Hi,

Can anyone offer advice on the following?

1. The espag(? ah google is a wonderful thing) handle on one glazing
unit (not titl and turn) has failed. The sprung button wasn't
springing and the key was getting difficult to turn. One day after
fiddling with the key the button popped out with two tiny, delicate
springs a little shard of metal etc. It's buggered, terminally,
basically. Now doing a bit of googling this seems to be an esapg
handle - about £5 for one - but there are at least 20 diffferent
types. Apart from the spindle length, and appearance difference and
maybe spacing between the fixing bolts are they all interchangable and
it doesn't matter which one I buy? I'm prepared to spend £10 on this
and fail rather than not try and pay £50 for fitting of a £5 part
(mean or what?)

2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all
double glazing eventually fails like this, or can I buy a particular
"type" of glazing unit that is less vulnerable to misting?

3. One tilt and turn unit no longer opens (different property, my
mother's, and window type to those in question 1). when I turn the
handle I can "feel" some mechanism (gearing ?) "resistance" and some
sliding and clicking sound which I guess is the gearing(?) trying to
slide the bolts away from the keeps(?). Is this something I can unjam
or, as the wise man said, this is well buggered andneeds an "expert"?

Regards

Clive

On Aug 12, 9:51*pm, Clive wrote:
Hi,

Can anyone offer advice on the following?

1. The espag(? ah google is a wonderful thing) handle on one glazing
unit (not titl and turn) has failed. The sprung button wasn't
springing and the key was getting difficult to turn. One day after
fiddling with the key the button popped out with two tiny, delicate
springs a little shard of metal etc. It's buggered, terminally,
basically. Now doing a bit of googling this seems to be an esapg
handle - about £5 for one - but there are at least 20 diffferent
types. Apart from the spindle length, and appearance difference and
maybe spacing between the fixing bolts are they all interchangable and
it doesn't matter which one I buy? I'm prepared to spend £10 on this
and fail rather than not try and pay £50 for fitting of a £5 part
(mean or what?)

Just take the old one with you. Use a screwdriver to shut the window
mechanism while you're out.


2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all
double glazing eventually fails like this, or can I buy a particular
"type" of glazing unit that is less vulnerable to misting?

It happens. There are different edge seals, but it still happens. The
usual solution is replace the sealed glazing unit, but there are a
couple of repair approaches that are debated. One is to drill the
outer glass at the bottom, let it demist and plug the hole. The glass
shatters if its toughened, some are some arent. Another is to drill
the bottom seal and do likewise, its more doable but means taking the
unit out. There's also a company using a totally different aprpoach.


3. One tilt and turn unit no longer opens (different property, my
mother's, and window type to those in question 1). when I turn the
handle I can "feel" some mechanism (gearing ?) *"resistance" and some
sliding and clicking sound which I guess is the gearing(?) trying to
slide the bolts away from the keeps(?). Is this something I can unjam
or, as the wise man said, this is well buggered andneeds an "expert"?

Sounds like its jamming. Waggle it back and forth, force it till its
open. Then clean up and lube the mechanism. Things can break, if so
blame me.


Regards

Clive

"Clive" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Can anyone offer advice on the following?

1. The espag(? ah google is a wonderful thing) handle on one glazing
unit (not titl and turn) has failed. The sprung button wasn't
springing and the key was getting difficult to turn. One day after
fiddling with the key the button popped out with two tiny, delicate
springs a little shard of metal etc. It's buggered, terminally,
basically. Now doing a bit of googling this seems to be an esapg
handle - about £5 for one - but there are at least 20 diffferent
types. Apart from the spindle length, and appearance difference and
maybe spacing between the fixing bolts are they all interchangable and
it doesn't matter which one I buy? I'm prepared to spend £10 on this
and fail rather than not try and pay £50 for fitting of a £5 part
(mean or what?)

2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all
double glazing eventually fails like this, or can I buy a particular
"type" of glazing unit that is less vulnerable to misting?

3. One tilt and turn unit no longer opens (different property, my
mother's, and window type to those in question 1). when I turn the
handle I can "feel" some mechanism (gearing ?) "resistance" and some
sliding and clicking sound which I guess is the gearing(?) trying to
slide the bolts away from the keeps(?). Is this something I can unjam
or, as the wise man said, this is well buggered andneeds an "expert"?

Regards

Clive

They mist because humid air gets in. Newer ones are a bit better in this
respect. There is no cure that I know of.
If you look at the aluminium spacers inside the units, they have little
holes. They are filled with a dessicant, When the dessicant is expended (ie
wet), the windows start to mist up.

Re the tilt and turn, you will be lucky to get parts. Few manufacturers do
them any more.

In message
, NT
writes
On Aug 12, 9:51*pm, Clive wrote:


2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all
double glazing eventually fails like this, or can I buy a particular
"type" of glazing unit that is less vulnerable to misting?

It happens. There are different edge seals, but it still happens. The
usual solution is replace the sealed glazing unit, but there are a
couple of repair approaches that are debated. One is to drill the
outer glass at the bottom, let it demist and plug the hole. The glass
shatters if its toughened, some are some arent. Another is to drill
the bottom seal and do likewise, its more doable but means taking the
unit out. There's also a company using a totally different aprpoach.


Years ago, someone posted their DIY technique that involved a vacuum
cleaner and some silica gel. It was rather a lot of effort I thought.
Replacement seems a better option to me though. It's not that expensive
really, though worth shopping around IME

3. One tilt and turn unit no longer opens (different property, my

--
Chris French

On Aug 13, 8:43*am, chris French
wrote:
In message
, NT
writes

On Aug 12, 9:51*pm, Clive wrote:

2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all
double glazing eventually fails like this, or can I buy a particular
"type" of glazing unit that is less vulnerable to misting?

It happens. There are different edge seals, but it still happens. The
usual solution is replace the sealed glazing unit, but there are a
couple of repair approaches that are debated. One is to drill the
outer glass at the bottom, let it demist and plug the hole. The glass
shatters if its toughened, some are some arent. Another is to drill
the bottom seal and do likewise, its more doable but means taking the
unit out. There's also a company using a totally different aprpoach.

Years ago, someone posted their DIY technique that involved a vacuum
cleaner and some silica gel. It was rather a lot of effort I thought.

Whatever is done is only a temporary repair unless the cause is fixed.
If you let the interpane air have access to exterior air, it should
always stay above dewpoint, permanently. A new sealed unit is only a
semi-permanent repair, ie it may last ok or may fail over the years.


NT

Replacement seems a better option to me though. It's not that expensive
really, though worth shopping around IME



3. One tilt and turn unit no longer opens (different property, my

"NT" wrote in message
...

2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all
double glazing eventually fails like this, or can I buy a particular
"type" of glazing unit that is less vulnerable to misting?

...It happens. There are different edge seals, but it still happens. The
...usual solution is replace the sealed glazing unit, but there are a
...couple of repair approaches that are debated. One is to drill the
...outer glass at the bottom, let it demist and plug the hole. The glass
...shatters if its toughened, some are some arent. Another is to drill
...the bottom seal and do likewise, its more doable but means taking the
...unit out. There's also a company using a totally different aprpoach.

largely pointless - definitely so if paying someone else to do it... do they
offer any gtee?
Spacer bars (visible around the inner edges of the DG unit) are filled with
absorbent silica crystals which by now will be saturated hence the vapour is
condensing on the glass. Drilling holes and faffing about is a waste of
time.

You need *at least* new DG units (and possibly frames if you want to try to
prevent it for any longer than the current DG units have lasted).
You dont say if upvc or wood frames - if wood then "drained and vented"
timber windows are the way to go.
If upvc frames then it's just back to plain old "sods law" that "sometime"
your units' seals will fail, for some reason - e.g. differential expansion
in south facing windows, factors that are pretty much beyond control.

Jim K

On Aug 12, 9:51*pm, Clive wrote:
Hi,

Can anyone offer advice on the following?

1. The espag(? ah google is a wonderful thing) handle on one glazing
unit (not titl and turn) has failed. The sprung button wasn't
springing and the key was getting difficult to turn. One day after
fiddling with the key the button popped out with two tiny, delicate
springs a little shard of metal etc. It's buggered, terminally,
basically. Now doing a bit of googling this seems to be an esapg
handle - about £5 for one - but there are at least 20 diffferent
types. Apart from the spindle length, and appearance difference and
maybe spacing between the fixing bolts are they all interchangable and
it doesn't matter which one I buy? I'm prepared to spend £10 on this
and fail rather than not try and pay £50 for fitting of a £5 part
(mean or what?)

2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all
double glazing eventually fails like this, or can I buy a particular
"type" of glazing unit that is less vulnerable to misting?

3. One tilt and turn unit no longer opens (different property, my
mother's, and window type to those in question 1). when I turn the
handle I can "feel" some mechanism (gearing ?) *"resistance" and some
sliding and clicking sound which I guess is the gearing(?) trying to
slide the bolts away from the keeps(?). Is this something I can unjam
or, as the wise man said, this is well buggered andneeds an "expert"?

Regards

Clive

Espag handles are fairly interchangeable IME. I had some spare ones
lying about here that I used as a temporary solution until I got a new
set. Bolt spacing matched, square shaft was a little short. Bought one
top quality replacement, bolt spacing matched again, shaft a bit too
long - had to saw off a few mm. Bought a complete set from the same
supplier.

Some handles have a small location peg concentric with the bolts - if
your frames don't have these, another minor mod may be necessary.

On Aug 13, 12:09*pm, "Jim K" wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

...

2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all
double glazing eventually fails like this, or can I buy a particular
"type" of glazing unit that is less vulnerable to misting?

..It happens. There are different edge seals, but it still happens. The
..usual solution is replace the sealed glazing unit, but there are a
..couple of repair approaches that are debated. One is to drill the
..outer glass at the bottom, let it demist and plug the hole. The glass
..shatters if its toughened, some are some arent. Another is to drill
..the bottom seal and do likewise, its more doable but means taking the
..unit out. There's also a company using a totally different aprpoach.

largely pointless - definitely so if paying someone else to do it... do they
offer any gtee?

I dont know which method your refering to there.

Spacer bars (visible around the inner edges of the DG unit) are filled with
absorbent silica crystals which by now will be saturated hence the vapour is
condensing on the glass.

Yes, but the desiccant is largely irrelevant. All it does is exnted
the time before it mists when operating in sealed mode. When converted
to unsealed mode, it makes no difference to anything.


Drilling holes and faffing about is a waste of
time.

You need *at least* new DG units (and possibly frames if you want to try to
prevent it for any longer than the current DG units have lasted).
You dont say if upvc or wood frames - if wood then "drained and vented"
timber windows are the way to go.
If upvc frames then it's just back to plain old "sods law" that "sometime"
your units' seals will fail, for some reason - e.g. differential expansion
in south facing windows, factors that are pretty much beyond control.

Jim K

Well, you're welcome to explain why warm air in the gap that very
slowly exchanges with outdoor air, thus has the same percentage of
water vapour, but is at a higher temp, always preventing condensation,
is in your opinion a waste of time.


NT

"NT" wrote in message
...
On Aug 13, 12:09 pm, "Jim K" wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

...

2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all
double glazing eventually fails like this, or can I buy a particular
"type" of glazing unit that is less vulnerable to misting?

..It happens. There are different edge seals, but it still happens. The
..usual solution is replace the sealed glazing unit, but there are a
..couple of repair approaches that are debated. One is to drill the
..outer glass at the bottom, let it demist and plug the hole. The glass
..shatters if its toughened, some are some arent. Another is to drill
..the bottom seal and do likewise, its more doable but means taking the
..unit out. There's also a company using a totally different aprpoach.

largely pointless - definitely so if paying someone else to do it... do
they
offer any gtee?

...I dont know which method your refering to there.

Any gtee is of relevance....
Spacer bars (visible around the inner edges of the DG unit) are filled
with
absorbent silica crystals which by now will be saturated hence the vapour
is
condensing on the glass.

...Yes, but the desiccant is largely irrelevant.

???

.... All it does is exnted
....the time before it mists when operating in sealed mode. When converted
....to unsealed mode, it makes no difference to anything.

erm....yersss

....Well, you're welcome to explain why warm air in the gap that very
....slowly exchanges with outdoor air, thus has the same percentage of
.....water vapour, but is at a higher temp, always preventing condensation,
....is in your opinion a waste of time.

....NT
(i resist the expansion of the acronym)

so FFS why don;t they make them like *you say* from the start then?

Jim K

On Aug 13, 2:02*pm, " wrote:
On Aug 12, 9:51*pm, Clive wrote:









Hi,

Can anyone offer advice on the following?

1. The espag(? ah google is a wonderful thing) handle on one glazing
unit (not titl and turn) has failed. The sprung button wasn't
springing and the key was getting difficult to turn. One day after
fiddling with the key the button popped out with two tiny, delicate
springs a little shard of metal etc. It's buggered, terminally,
basically. Now doing a bit of googling this seems to be an esapg
handle - about £5 for one - but there are at least 20 diffferent
types. Apart from the spindle length, and appearance difference and
maybe spacing between the fixing bolts are they all interchangable and
it doesn't matter which one I buy? I'm prepared to spend £10 on this
and fail rather than not try and pay £50 for fitting of a £5 part
(mean or what?)

2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all
double glazing eventually fails like this, or can I buy a particular
"type" of glazing unit that is less vulnerable to misting?

3. One tilt and turn unit no longer opens (different property, my
mother's, and window type to those in question 1). when I turn the
handle I can "feel" some mechanism (gearing ?) *"resistance" and some
sliding and clicking sound which I guess is the gearing(?) trying to
slide the bolts away from the keeps(?). Is this something I can unjam
or, as the wise man said, this is well buggered andneeds an "expert"?

Regards

Clive

Espag handles are fairly interchangeable IME. I had some spare ones
lying about here that I used as a temporary solution until I got a new
set. Bolt spacing matched, square shaft was a little short. Bought one
top quality replacement, bolt spacing matched again, shaft a bit too
long - had to saw off a few mm. Bought a complete set from the same
supplier.

Some handles have a small location peg concentric with the bolts - if
your frames don't have these, another minor mod may be necessary.

The espag handles are surprisingly a standard across the aluminium and
plastic window industry. The only variation is the length of the
shaft.

Jonathan

On Aug 13, 6:15*pm, "Jim K" wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

....
On Aug 13, 12:09 pm, "Jim K" wrote:



"NT" wrote in message

....

2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all
double glazing eventually fails like this, or can I buy a particular
"type" of glazing unit that is less vulnerable to misting?

..It happens. There are different edge seals, but it still happens. The
..usual solution is replace the sealed glazing unit, but there are a
..couple of repair approaches that are debated. One is to drill the
..outer glass at the bottom, let it demist and plug the hole. The glass
..shatters if its toughened, some are some arent. Another is to drill
..the bottom seal and do likewise, its more doable but means taking the
..unit out. There's also a company using a totally different aprpoach.

largely pointless - definitely so if paying someone else to do it... do
they
offer any gtee?

..I dont know which method your refering to there.

Any gtee is of relevance....

Spacer bars (visible around the inner edges of the DG unit) are filled
with
absorbent silica crystals which by now will be saturated hence the vapour
is
condensing on the glass.

..Yes, but the desiccant is largely irrelevant.

???

... All it does is exnted
...the time before it mists when operating in sealed mode. When converted
...to unsealed mode, it makes no difference to anything.

erm....yersss

...Well, you're welcome to explain why warm air in the gap that very
...slowly exchanges with outdoor air, thus has the same percentage of
....water vapour, but is at a higher temp, always preventing condensation,
...is in your opinion a waste of time.

...NT
(i resist the expansion of the acronym)

so FFS why don;t they make them like *you say* from the start then?

Jim K

New they come with a gas fill to increase the insualtion value. Which
of course leaks out.


NT

On Aug 14, 7:54 am, NT wrote:
On Aug 13, 6:15 pm, "Jim K" wrote:



"NT" wrote in message

...
On Aug 13, 12:09 pm, "Jim K" wrote:

"NT" wrote in message

...

2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all
double glazing eventually fails like this, or can I buy a particular
"type" of glazing unit that is less vulnerable to misting?

..It happens. There are different edge seals, but it still happens. The
..usual solution is replace the sealed glazing unit, but there are a
..couple of repair approaches that are debated. One is to drill the
..outer glass at the bottom, let it demist and plug the hole. The glass
..shatters if its toughened, some are some arent. Another is to drill
..the bottom seal and do likewise, its more doable but means taking the
..unit out. There's also a company using a totally different aprpoach.

largely pointless - definitely so if paying someone else to do it... do
they
offer any gtee?

..I dont know which method your refering to there.

Any gtee is of relevance....

Spacer bars (visible around the inner edges of the DG unit) are filled
with
absorbent silica crystals which by now will be saturated hence the vapour
is
condensing on the glass.

..Yes, but the desiccant is largely irrelevant.

???

... All it does is exnted
...the time before it mists when operating in sealed mode. When converted
...to unsealed mode, it makes no difference to anything.

erm....yersss

...Well, you're welcome to explain why warm air in the gap that very
...slowly exchanges with outdoor air, thus has the same percentage of
....water vapour, but is at a higher temp, always preventing condensation,
...is in your opinion a waste of time.

...NT
(i resist the expansion of the acronym)

so FFS why don;t they make them like *you say* from the start then?

Jim K

New they come with a gas fill to increase the insualtion value. Which
of course leaks out.

NT

a choice of gas in fact - doesn't change the way they eventually fail
and mist..

Jim K

"Clive" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Can anyone offer advice on the following?

1. The espag(? ah google is a wonderful thing) handle on one glazing

Take old handle and note tickness of frame to any local window parts compnay
... and they will match it ... easy done.

2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all


DG is crap .... I have had 11 failed units on a new house, and even 5 which
were reaplced failed within 6 months.


Not sure if the firms who clkaim to come clean & reseal/repair your units
are any good or not .......... currently have another 5 to replace.
Anybody who tells you DG saves you money is talking Bol***ks they don't
kast long enough to reach payback.

I had all this happen in previous house as well .... current units made by
major manufacturer - no better.


3. One tilt and turn unit no longer opens

Probably just needs ne mechnaism ... again unscrew it and take it to local
window accesries company ..... there are several in my araea ,,, sure yellow
pages will turn them up for you

On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 22:30:30 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

DG is crap .... I have had 11 failed units on a new house, and even 5
which were reaplced failed within 6 months.

Well something is crap but it may well be the "quality" of
installation of the frames stressing the sealed units and/or crap
quality sealed units.

There are many sealed units here, in timber frames, that are at the
very least 12 years old and may well be over 22 years old. A couple
have failed but they are a weird shape, forming part of arch.

If the failure rate was the 50% you have suffered every house with DG
would have 2 or 3 failed units. They don't...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Aug 13, 8:43*am, chris French
wrote:
In message
, NT
writes

On Aug 12, 9:51*pm, Clive wrote:

2. Two (!) glazing units have misted. Is this inevitable, and all
double glazing eventually fails like this, or can I buy a particular
"type" of glazing unit that is less vulnerable to misting?

It happens. There are different edge seals, but it still happens. The
usual solution is replace the sealed glazing unit, but there are a
couple of repair approaches that are debated. One is to drill the
outer glass at the bottom, let it demist and plug the hole. The glass
shatters if its toughened, some are some arent. Another is to drill
the bottom seal and do likewise, its more doable but means taking the
unit out. There's also a company using a totally different aprpoach.

Years ago, someone posted their DIY technique that involved a vacuum
cleaner and some silica gel. It was rather a lot of effort I thought.
Replacement seems a better option to me though. It's not that expensive
really, though worth shopping around IME



3. One tilt and turn unit no longer opens (different property, my

--
Chris French

That seems to ring a bell - I came across this while looking at other
things.
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/window.html
Was this the one you were thinking of?
Mike