best for land that is probably
worth something in the order of £5000 per acre. The cost of an acre
sized array would dwarf the cost of the land and the income would make
any alternative agricultural income totally inconsequential.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger Chapman wrote:
On 24/11/2011 16:43, John Rumm wrote:

On 24/11/2011 10:45, harry wrote:

There is another not often mentioned factor.
If you put the panels on the roof they take up no space.
If you put the panels on the ground, they take up space that has to be
paid for and there is a lot of concrete etc.. Also the ground round/
under the array will need to be maintained. (Mow the grass?)

An interesting comparison would be to look at the difference say growing
a crop of something suitable for fuel use in the space, and running
diesel genset on the result.


I could be wrong but I think you will find that net farming profits are
a few hundreds of pounds per acre at best for land that is probably
worth something in the order of £5000 per acre.

That's not far off.. wheat is about 8 tonnes per hectare.
3.27 per acre and with wheat at 140 a tonne is around £450 per acre
gross, but that's before seed, diesel, fertiliser and insecticide and
herbicide.. but there's probably a bit if subsidy in there as well.

The cost of an acre
sized array would dwarf the cost of the land and the income would make
any alternative agricultural income totally inconsequential.

On 24/11/2011 13:55, Roger Chapman wrote:
The college report implies they won't be connected to the grid: "Surplus
electricity will be made available to local community groups and
projects, reducing their energy costs" but I will only believe that when
they can show how they are going "to be self-sufficient with electricity
and not rely on the National Grid".

I looked at their own description of themselves:

"Based in the newly designed and built Trades Pavilion at our Midlothian
Campus, the Faculty of Technology trains students in a range of
engineering disciplines and construction and service trades.

"Many of our students are apprentices, honing their knowledge and skills
while employed by local businesses. We train a large number of
carpentry & joinery and plumbing apprentices, drawn from across the
southeast of Scotland, as well as engineering apprentices, employed with
local manufacturing and maintenance companies.

"If you come to Jewel & Esk to study engineering, you could specialise
in automotive, electrical, measurement & control or mechanical.
Whichever discipline you choose, you can be sure youll be working and
learning in a modern industry environment, giving you the perfect
springboard to develop your career in the industry or move on to degree
level study at university."

With all due respect to those involved I don't think this is quite like
Cambridge. They might not have got the sums right.

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:
On 24/11/2011 13:55, Roger Chapman wrote:
The college report implies they won't be connected to the grid: "Surplus
electricity will be made available to local community groups and
projects, reducing their energy costs" but I will only believe that when
they can show how they are going "to be self-sufficient with electricity
and not rely on the National Grid".

I looked at their own description of themselves:

"Based in the newly designed and built Trades Pavilion at our Midlothian
Campus, the Faculty of Technology trains students in a range of
engineering disciplines and construction and service trades.

"Many of our students are apprentices, honing their knowledge and skills
while employed by local businesses. We train a large number of
carpentry & joinery and plumbing apprentices, drawn from across the
southeast of Scotland, as well as engineering apprentices, employed with
local manufacturing and maintenance companies.

"If you come to Jewel & Esk to study engineering, you could specialise
in automotive, electrical, measurement & control or mechanical.
Whichever discipline you choose, you can be sure youll be working and
learning in a modern industry environment, giving you the perfect
springboard to develop your career in the industry or move on to degree
level study at university."

With all due respect to those involved I don't think this is quite like
Cambridge. They might not have got the sums right.


Not a uni at all. Its a tech.

Andy

I can think of two reasons why they wont connect to the "National Grid".
1. They are in Scotland
2. Private consumers are never connected to 'The National Grid'. Theya re
connected to the distribution network of whoever provides the local
infra-structure.


Yeabut thats connected to the grid .. somewhere ...
--
Tony Sayer

On Nov 24, 1:26*pm, Andy Burns wrote:
The 8.5p rate isn't /outrageous/ it depends if their costs really are
going to be 300 grand, and if their output matches predictions. *As
they're a college with an 'energy dept' maybe they've got them dirt
cheap in some sort of sponsorship scheme?

Private school & church investments are notorious for being abysmal.

Since this is a school I have a suspicion there may be a Charitable
Trust involved here, which may mean they are not treated as commercial
and as such a) qualify for higher FiT rate and b) qualify for other
tax incentives. That is to say someone is getting 40% back somewhere.
Then again, if this is a private school they can usually not do maths
or science... :-)

Money can also travel through a private school and out the other side
to Barbados, which gets compounded tax back. A favourite of the
medical doctors at both hospitals & general practice.

I very much doubt they are tracking units, they have horrible lifetime
reliability & maintenance. I recall some solar farms abandoned them in
the USA because they could just buy more panels with the savings.

I think you can do a 1kW panel for around £280 in seconds, plus £50 in
other sundries to get it waterproof. Of course that will not qualify
for a FiT scheme even if done as a contracted company etc.

On Nov 24, 4:43*pm, John Rumm wrote:
An interesting comparison would be to look at the difference say growing
a crop of something suitable for fuel use in the space, and running
diesel genset on the result.

What would it cost to hire a temp classroom, then classroom by
classroom insulate to 75-100mm Celotex buying seconds and plasterboard
using an onsite maintenance bod?

Oh I get it, they get the PV that someone else cancelled? :-)

No, it is a technical college... the figures have a decimal point in
the wrong place.

js.b1 wrote:
No, it is a technical college... the figures have a decimal point in
the wrong place.
:-)

On 24/11/2011 15:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Roger Chapman wrote:
On 24/11/2011 14:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Let me pose a question of my own. What was the starting rate for
domestic 4KW schemes for FIT year 1?


45p

I can't find any reference to it now but it is my understanding that
the starting figure for FIT year 1 was 41.3p.

There was 5p for summat else..maybe that was the market rate for buying
the juice elsewhere.

I thought it was an additional 3p odd for any juice you actually backfeed?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 00:34:36 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

I can't find any reference to it now but it is my understanding
that
the starting figure for FIT year 1 was 41.3p.

There was 5p for summat else..maybe that was the market rate for
buying
the juice elsewhere.

I thought it was an additional 3p odd for any juice you actually
backfeed?

Yep but that would be a fully metered system, you don't need to have
a fully metered system. If you don't you get paid your FIT rate for
everything you produce and it is deemed that you only use 50% of what
you generated so get paid an extra 3p/unit on 50% of your generation.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:47:51 +0000 (UTC), Tim
wrote:

This story caught my eye this morning.

http://m.stv.tv/news/scotland/east-c...-solar-meadow/

This piece of nonsense caught my eye...
"which will generate 1076KW of energy a day"

FFS.

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:39:45 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

The picture shows them on vertical stalks. Are they really equatorially
mounted onto the poles? It doesn't look like it from the photos. And it
looks like they were at least installed at a sensible *SUNNY* latitude.

For ****'s sake, it's a stock pic, good enough for journalistic
purposes.

wrote:


For ****'s sake, it's a stock pic, good enough for journalistic
purposes == pulling green wool of harryy's eyes.

On Nov 24, 5:55*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 24/11/2011 10:45, harry wrote:

There is another not often mentioned factor.
If you put the panels on the roof they take up no space.
If you put the panels on the ground, they take up space that has to be
paid for and there is a lot of concrete etc.. * Also the ground round/
under *the array will need to be maintained. (Mow the grass?)

An interesting comparison would be to look at the difference say growing
a crop of something suitable for fuel use in the space,

No comparison sadly. 0.1W/sq meter for biofuel 30W sq meter for solar.

BUT you CAN store biofuel and burn it when you need it.

Which is why its worth far more than at first appears.

and running

diesel genset on the result.

Since it is dark most of teh winter all day in Scotland and the
colleges close most of the summer, I imagine the benefits of bio-fuel
would be better.

Why is Edinburgh called old reeky?
Is it anything to do with the weather?

In article
,
Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Nov 24, 5:55 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 24/11/2011 10:45, harry wrote:

There is another not often mentioned factor.
If you put the panels on the roof they take up no space.
If you put the panels on the ground, they take up space that has to be
paid for and there is a lot of concrete etc.. Also the ground round/
under the array will need to be maintained. (Mow the grass?)

An interesting comparison would be to look at the difference say growing
a crop of something suitable for fuel use in the space,

No comparison sadly. 0.1W/sq meter for biofuel 30W sq meter for solar.

BUT you CAN store biofuel and burn it when you need it.

Which is why its worth far more than at first appears.

and running

diesel genset on the result.

Since it is dark most of teh winter all day in Scotland and the
colleges close most of the summer, I imagine the benefits of bio-fuel
would be better.

Why is Edinburgh called old reeky?
Is it anything to do with the weather?

no, it was due to the smokey fires that used to warm the buildings.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

On 27/11/2011 08:01, Weatherlawyer wrote:

Why is Edinburgh called old reeky?
Is it anything to do with the weather?

Could be the same reason that London used to be called 'The Smoke'.
--
Roger Chapman

On 27/11/2011 08:01, Weatherlawyer wrote:
Why is Edinburgh called old reeky?

"Auld Reeky" means "Old Smoky". As in "Lang may your lum reek" ~= "Long
may your chimney smoke".

Andy