On 05/10/2011 20:46, Dave wrote:
Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a stop
in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not taught to
use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right gear at all
times?

I am told that, these days, you would fail the advanced motorist test if
you slowed down through the gears. Apparently, many drivers are not that
good at judging when the car in front is slowing or stopped if there are
no brake lights to tell them.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar wrote:

On 05/10/2011 20:46, Dave wrote:
Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a stop
in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not taught to
use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right gear at all
times?

I am told that, these days, you would fail the advanced motorist test if
you slowed down through the gears. Apparently, many drivers are not that
good at judging when the car in front is slowing or stopped if there are
no brake lights to tell them.

Colin Bignell

Seems like the test is penalising the wrong party. I find it hard to believe
people cannot see a car slowing down. More likely they are too busy fiddling
with their phone or radio...

--
Tim Watts

On 05/10/2011 23:20, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/10/2011 20:46, Dave wrote:
Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a stop
in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not taught to
use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right gear at all
times?

I am told that, these days, you would fail the advanced motorist test if
you slowed down through the gears. Apparently, many drivers are not that
good at judging when the car in front is slowing or stopped if there are
no brake lights to tell them.

Colin Bignell

Not so new. When I was preparing for the advanced test in 1965, my
instructor who was Hendon police trained, taught me that the brakes are
used for slowing the car and that going down through the gears is wrong.
His argument again was that drive trains are expensive and brakes are
cheap. Brake fade hasn’t been a problem for modern hydraulic braking
systems in any normal UK conditions for a long time.

In article ,
Norman Billingham wrote:
On 05/10/2011 23:20, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/10/2011 20:46, Dave wrote:
Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a stop
in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not taught to
use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right gear at all
times?

I am told that, these days, you would fail the advanced motorist test if
you slowed down through the gears. Apparently, many drivers are not that
good at judging when the car in front is slowing or stopped if there are
no brake lights to tell them.

Colin Bignell

Not so new. When I was preparing for the advanced test in 1965, my
instructor who was Hendon police trained, taught me that the brakes are
used for slowing the car and that going down through the gears is wrong.
His argument again was that drive trains are expensive and brakes are
cheap. Brake fade hasn’t been a problem for modern hydraulic braking
systems in any normal UK conditions for a long time.

agreed that brake fade could be caused by overheating the hydraulic fluid,
but more commonly it was the linings that lost their frictional properties
when hot.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Nightjar wrote:

On 05/10/2011 20:46, Dave wrote:
Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a stop
in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not taught to
use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right gear at all
times?

I am told that, these days, you would fail the advanced motorist test if
you slowed down through the gears. Apparently, many drivers are not that
good at judging when the car in front is slowing or stopped if there are
no brake lights to tell them.

Colin Bignell

Seems like the test is penalising the wrong party. I find it hard to
believe
people cannot see a car slowing down. More likely they are too busy
fiddling
with their phone or radio...

An advanced driver would take that into account.

dennis@home wrote:



"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Nightjar wrote:

On 05/10/2011 20:46, Dave wrote:
Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a stop
in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not taught to
use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right gear at all
times?

I am told that, these days, you would fail the advanced motorist test if
you slowed down through the gears. Apparently, many drivers are not that
good at judging when the car in front is slowing or stopped if there are
no brake lights to tell them.

Colin Bignell

Seems like the test is penalising the wrong party. I find it hard to
believe
people cannot see a car slowing down. More likely they are too busy
fiddling
with their phone or radio...

An advanced driver would take that into account.

With a shotgun?

--
Tim Watts

On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 23:31:16 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Nightjar wrote:

On 05/10/2011 20:46, Dave wrote:
Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a
stop in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not
taught to use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right
gear at all times?

I am told that, these days, you would fail the advanced motorist test
if you slowed down through the gears. Apparently, many drivers are not
that good at judging when the car in front is slowing or stopped if
there are no brake lights to tell them.

Colin Bignell

Seems like the test is penalising the wrong party. I find it hard to
believe people cannot see a car slowing down.

Hmm, well if they're slowing down, umm, slowly, and they're quite far
ahead then I suppose it might be hard to judge based simply on the
closing distance between the vehicles. But in that situation you're not
close enough to pile into the back of them, and there should be other
indications anyway - e.g. hazard up ahead, stop up ahead, side-road/
driveway ahead and their indicator is on etc., and that's without
noticing the front end of their vehicle dip slightly as it slows.

Anyone who can't see that the car in front is stopped simply because they
aren't showing any brake lights shouldn't be on the road anyway - other
hazards that might be in the road, such as small children, generally
don't have brake lights :/

cheers

Jules

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 23:31:16 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Nightjar wrote:

On 05/10/2011 20:46, Dave wrote:
Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a
stop in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not
taught to use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right
gear at all times?

I am told that, these days, you would fail the advanced motorist test
if you slowed down through the gears. Apparently, many drivers are not
that good at judging when the car in front is slowing or stopped if
there are no brake lights to tell them.

Colin Bignell

Seems like the test is penalising the wrong party. I find it hard to
believe people cannot see a car slowing down.

Hmm, well if they're slowing down, umm, slowly, and they're quite far
ahead then I suppose it might be hard to judge based simply on the
closing distance between the vehicles. But in that situation you're not
close enough to pile into the back of them, and there should be other
indications anyway - e.g. hazard up ahead, stop up ahead, side-road/
driveway ahead and their indicator is on etc., and that's without
noticing the front end of their vehicle dip slightly as it slows.

Anyone who can't see that the car in front is stopped simply because they
aren't showing any brake lights shouldn't be on the road anyway - other
hazards that might be in the road, such as small children, generally
don't have brake lights :/

When stopped at lights (handbrake) I keep an eye on the rear-view mirror for
the numpty. When he appears I dab the pedal to suggest he might like to slow
down. Prolly another futile excercise but it's chaos out there and full of
morons, I'm just trying to protect myself.

On 06/10/2011 14:09, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 23:31:16 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Nightjar wrote:

On 05/10/2011 20:46, Dave wrote:
Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a
stop in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not
taught to use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right
gear at all times?

I am told that, these days, you would fail the advanced motorist test
if you slowed down through the gears. Apparently, many drivers are not
that good at judging when the car in front is slowing or stopped if
there are no brake lights to tell them.

Colin Bignell

Seems like the test is penalising the wrong party. I find it hard to
believe people cannot see a car slowing down.

Hmm, well if they're slowing down, umm, slowly, and they're quite far
ahead then I suppose it might be hard to judge based simply on the
closing distance between the vehicles. But in that situation you're not
close enough to pile into the back of them, and there should be other
indications anyway - e.g. hazard up ahead, stop up ahead, side-road/
driveway ahead and their indicator is on etc., and that's without
noticing the front end of their vehicle dip slightly as it slows.

Anyone who can't see that the car in front is stopped simply because they
aren't showing any brake lights shouldn't be on the road anyway - other
hazards that might be in the road, such as small children, generally
don't have brake lights :/

Defensive driving requires that you take precautions to allow for the
driver who does not do what they should.

Colin Bignell

On 06/10/2011 08:22, Norman Billingham wrote:
On 05/10/2011 23:20, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/10/2011 20:46, Dave wrote:
Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a stop
in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not taught to
use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right gear at all
times?

I am told that, these days, you would fail the advanced motorist test if
you slowed down through the gears. Apparently, many drivers are not that
good at judging when the car in front is slowing or stopped if there are
no brake lights to tell them.

Colin Bignell

Not so new. When I was preparing for the advanced test in 1965, my
instructor who was Hendon police trained, taught me that the brakes are
used for slowing the car and that going down through the gears is wrong.
His argument again was that drive trains are expensive and brakes are
cheap. Brake fade hasn’t been a problem for modern hydraulic braking
systems in any normal UK conditions for a long time.

Slowing through the gears dates back to the days of rod operated drum
brakes. If you managed to get those to slow you in a straight line, you
were either quite lucky or a very good and extremely patient mechanic.

Colin Bignell

In message , Nightjar
writes
On 05/10/2011 20:46, Dave wrote:
Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a stop
in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not taught to
use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right gear at all
times?

I am told that, these days, you would fail the advanced motorist test
if you slowed down through the gears. Apparently, many drivers are not
that good at judging when the car in front is slowing or stopped if
there are no brake lights to tell them.

Colin Bignell
It's easy - you feel a bit of a bump.
--
hugh

In message , Norman Billingham
writes
On 05/10/2011 23:20, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/10/2011 20:46, Dave wrote:
Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a stop
in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not taught to
use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right gear at all
times?

I am told that, these days, you would fail the advanced motorist test if
you slowed down through the gears. Apparently, many drivers are not that
good at judging when the car in front is slowing or stopped if there are
no brake lights to tell them.

Colin Bignell

Not so new. When I was preparing for the advanced test in 1965, my
instructor who was Hendon police trained, taught me that the brakes are
used for slowing the car and that going down through the gears is
wrong. His argument again was that drive trains are expensive and
brakes are cheap. Brake fade hasnt been a problem for modern
hydraulic braking systems in any normal UK conditions for a long time.
So how many people in this thread have broken a drive train changing
down (in normal driving)?
--
hugh

hugh wrote:
In message , Norman Billingham
writes
On 05/10/2011 23:20, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/10/2011 20:46, Dave wrote:
Are they all taught to stand on the foot brake when they come to a stop
in traffic, instead of using the hand brake and are they not taught to
use the gear box for slowing down, so they are in the right gear at all
times?

I am told that, these days, you would fail the advanced motorist test if
you slowed down through the gears. Apparently, many drivers are not that
good at judging when the car in front is slowing or stopped if there are
no brake lights to tell them.

Colin Bignell

Not so new. When I was preparing for the advanced test in 1965, my
instructor who was Hendon police trained, taught me that the brakes
are used for slowing the car and that going down through the gears is
wrong. His argument again was that drive trains are expensive and
brakes are cheap. Brake fade hasnt been a problem for modern
hydraulic braking systems in any normal UK conditions for a long time.
So how many people in this thread have broken a drive train changing
down (in normal driving)?
only drive train I ever fixed was a ripped off half shaft in ex GF's
midget. Admitted to revving the guts out of it and dropping the clutch.

On Oct 6, 11:10*pm, hugh ] wrote:

So how many people in this thread have broken a drive train changing
down (in normal driving)?

Citroen XM. Lost top (!?) gear when I went down from 4th into 3rd
around a roundabout. Seemed to work afterwards though and I drove it
for a final thousand miles around Ireland just as a four speed.

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 14:30:49 +0100, "brass monkey" wrote:

When stopped at lights (handbrake) I keep an eye on the rear-view mirror for
the numpty. When he appears I dab the pedal to suggest he might like to slow
down. Prolly another futile excercise but it's chaos out there and full of
morons, I'm just trying to protect myself.

I had a Commer van which operated the brake lights when the handbrake
was on. I thought it was a good thing, but probably gave people the
impression I was one of those fools who sit with their foot on the
brake pedal at the lights.

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 23:10:20 +0100, hugh ] wrote:

So how many people in this thread have broken a drive train changing
down (in normal driving)?

Never happened yet.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 23:10:20 +0100, hugh ] wrote:

So how many people in this thread have broken a drive train changing
down (in normal driving)?

Never happened yet.
I;ll go further, I had a van with a siezed clutch. I started it in first
gear, It took me three applications of max revs, then stand on the
brakes and clutch before the plate freed up with an almighty bang. The
transmission took it

Max torques is on the half shafts. they can and do go. Nothing else is
anything like so stressed..

The only exception to that is the main (lasyshaft?) nut on a maxi
gearbox that can unwind and mill out the end of the gearbox under
overrun,. If the *******s at BMC hadn't put the locking nut on, which
they didnt.

On Oct 6, 11:10*pm, hugh ] wrote:
So how many people in this thread have broken a drive train changing
down (in normal driving)?

Series II Landies (the one with the weak gearbox shaft, with the
stress riser). Loads of the buggers

On Oct 6, 11:10*pm, hugh ] wrote:
So how many people in this thread have broken a drive train changing
down (in normal driving)?

....and another one. Mk 1 Tran****, with the original V4 engine.
Changing down to climb the sliproad off the M62 and couldn't get it
into 3rd. Couldn't get it back into 4th either. Or 2nd. Or (by this
time I'm rolling down the hard shoulder) 1st. Dad is remonstrating
with me for my crap learner driving, and breaking another of his vans.

Looking behind us showed a trail of assorted cogs lying down the
carriageway, and a gearbox housing that had cracked in two and the two
halves moved clean apart. At least the propshaft had stayed attached.

On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 08:22:45 -0700, Andy Dingley wrote:
Looking behind us showed a trail of assorted cogs lying down the
carriageway, and a gearbox housing that had cracked in two and the two
halves moved clean apart. At least the propshaft had stayed attached.

aka "mechanical poo" :-)