Is it safe and feasible to take these down with help of friends, or is it
really dangerous, other than the obvious of falling through it and dropping
it on ones dome.

Thinking back to when my late father put this all up we had no safety issues
due to asbestos. its only a very small proportion as far as I know. So can
we just remove the sheets and put them in a skip or is this now punishable
by a stay in the tower under health and safety rules.
I myself am now blind so I'm a bit leery of getting contractors in who
often try to cut corners cos the customer cant see what he is doing. I'm
certainly not paying huge amounts of dosh to someone to cock it up.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!

On 14/08/2011 19:44, Brian Gaff wrote:
Is it safe and feasible to take these down with help of friends, or is it
really dangerous, other than the obvious of falling through it and dropping
it on ones dome.

Thinking back to when my late father put this all up we had no safety issues
due to asbestos. its only a very small proportion as far as I know. So can
we just remove the sheets and put them in a skip or is this now punishable
by a stay in the tower under health and safety rules.
I myself am now blind so I'm a bit leery of getting contractors in who
often try to cut corners cos the customer cant see what he is doing. I'm
certainly not paying huge amounts of dosh to someone to cock it up.

Brian

This has been covered here several times.

Asbestos cement is not that dangerous as long as it is not
deteriorating. Should be kept damp when being taken down to avoid the
release of dust.

Disposal is a problem.

Some councils will take small amounts double wrapped in polythene but
some will not.

It cannot just be put in a skip. I believe you could be prosecuted if
you did not ensure it was disposed of properly in a licensed site.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that our garage roof lasts a few more years.

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Is it safe and feasible to take these down with help of friends, or is it
really dangerous, other than the obvious of falling through it and
dropping it on ones dome.

Thinking back to when my late father put this all up we had no safety
issues due to asbestos. its only a very small proportion as far as I know.
So can we just remove the sheets and put them in a skip or is this now
punishable by a stay in the tower under health and safety rules.
I myself am now blind so I'm a bit leery of getting contractors in who
often try to cut corners cos the customer cant see what he is doing. I'm
certainly not paying huge amounts of dosh to someone to cock it up.


It has to be done properly and in many cases by a properly licensed
contractor. This would be good place to start

http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/


Regards from Peter Crosland

On 14/08/2011 19:44, Brian Gaff wrote:

Is it safe and feasible to take these down with help of friends, or is it
really dangerous, other than the obvious of falling through it and dropping
it on ones dome.

Asbestos fibre reinforced panels are not in themselves particularly
dangerous. They contain a small amount of a the least hazardous type
(Chrysotile aka "white") of asbestos.

Thinking back to when my late father put this all up we had no safety issues
due to asbestos. its only a very small proportion as far as I know. So can
we just remove the sheets and put them in a skip or is this now punishable
by a stay in the tower under health and safety rules.
I myself am now blind so I'm a bit leery of getting contractors in who
often try to cut corners cos the customer cant see what he is doing. I'm
certainly not paying huge amounts of dosh to someone to cock it up.

Usually councils have a way of disposing of the stuff - they charge if
you want them to collect, but its sometimes free if you deliver. It may
need to be wrapped in polythene or bagged for transport.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 14/08/2011 21:15, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/08/2011 19:44, Brian Gaff wrote:

Is it safe and feasible to take these down with help of friends, or is it
really dangerous, other than the obvious of falling through it and
dropping
it on ones dome.

Asbestos fibre reinforced panels are not in themselves particularly
dangerous. They contain a small amount of a the least hazardous type
(Chrysotile aka "white") of asbestos.

Thinking back to when my late father put this all up we had no safety
issues
due to asbestos. its only a very small proportion as far as I know. So
can
we just remove the sheets and put them in a skip or is this now
punishable
by a stay in the tower under health and safety rules.
I myself am now blind so I'm a bit leery of getting contractors in who
often try to cut corners cos the customer cant see what he is doing. I'm
certainly not paying huge amounts of dosh to someone to cock it up.

Usually councils have a way of disposing of the stuff - they charge if
you want them to collect, but its sometimes free if you deliver. It may
need to be wrapped in polythene or bagged for transport.

Our council had no problems when I got rid of the roofing sheets from my
garage. For my own safety, all that was needed was keeping things damp
and not cutting or breaking things. All the council wanted was for me to
bag or wrap it, with a double layer of platic. No more than two sheets
in the same pack, but no limit on how many packs. They have a designated
skip with a top and doors on for you to put it in. That's all there was
to it.

SteveW

On Aug 14, 1:13*pm, "Peter Crosland" wrote:
It has to be done properly

Correct.

in many cases by a properly licensed contractor.

No it does not if Chrysotile.

Asbestos actually comprises two distinct mineral types.
Chrysotile - White asbestos, is actually a form of serpentine. Short
fibes, used in asbestos-cement products. Dissolves readily in lung
tissue (2-12 months). Treat as with any other inhaled dust (ALL dust
is harmful, be it household, diesel particulates, MDF or hardwood
cutting).
Crocidolite - blue/brown asbestos from amphibole group of minerals
with completely different crystal structures and chemical properties.
Very long fibres, used in lagging, bulk insulation & fabric. Does not
dissolve in lungs, **permanent**, causes mesothelioma. Not used for
garage roofs.

The general guide is...
#1 - any existing cracked panels should have their edges painted with
scrap alkyd paint and any handling should be performed so as to
minimise abrasion of fibres.
#2 - keep the surface WET, wear disposable overalls, wear FFP3D masks
with a rubber seal, wear goggles, wear elasticated sleeve gauntlet
gloves, keep all nearby windows closed, do not bring clothing into the
house - keep spare disposable overalls if necessary.
#3 - do NOT use mechanical tools against the asbestos sheeting, roof J-
bolts are cut with a bolt cropper off Ebay or Toolstation etc, other
fasteners are ground with an angle grinder on the steel angle side
(not the abestos sheet surface), screws and nails are treated ideally
by cutting from the wood side if breaking the board would occur.
#4 - each board is removed individually, you do not stand on the roof
because they DO break, work from below removing each panel carefully.
#5 - each panel is usually bagged and taped, placed in a skip
designated for asbestos that you either hire OR at a designated tip
(designated means not all tips take it and MANY require you to present
the first piece for inspection and confirmation of handling etc).

There is a greater health risk from exposure to cement, epoxy and long
term dust from MDF and wood such as Iroko is more hazardous than
Chrysotile.

Remember, all dust is dangerous - just because asbestos has "gone
away" does NOT mean that inhaling modern particulate matter is any
less dangerous because it is accumulative.

Your house insurer may pay for removal or for tests to confirm what is
their themselves, but they will want to vet who does it - if not
ensure you have legal cover because "licensed contractors" have a
habit of carrying "woodworm dust" with them to turn a cheap job into a
£20,000 fake bill.

Key thing is please do not stand on a chrysotile roof, even if the
steel or wood frame appears sound because the panels can become porous
over years and freeze-thaw cycles can render them surprisingly weak.
You go through without warning and it has caused a fair few casualties
over the years re factories, not just domestic. Some thieves went
through a local shed roof doing a "garden runner" from the police, his
upper arm became impaled on metal work as he fell.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
On 14/08/2011 19:44, Brian Gaff wrote:

Is it safe and feasible to take these down with help of friends, or is it
really dangerous, other than the obvious of falling through it and
dropping
it on ones dome.

Asbestos fibre reinforced panels are not in themselves particularly
dangerous. They contain a small amount of a the least hazardous type
(Chrysotile aka "white") of asbestos.

Thinking back to when my late father put this all up we had no safety
issues
due to asbestos. its only a very small proportion as far as I know. So
can
we just remove the sheets and put them in a skip or is this now
punishable
by a stay in the tower under health and safety rules.
I myself am now blind so I'm a bit leery of getting contractors in who
often try to cut corners cos the customer cant see what he is doing. I'm
certainly not paying huge amounts of dosh to someone to cock it up.

Usually councils have a way of disposing of the stuff - they charge if you
want them to collect, but its sometimes free if you deliver. It may need
to be wrapped in polythene or bagged for transport.


--
Cheers,

John.

Wet is down first and bag it. Break it as little as possible. After the job
is over vacuum up round the site to get up any dust. Use a cleaner with
disposable paper bags.
Wear face masks and diposable overslls.
Have a look in your local recycle site(s). Ours has a huge covered skip for
asbestos cement. It has to be bagged.
Yours may well be the same.

Very interesting, but it kind of makes one wonder what the actual method
used to make it safe is after you give it to them.asbestos sheeting,
presumably needs to be broken down into its component parts in some way. do
they use acid or what?

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
On 14/08/2011 19:44, Brian Gaff wrote:

Is it safe and feasible to take these down with help of friends, or is
it
really dangerous, other than the obvious of falling through it and
dropping
it on ones dome.

Asbestos fibre reinforced panels are not in themselves particularly
dangerous. They contain a small amount of a the least hazardous type
(Chrysotile aka "white") of asbestos.

Thinking back to when my late father put this all up we had no safety
issues
due to asbestos. its only a very small proportion as far as I know. So
can
we just remove the sheets and put them in a skip or is this now
punishable
by a stay in the tower under health and safety rules.
I myself am now blind so I'm a bit leery of getting contractors in who
often try to cut corners cos the customer cant see what he is doing.
I'm
certainly not paying huge amounts of dosh to someone to cock it up.

Usually councils have a way of disposing of the stuff - they charge if
you want them to collect, but its sometimes free if you deliver. It may
need to be wrapped in polythene or bagged for transport.


--
Cheers,

John.

Wet is down first and bag it. Break it as little as possible. After the
job is over vacuum up round the site to get up any dust. Use a cleaner
with disposable paper bags.
Wear face masks and diposable overslls.
Have a look in your local recycle site(s). Ours has a huge covered skip
for asbestos cement. It has to be bagged.
Yours may well be the same.

Huge wrote:

[Please don't top post]

Most groups accept his reason for doing so ....

On 15 Aug 2011 08:28:19 GMT, Huge wrote:

Very interesting, but it kind of makes one wonder what the actual
method used to make it safe is after you give it to them.asbestos
sheeting, presumably needs to be broken down into its component
parts
in some way. do they use acid or what?

[Please don't top post]

Brian is blind, as he has mentioned in this thread.

Don't be silly - it goes to landfill.

Hopefully a hazardous waste one not just any landfill. But white
asbestos as found in "asbestos cement" is not as nasty as blue or
brown.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Aug 15, 9:16*am, "Brian Gaff" wrote:
it kind of makes one wonder what the actual method
used to make it safe is after you give it to them.

In the case of one brand-name chemwaste cleanup firm, they sent it for
incineration. A remarkably clueless move, even for that company.

Usually asbestos cement goes for landfill. In the case of cement
boards this is "above board" and seen as acceptable.

There's also a huge problem with fly-tipping(sic) of asbestos where
it's illegally disposed of into landfills that it shouldn't be going
into, by various backhander deals. Our garden in Northern Ireland was
filled with white asbestos pipe lagging, after a demolition contract
and some well-dodgy deals over a disposal site (the land owner thought
he'd made a tidy profit by offering his land as a disposal site for
subsoil - what he actually received in the trucks was demolition
waste).

On Aug 14, 9:13*pm, "Peter Crosland" wrote:

It has to be done properly and in many cases by a properly licensed
contractor. This would be *good place to start

http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/

If you read that very useful site carefully, you'll find it also
explains the many cases when you _don't_ need a licensed contractor.
This is one of them.

On Aug 14, 7:44*pm, "Brian Gaff" wrote:
Is it safe and feasible to take these down with help of friends,

I've got a couple of thousand square feet of asbestos cement roof.
Some of it I've taken down for demolition, many of the better panels
I've then re-installed for repair work on the others. I plan to keep
it for its useful life, as the stuff is an excellent shed roof if
looked after.

Your biggest hazard by far is the risk of falling off it or through
it. Being so obviously dangerous to walk on, even with crawling
boards, people start taking risks and leaning over it too far. You
mustn't be afraid of it - rig up crawling boards that will allow you
to work on any part you need access to safely, even if you have to
make a board with a large padded ridge hook.

Most of the work in taking it down is in cutting the heads off J
bolts. This can be done from the outside, but it's often easier to cut
the tails off the J bolts from the inside (easy, with a pair of bolt
cutters) rather than trying to deal with rusted nuts from above (bolt
cutters, angle grinder, rarely a spanner).

You need several people, because you need to lower sheets down safely,
without dropping them either inside or outside the building. It's also
good to avoid scraping them over the edges of walls. I'd use a couple
of planks as runners, rather than trying to lift them down.

By far the easiest way (and worth paying hire charges) is a small
mobile scaff tower inside the shed. It's easy access to take off the
bolts and it's a good place to support the panels from beneath when
you're lifting them down.

You also need a pickup or large van to take them to the council dump,
as you don't want to be breaking sheets up on-site to make them small
enough to fit into a small vehicle. It might be worth using a council
pick-up service.

On Aug 15, 9:16*am, "Brian Gaff" wrote:
Very interesting, but it kind of makes one wonder what the actual method
used to make it safe is after you give it to them.asbestos sheeting,
presumably needs to be broken down into its component parts in some way. do
they use acid or what?

Why would they want to break it down? The asbestos fibres are
currently (mostly) safely encased in cement. The aim is to keep them
that way.

On 15/08/2011 11:14, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Aug 14, 7:44 pm, "Brian wrote:
Is it safe and feasible to take these down with help of friends,

I've got a couple of thousand square feet of asbestos cement roof.
Some of it I've taken down for demolition, many of the better panels
I've then re-installed for repair work on the others. I plan to keep
it for its useful life, as the stuff is an excellent shed roof if
looked after.

Your biggest hazard by far is the risk of falling off it or through
it. Being so obviously dangerous to walk on, even with crawling
boards, people start taking risks and leaning over it too far. You
mustn't be afraid of it - rig up crawling boards that will allow you
to work on any part you need access to safely, even if you have to
make a board with a large padded ridge hook.

Most of the work in taking it down is in cutting the heads off J
bolts. This can be done from the outside, but it's often easier to cut
the tails off the J bolts from the inside (easy, with a pair of bolt
cutters) rather than trying to deal with rusted nuts from above (bolt
cutters, angle grinder, rarely a spanner).

You need several people, because you need to lower sheets down safely,
without dropping them either inside or outside the building. It's also
good to avoid scraping them over the edges of walls. I'd use a couple
of planks as runners, rather than trying to lift them down.

By far the easiest way (and worth paying hire charges) is a small
mobile scaff tower inside the shed. It's easy access to take off the
bolts and it's a good place to support the panels from beneath when
you're lifting them down.

You also need a pickup or large van to take them to the council dump,
as you don't want to be breaking sheets up on-site to make them small
enough to fit into a small vehicle. It might be worth using a council
pick-up service.

Check with your council first. They vary a lot.
Essex CC domestic waste sites do not accept any form of asbestos. They
will collect 40Kg per council tax year free. Anything else has to be
paid for.
http://www.essex.gov.uk/Environment%...Pages/A-B.aspx

On 14/08/11 19:44, Brian Gaff wrote:
Is it safe and feasible to take these down with help of friends, or is it
really dangerous, other than the obvious of falling through it and dropping
it on ones dome.

Thinking back to when my late father put this all up we had no safety issues
due to asbestos. its only a very small proportion as far as I know. So can
we just remove the sheets and put them in a skip or is this now punishable
by a stay in the tower under health and safety rules.
I myself am now blind so I'm a bit leery of getting contractors in who
often try to cut corners cos the customer cant see what he is doing. I'm
certainly not paying huge amounts of dosh to someone to cock it up.


Do you live on a Council estate (or ex-council estate)?

Our old house was a private house on an estate that still had a few
authority-owned houses on it. When I noticed the council contractors
replacing the asbestos shed roofs on those, I phoned the council and asked if
they would do ours too, and they were happy to.

This wasn't a backhander to the contractors, the cheque was payable to the
local council.

On 15/08/11 10:32, Huge wrote:
On 2011-08-15, Andy wrote:
Huge wrote:

[Please don't top post]

Most groups accept his reason for doing so ....

1) I don't read minds.

But you could've read his post at the start of the thread.


2) I don't imagine his disability extends to being unable to explain
for himself.

True...

On 15/08/2011 10:32, Huge wrote:
2) I don't imagine his disability extends to being unable to explain
for himself.

He does. read his sig.

(I got this wrong once too...)

Andy