I have little DIY or painting/plastering knowledge, so maybe people
here can help me..

Over the last couple of months a painter/decorator has been working in
my property doing refurbishment, one day a week every couple of weeks.
He skimmed half of a hallways with new plaster but the other half
(which was coated in a textured paint) he took an electronic sander
to. It took an age to sand out the rough bits of the wall, he would
paint the sanded area then look for imperfections, then fill, then
paint.

Something he said, almost at the end of this job, put terror into my
heart. His words were 'when sanding, you could feel the sander hitting
the artex, making the job very difficult'. I haven't seen him yet to
clarify what 'hitting' means, but I assume if a sander hits artex, it
sands, although he said something to suggest the sander wouldn't sand
artex, that it kept stopping when it did?. Lots of dust was created
from the sanding, although 80% of it was vacumned up at the end of the
day, loads of it remained in the air for a while before settling, some
getting on my possessions etc.

Looking at the walls, they retained their green colour even after
sanding, so I assume what was being sanded was uneven pieces of
plaster, lumps of paint and *possibly* traces of artex that was left
over from what was an artex wall a long time ago.

I sent 4 samples to a testing company,

- dust that was vacumned up (not including dust in HEPA filter)
- dust on a railing (probably not original sanded dust though)
- Artex on wallpaper from behind Radiator
- A lump of artex from behind radiator (cracked a bit off after
wetting)

The artex samples from behind the radiator both tested positive for
white asbestos, but the vacumn cleaner dust and railing dust both
tested negative.

After sending the samples, I remembered that two years prior I had
cleaned behind the radiators with a crevice causing bits of artex to
break off. I hoovered that up in the vacumn cleaner I still use now. I
didn't know artex had asbestos in at the time.

I have being trying to think my way through this for a week and am now
stuck. Options that are in my mind include

- Questioning the painter about what exactly was sanded.
- Sending off more samples for testing from different parts of the
room and the hepa filter of the vacumn cleaner used to clean the dust.
- Cleaning every surface in the house with a wet cloth.
- Hiring a Type H Asbestos Vacumn cleaner and going through the house.
- After vacumning with Type H, disposing of carpets in affected areas
(they are largely old and dirty, so this isn't a problem)
- Disposing of domestic vacumn cleaner.

I was hoping that the asbestos test would be definitive, but the man
responsible for the testing suggested that vacumn cleaner dust may be
too contaminated for any reliable result, and I don't think the
railing sample was original sander dust. I have found more of the
original sanding dust, so am wondering if more tests are in order, or
whether I should just just hire the Type H vacumn cleaner and dispose
of the domestic one used repeatedly for the sanding cleanup.

If you are knowledgeable in this area, please help.

--
Michael Mould

On Oct 4, 9:47*pm, Unimobiles.com wrote:


The artex samples from behind the radiator both tested positive for
white asbestos, but the vacumn cleaner dust and railing dust both
tested negative.

Search the HSE website. Some sensible advice on how to DIY with white
asbestos. It's no big deal.

Unimobiles. com wrote:

I have little DIY or painting/plastering knowledge, so maybe people
here can help me..

Over the last couple of months a painter/decorator has been working in
my property doing refurbishment, one day a week every couple of weeks.
He skimmed half of a hallways with new plaster but the other half
(which was coated in a textured paint) he took an electronic sander
to. It took an age to sand out the rough bits of the wall, he would
paint the sanded area then look for imperfections, then fill, then
paint.

Something he said, almost at the end of this job, put terror into my
heart. His words were 'when sanding, you could feel the sander hitting
the artex, making the job very difficult'. I haven't seen him yet to
clarify what 'hitting' means, but I assume if a sander hits artex, it
sands, although he said something to suggest the sander wouldn't sand
artex, that it kept stopping when it did?. Lots of dust was created
from the sanding, although 80% of it was vacumned up at the end of the
day, loads of it remained in the air for a while before settling, some
getting on my possessions etc.

Looking at the walls, they retained their green colour even after
sanding, so I assume what was being sanded was uneven pieces of
plaster, lumps of paint and *possibly* traces of artex that was left
over from what was an artex wall a long time ago.

I sent 4 samples to a testing company,

- dust that was vacumned up (not including dust in HEPA filter)
- dust on a railing (probably not original sanded dust though)
- Artex on wallpaper from behind Radiator
- A lump of artex from behind radiator (cracked a bit off after
wetting)

The artex samples from behind the radiator both tested positive for
white asbestos, but the vacumn cleaner dust and railing dust both
tested negative.

After sending the samples, I remembered that two years prior I had
cleaned behind the radiators with a crevice causing bits of artex to
break off. I hoovered that up in the vacumn cleaner I still use now. I
didn't know artex had asbestos in at the time.

I have being trying to think my way through this for a week and am now
stuck. Options that are in my mind include

- Questioning the painter about what exactly was sanded.
- Sending off more samples for testing from different parts of the
room and the hepa filter of the vacumn cleaner used to clean the dust.
- Cleaning every surface in the house with a wet cloth.
- Hiring a Type H Asbestos Vacumn cleaner and going through the house.
- After vacumning with Type H, disposing of carpets in affected areas
(they are largely old and dirty, so this isn't a problem)
- Disposing of domestic vacumn cleaner.

I was hoping that the asbestos test would be definitive, but the man
responsible for the testing suggested that vacumn cleaner dust may be
too contaminated for any reliable result, and I don't think the
railing sample was original sander dust. I have found more of the
original sanding dust, so am wondering if more tests are in order, or
whether I should just just hire the Type H vacumn cleaner and dispose
of the domestic one used repeatedly for the sanding cleanup.

If you are knowledgeable in this area, please help.

I'm not an expert - but there seem to be two conclusions:

1) The artex does contain white asbestos;

2) The amount of this present in the hoovered dust was too low to measure.

I'd be a little concerned about 1) but 2 suggests very little artex was
actually sanded and the air concentrations might well have been tiny. And
white asbestos isn't as evil as the other forms.



--
Tim Watts

On Oct 4, 9:47*pm, Unimobiles.com wrote:
I have little DIY or painting/plastering knowledge, so maybe people
here can help me..

Over the last couple of months a painter/decorator has been working in
my property doing refurbishment, one day a week every couple of weeks.
He skimmed half of a hallways with new plaster but the other half
(which was coated in a textured paint) he took an electronic sander
to. It took an age to sand out the rough bits of the wall, he would
paint the sanded area then look for imperfections, then fill, then
paint.

Something he said, almost at the end of this job, put terror into my
heart. His words were 'when sanding, you could feel the sander hitting
the artex, making the job very difficult'. I haven't seen him yet to
clarify what 'hitting' means, but I assume if a sander hits artex, it
sands, although he said something to suggest the sander wouldn't sand
artex, that it kept stopping when it did?. Lots of dust was created
from the sanding, although 80% of it was vacumned up at the end of the
day, loads of it remained in the air for a while before settling, some
getting on my possessions etc.

Looking at the walls, they retained their green colour even after
sanding, so I assume what was being sanded was uneven pieces of
plaster, lumps of paint and *possibly* traces of artex that was left
over from what was an artex wall a long time ago.

I sent 4 samples to a testing company,

- dust that was vacumned up (not including dust in HEPA filter)
- dust on a railing (probably not original sanded dust though)
- Artex on wallpaper from behind Radiator
- A lump of artex from behind radiator (cracked a bit off after
wetting)

The artex samples from behind the radiator both tested positive for
white asbestos, but the vacumn cleaner dust and railing dust both
tested negative.

After sending the samples, I remembered that two years prior I had
cleaned behind the radiators with a crevice causing bits of artex to
break off. I hoovered that up in the vacumn cleaner I still use now. I
didn't know artex had asbestos in at the time.

I have being trying to think my way through this for a week and am now
stuck. Options that are in my mind include

- Questioning the painter about what exactly was sanded.
- Sending off more samples for testing from different parts of the
room and the hepa filter of the vacumn cleaner used to clean the dust.
- Cleaning every surface in the house with a wet cloth.
- Hiring a Type H Asbestos Vacumn cleaner and going through the house.
- After vacumning with Type H, disposing of carpets in affected areas
(they are largely old and dirty, so this isn't a problem)
- Disposing of domestic vacumn cleaner.

I was hoping that the asbestos test would be definitive, but the man
responsible for the testing suggested that vacumn cleaner dust may be
too contaminated for any reliable result, and I don't think the
railing sample was original sander dust. I have found more of the
original sanding dust, so am wondering if more tests are in order, or
whether I should just just hire the Type H vacumn cleaner *and dispose
of the domestic one used repeatedly for the sanding cleanup.

If you are knowledgeable in this area, please help.

--
Michael Mould

I used to deal with asbestos in the NHS.
All forms of asbestos are considered equally bad.

Older Artex did have asbestos fibre in it to bind the stuff together.
Lots of things in you house can also have it from toilet seats to
floor tiles to
your electric cooker/boiler/as fire/garage roof..

Samples sent away are normally "bulk samples", ie a lump of the
suspect material, not scrapings off the floor. They have to be double
wrapped and clearly marked what they are so someone does not open
them.

Sanding Artex is definitely a bad idea, if it was an industrial
situation the decorator could be prosecuted. But what's done is done.

The areas sanded need to be sealed with paint or PVA solution. This
would normally be done by someone with protective gear. (disposable
overalls face mask etc. Then the house needs to be vacuumed out using
a vacuum with a high efficiency filter. (HEP Easily available)
In a commercial/industrial situation, air samples would then be
taken. A little fan draws air through a filter. A fixative is sprayed
on the filter and it is taken away to be microscopically examined to
see if asbestos is still floating around your place.
The problem with involving the HSE or anyone else "official" is that
they could cost you a lot of dosh.
When I was at work asbestos was taken seriously, even more so now from
what I hear. (Two people were recently sacked for failing to keep the
paperwork up to date.)

Maybe you could get some crafty advice from the HSE anonymously by
telephone but don't let on who you are unless you want some serious
grief and big bills. Maybe the decorator should pay?

On Oct 4, 9:47*pm, Unimobiles.com wrote:
I have little DIY or painting/plastering knowledge, so maybe people
here can help me..

Over the last couple of months a painter/decorator has been working in
my property doing refurbishment, one day a week every couple of weeks.
He skimmed half of a hallways with new plaster but the other half
(which was coated in a textured paint) he took an electronic sander
to. It took an age to sand out the rough bits of the wall, he would
paint the sanded area then look for imperfections, then fill, then
paint.

Something he said, almost at the end of this job, put terror into my
heart. His words were 'when sanding, you could feel the sander hitting
the artex, making the job very difficult'. I haven't seen him yet to
clarify what 'hitting' means, but I assume if a sander hits artex, it
sands, although he said something to suggest the sander wouldn't sand
artex, that it kept stopping when it did?. Lots of dust was created
from the sanding, although 80% of it was vacumned up at the end of the
day, loads of it remained in the air for a while before settling, some
getting on my possessions etc.

Looking at the walls, they retained their green colour even after
sanding, so I assume what was being sanded was uneven pieces of
plaster, lumps of paint and *possibly* traces of artex that was left
over from what was an artex wall a long time ago.

I sent 4 samples to a testing company,

- dust that was vacumned up (not including dust in HEPA filter)
- dust on a railing (probably not original sanded dust though)
- Artex on wallpaper from behind Radiator
- A lump of artex from behind radiator (cracked a bit off after
wetting)

The artex samples from behind the radiator both tested positive for
white asbestos, but the vacumn cleaner dust and railing dust both
tested negative.

After sending the samples, I remembered that two years prior I had
cleaned behind the radiators with a crevice causing bits of artex to
break off. I hoovered that up in the vacumn cleaner I still use now. I
didn't know artex had asbestos in at the time.

I have being trying to think my way through this for a week and am now
stuck. Options that are in my mind include

- Questioning the painter about what exactly was sanded.
- Sending off more samples for testing from different parts of the
room and the hepa filter of the vacumn cleaner used to clean the dust.
- Cleaning every surface in the house with a wet cloth.
- Hiring a Type H Asbestos Vacumn cleaner and going through the house.
- After vacumning with Type H, disposing of carpets in affected areas
(they are largely old and dirty, so this isn't a problem)
- Disposing of domestic vacumn cleaner.

I was hoping that the asbestos test would be definitive, but the man
responsible for the testing suggested that vacumn cleaner dust may be
too contaminated for any reliable result, and I don't think the
railing sample was original sander dust. I have found more of the
original sanding dust, so am wondering if more tests are in order, or
whether I should just just hire the Type H vacumn cleaner *and dispose
of the domestic one used repeatedly for the sanding cleanup.

If you are knowledgeable in this area, please help.

--
Michael Mould

Whats done is done - if you have inhaled fibres you have a chance they
will kill you one day. On the other hand they may not lead to anything
at all or you could die from something entriely unrelated. Fretting
about this is not going to alter the situation and will only cause
stress in you and your family. Relax and enjoy life to the full

On 05/10/2011 08:21, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 21:47:45 +0100, Unimobiles.com
wrote:



The artex samples from behind the radiator both tested positive for
white asbestos, but the vacumn cleaner dust and railing dust both
tested negative.

Relax and forget about it. The real nasty is blue or brown asbestos.

There are two types of asbestos which are actually two very different
minerals, but both have a fibrous structure. Blue (and brown) asbestos
is the mineral crocidolite, which is highly fibrous, forming very long
thin fibres which penetrate into the smallest recesses of the lungs.
They do not dissolve in the normal mildly acidic body fluids that line
the lung. Hence they hang around for ever and the body tries to get
rid of them but can't and a tumor develops. White asbestos is the
mineral chrysotile, closely related to serpentine, and although it has
a fibrous structure, the fibres are shorter than those of blue
asbestos. It is also soluble in the fluids that line the lungs and
will dissolve and disappear in about a year, so doesn't cause anything
like the same problems as blue asbestos.

The fact that both types are called asbestos is what alarms people,
when white asbestos is probably no more harmful than any other dust
encountered in industry, such as coal, silica, bagasse etc., all of
which can cause various forms of pneumoconiosis (e.g anthracosis,
silicosis, bagassosis, and asbestosis) if inhaled in excess over long
periods. Blue asbestos causes mesothelioma.


+1

I used to deal with asbestos in the NHS.
All forms of asbestos are considered equally bad.

Not by people who know what they are talking about

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 13:05:26 -0700 (PDT), cynic
wrote:

Whats done is done - if you have inhaled fibres you have a chance they
will kill you one day. On the other hand they may not lead to anything
at all or you could die from something entriely unrelated. Fretting
about this is not going to alter the situation and will only cause
stress in you and your family. Relax and enjoy life to the full

Thanks to everyone for the good advice on here. I've found a place to
hire a Type H Vacuum cleaner and will slowly and carefully wipe clean
all the surfaces and vacuum the entire house as a precautionary
measure.

I'm also intend buy a new HEPA domestic vac after the cleanup as the
one I have has seen better days.
--
Michael

On Oct 5, 9:05*pm, cynic wrote:
On Oct 4, 9:47*pm, Unimobiles.com wrote:





I have little DIY or painting/plastering knowledge, so maybe people
here can help me..

Over the last couple of months a painter/decorator has been working in
my property doing refurbishment, one day a week every couple of weeks.
He skimmed half of a hallways with new plaster but the other half
(which was coated in a textured paint) he took an electronic sander
to. It took an age to sand out the rough bits of the wall, he would
paint the sanded area then look for imperfections, then fill, then
paint.

Something he said, almost at the end of this job, put terror into my
heart. His words were 'when sanding, you could feel the sander hitting
the artex, making the job very difficult'. I haven't seen him yet to
clarify what 'hitting' means, but I assume if a sander hits artex, it
sands, although he said something to suggest the sander wouldn't sand
artex, that it kept stopping when it did?. Lots of dust was created
from the sanding, although 80% of it was vacumned up at the end of the
day, loads of it remained in the air for a while before settling, some
getting on my possessions etc.

Looking at the walls, they retained their green colour even after
sanding, so I assume what was being sanded was uneven pieces of
plaster, lumps of paint and *possibly* traces of artex that was left
over from what was an artex wall a long time ago.

I sent 4 samples to a testing company,

- dust that was vacumned up (not including dust in HEPA filter)
- dust on a railing (probably not original sanded dust though)
- Artex on wallpaper from behind Radiator
- A lump of artex from behind radiator (cracked a bit off after
wetting)

The artex samples from behind the radiator both tested positive for
white asbestos, but the vacumn cleaner dust and railing dust both
tested negative.

After sending the samples, I remembered that two years prior I had
cleaned behind the radiators with a crevice causing bits of artex to
break off. I hoovered that up in the vacumn cleaner I still use now. I
didn't know artex had asbestos in at the time.

I have being trying to think my way through this for a week and am now
stuck. Options that are in my mind include

- Questioning the painter about what exactly was sanded.
- Sending off more samples for testing from different parts of the
room and the hepa filter of the vacumn cleaner used to clean the dust.
- Cleaning every surface in the house with a wet cloth.
- Hiring a Type H Asbestos Vacumn cleaner and going through the house.
- After vacumning with Type H, disposing of carpets in affected areas
(they are largely old and dirty, so this isn't a problem)
- Disposing of domestic vacumn cleaner.

I was hoping that the asbestos test would be definitive, but the man
responsible for the testing suggested that vacumn cleaner dust may be
too contaminated for any reliable result, and I don't think the
railing sample was original sander dust. I have found more of the
original sanding dust, so am wondering if more tests are in order, or
whether I should just just hire the Type H vacumn cleaner *and dispose
of the domestic one used repeatedly for the sanding cleanup.

If you are knowledgeable in this area, please help.

--
Michael Mould

Whats done is done - if you have inhaled fibres you have a chance they
will kill you one day. On the other hand they may not lead to anything
at all or you could die from something entriely unrelated. Fretting
about this is not going to alter the situation and will only cause
stress in you and your family. Relax and enjoy life to the full- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The stuff is everywhere. The biggest culprits were cars, (brake and
clutch linings). It will be blowing about forever.
There is a place in Canada where asbestos outcrops from the ground. I
think it is abandoned nowsince this was discovered.

On Oct 5, 8:56*am, harry wrote:

I used to deal with asbestos in *the NHS.
All forms of asbestos are considered equally bad.

Sadly you're probably quite correct to report this. However it's not
clear whether that was because you were a fool to consider them thus,
or if it was NHS policy to be naively alarmist.

On Oct 5, 11:21*pm, Unimobiles.com wrote:

I'm also intend buy a new HEPA domestic vac after the cleanup as the
one I have has seen better days.

A cheap wallpaper steam stripper might be worth it too, if you're
looking to remove Artex without a dust hazard.

On Oct 6, 10:57*am, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Oct 5, 8:56*am, harry wrote:

I used to deal with asbestos in *the NHS.
All forms of asbestos are considered equally bad.

Sadly you're probably quite correct to report this. However it's not
clear whether that was because you were a fool to consider them thus,
or if it was NHS policy to be naively alarmist.

We dealt with the HSE. Our policy was dictated by them, exactly the
same as anyone else. As it was a hospital, we adhered to it exactly
with no short cuts. We removed tons of asbestos.
In the early days the HSE made a big song and dance about the relative
merits of crocidolite amosite and chrysotile.
It was all ******** because they were often mixed. So in the end it
was decided (by the HSE) not to diferentiate between them.

I often wondered if this glass and mineral wool we are all stuffing
into our roofs will not turn out tob e as bad. There is already a
question mark over glass wool. Bit here on the topic.
http://www.rooftherm.co.uk/index2.ph...do_pdf=1&id=16

On Oct 6, 10:58*am, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Oct 5, 11:21*pm, Unimobiles.com wrote:

I'm also intend buy a new HEPA domestic vac after the cleanup as the
one I have has seen better days.

A cheap wallpaper steam stripper might be worth it too, if you're
looking to remove Artex without a dust hazard.

The problem is afterwards when the sludgy bits have dried out.
Recomended in private house is to seal it in and mark it not to be
disturbed.
Problem is, it would be illegal not to notify any would be buyer about
the hazard.
Now you have found out it becomes a problem. When you didn't know, it
wasn't.

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 08:44:03 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:


I often wondered if this glass and mineral wool we are all stuffing
into our roofs will not turn out tob e as bad. There is already a
question mark over glass wool. Bit here on the topic.
http://www.rooftherm.co.uk/index2.ph...do_pdf=1&id=16

Huh; I've been saying this for years, after noticing how elderly
fibreglass insulation crumbles to dust (and fills the air) at the
slightest touch. I never venture into an attic space without a dust
mask and haven't done for ages.

On 09/10/2011 13:50, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 08:44:03 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:


I often wondered if this glass and mineral wool we are all stuffing
into our roofs will not turn out tob e as bad. There is already a
question mark over glass wool. Bit here on the topic.
http://www.rooftherm.co.uk/index2.ph...do_pdf=1&id=16

Huh; I've been saying this for years, after noticing how elderly
fibreglass insulation crumbles to dust (and fills the air) at the
slightest touch. I never venture into an attic space without a dust
mask and haven't done for ages.

I wonder how people get on in countries where sand or marble dust is
constantly blown about by the wind.

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 14:28:00 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:

I wonder how people get on in countries where sand or marble dust is
constantly blown about by the wind.

I'd think the vast majority of the time it doesn't, or they're
indoors.
Notwithstanding, I'd hazard a guess the rate of silicosis or similar
is higher than here, for example.