"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


You see, this is where nannying people gets really silly. It's a shop.
Chances are it will have doors on the front so that it can be made secure
when it's not open. When the lights are on inside, it's probably open, but
there's a better than even chance that the doors are closed, so don't just
walk into them. And if your eyesight is so bad that you can't see shop
doors made from bloody great blue powder coated steel frames with shiny
glass in them, then you really need to either see a good optician, or
register for a guide dog.


Only a few percent of blind people have dogs.

And if your eyes are that bad, then I guess you probably know to be
careful about such things. As for kids running into shop doors, we've all
done it ourselves, and I'm sure all of our own kids have. The doors ain't
gonna break,

I broke one once, Woolies in West Bromwich.

and about the worst that's going to happen, is the kid is going to get a
bruised forehead, and a bruised ego,

Or worse.
The H&S practices that have been around for a few decades aren't made up
rules by idiots in schools, they are there because things have happened in
the past that need to be avoided.

but a valuable lesson in the dangers of being alive. And they are sliding
doors with motors.

Well at least they can't swing and hit someone.


Anyway you are taking a very negative view on this.. its an opportunity..
even if its only a sticker with your opening times or burger of the week.
You could even stick a cheap LED picture frame to the door and have a
powerpoint slide show giving enticing images to get people into the shop.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

problem with looking through the doors ...


There are plenty of people out there that can't see a clear glass door.
Worse is the little kids who will see something exciting and run straight
into the door.

Good - they'll only do it once. If they persist, there's always the hope
of
Darwin kicking in.

For God's sake - it's because of this type of thinking that this country
is
full of inept fools.

Nice to see that you think the people with sight problems are inept fools.
What does that make you?

"Toby" wrote in message
...


The shop next door to my dads business had clear glass in the main large
window, a child ran into this and managed to break it, knocking him out,
my
dad dragged him out from under the unbroken secton of glass above the
broken piece, only to then see that piece slide down guillotine style....

When I worked for Chubb alarms in Brum (only for about 6 months in ~1971)
there was a drunk who put his arm through a window.. we know, because the
boarding up squad found it in the pile of glass.
The police found the guy later standing in the queue for fish and chips with
blood everywhere and nobody taking any notice of it.
I have been very careful with glass since.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Toby" wrote in message
...


The shop next door to my dads business had clear glass in the main large
window, a child ran into this and managed to break it, knocking him out,
my
dad dragged him out from under the unbroken secton of glass above the
broken piece, only to then see that piece slide down guillotine style....

When I worked for Chubb alarms in Brum (only for about 6 months in ~1971)
there was a drunk who put his arm through a window.. we know, because the
boarding up squad found it in the pile of glass.
The police found the guy later standing in the queue for fish and chips
with blood everywhere and nobody taking any notice of it.
I have been very careful with glass since.

Yeah, OK. I take the points being made, but I'm not stupid, you know. I've
managed to get through the better part of 60 years so far without killing
myself, or anyone else - including customers - as a result of any negligent
practices. Likewise, my kids have managed to rack up over 75 years between
them, without harming themselves, or others, so between the lot of us, we
must be doing something right. Of course, you are always going to be able to
find some one-in-a-million possibility in any situation, and everyone's got
an anecdotal - although I often suspect urban myth-ish - tale of woe to
cover any possibility, no matter how remote, but in years gone by, people
took responsibility for working these things out for themselves, and
teaching their kids. It really annoys me that now, kids and their parents
are so thick, that common sense has to be legislated for, instead of learned
....

Arfa

dennis@home wrote:



"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

problem with looking through the doors ...


There are plenty of people out there that can't see a clear glass door.
Worse is the little kids who will see something exciting and run
straight into the door.

Good - they'll only do it once. If they persist, there's always the hope
of
Darwin kicking in.

For God's sake - it's because of this type of thinking that this country
is
full of inept fools.

Nice to see that you think the people with sight problems are inept fools.
What does that make you?

People with sight problems usually compensate with either holding their hand
out or have a stick. Even a clear glass door has enough visual clues such as
handles or metal framing. I've yet to encounter a door that was totally
devoid of any clues.

You must be from the same school of people that insist on puting bright
yellow panels on train doors.
--
Tim Watts

Tim Watts wrote:
dennis@home wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

problem with looking through the doors ...
There are plenty of people out there that can't see a clear glass door.
Worse is the little kids who will see something exciting and run
straight into the door.
Good - they'll only do it once. If they persist, there's always the hope
of
Darwin kicking in.

For God's sake - it's because of this type of thinking that this country
is
full of inept fools.
Nice to see that you think the people with sight problems are inept fools.
What does that make you?

People with sight problems usually compensate with either holding their hand
out or have a stick. Even a clear glass door has enough visual clues such as
handles or metal framing. I've yet to encounter a door that was totally
devoid of any clues.

You must be from the same school of people that insist on puting bright
yellow panels on train doors.

Just be guided by the building regulations in this case, which IIRC are
quite specific.

If the door has a 'substantial frame' then full glazing is OK

Otherwise simply stick something on 1.5 meters from ground level.

A corporate logos is fine.

What does the BCO say?

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:



"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

problem with looking through the doors ...


There are plenty of people out there that can't see a clear glass door.
Worse is the little kids who will see something exciting and run
straight into the door.

Good - they'll only do it once. If they persist, there's always the hope
of
Darwin kicking in.

For God's sake - it's because of this type of thinking that this country
is
full of inept fools.

Nice to see that you think the people with sight problems are inept
fools.
What does that make you?

People with sight problems usually compensate with either holding their
hand
out or have a stick. Even a clear glass door has enough visual clues such
as
handles or metal framing. I've yet to encounter a door that was totally
devoid of any clues.

You must be from the same school of people that insist on puting bright
yellow panels on train doors.

What is wrong with that?
Next you will be saying you don't need white lines on roads.
--
Tim Watts

dennis@home wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

You must be from the same school of people that insist on puting bright
yellow panels on train doors.

What is wrong with that?
Next you will be saying you don't need white lines on roads.

They tried that in a town in the Netherlands, and they found that the
accident rate went down.......

In fact, they removed *all* lane markings, traffic signs and traffic
lights, and just let people get on with it. Accidents went down, and the
average speed of all traffic, including bikes, went up.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

You must be from the same school of people that insist on puting bright
yellow panels on train doors.

What is wrong with that?
Next you will be saying you don't need white lines on roads.

They tried that in a town in the Netherlands, and they found that the
accident rate went down.......

In fact, they removed *all* lane markings, traffic signs and traffic
lights, and just let people get on with it. Accidents went down, and the
average speed of all traffic, including bikes, went up.

Maybe drivers can see over there.. they obviously can't over here or they
wouldn't keep getting caught by the bright yellow speed cameras.

IMO its not possible to get caught by a bright yellow speed camera unless
you are *really* stupid. So stupid that they should put 12 points on for
each offence.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...


In fact, they removed *all* lane markings, traffic signs and traffic
lights, and just let people get on with it. Accidents went down, and the
average speed of all traffic, including bikes, went up.

And probably all the car drivers got home with a headache due to having to
concentrate much harder than before - bikes, people, all where you
shouldn't have to be expecting them.

rubbish, you should be expecting them anyway.

Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
John Williamson wrote:

dennis@home wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

You must be from the same school of people that insist on puting
bright
yellow panels on train doors.
What is wrong with that?
Next you will be saying you don't need white lines on roads.

They tried that in a town in the Netherlands, and they found that the
accident rate went down.......

In fact, they removed *all* lane markings, traffic signs and traffic
lights, and just let people get on with it. Accidents went down, and
the average speed of all traffic, including bikes, went up.

And probably all the car drivers got home with a headache due to having
to concentrate much harder than before - bikes, people, all where you
shouldn't have to be expecting them.

Apparently, it all worked very well, with people being remarkably
sensible about where they went. They claimed it was due to road users
not having to concentrate on all the signs, and just be aware of traffic
conditions. The rules of the road all still applied, in that you had to
drive/ ride on the right, and pedestrians sensibly kept to the pavements
unless they were crossing the road, while paying attention to oncoming
traffic. Give way to the right is the main rule, and that's easy to apply.

Read more he-

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...448747,00.html

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Tim Streater wrote:

In article ,
John Williamson wrote:

They tried that in a town in the Netherlands, and they found that the
accident rate went down.......

In fact, they removed *all* lane markings, traffic signs and traffic
lights, and just let people get on with it. Accidents went down, and the
average speed of all traffic, including bikes, went up.

And probably all the car drivers got home with a headache due to having
to concentrate much harder than before - bikes, people, all where you
shouldn't have to be expecting them.

It will be interesting to see how it works in London

http://www.south-kensington.com/diary2.asp?diary_id=893

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On 04/07/2011 12:11, dennis@home wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:



"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

problem with looking through the doors ...


There are plenty of people out there that can't see a clear glass
door.
Worse is the little kids who will see something exciting and run
straight into the door.

Good - they'll only do it once. If they persist, there's always the
hope
of
Darwin kicking in.

For God's sake - it's because of this type of thinking that this
country
is
full of inept fools.

Nice to see that you think the people with sight problems are inept
fools.
What does that make you?

People with sight problems usually compensate with either holding
their hand
out or have a stick. Even a clear glass door has enough visual clues
such as
handles or metal framing. I've yet to encounter a door that was totally
devoid of any clues.

You must be from the same school of people that insist on puting bright
yellow panels on train doors.

What is wrong with that?
Next you will be saying you don't need white lines on roads.
--
Tim Watts


Someone at some point is bound to walk into totally clear glass. I
thought someone had pinched my car windscreen the other day, and then I
realised I'd cleaned it.

dennis@home wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

problem with looking through the doors ...


There are plenty of people out there that can't see a clear glass
door. Worse is the little kids who will see something exciting and
run straight into the door.

Good - they'll only do it once. If they persist, there's always the
hope of
Darwin kicking in.

For God's sake - it's because of this type of thinking that this
country is
full of inept fools.

Nice to see that you think the people with sight problems are inept
fools. What does that make you?

Students are the fools. I was in the police station today [1] and a student
came in to report someone trying to break into a car in the car park across
the road.

Now on his way out there was a sign saying "automatic door". He walked up
to the door and back three times. He then started wavings his arms about.
Eventually he went back to the counter and asked the woman to open the doors
for him.

She then explained that it was 22 deg, hot and and sunny and the doors were
in fact already wide open open.

IMHO she should have given him a job application form as the police seem to
employ brain dead retards and he seemed suitably qualified.

[1] The car in front of me had a handbag sat on the roof. When it fell off I
stopped and picked it up.

--
Adam

On 04/07/2011 15:36, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

problem with looking through the doors ...


There are plenty of people out there that can't see a clear glass
door. Worse is the little kids who will see something exciting and
run straight into the door.

Good - they'll only do it once. If they persist, there's always the
hope of
Darwin kicking in.

For God's sake - it's because of this type of thinking that this
country is
full of inept fools.

Nice to see that you think the people with sight problems are inept
fools. What does that make you?

Students are the fools. I was in the police station today [1] and a student
came in to report someone trying to break into a car in the car park across
the road.

Now on his way out there was a sign saying "automatic door". He walked up
to the door and back three times. He then started wavings his arms about.
Eventually he went back to the counter and asked the woman to open the doors
for him.

She then explained that it was 22 deg, hot and and sunny and the doors were
in fact already wide open open.

IMHO she should have given him a job application form as the police seem to
employ brain dead retards and he seemed suitably qualified.

[1] The car in front of me had a handbag sat on the roof. When it fell off I
stopped and picked it up.


Out of interest, how did you know he was a student? Was he carrying a
book or something?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Tim Watts wrote:
dennis@home wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

problem with looking through the doors ...
There are plenty of people out there that can't see a clear glass
door.
Worse is the little kids who will see something exciting and run
straight into the door.
Good - they'll only do it once. If they persist, there's always the
hope
of
Darwin kicking in.

For God's sake - it's because of this type of thinking that this
country
is
full of inept fools.
Nice to see that you think the people with sight problems are inept
fools.
What does that make you?

People with sight problems usually compensate with either holding their
hand out or have a stick. Even a clear glass door has enough visual clues
such as handles or metal framing. I've yet to encounter a door that was
totally devoid of any clues.

You must be from the same school of people that insist on puting bright
yellow panels on train doors.

Just be guided by the building regulations in this case, which IIRC are
quite specific.

If the door has a 'substantial frame' then full glazing is OK

Otherwise simply stick something on 1.5 meters from ground level.

A corporate logos is fine.

What does the BCO say?

Crikey ! What have I started now ... Before this all gets *very* silly and
OT, the doors most certainly *do* have a substantial frame, including a wide
metal lump up the middle, where the two sliding doors join when closed.
That, according to the above, means that when the manufacturer designed them
with commercial premises in mind, and the architect specced them for use in
the front of our shop, as well as all the others in the parade, they both
got it right, so as far as I'm concerned, they comply with the relevant regs
and controls, and if anyone is dumb enough to walk into them, then that's
their problem, not ours ...

Arfa

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

You must be from the same school of people that insist on puting bright
yellow panels on train doors.

What is wrong with that?
Next you will be saying you don't need white lines on roads.

They tried that in a town in the Netherlands, and they found that the
accident rate went down.......

In fact, they removed *all* lane markings, traffic signs and traffic
lights, and just let people get on with it. Accidents went down, and the
average speed of all traffic, including bikes, went up.

Maybe drivers can see over there.. they obviously can't over here or they
wouldn't keep getting caught by the bright yellow speed cameras.

IMO its not possible to get caught by a bright yellow speed camera unless
you are *really* stupid. So stupid that they should put 12 points on for
each offence.

Well, if people are too stupid to see doors in the front of shops, I would
think that it's quite easy to see how they could miss speed cameras ...

Arfa

stuart noble wrote:
On 04/07/2011 15:36, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

problem with looking through the doors ...


There are plenty of people out there that can't see a clear glass
door. Worse is the little kids who will see something exciting and
run straight into the door.

Good - they'll only do it once. If they persist, there's always the
hope of
Darwin kicking in.

For God's sake - it's because of this type of thinking that this
country is
full of inept fools.

Nice to see that you think the people with sight problems are inept
fools. What does that make you?

Students are the fools. I was in the police station today [1] and a
student came in to report someone trying to break into a car in the
car park across the road.

Now on his way out there was a sign saying "automatic door". He
walked up to the door and back three times. He then started wavings
his arms about. Eventually he went back to the counter and asked the
woman to open the doors for him.

She then explained that it was 22 deg, hot and and sunny and the
doors were in fact already wide open open.

IMHO she should have given him a job application form as the police
seem to employ brain dead retards and he seemed suitably qualified.

[1] The car in front of me had a handbag sat on the roof. When it
fell off I stopped and picked it up.


Out of interest, how did you know he was a student? Was he carrying a
book or something?

Easier than that. He said he was in a rush to get to college. His haircut
and age suggested that he was not a teacher!

--
Adam

dennis@home wrote:
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


You see, this is where nannying people gets really silly. It's a
shop. Chances are it will have doors on the front so that it can be
made secure when it's not open. When the lights are on inside, it's
probably open, but there's a better than even chance that the doors
are closed, so don't just walk into them. And if your eyesight is so
bad that you can't see shop doors made from bloody great blue powder
coated steel frames with shiny glass in them, then you really need
to either see a good optician, or register for a guide dog.


Only a few percent of blind people have dogs.

And if your eyes are that bad, then I guess you probably know to be
careful about such things. As for kids running into shop doors,
we've all done it ourselves, and I'm sure all of our own kids have.
The doors ain't gonna break,

I broke one once, Woolies in West Bromwich.

That only proves that Woolies doors are not foolproof.


--
Adam

Arfa Daily wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

You must be from the same school of people that insist on puting
bright yellow panels on train doors.

What is wrong with that?
Next you will be saying you don't need white lines on roads.

They tried that in a town in the Netherlands, and they found that
the accident rate went down.......

In fact, they removed *all* lane markings, traffic signs and traffic
lights, and just let people get on with it. Accidents went down,
and the average speed of all traffic, including bikes, went up.

Maybe drivers can see over there.. they obviously can't over here or
they wouldn't keep getting caught by the bright yellow speed cameras.

IMO its not possible to get caught by a bright yellow speed camera
unless you are *really* stupid. So stupid that they should put 12
points on for each offence.

Well, if people are too stupid to see doors in the front of shops, I
would think that it's quite easy to see how they could miss speed
cameras ...

But what about the blind people:-)

They are not stupid but they have enough of a hard time staying on the
correct side of the road without all that hassle of speed cameras.

There is a myth that a blind American rock star drove the tour bus home one
night because all the roadies were too drugged/****ed up to drive it. Anyone
know who it was supposed to be? I cannot find the reference anymore.

--
Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...


There is a myth that a blind American rock star drove the tour bus home
one night because all the roadies were too drugged/****ed up to drive it.
Anyone know who it was supposed to be? I cannot find the reference
anymore.

It has been known for registered blind people to drive, some could even pass
the required eyesight test.
I recall a case where the police were unable to prevent such a person from
driving but were able to keep stopping them so they got nowhere.

dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...


There is a myth that a blind American rock star drove the tour bus
home one night because all the roadies were too drugged/****ed up to
drive it. Anyone know who it was supposed to be? I cannot find the
reference anymore.

It has been known for registered blind people to drive, some could
even pass the required eyesight test.
I recall a case where the police were unable to prevent such a person
from driving but were able to keep stopping them so they got nowhere.

In what country was that?

India?

--
Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...


There is a myth that a blind American rock star drove the tour bus
home one night because all the roadies were too drugged/****ed up to
drive it. Anyone know who it was supposed to be? I cannot find the
reference anymore.

It has been known for registered blind people to drive, some could
even pass the required eyesight test.
I recall a case where the police were unable to prevent such a person
from driving but were able to keep stopping them so they got nowhere.

In what country was that?

England, maybe Wales.

dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...


There is a myth that a blind American rock star drove the tour bus
home one night because all the roadies were too drugged/****ed up
to drive it. Anyone know who it was supposed to be? I cannot find
the reference anymore.

It has been known for registered blind people to drive, some could
even pass the required eyesight test.
I recall a case where the police were unable to prevent such a
person from driving but were able to keep stopping them so they got
nowhere.

In what country was that?

England, maybe Wales.

Reference. Or are you talking ********?

--
Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...


There is a myth that a blind American rock star drove the tour bus
home one night because all the roadies were too drugged/****ed up
to drive it. Anyone know who it was supposed to be? I cannot find
the reference anymore.

It has been known for registered blind people to drive, some could
even pass the required eyesight test.
I recall a case where the police were unable to prevent such a
person from driving but were able to keep stopping them so they got
nowhere.

In what country was that?

England, maybe Wales.

Reference. Or are you talking ********?

Do your own research.. it predates google.
As a hint, you don't have to be completely blind to be registered blind.
For a second hint, you can have "perfect" vision when reading a chart or a
number plate and still not be able to see well.
Google for tunnel vision.

dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...


There is a myth that a blind American rock star drove the tour
bus home one night because all the roadies were too
drugged/****ed up to drive it. Anyone know who it was supposed
to be? I cannot find the reference anymore.

It has been known for registered blind people to drive, some could
even pass the required eyesight test.
I recall a case where the police were unable to prevent such a
person from driving but were able to keep stopping them so they
got nowhere.

In what country was that?

England, maybe Wales.

Reference. Or are you talking ********?

Do your own research.. it predates google.

******** then.

As a hint, you don't have to be completely blind to be registered
blind.

That is not news.

For a second hint, you can have "perfect" vision when reading
a chart or a number plate and still not be able to see well.
Google for tunnel vision.

Can I add optometrist to your vast collection of sklls?

--
Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...


There is a myth that a blind American rock star drove the tour
bus home one night because all the roadies were too
drugged/****ed up to drive it. Anyone know who it was supposed
to be? I cannot find the reference anymore.

It has been known for registered blind people to drive, some could
even pass the required eyesight test.
I recall a case where the police were unable to prevent such a
person from driving but were able to keep stopping them so they
got nowhere.

In what country was that?

England, maybe Wales.

Reference. Or are you talking ********?

Do your own research.. it predates google.

******** then.

As a hint, you don't have to be completely blind to be registered
blind.

That is not news.

For a second hint, you can have "perfect" vision when reading
a chart or a number plate and still not be able to see well.
Google for tunnel vision.

Can I add optometrist to your vast collection of sklls?

You can add what you like, you have no idea what my skills are.

dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...


There is a myth that a blind American rock star drove the tour
bus home one night because all the roadies were too
drugged/****ed up to drive it. Anyone know who it was supposed
to be? I cannot find the reference anymore.

It has been known for registered blind people to drive, some
could even pass the required eyesight test.
I recall a case where the police were unable to prevent such a
person from driving but were able to keep stopping them so they
got nowhere.

In what country was that?

England, maybe Wales.

Reference. Or are you talking ********?

Do your own research.. it predates google.

******** then.

As a hint, you don't have to be completely blind to be registered
blind.

That is not news.

For a second hint, you can have "perfect" vision when reading
a chart or a number plate and still not be able to see well.
Google for tunnel vision.

Can I add optometrist to your vast collection of sklls?

You can add what you like, you have no idea what my skills are.

Acting like a steaming great **** is not a skill.

You have no other skills.


--
Adam