Just ordered to move my phone to Zen (current ISP) and got a BT SMS saying
phone this number to find out the early termination charges !!! (account
with free weekend/evening calls over 12 months old) so I girded my loins,
rang the number,

him - that will be £28 pounds early termination sir,
me - Ah ... do we owe much on the account?
him - no sir £8 in credit
me - umm so why the early termination charges?
him - Because of the cheap rate you get your free calls at and you are only
3 months into a second year contract blah blah blah
me - well I didnt authorise an auto-renewing contract you never contacted
me to ask if I wanted another year contract, and you have just put the
price of line rental up
him - do you expect us to contact you and ask then?
me - well since you are taking my money and you are happy to email me when
the bill is in, when you have a special offer, when you want to sell me
broadband, when you want to sell me bt vision and when your price changes
it seems the least you could do
Him - thats ok sir then no termination charges ?????????????????

so why try it on ? and more to the point why did he back down?

--
(º€¢.¸(¨*€¢.¸ ¸.€¢*¨)¸.€¢Âº)
.€¢Â°€¢. Nik .€¢Â°€¢.
(¸.€¢Âº(¸.€¢Â¨* *¨€¢.¸)º€¢.¸)

Ghostrecon wrote:

Just ordered to move my phone to Zen (current ISP) and got a BT SMS saying
phone this number to find out the early termination charges !!! (account
with free weekend/evening calls over 12 months old)

If you have the free evening/weekend calls package, then you signed up
for a rolling 12 month contract, rather than a minumum 12 month
contract, they should inform you each year before it renews, allowing
you the opportunity to opt-out for the following year. Cancelling
partway through a year will have a charge.

To be honest I'm surprised they let you off the charges. Apparently
OFCOM are going to ban this type of rolling deal, to be honest I don't
see the problem with them, provided it's clear what you're actually
signing up for, which I found was the case with BT, then I'll have to
remember to subscribe every 12 months to get free evening/weekend calls ...

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:48:46 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Ghostrecon wrote:

Just ordered to move my phone to Zen (current ISP) and got a BT SMS saying
phone this number to find out the early termination charges !!! (account
with free weekend/evening calls over 12 months old)

If you have the free evening/weekend calls package, then you signed up
for a rolling 12 month contract, rather than a minumum 12 month
contract, they should inform you each year before it renews, allowing
you the opportunity to opt-out for the following year. Cancelling
partway through a year will have a charge.

To be honest I'm surprised they let you off the charges. Apparently
OFCOM are going to ban this type of rolling deal, to be honest I don't
see the problem with them, provided it's clear what you're actually
signing up for, which I found was the case with BT, then I'll have to
remember to subscribe every 12 months to get free evening/weekend calls ...

well I had no notification because I wouldnt have renewed the plan - we all
have more free minutes on our mobiles and so only use the landline for 0800
numbers - I have geographic numbers fo most things. I wondered if the line
rental price hike allowed us to get out of the contract?
--
(º€¢.¸(¨*€¢.¸ ¸.€¢*¨)¸.€¢Âº)
.€¢Â°€¢. Nik .€¢Â°€¢.
(¸.€¢Âº(¸.€¢Â¨* *¨€¢.¸)º€¢.¸)

Ghostrecon wrote:

I wondered if the line
rental price hike allowed us to get out of the contract?

I think that's possible, I notice elsewhere that BT are to cancel the
discount for paperless billing.

In article , Ghostrecon
scribeth thus
Just ordered to move my phone to Zen (current ISP) and got a BT SMS saying
phone this number to find out the early termination charges !!! (account
with free weekend/evening calls over 12 months old) so I girded my loins,
rang the number,

him - that will be £28 pounds early termination sir,
me - Ah ... do we owe much on the account?
him - no sir £8 in credit
me - umm so why the early termination charges?
him - Because of the cheap rate you get your free calls at and you are only
3 months into a second year contract blah blah blah
me - well I didnt authorise an auto-renewing contract you never contacted
me to ask if I wanted another year contract, and you have just put the
price of line rental up
him - do you expect us to contact you and ask then?
me - well since you are taking my money and you are happy to email me when
the bill is in, when you have a special offer, when you want to sell me
broadband, when you want to sell me bt vision and when your price changes
it seems the least you could do
Him - thats ok sir then no termination charges ?????????????????

so why try it on ? and more to the point why did he back down?


Best away for that bunch of muppets. Zen are an excellent company wish
we could port VM lines there;!...
--
Tony Sayer

On 14 Nov 2011 17:15:38 GMT, Huge wrote:

I wondered if the line rental price hike allowed us to get out of
the
contract?

I think that's possible,

Aye.

I notice elsewhere that BT are to cancel the discount for
paperless
billing.

Really?

Yep.

In that case, I'm going back to paper bills.

You'll need to read the small print carefully, I only skimmed the
email but my "weasel words" alarm sounded. I only skimmed it as we
have no option but BT for a landline here and we have to have a
landline to divert the mobiles to when at home as coverage is crap.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:39:46 +0000, Ghostrecon wrote:

Him - thats ok sir then no termination charges ?????????????????

so why try it on ?

Because it's worth it. Plenty of mugs will just pay up.

and more to the point why did he back down?

Caught with his pants down.

I've been rather remiss checking my phone bills the last couple
of years, but I searched through my Virgin Media bill for the
line rental today. £13.90 a month!!! When did that happen???
I'm sure it was £6.99 a month when I first signed up with
Yorkshire Cable.

Sheesh. I've already trimmed by bill down by going onto Free
Cable, but an average of one hour of phone calls per month
makes the total bill huge.

JGH

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:12:33 -0800 (PST), jgharston
wrote:

I've been rather remiss checking my phone bills the last couple
of years, but I searched through my Virgin Media bill for the
line rental today. £13.90 a month!!! When did that happen???
I'm sure it was £6.99 a month when I first signed up with
Yorkshire Cable.

Sheesh. I've already trimmed by bill down by going onto Free
Cable, but an average of one hour of phone calls per month
makes the total bill huge.

Doesn't seem _that_ long ago that (quite apart from interweb stuff) I
was paying BT (or was it PO?) something like £16 per quarter for my
telephone service, as a low user.

Now it's around £160 per quarter, but that does include Infinity,
Unlimited Anytime landline calls, Caller Display and ACR (which is
quite expensive FWII!).

I've never decided whether it's cheaper to call a UK moblie from the
landline or my own moblie.

--
Frank Erskine

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:27:47 +0000, Frank Erskine wrote:

Now it's around £160 per quarter,

Blimey I though my £140/qtr for ISDN was expensive...

but that does include Infinity, Unlimited Anytime landline calls,

I guess infinity pushes it up quite a bit and those unlimited anytime
calls. One really does need to do the maths on ones useage to see if
you are actually on the best tarrif. We are on a 10p/call cap
(25p/call cap for mobiles) for calls lasting less than an hour. We
don't make many calls and those we do are short, most are less than 5
minuets, but at daytime rates soon hit the cap. I suspect if we went
for anytime package the rental would go up by more than the £20/qtr
we currently spend on calls

Caller Display and ACR (which is quite expensive FWII!).

Does "Privacy at Home" give you ACR (Automatic Call Rejection?), if
so it also gives you free Caller Display. Does require a residential
not bussiness line though.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Does "Privacy at Home" give you ACR (Automatic Call Rejection?),

s/Automatic/Anonymous

but no.

if
so it also gives you free Caller Display. Does require a residential
not bussiness line though.

and requires a few chargeble (not necessarily charged) calls per quarter.

On Nov 14, 10:12*pm, jgharston wrote:
I've been rather remiss checking my phone bills the last couple
of years, but I searched through my Virgin Media bill for the
line rental today. £13.90 a month!!! When did that happen???
I'm sure it was £6.99 a month when I first signed up with
Yorkshire Cable.

Sheesh. I've already trimmed by bill down by going onto Free
Cable, but an average of one hour of phone calls per month
makes the total bill huge.

Someone has to pay for the bumf they send.

I got a bubbly envelope the other day for an upgrade pack. I don't
have a phone line or a TV and my internet is via 3's dongle. Inside
was a card folder with a small catalogue and a flyer, nothing else.

I get ordinary large envelopes with much the same though less weighty
at least once a month.

At least now I know who's paying for it.
Thanks.

For nothing.

On Nov 14, 11:27*pm, Frank Erskine
wrote:

I've never decided whether it's cheaper to call a UK moblie from the
landline or my own moblie.

Labara.
2 or 3 pence per minute.

Frank Erskine wrote:

I've never decided whether it's cheaper to call a UK moblie from the
landline or my own moblie.

Have you looked at the rates from 18185?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:

Does "Privacy at Home" give you ACR (Automatic Call Rejection?),

s/Automatic/Anonymous

but no.


Some phones (Siemens gigaset for example IIRC) offer this. You still get the
call, but the phone ignores it. Might be an option?

so it also gives you free Caller Display. Does require a residential
not bussiness line though.

and requires a few chargeble (not necessarily charged) calls per quarter.


Old modem from bootfair on back of PC. I know a couple of people who do this.
Ring yourself at the office at 2am :-)

Darren

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:02:44 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:27:47 +0000, Frank Erskine wrote:

Now it's around £160 per quarter,

Blimey I though my £140/qtr for ISDN was expensive...

but that does include Infinity, Unlimited Anytime landline calls,

I guess infinity pushes it up quite a bit and those unlimited anytime
calls. One really does need to do the maths on ones useage to see if
you are actually on the best tarrif. We are on a 10p/call cap
(25p/call cap for mobiles) for calls lasting less than an hour. We
don't make many calls and those we do are short, most are less than 5
minuets, but at daytime rates soon hit the cap. I suspect if we went
for anytime package the rental would go up by more than the £20/qtr
we currently spend on calls

Caller Display and ACR (which is quite expensive FWII!).

Does "Privacy at Home" give you ACR (Automatic Call Rejection?),

_Anonymous_ Call Rejection.


--
Frank Erskine

In article , Frank Erskine
scribeth thus
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:12:33 -0800 (PST), jgharston
wrote:

I've been rather remiss checking my phone bills the last couple
of years, but I searched through my Virgin Media bill for the
line rental today. £13.90 a month!!! When did that happen???
I'm sure it was £6.99 a month when I first signed up with
Yorkshire Cable.

Sheesh. I've already trimmed by bill down by going onto Free
Cable, but an average of one hour of phone calls per month
makes the total bill huge.

Doesn't seem _that_ long ago that (quite apart from interweb stuff) I
was paying BT (or was it PO?) something like £16 per quarter for my
telephone service, as a low user.

Now it's around £160 per quarter, but that does include Infinity,
Unlimited Anytime landline calls, Caller Display and ACR (which is
quite expensive FWII!).



If you have broadband for Virgin then dump the phone lines and use VoIP
from a half decent provider, and use your mobile inclusive minutes to
call other mobiles from your mobile...


I've never decided whether it's cheaper to call a UK moblie from the
landline or my own moblie.


--
Tony Sayer

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:21:51 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

If you have broadband for Virgin then dump the phone lines and use VoIP
from a half decent provider, and use your mobile inclusive minutes to
call other mobiles from your mobile...

I still need a "normal" line for my heritage (700 type and earlier)
phones, switchboards etc :-)


--
Frank Erskine

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:21:51 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

If you have broadband for Virgin then dump the phone lines and use VoIP
from a half decent provider, and use your mobile inclusive minutes to
call other mobiles from your mobile...

I still need a "normal" line for my heritage (700 type and earlier)
phones, switchboards etc :-)


then get a VOIP router and plug your phones into that.

My billion 7504VGP has IIRC two VOIP translated POTS sockets.

http://au.billion.com/product/voip/bipac7404vgp.php

That's what I do.

simple PAYG service with SIPGATE.

HAVING the phone line costs me nothing over and above the broadband, and
the actual calls are very cheap.

Best of all, it emails me voicemail as .wav files.

Far better service than BY ever gave me.

The actual fixed line is rented at rock bottom lines from my ISP (IDNET)
who buy it, and bulk calls, off BT wholesale.

OK its all technically no better than BT, but the price and service is
massively improved.

And the VOIP quality is usually way better than the POTS line.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:08:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:21:51 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

If you have broadband for Virgin then dump the phone lines and use VoIP
from a half decent provider, and use your mobile inclusive minutes to
call other mobiles from your mobile...

I still need a "normal" line for my heritage (700 type and earlier)
phones, switchboards etc :-)


then get a VOIP router and plug your phones into that.

But but but I'm a traditionalist :-)

--
Frank Erskine

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:08:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:21:51 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

If you have broadband for Virgin then dump the phone lines and use VoIP
from a half decent provider, and use your mobile inclusive minutes to
call other mobiles from your mobile...

I still need a "normal" line for my heritage (700 type and earlier)
phones, switchboards etc :-)


then get a VOIP router and plug your phones into that.

But but but I'm a traditionalist :-)

Hmm, BT can use VoIP at the exchange end.
We had a DSLAM that did broadband and VoIP termination for the POTS line
five years ago.
They were on the same card and dispensed with the need for an exchange to
offer POTS.
I expect they are using the same design for 21CN as we proposed.

We also had cards that did traditional trunk lines that just replaced the
concentrators and ran 2M back to the traditional switch.

Much better to opt out of unaddressed mail altogether.

http://www2.royalmail.com/you-home/c...ling-your-mail


Which is fine so long as the postman remembers to not deliver the junk,
and it doesn't do anything about the stuff delivered by non Royal Mail
bods.

Oh, and reading the link, junk addressed to "the occupier" still gets
delivered.


Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "news" with "adrian" and "nospam" with "ffoil"
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

In article ,
Adrian Simpson wrote:
Much better to opt out of unaddressed mail altogether.

http://www2.royalmail.com/you-home/c...ling-your-mail


Which is fine so long as the postman remembers to not deliver the junk,
and it doesn't do anything about the stuff delivered by non Royal Mail
bods.

Oh, and reading the link, junk addressed to "the occupier" still gets
delivered.

you will find that your Council Tax bill and your voter registration
paperwork, amongst other things, is addressed to "The Occupier".

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

In article , charles
writes
In article ,
Adrian Simpson wrote:
Much better to opt out of unaddressed mail altogether.

http://www2.royalmail.com/you-home/c...ling-your-mail


Which is fine so long as the postman remembers to not deliver the junk,
and it doesn't do anything about the stuff delivered by non Royal Mail
bods.

Oh, and reading the link, junk addressed to "the occupier" still gets
delivered.

you will find that your Council Tax bill and your voter registration
paperwork, amongst other things, is addressed to "The Occupier".


Around here, I think the voter registration stuff is not RM delivered.


Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "news" with "adrian" and "nospam" with "ffoil"
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

On 15 Nov,
Frank Erskine wrote:

I still need a "normal" line for my heritage (700 type and earlier)
phones, switchboards etc :-)

The virgin pots will take 'heritage' phones, at least pulse dialling ones.

However, I'm thinking of ditching virgin in favour of infinity. I've yet to
do the sums, I prefer using proper coax for BB rather than twisted pair which
wasn't designed for it but VM's marketing, price and poor customer service
may result in a change.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

wrote:
On 15 Nov,
Frank Erskine wrote:

I still need a "normal" line for my heritage (700 type and earlier)
phones, switchboards etc :-)

The virgin pots will take 'heritage' phones, at least pulse dialling ones.

However, I'm thinking of ditching virgin in favour of infinity. I've yet to
do the sums, I prefer using proper coax for BB rather than twisted pair which
wasn't designed for it but VM's marketing, price and poor customer service
may result in a change.

The air wasn't designed for aeroplanes either, but they work well enough :-)


I am getting more down a mile and a bit of copper than I ever did down
fibres in the early days....

who cares what it is if it works.

In article , Frank Erskine
scribeth thus
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:08:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:21:51 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

If you have broadband for Virgin then dump the phone lines and use VoIP
from a half decent provider, and use your mobile inclusive minutes to
call other mobiles from your mobile...

I still need a "normal" line for my heritage (700 type and earlier)
phones, switchboards etc :-)


then get a VOIP router and plug your phones into that.

But but but I'm a traditionalist :-)


BT must lurve yer Frank;!...
--
Tony Sayer

On 16/11/2011 00:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am getting more down a mile and a bit of copper than I ever did down
fibres in the early days....

Just curious but what BB speed are you actually getting and is that
copper back to the exchange or to a roadside cabinet that has a fibre
connection?

--
Roger Chapman

On 15/11/2011 22:15, charles wrote:

Oh, and reading the link, junk addressed to "the occupier" still gets
delivered.

you will find that your Council Tax bill and your voter registration
paperwork, amongst other things, is addressed to "The Occupier".

My Council Tax bill is addressed to me personally.

--
Roger Chapman

On 16/11/2011 10:55, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 15/11/2011 22:15, charles wrote:

Oh, and reading the link, junk addressed to "the occupier" still gets
delivered.

you will find that your Council Tax bill and your voter registration
paperwork, amongst other things, is addressed to "The Occupier".

My Council Tax bill is addressed to me personally.


You could change your name by deed poll.....

Er, usefully, online too ;-)

(me checks google with "online deed poll" - Bloody hell, looks like
everyone and his dog is running a "change your name by deed poll" advice
site.... Who is regulating this?)

--
Not Me

Roger Chapman wrote:
On 16/11/2011 00:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am getting more down a mile and a bit of copper than I ever did down
fibres in the early days....

Just curious but what BB speed are you actually getting and is that
copper back to the exchange or to a roadside cabinet that has a fibre
connection?

these days after attention by well coffee and biscuited engineers a bit
over 5Mbps down and the ghastly 448k up which is all I can it seens expect.

No fibre. Copper all the way.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Ghostrecon wrote:

Just ordered to move my phone to Zen (current ISP) and got a BT SMS
saying
phone this number to find out the early termination charges !!! (account
with free weekend/evening calls over 12 months old)

If you have the free evening/weekend calls package, then you signed up for
a rolling 12 month contract, rather than a minumum 12 month contract, they
should inform you each year before it renews, allowing you the opportunity
to opt-out for the following year. Cancelling partway through a year will
have a charge.

To be honest I'm surprised they let you off the charges. Apparently OFCOM
are going to ban this type of rolling deal, to be honest I don't see the
problem with them,

I do

It's just all too easy for the notice telling you that it's about to auto
renew to get "lost" in the post and there's no incentive at all for the
supplier to make sure that it doesn't.

By making you actively have to "sign up" each year it will never get lost
(will it)

tim