I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The conflict
seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.

Anyone able to throw any light (sorry!) on which would be more appropriate?

I'm also getting conflicting opinions on panel manufacturers with some
knocking Chinese manufactured panels such as Suntech and others telling
me that German Schuco have issues. Again, any enlightenment(!) would be
welcome.

--
F

F wrote:
I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The conflict
seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.

Anyone able to throw any light (sorry!) on which would be more appropriate?

Neither, because your roof faces west, there will not be enough light on
it to generate much power until well after noon.

Output will be well below optimum no matter which panel you use. Your
only real option unless you're off grid and genuinely have no south
facing roof space or spare ground is to put the array on its own support
away from the building.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 31/08/2011 13:34 John Williamson wrote:

F wrote:
I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The
conflict seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.

Anyone able to throw any light (sorry!) on which would be more
appropriate?

Neither, because your roof faces west, there will not be enough light on
it to generate much power until well after noon.

Output will be well below optimum no matter which panel you use. Your
only real option unless you're off grid and genuinely have no south
facing roof space or spare ground is to put the array on its own support
away from the building.

West-facing means a reduction of 15% in power generated:
http://www.upvccompany.co.uk/solar_p...calculator.htm and
http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps3/pvest.php#

But the question was about monocrystalline v polycrystalline.

--
F

On Aug 31, 11:48*am, F news@nowhere wrote:
I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The conflict
seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.

Anyone able to throw any light (sorry!) on which would be more appropriate?

I'm also getting conflicting opinions on panel manufacturers with some
knocking Chinese manufactured panels such as Suntech and others telling
me that German Schuco have issues. Again, any enlightenment(!) would be
welcome.

--
F

I have a 3.88 Kw array. The monocrystaliine panels are slightly
smaller than the polycrystaline as they are more efficient. The
junctions between the crystals cause an energy loss on the
polycrystaline ones.

However monos are lots more expensive than polys.
So if you have plenty of room, go for the polys.
If space is tight go for the monos.
I have polys, I have lots of room.
Obviously you need to get as near to 4Kw as poss.

Re what make, who knows? Early days yet.
I went for Mitsubishi panels because I knew the name. They were more
expensive than the Chinese ones but hopefully still be about if I need
the guarantee.
Sharp makes them in the UK.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ara-chl...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ara-chl...in/photostream

If you email me I can send you the "How your PV output" is calculated
info.
There are a few of us on this group have PVarrays who keep in touch.
Apart from cowboy installers, nobody seems to have had major probs,
the technology seems OK.



PITFALLS

Be sure your mains voltage is checked. If high it can cause problems.

I had a roof leak that they caused, Be sure to check you are OK (go
in loft next time it rains.) I don't think this is a common problem.

Be sure the paperwork is put in in good time and that the firing up
date is the same as the start date on the application form. They
won't pay for electricity generated between the two dates if they are
different.
You need to be sure you have a 0000000 meter reading as the first
reading on the application form. Anything additional they won't pay
for it.

Find out exactly what paperwork your installer will do & what you have
to do.

On 31/08/2011 13:52 harry wrote:

On Aug 31, 11:48 am, Fnews@nowhere wrote:
I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The conflict
seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.

I have a 3.88 Kw array. The monocrystaliine panels are slightly
smaller than the polycrystaline as they are more efficient. The
junctions between the crystals cause an energy loss on the
polycrystaline ones.

However monos are lots more expensive than polys.
So if you have plenty of room, go for the polys.
If space is tight go for the monos.
I have polys, I have lots of room.
Obviously you need to get as near to 4Kw as poss.

Thanks. I was being told that polys (or was it monos?) were preferred
for the west-facing as they worked better in less-direct/less intense
sunlight. Does that sound about right?

--
F

On Aug 31, 6:48*pm, F news@nowhere wrote:
On 31/08/2011 13:52 harry wrote:

On Aug 31, 11:48 am, Fnews@nowhere *wrote:
I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The conflict
seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.
I have a 3.88 Kw array. *The monocrystaliine panels are slightly
smaller than the polycrystaline as they are more efficient. The
junctions between the crystals cause an energy loss on the
polycrystaline ones.

However monos are lots more expensive than polys.
So if you have plenty of room, go for the polys.
If space is tight go for the monos.
I have polys, I have lots of room.
Obviously you need to get as near to 4Kw as poss.

Thanks. I was being told that polys (or was it monos?) were preferred
for the west-facing as they worked better in less-direct/less intense
sunlight. Does that sound about right?

--
F

I haven't heard that one so I can't say. Sounds unlikely either way.
Some guff here to read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid-tie_inverter

harry wrote:
On Aug 31, 6:48 pm, F news@nowhere wrote:
On 31/08/2011 13:52 harry wrote:

On Aug 31, 11:48 am, Fnews@nowhere wrote:
I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The conflict
seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.
I have a 3.88 Kw array. The monocrystaliine panels are slightly
smaller than the polycrystaline as they are more efficient. The
junctions between the crystals cause an energy loss on the
polycrystaline ones.
However monos are lots more expensive than polys.
So if you have plenty of room, go for the polys.
If space is tight go for the monos.
I have polys, I have lots of room.
Obviously you need to get as near to 4Kw as poss.
Thanks. I was being told that polys (or was it monos?) were preferred
for the west-facing as they worked better in less-direct/less intense
sunlight. Does that sound about right?

--
F

I haven't heard that one so I can't say. Sounds unlikely either way.
Some guff here to read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid-tie_inverter
]#

Its ********.

On Aug 31, 6:48*pm, F news@nowhere wrote:
On 31/08/2011 13:52 harry wrote:

On Aug 31, 11:48 am, Fnews@nowhere *wrote:
I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The conflict
seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.
I have a 3.88 Kw array. *The monocrystaliine panels are slightly
smaller than the polycrystaline as they are more efficient. The
junctions between the crystals cause an energy loss on the
polycrystaline ones.

However monos are lots more expensive than polys.
So if you have plenty of room, go for the polys.
If space is tight go for the monos.
I have polys, I have lots of room.
Obviously you need to get as near to 4Kw as poss.

Thanks. I was being told that polys (or was it monos?) were preferred
for the west-facing as they worked better in less-direct/less intense
sunlight. Does that sound about right?

--
F

One that sort of theme, they are more efficient when cold. So
powermax is on a cold, cloudless day with a bit of a breeze..

On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 18:48:04 +0100, F news@nowhere wrote:


Thanks. I was being told that polys (or was it monos?) were preferred
for the west-facing as they worked better in less-direct/less intense
sunlight. Does that sound about right?

There isn't much difference, ultimately you are generating subsidies,
not worthwhile amounts of electricity. The thing you do need to be
very careful of is shading. A characteristic of PV the sellers do not
make clear is that even a small amount of shade anywhere on the panel
can dramatically reduce the whole array output. Think of the panels
as being a very long hosepipe - wherever you stand on it stops the
water flowing.

Any shade from trees or anything else _anywhere_ on any single panel
in the array will reduce the whole array output by far more than you
may think it would.

On Aug 31, 11:02*pm, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 18:48:04 +0100, F news@nowhere wrote:

Thanks. I was being told that polys (or was it monos?) were preferred
for the west-facing as they worked better in less-direct/less intense
sunlight. Does that sound about right?

There isn't much difference, ultimately you are generating subsidies,
not worthwhile amounts of electricity. *The thing you do need to be
very careful of is shading. *A characteristic of PV the sellers do not
make clear is that *even a small amount of shade anywhere on the panel
can dramatically reduce the whole array output. *Think of the panels
as being a very long hosepipe - wherever you stand on it stops the
water flowing.

Any shade from trees or anything else _anywhere_ on any single panel
in the array will reduce the whole array output by far more than you
may think it would.

Yes shadows business is true. Every thing about the expected output
can be calculated, shadowing is often guessed. Wheather is the other
problematic thing.

On small arrays the panels are normally all in series.
When voltage generated falls below peak voltage of grid, system shuts
down.

On Aug 31, 11:02*pm, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 18:48:04 +0100, F news@nowhere wrote:

Thanks. I was being told that polys (or was it monos?) were preferred
for the west-facing as they worked better in less-direct/less intense
sunlight. Does that sound about right?

There isn't much difference, ultimately you are generating subsidies,
not worthwhile amounts of electricity. *The thing you do need to be
very careful of is shading. *A characteristic of PV the sellers do not
make clear is that *even a small amount of shade anywhere on the panel
can dramatically reduce the whole array output.

Surely they are connected in parallel are they not? A small amount
of shade on one panel indeed reduces its output hugely, but that that
form the unshaded ones unless they are wired in series.

I used to have PV arrays on my houseboat to charge 12V batteries (no
mains).
Robert

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 02:57:06 -0700 (PDT), RobertL
wrote:

Surely they are connected in parallel are they not? A small amount
of shade on one panel indeed reduces its output hugely, but that that
form the unshaded ones unless they are wired in series.

Wiring in series is the preferred option by UK installers for domestic
grid tied systems. It is the cheapest and quickest method and does
not require thick wire to overcome voltage drop.

On Sep 2, 10:57*am, RobertL wrote:
On Aug 31, 11:02*pm, Peter Parry wrote:

On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 18:48:04 +0100, F news@nowhere wrote:

Thanks. I was being told that polys (or was it monos?) were preferred
for the west-facing as they worked better in less-direct/less intense
sunlight. Does that sound about right?

There isn't much difference, ultimately you are generating subsidies,
not worthwhile amounts of electricity. *The thing you do need to be
very careful of is shading. *A characteristic of PV the sellers do not
make clear is that *even a small amount of shade anywhere on the panel
can dramatically reduce the whole array output.

Surely they are connected in parallel are they not? * A small amount
of shade on one panel indeed reduces its output hugely, but that that
form the unshaded ones unless they are wired in series.

I used to have PV arrays on my houseboat to charge 12V batteries (no
mains).
Robert

No they are series. When the voltage falls below peak mains volts
(about 350 volts) the system shuts down. Mine runs at 630 volts
nominal but has hit 680 .
The inverters are transformerless nowadays.

Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:

[snip]

Any shade from trees or anything else _anywhere_ on any single panel
in the array will reduce the whole array output by far more than you
may think it would.

Really? That's excellent news.

Yes, if someone were to throw plastic bags or balloons filled with paint
onto these PV cells the owners would be shafted whistles.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:

[snip]

Any shade from trees or anything else _anywhere_ on any single panel
in the array will reduce the whole array output by far more than you
may think it would.

Really? That's excellent news.

Yes, if someone were to throw plastic bags or balloons filled with paint
onto these PV cells the owners would be shafted whistles.

They would just put the price of insurance up.

In article , Tim
Streater scribeth thus
In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:

On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 18:48:04 +0100, F news@nowhere wrote:


Thanks. I was being told that polys (or was it monos?) were preferred
for the west-facing as they worked better in less-direct/less intense
sunlight. Does that sound about right?

There isn't much difference, ultimately you are generating subsidies,
not worthwhile amounts of electricity. The thing you do need to be
very careful of is shading. A characteristic of PV the sellers do not
make clear is that even a small amount of shade anywhere on the panel
can dramatically reduce the whole array output. Think of the panels
as being a very long hosepipe - wherever you stand on it stops the
water flowing.

Any shade from trees or anything else _anywhere_ on any single panel
in the array will reduce the whole array output by far more than you
may think it would.

Really? That's excellent news.

If there're series connected course they will!....
--
Tony Sayer

On 31/08/2011 18:48, F wrote:
Thanks. I was being told that polys (or was it monos?) were preferred
for the west-facing as they worked better in less-direct/less intense
sunlight. Does that sound about right?

I've also been told (by the installer) that they generate power from a
wider range of incident angles, but couldn't find any documentary
evidence of that. The main difference is that poly panels are cheaper
per kW but you need a bit more area as their intrinsic efficiency is a
bit lower. We had a large enough roof, so went for poly. Our panels
are German, a company called Solar World. They seem to have a good
track record, which I thought was important on something that only makes
economic sense in the long term. A number of firms from which we got
quotes said they were willing to fit cheaper panels made in China but
that they didn't have enough experience of them to recommend them for
the long term. It seems a fairly competitive business, so I guess you
get what you pay for, mostly.


--
Clive Page

On Sep 1, 11:45*am, Clive Page wrote:

I've also been told (by the installer) that they generate power from a
wider range of incident angles,

Try a cos^2 function for incident angle, as an approximation. There
are two main effects: obviously a panel on edge simply subtends a
smaller angle of sunlight. Secondly there's increased reflection from
the surface of the glass.

On Aug 31, 11:48*am, F news@nowhere wrote:
I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The conflict
seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.

Anyone able to throw any light (sorry!) on which would be more appropriate?

I'm also getting conflicting opinions on panel manufacturers with some
knocking Chinese manufactured panels such as Suntech and others telling
me that German Schuco have issues. Again, any enlightenment(!) would be
welcome.

--
F

Just remembered another pitfall.

Check on your quotes that they are suppling similar sized inverters.
Also add up the wattage of the panels and see that the inverter
coveres it.

The inverter can be supplied slightly too "small" (obviously cheaper
too) . It will protect itself but you will get a reduced power output
on ideal-weather days. (The peak over + or- 2hours @ midday is
clipped off)

In perfect weather the panel can go considerably over rated output
too. No need for you to loose this power and you may as well have
like for like quotes.

On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:15:37 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Aug 31, 11:48*am, F news@nowhere wrote:
I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The conflict
seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.

Anyone able to throw any light (sorry!) on which would be more appropriate?

I'm also getting conflicting opinions on panel manufacturers with some
knocking Chinese manufactured panels such as Suntech and others telling
me that German Schuco have issues. Again, any enlightenment(!) would be
welcome.

--
F

Just remembered another pitfall.

Check on your quotes that they are suppling similar sized inverters.
Also add up the wattage of the panels and see that the inverter
coveres it.

The inverter can be supplied slightly too "small" (obviously cheaper
too) . It will protect itself but you will get a reduced power output
on ideal-weather days. (The peak over + or- 2hours @ midday is
clipped off)

In perfect weather the panel can go considerably over rated output
too. No need for you to loose this power and you may as well have
like for like quotes.

As long as the inverter isn't grossly undersized it will make very
little difference to the total power generated.

Unbroken sunshine is not that common in the UK, which means that peak
panel output is quite infrequent hence the total loss of power due to
undersizing of the inverter is very small. You could guess that you
might lose 400W (4kW array, 3.6kW inverter) for 20 minutes a day,
130Whr per day or about 50kWhr per year. Insignificant when you can
expect to generate nearly 4000kWhr per year.

On those few days with unbroken sunshine the panels will get hot and
ouput will drop to below the inverter limitation.

I have a system with nominal 3.87kW peak output and a 3.8kW inverter.
Peak output from the inverter with broken cloud (cool panels) is
3.77kW, so some inverter limitation will be occuring. On the only
continuously sunny day that we've had since installation the peak
output was 3.288kW, some 15% below the nominal panel output and well
below the inverter maximum output.

On 31/08/2011 11:48 F wrote:

I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The conflict
seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.

Now, in addition to mon v poly, there are differing opinions on where to
site the panels.

We have three roofs which seem to be suitable:
- a south-facing roof (actually 170º) on top of the two storey main
building with an east-facing roof alongside which has a chimney on it
which would throw a shadow across the south-facing roof

- a west-facing (actually 260º) roof on top of the two storey main building

- a west-facing roof (actually 260º) on top of a single storey extension
which is built out from the two story main building.

Two quotes suggest using the two west-facing roofs, the third suggests
using the two top roofs: the top west-facing and the south-facing.

In the case of the two similar quotes, I am concerned that the lower
west facing roof will, effectively, be in the shadow of the wall above
it until midday. In the case of the south-facing plus west-facing quote,
I wonder about the effect of the chimney shadow as it moves across the
south-facing roof.

Anyone got any thoughts on the relative merits of the two proposals?

TIA.

--
F

On 05/09/2011 20:29 F wrote:

On 31/08/2011 11:48 F wrote:

I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The conflict
seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.

Now, in addition to mon v poly, there are differing opinions on where to
site the panels.

We have three roofs which seem to be suitable:
- a south-facing roof (actually 160º) on top of the two storey main
building with an east-facing roof alongside which has a chimney on it
which would throw a shadow across the south-facing roof

- a west-facing (actually 250º) roof on top of the two storey main building

- a west-facing roof (actually 250º) on top of a single storey extension
which is built out from the two story main building.

Two quotes suggest using the two west-facing roofs, the third suggests
using the two top roofs: the top west-facing and the south-facing.

In the case of the two similar quotes, I am concerned that the lower
west facing roof will, effectively, be in the shadow of the wall above
it until midday. In the case of the south-facing plus west-facing quote,
I wonder about the effect of the chimney shadow as it moves across the
south-facing roof.

Anyone got any thoughts on the relative merits of the two proposals?

TIA.

Anyone?

Just to add a little more into the equation, the roofs have a 23º pitch
rather than the optimal 30º.

--
F

On Sep 8, 1:48*pm, F news@nowhere wrote:
On 05/09/2011 20:29 F wrote:





On 31/08/2011 11:48 F wrote:

I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The conflict
seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.

Now, in addition to mon v poly, there are differing opinions on where to
site the panels.

We have three roofs which seem to be suitable:
- a south-facing roof (actually 160º) on top of the two storey main
building with an east-facing roof alongside which has a chimney on it
which would throw a shadow across the south-facing roof

- a west-facing (actually 250º) roof on top of the two storey main building

- a west-facing roof (actually 250º) on top of a single storey extension
which is built out from the two story main building.

Two quotes suggest using the two west-facing roofs, the third suggests
using the two top roofs: the top west-facing and the south-facing.

In the case of the two similar quotes, I am concerned that the lower
west facing roof will, effectively, be in the shadow of the wall above
it until midday. In the case of the south-facing plus west-facing quote,
I wonder about the effect of the chimney shadow as it moves across the
south-facing roof.

Anyone got any thoughts on the relative merits of the two proposals?

TIA.

Anyone?

Just to add a little more into the equation, the roofs have a 23º pitch
rather than the optimal 30º.

--
F- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The charts will sort that out for you.

On Sep 5, 8:29*pm, F news@nowhere wrote:
On 31/08/2011 11:48 F wrote:

I'm in the process of getting quotes for a 4kW PV installation and am
getting conflicting advice on the most appropriate type of panel for a
west (with a hint of south thrown in) facing installation. The conflict
seems to be monocrystalline v polycrystalline.

Now, in addition to mon v poly, there are differing opinions on where to
site the panels.

We have three roofs which seem to be suitable:
- a south-facing roof (actually 170º) on top of the two storey main
building with an east-facing roof alongside which has a chimney on it
which would throw a shadow across the south-facing roof

- a west-facing (actually 260º) roof on top of the two storey main building

- a west-facing roof (actually 260º) on top of a single storey extension
which is built out from the two story main building.

Two quotes suggest using the two west-facing roofs, the third suggests
using the two top roofs: the top west-facing and the south-facing.

In the case of the two similar quotes, I am concerned that the lower
west facing roof will, effectively, be in the shadow of the wall above
it until midday. In the case of the south-facing plus west-facing quote,
I wonder about the effect of the chimney shadow as it moves across the
south-facing roof.

Anyone got any thoughts on the relative merits of the two proposals?

TIA.

--
F

Impossible to asses intuitively. Some of these guys have a computer
programme that purports to assess the effects of shadows.
If you Email me, I have a few charts that asses the annual KWh
generated. I can send them toyou. But they don't allow for shadows.

On 08/09/2011 18:04 harry wrote:

Some of these guys have a computer
programme that purports to assess the effects of shadows.
If you Email me, I have a few charts that asses the annual KWh
generated. I can send them toyou. But they don't allow for shadows.

Thanks for the offer. I've used the calculator at
http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php to get an idea on how
much we might generate, but there's no allowance for shadows there
either. One rep says the wall behind the lower roof 'won't
matter'/'it'll catch up within 20 minutes' but that sounds counter-
intuitive. I'm waiting for the others to get back to me.

--
F

On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 20:29:10 +0100, F news@nowhere wrote:

Anyone got any thoughts on the relative merits of the two proposals?

Most UK installers are not that competent and their main interest is
to cover anything they can in panels and wire them all up in series.
The customer doesn't find out how useless this is for a year or so by
which time "PV Panels Dagenham Ltd" has become "PV Panels Dagenham
(2012) Ltd" (with the same owners, premises, products and cars) and
you have nowhere to go for recompense.

On a simple experiment using a high quality BP Mono crystalline panel
of about 0.75 sq/m putting your hand anywhere on the panel in bright
sunlight reduced the output by about 80&. Shadows kill PV. The
"monkey see- monkey do" programs the PV sellers carry with them are
not effective at modeling shadowing as it is both too complex and
commercially unattractive (reality would put too many buyers off).

PV is a daft technology in the UK to begin with, it only "works"
because of the ridiculous subsidies being ploughed into it in the hope
that in a few years time we can tell the European Onion we have x
square hectares of PV on cellar roofs and will they please not fine us
(they will anyway).

Find somewhere with no shadows if you must. If you still want to
decorate the roof with garden gnomes make sure the installer wires the
non shadow panels as a set in series and the shadowed panels as
another set in series and then wires both sets in parallel. At least
this way the shadowed garden gnomes will not seriously affect the
non-shadowed gnomes. Unfortunately this will also blow the brain
cell of most installers who can't do anything more than rig everything
up as a big series string - which like a water hose means any pinch
point (shadow) stops the whole array functioning effectively (or as
effectively as it can).

In message , Peter Parry
writes
The customer doesn't find out how useless this is for a year or so by
which time "PV Panels Dagenham Ltd" has become "PV Panels Dagenham
(2012) Ltd"
On a purely pedantic note Companies house will no longer accept such a
delineator between two company names.
--
hugh