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Solar PV --- so anyway ...
So anyway lads (and lasses?) --- since the original thread has diverged
and meandered in very interesting ways from JimK's original question ... Where does this fit in? [1] http://www.eonenergy.com/At-Home/Pro...-energy/SolarE xchange/ According to this, EoN (who happen to be our gas/elec suppliers, and I'm pretty pleased with them, touch wood) will do me the job for £99. So does this mean: "Pay us £99, we'll give you some cheap electricity, and we, and our partners, will take most of the proceeds." ??? Or to put it another way, "Lend us your roof, guv!" John [1] I had googled for this *before* seeing Jim's question, as a result of the happy news that (surprise surprise) fuel bills are going up by *20%* this year (10% just ain't enough any more). (put that in your inflation basket and massage it, Mr Cameron) |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
"Another John" wrote in message ... So anyway lads (and lasses?) --- since the original thread has diverged and meandered in very interesting ways from JimK's original question ... Where does this fit in? [1] http://www.eonenergy.com/At-Home/Pro...-energy/SolarE xchange/ According to this, EoN (who happen to be our gas/elec suppliers, and I'm pretty pleased with them, touch wood) will do me the job for £99. So does this mean: "Pay us £99, we'll give you some cheap electricity, and we, and our partners, will take most of the proceeds." ??? Or to put it another way, "Lend us your roof, guv!" Yep (though it's we'll give you some free electricity) WTP? tim |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
In article ,
"tim...." wrote: WTP? hh :-D |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 15, 2:43*pm, "tim...." wrote:
"Another John" wrote in message .... So anyway lads (and lasses?) --- since the original thread has diverged and meandered in very interesting ways from JimK's original question .... Where does this fit in? [1] http://www.eonenergy.com/At-Home/Pro...-own-energy/So... xchange/ According to this, EoN *(who happen to be our gas/elec suppliers, and I'm pretty pleased with them, touch wood) will do me the job for 99. So does this mean: "Pay us 99, we'll give you some cheap electricity, and we, and our partners, will take most of the proceeds." ??? Or to put it another way, "Lend us your roof, guv!" Yep (though it's we'll give you some free electricity) WTP? tim So I pay £99. They get to generate (say) 3000kwh from my roof over the year. I get to benefit from what ever of those kwh I happen to be in the house at the time to use (given that I go to work, I'm mostly away in the day time). They maintain the solar PV kit, I give them the right to have space on my roof (which binds future purchasers of my house) for 25 years, and they take the FIT proceeds. I get the smug (or not so smug) feeling of being "green" and get slightly cheaper electricity (which will without a doubt cover the £99 layout). Apart from the 25 year commitment, I would have thought that they'd get quite a good take up on this. Clearly if you've got the cash to invest in PV kit for yourself, the economics seem to make it a no- brainer at the moment, but if you've not (and you don't want to saddle yourself with a long term finance arrangement to fund the kit) then I would have thought there would be a good take up of this. Matt |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
In article
, larkim wrote: So I pay £99. They get to generate (say) 3000kwh from my roof over the year. I get to benefit from what ever of those kwh I happen to be in the house at the time to use (given that I go to work, I'm mostly away in the day time). They maintain the solar PV kit, I give them the right to have space on my roof (which binds future purchasers of my house) for 25 years, and they take the FIT proceeds. I get the smug (or not so smug) feeling of being "green" and get slightly cheaper electricity (which will without a doubt cover the £99 layout). Apart from the 25 year commitment, I would have thought that they'd get quite a good take up on this. Clearly if you've got the cash to invest in PV kit for yourself, the economics seem to make it a no- brainer at the moment, but if you've not (and you don't want to saddle yourself with a long term finance arrangement to fund the kit) then I would have thought there would be a good take up of this. Thanks for that Matt: now I understand it all thoroughly! Hmmm ... I wonder what estate agents will say, in about 5 years time, about 25-year leases on part of my roof .... hmmm... thinks.... John |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 15, 5:56 pm, Another John wrote:
In article , larkim wrote: So I pay 99. They get to generate (say) 3000kwh from my roof over the year. I get to benefit from what ever of those kwh I happen to be in the house at the time to use (given that I go to work, I'm mostly away in the day time). They maintain the solar PV kit, I give them the right to have space on my roof (which binds future purchasers of my house) for 25 years, and they take the FIT proceeds. I get the smug (or not so smug) feeling of being "green" and get slightly cheaper electricity (which will without a doubt cover the 99 layout). Apart from the 25 year commitment, I would have thought that they'd get quite a good take up on this. Clearly if you've got the cash to invest in PV kit for yourself, the economics seem to make it a no- brainer at the moment, but if you've not (and you don't want to saddle yourself with a long term finance arrangement to fund the kit) then I would have thought there would be a good take up of this. Thanks for that Matt: now I understand it all thoroughly! Hmmm ... I wonder what estate agents will say, in about 5 years time, about 25-year leases on part of my roof .... hmmm... thinks.... John be the purchasers' solicitors' response I'd be most interested in..... Jim K |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 15, 2:26*pm, Another John wrote:
So anyway lads (and lasses?) --- since the original thread has diverged and meandered in very interesting ways from JimK's original question ... Where does this fit in? [1] http://www.eonenergy.com/At-Home/Pro...-own-energy/So... xchange/ According to this, EoN *(who happen to be our gas/elec suppliers, and I'm pretty pleased with them, touch wood) will do me the job for £99. * So does this mean: "Pay us £99, we'll give you some cheap electricity, and we, and our partners, will take most of the proceeds." ??? Or to put it another way, "Lend us your roof, guv!" John [1] *I had googled for this *before* seeing Jim's question, as a result of the happy news that (surprise surprise) fuel bills are going up by *20%* this year *(10% just ain't enough any more). *(put that in your inflation basket and massage it, Mr Cameron) I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers & what have you. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 15, 5:04*pm, larkim wrote:
On Jun 15, 2:43*pm, "tim...." wrote: "Another John" wrote in message .... So anyway lads (and lasses?) --- since the original thread has diverged and meandered in very interesting ways from JimK's original question .... Where does this fit in? [1] http://www.eonenergy.com/At-Home/Pro...-own-energy/So.... xchange/ According to this, EoN *(who happen to be our gas/elec suppliers, and I'm pretty pleased with them, touch wood) will do me the job for 99. So does this mean: "Pay us 99, we'll give you some cheap electricity, and we, and our partners, will take most of the proceeds." ??? Or to put it another way, "Lend us your roof, guv!" Yep (though it's we'll give you some free electricity) WTP? tim So I pay £99. *They get to generate (say) 3000kwh from my roof over the year. *I get to benefit from what ever of those kwh I happen to be in the house at the time to use (given that I go to work, I'm mostly away in the day time). They maintain the solar PV kit, I give them the right to have space on my roof (which binds future purchasers of my house) for 25 years, and they take the FIT proceeds. *I get the smug (or not so smug) feeling of being "green" and get slightly cheaper electricity (which will without a doubt cover the £99 layout). Apart from the 25 year commitment, I would have thought that they'd get quite a good take up on this. *Clearly if you've got the cash to invest in PV kit for yourself, the economics seem to make it a no- brainer at the moment, but if you've not (and you don't want to saddle yourself with a long term finance arrangement to fund the kit) then I would have thought there would be a good take up of this. Matt- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You need to think about what you will tell any prospective house buyer in the future too. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 15, 6:24*pm, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 15, 5:56 pm, Another John wrote: In article , *larkim wrote: So I pay 99. *They get to generate (say) 3000kwh from my roof over the year. *I get to benefit from what ever of those kwh I happen to be in the house at the time to use (given that I go to work, I'm mostly away in the day time). They maintain the solar PV kit, I give them the right to have space on my roof (which binds future purchasers of my house) for 25 years, and they take the FIT proceeds. *I get the smug (or not so smug) feeling of being "green" and get slightly cheaper electricity (which will without a doubt cover the 99 layout). Apart from the 25 year commitment, I would have thought that they'd get quite a good take up on this. *Clearly if you've got the cash to invest in PV kit for yourself, the economics seem to make it a no- brainer at the moment, but if you've not (and you don't want to saddle yourself with a long term finance arrangement to fund the kit) then I would have thought there would be a good take up of this. Thanks for that Matt: now I understand it all thoroughly! Hmmm ... I wonder what estate agents will say, in about 5 years time, about 25-year leases on part of my roof .... *hmmm... thinks.... John be the purchasers' solicitors' response I'd be most interested in..... Jim K- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It will be common I think in the future. But still undesireable I think. There will be a standard "solution" |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 15, 2:26*pm, Another John wrote:
So anyway lads (and lasses?) --- since the original thread has diverged and meandered in very interesting ways from JimK's original question ... Where does this fit in? [1] http://www.eonenergy.com/At-Home/Pro...-own-energy/So... xchange/ According to this, EoN *(who happen to be our gas/elec suppliers, and I'm pretty pleased with them, touch wood) will do me the job for £99. * So does this mean: "Pay us £99, we'll give you some cheap electricity, and we, and our partners, will take most of the proceeds." ??? Or to put it another way, "Lend us your roof, guv!" John [1] *I had googled for this *before* seeing Jim's question, as a result of the happy news that (surprise surprise) fuel bills are going up by *20%* this year *(10% just ain't enough any more). *(put that in your inflation basket and massage it, Mr Cameron) You need to consider the seasons. I have a 3.88Kwp array. The most I have ever generated is 29Kwh/day. It peaks at max for maybe four hours. But his is in ideal weather. I average 17kwh for maybe half the days (April,May.June) Max for a couple of hours. In Winter you will be down to 3Kwh/day, less on a bad day. Snow? There will be few max Kw days and the days sare shorter. But it is more efficient in cold weather. Passing clouds make a huge difference. A slight haze knocks 500watts off output. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
"harry" wrote in message ... On Jun 15, 2:26 pm, Another John wrote: So anyway lads (and lasses?) --- since the original thread has diverged and meandered in very interesting ways from JimK's original question ... Where does this fit in? [1] http://www.eonenergy.com/At-Home/Pro...-own-energy/So... xchange/ According to this, EoN (who happen to be our gas/elec suppliers, and I'm pretty pleased with them, touch wood) will do me the job for £99. So does this mean: "Pay us £99, we'll give you some cheap electricity, and we, and our partners, will take most of the proceeds." ??? Or to put it another way, "Lend us your roof, guv!" John [1] I had googled for this *before* seeing Jim's question, as a result of the happy news that (surprise surprise) fuel bills are going up by *20%* this year (10% just ain't enough any more). (put that in your inflation basket and massage it, Mr Cameron) I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers & what have you. If I fit them I will run the aircon when its sunny.. hang on that's what I do now. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 15, 7:27*pm, harry wrote:
On Jun 15, 2:26*pm, Another John wrote: So anyway lads (and lasses?) --- since the original thread has diverged and meandered in very interesting ways from JimK's original question .... Where does this fit in? [1] http://www.eonenergy.com/At-Home/Pro...-own-energy/So... xchange/ According to this, EoN *(who happen to be our gas/elec suppliers, and I'm pretty pleased with them, touch wood) will do me the job for £99. * So does this mean: "Pay us £99, we'll give you some cheap electricity, and we, and our partners, will take most of the proceeds." ??? Or to put it another way, "Lend us your roof, guv!" John [1] *I had googled for this *before* seeing Jim's question, as a result of the happy news that (surprise surprise) fuel bills are going up by *20%* this year *(10% just ain't enough any more). *(put that in your inflation basket and massage it, Mr Cameron) I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. *Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, *it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers & what have you. Why not install storage heaters? MBQ |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 16, 6:31*am, harry wrote:
SNIP You can work it out for yourself *easily. I can email you the charts if you want them. The factors are :- Space available. (hence size of array.) Orientation.(ideal is South) Pitch of roof (ideal is 35deg) Any shadows.. * *(Chimneys. trees other buildings etc) The charge bands. *(4Kwp for most people, 4 - 10Kwp is the next) There is a number for your area (830 for me in the W Midlands) This is the Kwh/year generated per Kw of installed array. It's smaller for the Jocks & Taffs, more for Kentish man for example. The chart is for % deducted for deviations from the ideal orientation and roof pitch. I have an ideal site so I should get 3.88x830=3220Kwh per year. (No deductions) *3.88Kwp is the size of my array. This equals about £1500.. The installer has nothing to do with the 830 number it is a met office deduction. Obviously though the weather varies from year to year, it is an average. . So, no rocket science.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - This spring has perhaps been sunnier than the long term average but that makes the income for my first 6 month period better and claws a bigger than anticipated chunk from the capital outlay. Add to that the benefit of the FIT being increased from 41.3 to 43.3 pence per unit on April 1st and the publicised increase the energy companies are going to hit everyone with in the near future and all I can say is I am glad I took the step when I did! |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
"Man at B&Q" wrote in message ... On Jun 15, 7:27 pm, harry wrote: On Jun 15, 2:26 pm, Another John wrote: snip I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers & what have you. *Why not install storage heaters? *MBQ Probably only get enough charge into them to supply heat through the night during mid-summer. You certainly couldn't rely on them to heat the house in mid-winter. -- No plan survives contact with the enemy. [Not even bunny] Helmuth von Moltke the Elder (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
David WE Roberts wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in message ... On Jun 15, 7:27 pm, harry wrote: On Jun 15, 2:26 pm, Another John wrote: snip I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers & what have you. *Why not install storage heaters? *MBQ Probably only get enough charge into them to supply heat through the night during mid-summer. You certainly couldn't rely on them to heat the house in mid-winter. You could if you built a seriously big one. However on cold days I need about 10KW continuous to keep the house warm that means 30KW to recharge in the wee small 8 hours of cheap rate plus 10KW to keep the house warm.. so I.d be pulling 40KW at night. Or around 40A. That's on the limit for a domestic supply. I'd need a heatbank about the size of a car..probably multiple immersion heaters in a car sized pond of water, in a concrete shell in several inches of polystyrene, buried in the garden. I did calculate that if that tank were of similar area to the whole house, and about 2-3 meters deep, you could store enough in it to keep the house warm for a month or so. It' almost feasible I reckon. use heatpumps to maintain a huge mass of water or concrete at a steady temp that can be piped around (water) or blown around (concrete) to heat the house.. If I were to do an 'eco house' that's probably where I would go..make a huge massively insulated swimming pool in the basement, and use that to pump heat in and out. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
David WE Roberts wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in message ... On Jun 15, 7:27 pm, harry wrote: On Jun 15, 2:26 pm, Another John wrote: snip I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers & what have you. *Why not install storage heaters? *MBQ Probably only get enough charge into them to supply heat through the night during mid-summer. You certainly couldn't rely on them to heat the house in mid-winter. Plus the fact that you cannot separate the output from the PV system from the grid input so that every time a cloud crosses the sun, the storage heaters will be using grid power. It is quite difficult to automate a system to draw only the power produced by PV and not extra from the grid. If the PV system does not 'see' the grid to get voltage and phase information continuously, the inverter will shut down. Bob |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 16, 11:15*am, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
Why not install storage heaters? Simplest way for a solar-powered storage heater is a trombe wall. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 16, 11:15*am, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Jun 15, 7:27*pm, harry wrote: On Jun 15, 2:26*pm, Another John wrote: So anyway lads (and lasses?) --- since the original thread has diverged and meandered in very interesting ways from JimK's original question .... Where does this fit in? [1] http://www.eonenergy.com/At-Home/Pro...-own-energy/So.... xchange/ According to this, EoN *(who happen to be our gas/elec suppliers, and I'm pretty pleased with them, touch wood) will do me the job for £99. * So does this mean: "Pay us £99, we'll give you some cheap electricity, and we, and our partners, will take most of the proceeds." ??? Or to put it another way, "Lend us your roof, guv!" John [1] *I had googled for this *before* seeing Jim's question, as a result of the happy news that (surprise surprise) fuel bills are going up by *20%* this year *(10% just ain't enough any more). *(put that in your inflation basket and massage it, Mr Cameron) I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. *Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, *it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers & what have you. Why not install storage heaters? MBQ- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I have thought of that. Charge them up by day off the panel. Problem is, in Winter you don't get much power. Heat pump is the way to go maybe. I would need a very small one. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 16, 11:18*am, cynic wrote:
On Jun 16, 6:31*am, harry wrote: SNIP You can work it out for yourself *easily. I can email you the charts if you want them. The factors are :- Space available. (hence size of array.) Orientation.(ideal is South) Pitch of roof (ideal is 35deg) Any shadows.. * *(Chimneys. trees other buildings etc) The charge bands. *(4Kwp for most people, 4 - 10Kwp is the next) There is a number for your area (830 for me in the W Midlands) This is the Kwh/year generated per Kw of installed array. It's smaller for the Jocks & Taffs, more for Kentish man for example. The chart is for % deducted for deviations from the ideal orientation and roof pitch. I have an ideal site so I should get 3.88x830=3220Kwh per year. (No deductions) *3.88Kwp is the size of my array. This equals about £1500. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 16, 2:34*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: David WE Roberts wrote: "Man at B&Q" wrote in message .... On Jun 15, 7:27 pm, harry wrote: On Jun 15, 2:26 pm, Another John wrote: snip I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers & what have you. *Why not install storage heaters? *MBQ Probably only get enough charge into them to supply heat through the night during mid-summer. You certainly couldn't rely on them to heat the house in mid-winter. You could if you built a seriously big one. However on cold days I need about 10KW continuous to keep the house warm that means 30KW to recharge in the wee small 8 hours of cheap rate plus 10KW to keep the house warm.. so I.d be pulling 40KW at night. Or around 40A. *That's on the limit for a domestic supply. I'd need a heatbank about the size of a car..probably multiple immersion heaters in a car sized pond of water, in a concrete shell in several inches of polystyrene, buried in the garden. I did calculate that if that tank were of similar area to the whole house, and about 2-3 meters deep, you could store enough in it to keep the house warm for a month or so. It' almost *feasible I reckon. use heatpumps to maintain a huge mass of water or concrete at a steady temp that can be piped around (water) or blown around (concrete) to heat the house.. If I were to do an 'eco house' that's probably where I would go..make a huge massively insulated swimming pool in the basement, and use that to pump heat in and out.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You need to get the house properly insulated. Those are ridiculous figures unless you live in a palace. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 16, 2:41*pm, Bob Minchin
wrote: David WE Roberts wrote: "Man at B&Q" wrote in message .... On Jun 15, 7:27 pm, harry wrote: On Jun 15, 2:26 pm, Another John wrote: snip I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers & what have you. *Why not install storage heaters? *MBQ Probably only get enough charge into them to supply heat through the night during mid-summer. You certainly couldn't rely on them to heat the house in mid-winter. Plus the fact that you cannot separate the output from the PV system from the grid input so that every time a cloud crosses the sun, the storage heaters will be using grid power. It is quite difficult to automate a system to draw only the power produced by PV and not extra from the grid. If the PV system does not 'see' the grid to get voltage and phase information continuously, the inverter will shut down. Bob- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I would have though a computer man like you could find a solution to that? Measure the Kw output fromt he array? |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 16, 2:49*pm, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Jun 16, 11:15*am, "Man at B&Q" wrote: Why not install storage heaters? Simplest way for a solar-powered storage heater is a trombe wall. True. But hard to stop the heat escape by night. I have seen various tricks but none entirely satisfactory. Giant sliding insulated doors. Polystyrene beads blown in/out. As TurNiP says, you really have to take the heat away and store it. I did contemplate using septic tanks cast into concrete under the house as hot water stores. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
harry wrote:
On Jun 16, 2:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: David WE Roberts wrote: "Man at B&Q" wrote in message ... On Jun 15, 7:27 pm, harry wrote: On Jun 15, 2:26 pm, Another John wrote: snip I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers & what have you. *Why not install storage heaters? *MBQ Probably only get enough charge into them to supply heat through the night during mid-summer. You certainly couldn't rely on them to heat the house in mid-winter. You could if you built a seriously big one. However on cold days I need about 10KW continuous to keep the house warm that means 30KW to recharge in the wee small 8 hours of cheap rate plus 10KW to keep the house warm.. so I.d be pulling 40KW at night. Or around 40A. That's on the limit for a domestic supply. I'd need a heatbank about the size of a car..probably multiple immersion heaters in a car sized pond of water, in a concrete shell in several inches of polystyrene, buried in the garden. I did calculate that if that tank were of similar area to the whole house, and about 2-3 meters deep, you could store enough in it to keep the house warm for a month or so. It' almost feasible I reckon. use heatpumps to maintain a huge mass of water or concrete at a steady temp that can be piped around (water) or blown around (concrete) to heat the house.. If I were to do an 'eco house' that's probably where I would go..make a huge massively insulated swimming pool in the basement, and use that to pump heat in and out.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You need to get the house properly insulated. Those are ridiculous figures unless you live in a palace. The house is fully insulated to modern standards harry. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
harry wrote:
On Jun 16, 2:41 pm, Bob Minchin wrote: David WE Roberts wrote: "Man at wrote in message ... On Jun 15, 7:27 pm, wrote: On Jun 15, 2:26 pm, Another wrote: snip I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers& what have you. *Why not install storage heaters? *MBQ Probably only get enough charge into them to supply heat through the night during mid-summer. You certainly couldn't rely on them to heat the house in mid-winter. Plus the fact that you cannot separate the output from the PV system from the grid input so that every time a cloud crosses the sun, the storage heaters will be using grid power. It is quite difficult to automate a system to draw only the power produced by PV and not extra from the grid. If the PV system does not 'see' the grid to get voltage and phase information continuously, the inverter will shut down. Bob- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I would have though a computer man like you could find a solution to that? Measure the Kw output fromt he array? Measuring the power is easy but arranging a load that can be controlled to exactly match that power is the difficult bit. Heating water is one possible solution but that is far more efficiently done with a solar water heater anyway. Bob |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
Jim K wrote:
On Jun 16, 4:04 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: harry wrote: On Jun 16, 2:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: David WE Roberts wrote: "Man at B&Q" wrote in message ... On Jun 15, 7:27 pm, harry wrote: On Jun 15, 2:26 pm, Another John wrote: snip I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers & what have you. *Why not install storage heaters? *MBQ Probably only get enough charge into them to supply heat through the night during mid-summer. You certainly couldn't rely on them to heat the house in mid-winter. You could if you built a seriously big one. However on cold days I need about 10KW continuous to keep the house warm that means 30KW to recharge in the wee small 8 hours of cheap rate plus 10KW to keep the house warm.. so I.d be pulling 40KW at night. Or around 40A. That's on the limit for a domestic supply. I'd need a heatbank about the size of a car..probably multiple immersion heaters in a car sized pond of water, in a concrete shell in several inches of polystyrene, buried in the garden. I did calculate that if that tank were of similar area to the whole house, and about 2-3 meters deep, you could store enough in it to keep the house warm for a month or so. It' almost feasible I reckon. use heatpumps to maintain a huge mass of water or concrete at a steady temp that can be piped around (water) or blown around (concrete) to heat the house.. If I were to do an 'eco house' that's probably where I would go..make a huge massively insulated swimming pool in the basement, and use that to pump heat in and out.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You need to get the house properly insulated. Those are ridiculous figures unless you live in a palace. The house is fully insulated to modern standards harry. sure you were whinging/bragging about how much fuel you had to burn in your numerous fireplaces to keep it all tolerable......;) Jim K That's because it's a big house. and diesel to heat all of it costs more than logs to heat some of it. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 16, 9:19 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Jim K wrote: On Jun 16, 4:04 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: harry wrote: On Jun 16, 2:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: David WE Roberts wrote: "Man at B&Q" wrote in message ... On Jun 15, 7:27 pm, harry wrote: On Jun 15, 2:26 pm, Another John wrote: snip I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers & what have you. *Why not install storage heaters? *MBQ Probably only get enough charge into them to supply heat through the night during mid-summer. You certainly couldn't rely on them to heat the house in mid-winter. You could if you built a seriously big one. However on cold days I need about 10KW continuous to keep the house warm that means 30KW to recharge in the wee small 8 hours of cheap rate plus 10KW to keep the house warm.. so I.d be pulling 40KW at night. Or around 40A. That's on the limit for a domestic supply. I'd need a heatbank about the size of a car..probably multiple immersion heaters in a car sized pond of water, in a concrete shell in several inches of polystyrene, buried in the garden. I did calculate that if that tank were of similar area to the whole house, and about 2-3 meters deep, you could store enough in it to keep the house warm for a month or so. It' almost feasible I reckon. use heatpumps to maintain a huge mass of water or concrete at a steady temp that can be piped around (water) or blown around (concrete) to heat the house.. If I were to do an 'eco house' that's probably where I would go..make a huge massively insulated swimming pool in the basement, and use that to pump heat in and out.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You need to get the house properly insulated. Those are ridiculous figures unless you live in a palace. The house is fully insulated to modern standards harry. sure you were whinging/bragging about how much fuel you had to burn in your numerous fireplaces to keep it all tolerable......;) Jim K That's because it's a big house. and diesel to heat all of it costs more than logs to heat some of it. course it is. Jim K |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
Jim K wrote:
course it is. yes, it is. with an acre and a half of land. Jim K |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 16, 9:55 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Jim K wrote: course it is. yes, it is. with an acre and a half of land. Jim K cough... ITYM "garden" ...;) Jim K |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
Jim K wrote:
On Jun 16, 9:55 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Jim K wrote: course it is. yes, it is. with an acre and a half of land. Jim K cough... ITYM "garden" ...;) no. I mean land. keeping it all 'garden like' is beyond me. Jim K |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 16, 9:59 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Jim K wrote: On Jun 16, 9:55 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Jim K wrote: course it is. yes, it is. with an acre and a half of land. Jim K cough... ITYM "garden" ...;) no. I mean land. keeping it all 'garden like' is beyond me. Jim K all that hoovering and keeping up with the Jones' I expect... Jim K |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
Jim K wrote:
On Jun 16, 9:59 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Jim K wrote: On Jun 16, 9:55 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Jim K wrote: course it is. yes, it is. with an acre and a half of land. Jim K cough... ITYM "garden" ...;) no. I mean land. keeping it all 'garden like' is beyond me. Jim K all that hoovering and keeping up with the Jones' I expect... ...hardly...no neighbours at all. And none I would want to keep up with. Jim K |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 16, 10:18 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Jim K wrote: On Jun 16, 9:59 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Jim K wrote: On Jun 16, 9:55 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Jim K wrote: course it is. yes, it is. with an acre and a half of land. Jim K cough... ITYM "garden" ...;) no. I mean land. keeping it all 'garden like' is beyond me. Jim K all that hoovering and keeping up with the Jones' I expect... ..hardly...no neighbours at all. And none I would want to keep up with. PSST:- er hang on a mo - shurely "no neighbours" is "no neighbours"? I know it's only anony-usenet but don't overcook it - remember ;;)? Jim K |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 16, 9:55*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Jim K wrote: course it is. yes, it is. with an acre and a half of land. Jim K- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I have an acre and a half. I have planted firewood trees. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
harry wrote:
On Jun 16, 9:55 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Jim K wrote: course it is. yes, it is. with an acre and a half of land. Jim K- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I have an acre and a half. I have planted firewood trees. Ah yes, I remember those, the sight of nets of logs hanging from branches in the autumn is one to quicken the heart. Of course the twenty five years needed to come to maturity is a bind. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On Jun 17, 1:39*pm, Steve Firth wrote:
harry wrote: On Jun 16, 9:55 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Jim K wrote: course it is. yes, it is. with an acre and a half of land. Jim K- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I have an acre and a half. I have planted firewood trees. Ah yes, I remember those, the sight of nets of logs hanging from branches in the autumn is one to quicken the heart. Of course the twenty five years needed to come to maturity is a bind.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - No, five years is enough for the right variety. Cut and come again! |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On 16/06/2011 7:03 PM, Bob Minchin wrote:
harry wrote: On Jun 16, 2:41 pm, Bob Minchin wrote: David WE Roberts wrote: "Man at wrote in message ... On Jun 15, 7:27 pm, wrote: On Jun 15, 2:26 pm, Another wrote: snip I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers& what have you. *Why not install storage heaters? *MBQ Probably only get enough charge into them to supply heat through the night during mid-summer. You certainly couldn't rely on them to heat the house in mid-winter. Plus the fact that you cannot separate the output from the PV system from the grid input so that every time a cloud crosses the sun, the storage heaters will be using grid power. It is quite difficult to automate a system to draw only the power produced by PV and not extra from the grid. If the PV system does not 'see' the grid to get voltage and phase information continuously, the inverter will shut down. Bob- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I would have though a computer man like you could find a solution to that? Measure the Kw output fromt he array? Measuring the power is easy but arranging a load that can be controlled to exactly match that power is the difficult bit. Heating water is one possible solution but that is far more efficiently done with a solar water heater anyway. Bob That's what I've done, inspired by this post: http://tinyurl.com/6dwps8e It's not exact but... In the last week I generated 94.5 kWh I dumped 31.4 kWh to an immersion heater in my heatbank I exported 17.0 units The rest was used in the house. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
"Vortex10" wrote in message ... On 16/06/2011 7:03 PM, Bob Minchin wrote: harry wrote: On Jun 16, 2:41 pm, Bob Minchin wrote: David WE Roberts wrote: "Man at wrote in message ... On Jun 15, 7:27 pm, wrote: On Jun 15, 2:26 pm, Another wrote: snip I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers& what have you. *Why not install storage heaters? *MBQ Probably only get enough charge into them to supply heat through the night during mid-summer. You certainly couldn't rely on them to heat the house in mid-winter. Plus the fact that you cannot separate the output from the PV system from the grid input so that every time a cloud crosses the sun, the storage heaters will be using grid power. It is quite difficult to automate a system to draw only the power produced by PV and not extra from the grid. If the PV system does not 'see' the grid to get voltage and phase information continuously, the inverter will shut down. Bob- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I would have though a computer man like you could find a solution to that? Measure the Kw output fromt he array? Measuring the power is easy but arranging a load that can be controlled to exactly match that power is the difficult bit. Heating water is one possible solution but that is far more efficiently done with a solar water heater anyway. Bob That's what I've done, inspired by this post: http://tinyurl.com/6dwps8e It's not exact but... In the last week I generated 94.5 kWh I dumped 31.4 kWh to an immersion heater in my heatbank I exported 17.0 units The rest was used in the house. Interesting. If your export to the grid is estimated and not directly measured, does this mean that you could dump virtually all the spare generated electrcity into heat stores and still get paid for 50% of generated output on the assumption that it is going to the grid? Playing the system, obviously, but makes the massive giveaway even more attractive. Cheers Dave R -- No plan survives contact with the enemy. [Not even bunny] Helmuth von Moltke the Elder (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
David WE Roberts wrote:
If your export to the grid is estimated and not directly measured, does this mean that you could dump virtually all the spare generated electrcity into heat stores and still get paid for 50% of generated output on the assumption that it is going to the grid? Playing the system, obviously, but makes the massive giveaway even more attractive. Yes, until the smart meter rollout reaches you, this is true. Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh. |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
Chris J Dixon wrote:
David WE Roberts wrote: does this mean that you could dump virtually all the spare generated electrcity into heat stores and still get paid for 50% of generated output on the assumption that it is going to the grid? Yes, until the smart meter rollout reaches you, this is true. I'm having smart meters installed in a couple of weeks time, one of the things they checked was that I *didn't* have any PV or wind generator... |
Solar PV --- so anyway ...
On 18/06/2011 12:14 PM, David WE Roberts wrote:
"Vortex10" wrote in message ... On 16/06/2011 7:03 PM, Bob Minchin wrote: harry wrote: On Jun 16, 2:41 pm, Bob Minchin wrote: David WE Roberts wrote: "Man at wrote in message ... On Jun 15, 7:27 pm, wrote: On Jun 15, 2:26 pm, Another wrote: snip I have halved our electricty bill, but we are retired and here at midday. I have trained to wife up. She looks at the inverter display (Kw) before she switches on the cooker/oven /washing machine etc. Does the Hoovering too when the sun shines. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to take advantage of it except with timers& what have you. *Why not install storage heaters? *MBQ Probably only get enough charge into them to supply heat through the night during mid-summer. You certainly couldn't rely on them to heat the house in mid-winter. Plus the fact that you cannot separate the output from the PV system from the grid input so that every time a cloud crosses the sun, the storage heaters will be using grid power. It is quite difficult to automate a system to draw only the power produced by PV and not extra from the grid. If the PV system does not 'see' the grid to get voltage and phase information continuously, the inverter will shut down. Bob- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I would have though a computer man like you could find a solution to that? Measure the Kw output fromt he array? Measuring the power is easy but arranging a load that can be controlled to exactly match that power is the difficult bit. Heating water is one possible solution but that is far more efficiently done with a solar water heater anyway. Bob That's what I've done, inspired by this post: http://tinyurl.com/6dwps8e It's not exact but... In the last week I generated 94.5 kWh I dumped 31.4 kWh to an immersion heater in my heatbank I exported 17.0 units The rest was used in the house. Interesting. If your export to the grid is estimated and not directly measured, does this mean that you could dump virtually all the spare generated electrcity into heat stores and still get paid for 50% of generated output on the assumption that it is going to the grid? Playing the system, obviously, but makes the massive giveaway even more attractive. Cheers Dave R Originally after installation of a 2kWp system I had a good ol' fashioned meter that ran backwards, and I was (naturally) not bothered. Last summer I increased by another 2kWp and somebody cottoned on because I was told by e.on I had to have a new meter. The new meter is digital and has a separate count of import versus export. e.on FiT department however do not read this meter. They still "deem" that I export 50% of what is generated and give me 3.1p (or whatever it is) per unit. About the same cost as gas per kWh. Irritating because in reality with a 4kWp system the export in my home would be about 75%, so I became ****ed off. When I found the Navitron forums thread (http://tinyurl.com/6dwps8e referred above) I decided to acquire the relevant bits and "roll my own" leccy energy dump. (I have a thermal store with an unused backup immersion heater anyway) In my case I use 2 current transformers: One on the solar spur and one on "all the rest". I use an LT1013 opamp (this has a 5V supply capability and therefore can be powered by the EVR load controller autonomously) to create a voltage proportional to the differential between generation and load. This is set up to dump the surplus energy to the 3kW immersion heater. This works nicely. On a sunny day my boiler does not ignite at all....and furthermore the energy is free. D |
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