Dave wrote:

Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a stop
in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not taught to
use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right gear at all
times?

Having recently got an automatic, I guess it must look like I am
using the brakes when I would previously have judged it
unnecessary.

Additionally, with a manual, you feather the brakes as you come
to a halt, to avoid the final jerk, but this seems much harder to
judge on an auto,

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

In article ,
Chris J Dixon wrote:
Having recently got an automatic, I guess it must look like I am
using the brakes when I would previously have judged it
unnecessary.

Additionally, with a manual, you feather the brakes as you come
to a halt, to avoid the final jerk, but this seems much harder to
judge on an auto,

Depends on the amount of 'creep'. Is it a new car - and is the idle speed
correct?

--
*Give me ambiguity or give me something else.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Oct 6, 10:10*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Depends on the amount of 'creep'. Is it a new car - and is the idle speed
correct?

I rather doubt it's an SD1 (unbalanced carbs on a Rover V8 were
probably the worst cause of auto-box creep ever).

When did you last see a car, any car, with a modern ECU and active
control of idle speed based on an absolute measure of rpm have an
excessively high idle speed? There are lots of "limp home" modes
that select a deliberately high idle speed, but it's just not a
problem these days to see an idle speed that has crept up because the
mixture is wrong, or there's a manifold leak.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Chris J Dixon wrote:
Having recently got an automatic, I guess it must look like I am
using the brakes when I would previously have judged it
unnecessary.

Additionally, with a manual, you feather the brakes as you come
to a halt, to avoid the final jerk, but this seems much harder to
judge on an auto,

Depends on the amount of 'creep'. Is it a new car - and is the idle speed
correct?


In my current auto car there is enough power at tickover to propell the car
to over 30mph if you just take your foot off the brake.
Makes driving slowly and stopping in snow almost impossible with the car in
gear.
I have learned to engage neutral then apply the brakes at anything less than
about 10mph.
However I can come to a gentle halt in gear using the brakes under normal
conditions.

Cheers

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Oct 6, 11:51*am, "David WE Roberts" wrote:

In my current auto car there is enough power at tickover to propell the car
to over 30mph if you just take your foot off the brake.

What is it, and when are you going to fix it?

In article
,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Depends on the amount of 'creep'. Is it a new car - and is the idle
speed correct?

I rather doubt it's an SD1 (unbalanced carbs on a Rover V8 were
probably the worst cause of auto-box creep ever).

Really? You've never driven a DAF, then. And *carbs* on an SD1? Did they
make such a lowly model? ;-)

When did you last see a car, any car, with a modern ECU and active
control of idle speed based on an absolute measure of rpm have an
excessively high idle speed? There are lots of "limp home" modes
that select a deliberately high idle speed, but it's just not a
problem these days to see an idle speed that has crept up because the
mixture is wrong, or there's a manifold leak.

Which is why I asked the question. Just because it's meant to have a
designed idle speed doesn't mean it's working correctly.

--
*How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
David WE Roberts wrote:
In my current auto car there is enough power at tickover to propell the
car to over 30mph if you just take your foot off the brake. Makes
driving slowly and stopping in snow almost impossible with the car in
gear.

Sounds like a make/model to avoid. What is it? I've never driven any that
will go much above walking pace if you don't touch the accelerator pedal.
At 30 mph in first gear my newer auto would be nearing maximum revs. And
the idle never varies from 700 rpm.

--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 14:23:40 +0100
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
David WE Roberts wrote:
In my current auto car there is enough power at tickover to propell
the car to over 30mph if you just take your foot off the brake.
Makes driving slowly and stopping in snow almost impossible with
the car in gear.

Sounds like a make/model to avoid. What is it? I've never driven any
that will go much above walking pace if you don't touch the
accelerator pedal. At 30 mph in first gear my newer auto would be
nearing maximum revs. And the idle never varies from 700 rpm.


He didn't say it stayed in 1st gear, it might change up!
--
Davey.

In article ,
Davey wrote:
Sounds like a make/model to avoid. What is it? I've never driven any
that will go much above walking pace if you don't touch the
accelerator pedal. At 30 mph in first gear my newer auto would be
nearing maximum revs. And the idle never varies from 700 rpm.


He didn't say it stayed in 1st gear, it might change up!

Be a very strange idle mechanism if it did. It would need to be capable of
'opening the throttle' well beyond anything needed.
I can just imagine all the law suits in the US with this car...

--
*I thought I wanted a career. Turns out I just wanted paychecks.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Oct 6, 2:47*pm, Davey wrote:

He didn't say it stayed in 1st gear, it might change up!

I don't think even an XJS would change up at idle.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Oct 6, 11:51 am, "David WE Roberts" wrote:

In my current auto car there is enough power at tickover to propell the
car
to over 30mph if you just take your foot off the brake.

*What is it, and when are you going to fix it?

Volvo 850 R auto with an alleged 240 bhp when new.
There is enough grunt in the engine to get it rolling at tickover and then
the gearbox will change up - not unreasonable as road speed increases.
Especially on a slight down slope.
IIRC my old 3 litre auto Toyota Supra and my old Volvo 760 Turbo auto also
exhibited similar characteristics.

None of them do 0-30 in nothing flat without any throttle but there is
enough low down power coupled with quite high gearing to get them rolling at
quite a lick starting from rest at tickover.

Also, I was not aware that cars were designed to sit at rest in gear without
the brakes on.
They either stall or start rolling.
With a manual you are restricted to 1st gear.
With an auto it can change up once it is rolling - as presumably it is not
bright enough to know that if it is rolling along with zero throttle it
shouldn't change up if you don't want it to.
Under normal driving, if you lift off after acceleration the auto box will
shift up if you are not in top gear.

Perhaps I should have used the word 'eventually'?

Cheers

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Davey wrote:
Sounds like a make/model to avoid. What is it? I've never driven any
that will go much above walking pace if you don't touch the
accelerator pedal. At 30 mph in first gear my newer auto would be
nearing maximum revs. And the idle never varies from 700 rpm.


He didn't say it stayed in 1st gear, it might change up!

Be a very strange idle mechanism if it did. It would need to be capable of
'opening the throttle' well beyond anything needed.
I can just imagine all the law suits in the US with this car...

it might well be the sort of auto that starts in 2nd.

I have to say that, held in top most cars WILL just about hold 30mph at
tickover.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Oct 6, 2:47 pm, Davey wrote:

He didn't say it stayed in 1st gear, it might change up!

I don't think even an XJS would change up at idle.

no. My XKR stayed in first or second..whatever it started in..it would
do about 5mph - a good creep speed.

In article ,
David WE Roberts wrote:

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Oct 6, 11:51 am, "David WE Roberts" wrote:

In my current auto car there is enough power at tickover to propell
the car to over 30mph if you just take your foot off the brake.

*What is it, and when are you going to fix it?

Volvo 850 R auto with an alleged 240 bhp when new. There is enough grunt
in the engine to get it rolling at tickover and then the gearbox will
change up - not unreasonable as road speed increases.
Regardless of 'how much grunt' an engine may have at full throttle, it
only produces enough power at idle to overcome the losses of its own
friction and the things it drives at that time. If it produced more than
this, its speed would increase and increase...
That's why most these days have a closed loop idle mechanism which keeps
the idle constant regardless of the load of the alternator, air-con, etc.
But no auto I know of will change up at idle revs. Otherwise it would
change up several times before moving off...

Especially on a
slight down slope.

Well, down a slope a manual could reach well over 30 mph without ever
being put in gear...

IIRC my old 3 litre auto Toyota Supra and my old
Volvo 760 Turbo auto also exhibited similar characteristics.

So around town you have to keep the brakes on permanently to avoid
breaking the speed limit? Sounds rather inefficient to me.

None of them do 0-30 in nothing flat without any throttle but there is
enough low down power coupled with quite high gearing to get them
rolling at quite a lick starting from rest at tickover.

Quite a lick now? If you made that a fast walking pace on the level I'd
agree with you. But not 30 mph.

Also, I was not aware that cars were designed to sit at rest in gear
without the brakes on. They either stall or start rolling.

Sounds like your auto is faulty in more than one way.


With a manual you are restricted to 1st gear.
With an auto it can change up once it is rolling - as presumably it is not
bright enough to know that if it is rolling along with zero throttle it
shouldn't change up if you don't want it to.

It knows both the engine RPM and the road speed. Even very early ones did.
And it will only change up when both those pre-sets have been exceeded.

Under normal driving, if you lift off after acceleration the auto box
will shift up if you are not in top gear.

Depends how fast you're going. My BMW won't select top gear until about 60
mph regardless of where the throttle is. And there are similar minimums
for all gears when in auto.

Perhaps I should have used the word 'eventually'?

I'd suggest you find a flat bit of road with no traffic and actually try
it.

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David WE Roberts wrote:
In my current auto car there is enough power at tickover to propell the
car to over 30mph if you just take your foot off the brake. Makes
driving slowly and stopping in snow almost impossible with the car in
gear.

Sounds like a make/model to avoid. What is it? I've never driven any that
will go much above walking pace if you don't touch the accelerator pedal.
At 30 mph in first gear my newer auto would be nearing maximum revs. And
the idle never varies from 700 rpm.

IIRC there were a few cases of volvos reportedly driving off on their own
and killing people.
I thought they recalled them all to fix the problem.

It was a few years ago so they are all ready for scrap by now.

On 06/10/2011 15:35, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Oct 6, 2:47 pm, wrote:

He didn't say it stayed in 1st gear, it might change up!

I don't think even an XJS would change up at idle.

I used to have an auto Cavalier which would wind itself up through the
gears to about 20MPH on the flat. While maintaining a steady 800RPM idle.

Waste fuel? Well, I used to get 35MPG on the open road, and under 20
around town.

Andy

On Oct 6, 8:37*pm, "dennis@home" wrote:

IIRC there were a few cases of volvos reportedly driving off on their own
and killing people.

No Dennis, that was _Transformers_

In message om,
"dennis@home" writes


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David WE Roberts wrote:
In my current auto car there is enough power at tickover to propell the
car to over 30mph if you just take your foot off the brake. Makes
driving slowly and stopping in snow almost impossible with the car in
gear.

Sounds like a make/model to avoid. What is it? I've never driven any that
will go much above walking pace if you don't touch the accelerator pedal.
At 30 mph in first gear my newer auto would be nearing maximum revs. And
the idle never varies from 700 rpm.

IIRC there were a few cases of volvos reportedly driving off on their
own and killing people.
I thought they recalled them all to fix the problem.

It was a few years ago so they are all ready for scrap by now.
You might be thinking of the 343 with DAF type transmission. Volvo put a
neutral in and some people claimed their car had suddenly and
inexplicably driven into the back wall of the garage when they came home
from the pub.
I had a V8 auto Land Rover Defender with tick over set slightly high as
I ran it on gas. It did creep like all autos but I never had it change
up.
--
hugh

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 02:38:37 -0700, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Oct 6, 8:37Â*pm, "dennis@home" wrote:

IIRC there were a few cases of volvos reportedly driving off on their
own and killing people.

No Dennis, that was _Transformers_

Bloody hell - ha ha! Are you sure it wasn't Herbie?

"David WE Roberts" wrote in message
...

snip In my current auto car there is enough power at tickover to propell
the car
to over 30mph if you just take your foot off the brake.

snip


errr....yeah.
As pointed out by several well informed people I was in fact talking
********.
Tried it today and it nips up to 10mph then stays there.
Must have been thinking of the motor home (manual) which can do scary speeds
at tickover in high gears.

Blush

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 21:17:01 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:

I don't think even an XJS would change up at idle.

I used to have an auto Cavalier which would wind itself up through the
gears to about 20MPH on the flat. While maintaining a steady 800RPM idle.

I would say there was something amiss with the vacuum capsule - iirc,
the manifold vacuum should inhibit changes at tickover speed. That's
one of the reasons it's there.