Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

It quotes some act dated this year, and mentions this is to address
the problem where some people discover they are liable to repair
massive runs of sewer pipe between their boundary and the main - ISTR
stories about this. Can cost tens of thousands.

It also mentions as a result everybodies bills will rise between £3
and 14 a year.

I'm in two minds about this - one the one hand it seems to make the
system fair for everyone. But on the other hand, I suspect the more
well heeled will actually benefit.

Just hadn't heard a squeak about it till I got the letter. Was mildly
surprised.

On 16/07/2011 18:25, Jethro wrote:
Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

It quotes some act dated this year, and mentions this is to address
the problem where some people discover they are liable to repair
massive runs of sewer pipe between their boundary and the main - ISTR
stories about this. Can cost tens of thousands.

It also mentions as a result everybodies bills will rise between £3
and 14 a year.

I'm in two minds about this - one the one hand it seems to make the
system fair for everyone. But on the other hand, I suspect the more
well heeled will actually benefit.

Just hadn't heard a squeak about it till I got the letter. Was mildly
surprised.

It's been mentioned on here before.

I think that for most people, it is a great idea. At the moment, you
have the responsibility for the connection from your house all the way
to the main sewer and as for most people this includes the section under
the road, you can be in for a very large bill that you have no control over.

Ours collapsed a few years ago, right where it turned into a vertical
drop down to the main sewer. Luckily, as it was shared with the house
next-door and was built before 1937, United Utilities had to pay for it.
If it hadn't met these requirements, we'd have had to pay for it and we
were told at the time that it could have involved a road closure (it
didn't in the end) and cost up to 15 grand! All for something, that had
the collapse been on my own property, I could have done myself for a
fraction of the price.

The insurance we had for such an event wouldn't have gone anywhere near
enough and I think many people would have been equally suprised just how
much it could cost them.

Sharing the risk and the cost around everyone seems eminently sensible.

I can't see how this is likely to mainly benefit the more well heeled,
as they'd be able to afford such repairs anyway.

SteveW

Jethro wrote:
Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

It quotes some act dated this year, and mentions this is to address
the problem where some people discover they are liable to repair
massive runs of sewer pipe between their boundary and the main - ISTR
stories about this. Can cost tens of thousands.

It also mentions as a result everybodies bills will rise between £3
and 14 a year.

I'm in two minds about this - one the one hand it seems to make the
system fair for everyone. But on the other hand, I suspect the more
well heeled will actually benefit.

Just hadn't heard a squeak about it till I got the letter. Was mildly
surprised.

Pleasantly surprised, those with unadopted roads that are shared are palming
off a lot of financial responsibility.

On Jul 16, 6:25*pm, Jethro wrote:
Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

It quotes some act dated this year, and mentions this is to address
the problem where some people discover they are liable to repair
massive runs of sewer pipe between their boundary and the main - ISTR
stories about this. Can cost tens of thousands.

It also mentions as a result everybodies bills will rise between £3
and 14 a year.

I'm in two minds about this - one the one hand it seems to make the
system fair for everyone. But on the other hand, I suspect the more
well heeled will actually benefit.

Just hadn't heard a squeak about it till I got the letter. Was mildly
surprised.

Compare it to a situation that my friend is in. The road to his house
(and another 14 and a busy old folks home) is a private road but
everyone uses it. The road is in **** state - I hate driving it
because it has so many deep potholes that are only inches apart -
sitting in the car in 1st gear on that road is certainly no fun..I can
hear my suspension cursing me as a drive. Anyway, the road is
temporarily patched by the odd resident or two but it's nowhere the
professional job that would be done if the L.A. adopted it. The
residents have had quotes of £300k for getting it properly tarred and
drainage installed but that's just too much.
Answer = let the L.A. adopt it.

McK

In article ,
Jethro wrote:
Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

South West Water? We got one too..

And since there is a lot of shared sewers round the side/back of my house,
I think I'm OK with it all.

Gordon

Jethro wrote:

Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

It quotes some act dated this year, and mentions this is to address
the problem where some people discover they are liable to repair
massive runs of sewer pipe between their boundary and the main - ISTR
stories about this. Can cost tens of thousands.

It also mentions as a result everybodies bills will rise between £3
and 14 a year.

I'm in two minds about this - one the one hand it seems to make the
system fair for everyone. But on the other hand, I suspect the more
well heeled will actually benefit.

Just hadn't heard a squeak about it till I got the letter. Was mildly
surprised.

I was waiting for this. Haven't had my notification yet, but it will come.

I have a shared sewer under my garden serving me plus 3 others.

I'm extremely grateful as last time we had a problem, none of the other
tightwads would get involved and whilst my insurers said they would cover
it, they wouldn't budge actually paying until the others had signed up to
contribute towards it.

So nothing happened, I'm several hundred squid down for getting it cleared
last time and it's only a matter of time before it fails again (tree roots
in several joints plus a cracked section).

I think that situation is not that uncommon, so it's a fairer system for
those of use with shared sewers.

For everyone else (and I haven't read the Act) - does it cover the bit that
goes from your boundary to the road sewer - because the householder is
liable for that too and that can get expensive...

For the record, the useless insurance company in question is Axa, so best
avoid them if you actually want a payout IMO.

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

McKevvy wrote:
On Jul 16, 6:25 pm, Jethro wrote:


Compare it to a situation that my friend is in. The road to his house
(and another 14 and a busy old folks home) is a private road but
everyone uses it. The road is in **** state - I hate driving it
because it has so many deep potholes that are only inches apart -
sitting in the car in 1st gear on that road is certainly no fun..I can
hear my suspension cursing me as a drive. Anyway, the road is
temporarily patched by the odd resident or two but it's nowhere the
professional job that would be done if the L.A. adopted it. The
residents have had quotes of £300k for getting it properly tarred and
drainage installed but that's just too much.
Answer = let the L.A. adopt it.

McK

You want the tax payer to buy your friends private road? It would have been
made perfectly clear the liabilities incurred from taking on a property with
a private road when he purchased it. The purchase price would have been
reduced accordingly.
I dont want my council tax used to buy your friends road.

On 16 July, 19:51, Tim Watts wrote:

For everyone else (and I haven't read the Act) - does it cover the bit that
goes from your boundary to the road sewer - because the householder is
liable for that too and that can get expensive...


Tim Watts

According to the diagram in the one I have just received from Anglian
Water, the responsibility changes at the property boundary, so yes it
does cover from the boundary to the sewer.

John

On Jul 16, 8:14 pm, "Tired" wrote:
McKevvy wrote:
On Jul 16, 6:25 pm, Jethro wrote:

Compare it to a situation that my friend is in. The road to his house
(and another 14 and a busy old folks home) is a private road but
everyone uses it. The road is in **** state - I hate driving it
because it has so many deep potholes that are only inches apart -
sitting in the car in 1st gear on that road is certainly no fun..I can
hear my suspension cursing me as a drive. Anyway, the road is
temporarily patched by the odd resident or two but it's nowhere the
professional job that would be done if the L.A. adopted it. The
residents have had quotes of £300k for getting it properly tarred and
drainage installed but that's just too much.
Answer = let the L.A. adopt it.

McK

You want the tax payer to buy your friends private road? It would have been
made perfectly clear the liabilities incurred from taking on a property with
a private road when he purchased it. The purchase price would have been
reduced accordingly.
I dont want my council tax used to buy your friends road.

er buy?? shurely you mean "become responsible and maintain"?

Jim K

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:51:11 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Jethro wrote:

Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

It quotes some act dated this year, and mentions this is to address
the problem where some people discover they are liable to repair
massive runs of sewer pipe between their boundary and the main - ISTR
stories about this. Can cost tens of thousands.

It also mentions as a result everybodies bills will rise between £3
and 14 a year.

I'm in two minds about this - one the one hand it seems to make the
system fair for everyone. But on the other hand, I suspect the more
well heeled will actually benefit.

Just hadn't heard a squeak about it till I got the letter. Was mildly
surprised.

I was waiting for this. Haven't had my notification yet, but it will come.

Here's a link to Northumbrian Water's interpretation:-

http://www.nwl.co.uk/privatedrainsandsewers.aspx


--
Frank Erskine

McKevvy wrote:
Answer = let the L.A. adopt it.

Which they won't do unless it's of adoptable standard before it's
handed over.

JGH

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 10:25:04 -0700 (PDT), Jethro wrote:

Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

It quotes some act dated this year, and mentions this is to address
the problem where some people discover they are liable to repair
massive runs of sewer pipe between their boundary and the main - ISTR
stories about this. Can cost tens of thousands.

It also mentions as a result everybodies bills will rise between £3
and 14 a year.

I'm in two minds about this - one the one hand it seems to make the
system fair for everyone. But on the other hand, I suspect the more
well heeled will actually benefit.

Just hadn't heard a squeak about it till I got the letter. Was mildly
surprised.

I wonder if we'll see arguments over whether damage occurred before or after Oct 1st...

On 16/07/2011 19:36, Gordon Henderson wrote:
In ,
wrote:
Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

South West Water? We got one too..

And since there is a lot of shared sewers round the side/back of my house,
I think I'm OK with it all.

Gordon

Severn Trent, in my case

On Jul 16, 9:55 pm, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
Jim K wrote:



On Jul 16, 8:14 pm, "Tired" wrote:
McKevvy wrote:
On Jul 16, 6:25 pm, Jethro wrote:

Compare it to a situation that my friend is in. The road to his house
(and another 14 and a busy old folks home) is a private road but
everyone uses it. The road is in **** state - I hate driving it
because it has so many deep potholes that are only inches apart -
sitting in the car in 1st gear on that road is certainly no fun..I can
hear my suspension cursing me as a drive. Anyway, the road is
temporarily patched by the odd resident or two but it's nowhere the
professional job that would be done if the L.A. adopted it. The
residents have had quotes of £300k for getting it properly tarred and
drainage installed but that's just too much.
Answer = let the L.A. adopt it.
You want the tax payer to buy your friends private road? It would have been
made perfectly clear the liabilities incurred from taking on a property with
a private road when he purchased it. The purchase price would have been
reduced accordingly.
I dont want my council tax used to buy your friends road.

er buy?? shurely you mean "become responsible and maintain"?

One assumes they would take ownership of the land the road is on.

shurely one must assume they won't give you anything for it so "buy"
is spurious?

Jim K

Jim K wrote:
On Jul 16, 8:14 pm, "Tired" wrote:
McKevvy wrote:
On Jul 16, 6:25 pm, Jethro wrote:

Compare it to a situation that my friend is in. The road to his
house (and another 14 and a busy old folks home) is a private road
but everyone uses it. The road is in **** state - I hate driving it
because it has so many deep potholes that are only inches apart -
sitting in the car in 1st gear on that road is certainly no fun..I
can hear my suspension cursing me as a drive. Anyway, the road is
temporarily patched by the odd resident or two but it's nowhere the
professional job that would be done if the L.A. adopted it. The
residents have had quotes of £300k for getting it properly tarred
and drainage installed but that's just too much.
Answer = let the L.A. adopt it.

McK

You want the tax payer to buy your friends private road? It would
have been made perfectly clear the liabilities incurred from taking
on a property with a private road when he purchased it. The purchase
price would have been reduced accordingly.
I dont want my council tax used to buy your friends road.

er buy?? shurely you mean "become responsible and maintain"?

Jim K

Sorry, that is even worse, to adopt, the responsibility to maintain without
the value of the asset.

Jim K wrote:
On Jul 16, 9:55 pm, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
Jim K wrote:



On Jul 16, 8:14 pm, "Tired" wrote:
McKevvy wrote:
On Jul 16, 6:25 pm, Jethro wrote:

Compare it to a situation that my friend is in. The road to his
house (and another 14 and a busy old folks home) is a private
road but everyone uses it. The road is in **** state - I hate
driving it because it has so many deep potholes that are only
inches apart - sitting in the car in 1st gear on that road is
certainly no fun..I can hear my suspension cursing me as a drive.
Anyway, the road is temporarily patched by the odd resident or
two but it's nowhere the professional job that would be done if
the L.A. adopted it. The residents have had quotes of £300k for
getting it properly tarred and drainage installed but that's just
too much.
Answer = let the L.A. adopt it.
You want the tax payer to buy your friends private road? It would
have been made perfectly clear the liabilities incurred from
taking on a property with a private road when he purchased it. The
purchase price would have been reduced accordingly.
I dont want my council tax used to buy your friends road.

er buy?? shurely you mean "become responsible and maintain"?

One assumes they would take ownership of the land the road is on.

shurely one must assume they won't give you anything for it so "buy"
is spurious?

Jim K

They are taking on a very expensive liability.

On Jul 16, 10:29 pm, "Tired" wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jul 16, 8:14 pm, "Tired" wrote:
McKevvy wrote:
On Jul 16, 6:25 pm, Jethro wrote:

Compare it to a situation that my friend is in. The road to his
house (and another 14 and a busy old folks home) is a private road
but everyone uses it. The road is in **** state - I hate driving it
because it has so many deep potholes that are only inches apart -
sitting in the car in 1st gear on that road is certainly no fun..I
can hear my suspension cursing me as a drive. Anyway, the road is
temporarily patched by the odd resident or two but it's nowhere the
professional job that would be done if the L.A. adopted it. The
residents have had quotes of £300k for getting it properly tarred
and drainage installed but that's just too much.
Answer = let the L.A. adopt it.

McK

You want the tax payer to buy your friends private road? It would
have been made perfectly clear the liabilities incurred from taking
on a property with a private road when he purchased it. The purchase
price would have been reduced accordingly.
I dont want my council tax used to buy your friends road.

er buy?? shurely you mean "become responsible and maintain"?

Jim K

Sorry, that is even worse, to adopt, the responsibility to maintain without
the value of the asset.

I don't think councils "buy" unadopted roads.

Jim K

Jethro wrote:

Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

It quotes some act dated this year, and mentions this is to address
the problem where some people discover they are liable to repair
massive runs of sewer pipe between their boundary and the main - ISTR
stories about this. Can cost tens of thousands.

It also mentions as a result everybodies bills will rise between £3
and 14 a year.

I'm in two minds about this - one the one hand it seems to make the
system fair for everyone. But on the other hand, I suspect the more
well heeled will actually benefit.

I would have thought that the €œwell heeled" would be more likely to live in
detached houses which are _less likely_ to share their drains with
neighbours, so the benefit to them would only be from the edge of their
property to the connection with the main sewer.
But then anyone unlucky to have a problem with their drains under the
pavement or road upto now could have faced a bill running into many
thousands.

-

On Jul 16, 7:16*pm, McKevvy wrote:
On Jul 16, 6:25*pm, Jethro wrote:





Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

It quotes some act dated this year, and mentions this is to address
the problem where some people discover they are liable to repair
massive runs of sewer pipe between their boundary and the main - ISTR
stories about this. Can cost tens of thousands.

It also mentions as a result everybodies bills will rise between £3
and 14 a year.

I'm in two minds about this - one the one hand it seems to make the
system fair for everyone. But on the other hand, I suspect the more
well heeled will actually benefit.

Just hadn't heard a squeak about it till I got the letter. Was mildly
surprised.

Compare it to a situation that my friend is in. The road to his house
(and another 14 and a busy old folks home) is a private road but
everyone uses it. The road is in **** state - I hate driving it
because it has so many deep potholes that are only inches apart -
sitting in the car in 1st gear on that road is certainly no fun..I can
hear my suspension cursing me as a drive. Anyway, the road is
temporarily patched by the odd resident or two but it's nowhere the
professional job that would be done if the L.A. adopted it. The
residents have had quotes of £300k for getting it properly tarred and
drainage installed but that's just too much.
Answer = let the L.A. adopt it.

McK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You will find the way it works is that the LA (or county highways)
will not adopt a road and pay for improvement. They will first charge
the residents a one-off to bring it up to national standard, which
might be a lot more than the £300k. After that they will do
maintenance for free.


rusty

Mark said
Jethro wrote:

Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong
to adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but
beyond my property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

It quotes some act dated this year, and mentions this is to address
the problem where some people discover they are liable to repair
massive runs of sewer pipe between their boundary and the main - ISTR
stories about this. Can cost tens of thousands.

It also mentions as a result everybodies bills will rise between £3
and 14 a year.

I'm in two minds about this - one the one hand it seems to make the
system fair for everyone. But on the other hand, I suspect the more
well heeled will actually benefit.

I would have thought that the "well heeled" would be more likely to
live in detached houses which are _less likely_ to share their drains
with neighbours, so the benefit to them would only be from the edge
of their property to the connection with the main sewer.
But then anyone unlucky to have a problem with their drains under the
?pavement or road upto now could have faced a bill running into many
thousands.


We live in a detached house and share a sewer with the also detached house
next door - it runs between the properties, and under the road for quite a
distance before it meets the main sewer. We had a problem with it being
blocked a few years back, and the blockage was under the road. Happily
for both of us it turned out a new water pipe had been installed recently by
the water board - right through our sewer pipe. They had to fix it
themselves.


--
kat
^..^

Jim K wrote:


Sorry, that is even worse, to adopt, the responsibility to maintain
without the value of the asset.

I don't think councils "buy" unadopted roads.

Jim K

By adopting the road it becomes a public road in the ownership of the
Highway Authority, does it not?

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 18:36:15 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson wrote:

In article ,
Jethro wrote:
Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

South West Water? We got one too..

And since there is a lot of shared sewers round the side/back of my house,
I think I'm OK with it all.

Gordon

We had them from Anglian. I'm the second house, so the first house has
responsibility to our fence, AW has responsibility then to the main and my
responsibility is from the soil stack to the sewer' manhole about a foot
away :-)
Er, have I got that right?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

PeterC wrote:


We had them from Anglian. I'm the second house, so the first house has
responsibility to our fence, AW has responsibility then to the main and my
responsibility is from the soil stack to the sewer' manhole about a foot
away :-)
Er, have I got that right?

No I don't believe so ! The WC will have responsibility for the whole
length of formerly, private sewer. Each householder will then only be
responsible for the connection into the private sewer. I think it's a
great idea as our shared sewer (18 houses) goes under the road.

Andy C

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 at 10:25:04, Jethro
wrote in uk.legal :

Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

It quotes some act dated this year, and mentions this is to address
the problem where some people discover they are liable to repair
massive runs of sewer pipe between their boundary and the main - ISTR
stories about this. Can cost tens of thousands.

It also mentions as a result everybodies bills will rise between £3
and 14 a year.

I'm in two minds about this - one the one hand it seems to make the
system fair for everyone. But on the other hand, I suspect the more
well heeled will actually benefit.

Just hadn't heard a squeak about it till I got the letter. Was mildly
surprised.

I received a similar letter a couple of weeks ago - and found it very
unclear as to exactly what was going on.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 at 22:56:54, Mark wrote in uk.legal
:

But then anyone unlucky to have a problem with their drains under the
0 thousands.

How often has this scenario actually happened, I wonder?

How many people have lost their houses and/or gone bankrupt (or at least
plunged deep into debt) because of it?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

JohnW wrote:

On 16 July, 19:51, Tim Watts wrote:

For everyone else (and I haven't read the Act) - does it cover the bit
that goes from your boundary to the road sewer - because the householder
is liable for that too and that can get expensive...


Tim Watts

According to the diagram in the one I have just received from Anglian
Water, the responsibility changes at the property boundary, so yes it
does cover from the boundary to the sewer.

John

Good - that is fairer for everyone then - as you have no chanche to do a DIY
fix on that section and repairs using approved contractors can get very
expensive under the highway.

--
Tim Watts

PeterC wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 18:36:15 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson wrote:

In article ,
Jethro wrote:
Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

South West Water? We got one too..

And since there is a lot of shared sewers round the side/back of my house,
I think I'm OK with it all.

We had them from Anglian. I'm the second house, so the first house has
responsibility to our fence, AW has responsibility then to the main and my
responsibility is from the soil stack to the sewer' manhole about a foot
away :-)

Er, have I got that right?

AIUI it runs like this...technical terms first.

The pipework serving your house are known as 'drains'. Where your
'drains' extend beyond your property, they become known as 'lateral
drains'. Where two or more 'lateral drains' share a common pipe, that
pipe is known as a sewer.

The companies are taking over responsibilty for lateral drains and
sewers.

However...sometimes the pipework layout is such that 'drains' from two
or more houses connect together while still on private property, i.e.
there are no 'lateral drains' and so those 'drains' empty into a
sewer. That sewer will also become the responsibility of the water
company.

In your case it depends where your 'drains' connect to a sewer, so you
could be responsible for all the pipework on your property - it really
depends on the exact layout of drains, sewers, and property
boundaries.

If your neighbouring property is at the end of the line, then they
will be responsible for all the pipework on their property. It will
then become a sewer, and you will be responsible for your pipework
that connects to that sewer. So...you could be right ;-)


--
from
Kim Bolton

On Jul 17, 1:29 am, "Tired" wrote:
Jim K wrote:

Sorry, that is even worse, to adopt, the responsibility to maintain
without the value of the asset.

I don't think councils "buy" unadopted roads.

Jim K

By adopting the road it becomes a public road in the ownership of the
Highway Authority, does it not?

"adopt" yes
"buy" no

(this assumes you know the definition of "buy")

Jim K

On 17/07/2011 08:30, Paul Hyett wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 at 22:56:54, Mark wrote in uk.legal :

But then anyone unlucky to have a problem with their drains under the
0 thousands.

How often has this scenario actually happened, I wonder?

How many people have lost their houses and/or gone bankrupt (or at least
plunged deep into debt) because of it?

It came close for us. I am self-employed and due to two and a half years
of illness, was unable to work more than half hours. Because I was
working those half hours, my insurance policies, benefits, etc. would
not kick in and help us and we were slowly (in fact, fairly rapidly)
sliding into deep debt. Then our drain blocked.

We called in a jetter and they informed us that from the colour of the
muck that was coming back, the drain had collapsed. Further
investigation confirmed collapses under our driveway and under the
centre of the road.

The projected bill came to fifteen thousand pounds. The bit under our
drive I could have at least temporarily repaired for fifty quid and bit
of hard work, but of course I had no control over the section under the
road. Our insurance would cover only a tiny fraction of the cost.

We are the end house in a row of semis and each has it's own connection
to the main sewer. Next to us, on the other side, is a row of bungalows,
each of which has its own connection. By pure good luck, when resolving
a previous blockage on our own property (half a brick left in there
since construction) I had found that the nearest bungalow's kitchen was
not connected to their own drain, but to ours - presumably the builders
at the time thought that this was easiest.

A recollection of something that I'd seen on this newsgroup lead me to
investigate further and we were extremely relieved to find that as both
houses (and therefore the drain) were pre-1937 and the drain was shared,
they were not our responsibilty, but United Utilities.

Any other house on the row would not have had this get-out and would
have been hit by the full bill - then followed by demands for payment,
legal action, bailiffs, etc.

How many people can suddenly find fifteen grand? Many struggle to live
from week to week, have no savings and no way of borrowing money.

SteveW

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 01:29:45 +0100, Tired wrote:

I don't think councils "buy" unadopted roads.

By adopting the road it becomes a public road in the ownership of the
Highway Authority, does it not?

But is any "consideration" exchanged? People are using the word "buy"
to imply the exchange of money, this doesn't have to be the case and
the consideration could be just £1.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Jul 17, 10:24 am, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 01:29:45 +0100, Tired wrote:
I don't think councils "buy" unadopted roads.

By adopting the road it becomes a public road in the ownership of the
Highway Authority, does it not?

But is any "consideration" exchanged? People are using the word "buy"
to imply the exchange of money, this doesn't have to be the case and
the consideration could be just £1.

erm as in "buy for a pound (of money)"
;)

Jim K

On 16/07/2011 18:25, Jethro wrote:
Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

It quotes some act dated this year, and mentions this is to address
the problem where some people discover they are liable to repair
massive runs of sewer pipe between their boundary and the main - ISTR
stories about this. Can cost tens of thousands.

It also mentions as a result everybodies bills will rise between £3
and 14 a year.

I'm in two minds about this - one the one hand it seems to make the
system fair for everyone. But on the other hand, I suspect the more
well heeled will actually benefit.

Just hadn't heard a squeak about it till I got the letter. Was mildly
surprised.

If you read the information correctly what you will find is that it is
only sewers that run *outside* of your property to the main sewer, and
any *shared sewers* on your property that will be taken over.

You will still be responsible for any sewer from your property that
either run to the boundary or until they join a shared sewer.

Jeff

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 01:29:45 +0100, Tired wrote:

I don't think councils "buy" unadopted roads.

By adopting the road it becomes a public road in the ownership of the
Highway Authority, does it not?

But is any "consideration" exchanged? People are using the word "buy"
to imply the exchange of money, this doesn't have to be the case and
the consideration could be just £1.

i was using the term buy in terms of transfer of ownership/liability.

Andy Cap wrote:
PeterC wrote:


We had them from Anglian. I'm the second house, so the first house
has responsibility to our fence, AW has responsibility then to the
main and my responsibility is from the soil stack to the sewer'
manhole about a foot away :-)
Er, have I got that right?

No I don't believe so ! The WC will have responsibility for the whole
length of formerly, private sewer. Each householder will then only be
responsible for the connection into the private sewer. I think it's a
great idea as our shared sewer (18 houses) goes under the road.

Andy C

As i understood, any part of the sewer that is in shared ownership
transfers, but that means, say you are on a block of three houses, you are
in house one, and the connection to what is now the water company sewer is
past house three, a simple diagram would be a line running parallel to the
three houses, but ten foot back. From each of the houses a ten foot line
extends out.

House one is responsible for that ten foot line, *plus* the parallel line
until it hits the property of house two which becomes shared. From that
point on, for house two and three *only* the ten foot pipe remains their
liability, while the parallel pipe, the part that is shared by house one,
two and three is covered by the water company right up to connection to the
sewer.

Paul Hyett wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 at 22:56:54, Mark wrote in
uk.legal


But then anyone unlucky to have a problem with their drains under the
0 thousands.

How often has this scenario actually happened, I wonder?

How many people have lost their houses and/or gone bankrupt (or at
least plunged deep into debt) because of it?

It can easily hit a few grand for collapsed drains, in fact on unadopted
roads that are poorly maintained, collapsed drains are quite common and can
add a couple of zeros for total costs.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 01:29:45 +0100, Tired wrote:

I don't think councils "buy" unadopted roads.
By adopting the road it becomes a public road in the ownership of the
Highway Authority, does it not?

But is any "consideration" exchanged? People are using the word "buy"
to imply the exchange of money, this doesn't have to be the case and
the consideration could be just £1.

Things may have changed but after refusing for years to take
responsibilty for the side road where I lived as a child (whilst not
allowing it to be private with residents controlling traffic) they
announced thay would adopt it from a certain date and make it up etc.
And charge owners on a per foot road boundary basis. Compulsory. Appeal
failed.

Presumably coincidentally, a few weeks after the letter a developer
appeared and offered to buy a large part of land at the back of our
house. For a very similar amount that the road was costing. What a nice man!

On Jul 17, 10:57 am, "Tired" wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 01:29:45 +0100, Tired wrote:

I don't think councils "buy" unadopted roads.

By adopting the road it becomes a public road in the ownership of the
Highway Authority, does it not?

But is any "consideration" exchanged? People are using the word "buy"
to imply the exchange of money, this doesn't have to be the case and
the consideration could be just 1.

i was using the term buy in terms of transfer of ownership/liability.

? theres me thinking you were using the normal accepted definition of
the verb....rather than a made up one ;)

Jim K

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 09:18:39 +0100, Kim Bolton wrote:

PeterC wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 18:36:15 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson wrote:

In article ,
Jethro wrote:
Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

South West Water? We got one too..

And since there is a lot of shared sewers round the side/back of my house,
I think I'm OK with it all.

We had them from Anglian. I'm the second house, so the first house has
responsibility to our fence, AW has responsibility then to the main and my
responsibility is from the soil stack to the sewer' manhole about a foot
away :-)

Er, have I got that right?

AIUI it runs like this...technical terms first.

The pipework serving your house are known as 'drains'. Where your
'drains' extend beyond your property, they become known as 'lateral
drains'. Where two or more 'lateral drains' share a common pipe, that
pipe is known as a sewer.

Ah - I'd wondered about the terminology.

The companies are taking over responsibilty for lateral drains and
sewers.

However...sometimes the pipework layout is such that 'drains' from two
or more houses connect together while still on private property, i.e.
there are no 'lateral drains' and so those 'drains' empty into a
sewer. That sewer will also become the responsibility of the water
company.

In your case it depends where your 'drains' connect to a sewer, so you
could be responsible for all the pipework on your property - it really
depends on the exact layout of drains, sewers, and property
boundaries.

If your neighbouring property is at the end of the line, then they
will be responsible for all the pipework on their property. It will
then become a sewer, and you will be responsible for your pipework
that connects to that sewer. So...you could be right ;-)
Yes, it is at the end of the line. My stack goes in at about 80% of the way
to the next fence but, AIUI, I'm not responsible for the section from the
upstream fence to my input (output?), only for the section from my stack to
the (now) sewer - that is about a foot or so long to the manhole so
shouldn't be too difficult to access.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 11:03:55 +0100, Tired wrote:

Andy Cap wrote:
PeterC wrote:


We had them from Anglian. I'm the second house, so the first house
has responsibility to our fence, AW has responsibility then to the
main and my responsibility is from the soil stack to the sewer'
manhole about a foot away :-)
Er, have I got that right?

No I don't believe so ! The WC will have responsibility for the whole
length of formerly, private sewer. Each householder will then only be
responsible for the connection into the private sewer. I think it's a
great idea as our shared sewer (18 houses) goes under the road.

Andy C

As i understood, any part of the sewer that is in shared ownership
transfers, but that means, say you are on a block of three houses, you are
in house one, and the connection to what is now the water company sewer is
past house three, a simple diagram would be a line running parallel to the
three houses, but ten foot back. From each of the houses a ten foot line
extends out.

House one is responsible for that ten foot line, *plus* the parallel line
until it hits the property of house two which becomes shared. From that
point on, for house two and three *only* the ten foot pipe remains their
liability, while the parallel pipe, the part that is shared by house one,
two and three is covered by the water company right up to connection to the
sewer.

Yup, that's how I interpreted it, so I have ~1ft!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 17/07/2011 10:52, Jeff wrote:
On 16/07/2011 18:25, Jethro wrote:
Had a letter from my water company today, saying that they are gong to
adopt any unadopted sewers that might run from my house, but beyond my
property ... unless I appeal it happens on October 1st 2011

It quotes some act dated this year, and mentions this is to address
the problem where some people discover they are liable to repair
massive runs of sewer pipe between their boundary and the main - ISTR
stories about this. Can cost tens of thousands.

It also mentions as a result everybodies bills will rise between £3
and 14 a year.

I'm in two minds about this - one the one hand it seems to make the
system fair for everyone. But on the other hand, I suspect the more
well heeled will actually benefit.

Just hadn't heard a squeak about it till I got the letter. Was mildly
surprised.

If you read the information correctly what you will find is that it is
only sewers that run *outside* of your property to the main sewer, and
any *shared sewers* on your property that will be taken over.

You will still be responsible for any sewer from your property that
either run to the boundary or until they join a shared sewer.

Jeff
All the information I have seen covers either lateral drains from the
boundary across public land to the sewer, OR drains to join a shared
sewer at the property boundary with private land of a neighbour.

It is possible that I have a drain that crossed neighbouring private
land without sharing before running to the main sewer in the road. I say
possible as the property was built in around 1890 and boundaries have
shifted and properties changed in that time.

The question is whether the responsibility shifts to the water company
for the drain outside my property as far as the sewer even if it runs
through other private land and is not shared.

The pipe in question is normal 4"(?) saltglaze. (Another drain - around
12" diameter - comes into my property from somewhere else (I rodded it
60ft) but is disused and partially blocked with roots but then takes
surface water straight towards the road.)

Pete