OK, I put loft-style glass fibre insulation compressed to half its
natural thickness in my new stud partitions (they are near doorways
anyway, acoustic wool not required for building regs, but stops the
hollow sound.
However, I want to put in some proper acoustic stuff inside the boxing
around the PVC soil pipe to minimise the flushing sounds. It seems the
decent stuff is at least 45kg/m^3 and best stuff up to 60kg/m^3.
Probably will be delivered due to the weight.
Where is the best place to get this stuff (I am in the Midlands) ?
Simon.

In message
,
sm_jamieson writes
OK, I put loft-style glass fibre insulation compressed to half its
natural thickness in my new stud partitions (they are near doorways
anyway, acoustic wool not required for building regs, but stops the
hollow sound.
However, I want to put in some proper acoustic stuff inside the boxing
around the PVC soil pipe to minimise the flushing sounds. It seems the
decent stuff is at least 45kg/m^3 and best stuff up to 60kg/m^3.
Probably will be delivered due to the weight.
Where is the best place to get this stuff (I am in the Midlands) ?

Is expanding foam not suitable?

regards

--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message
,
sm_jamieson writes
OK, I put loft-style glass fibre insulation compressed to half its
natural thickness in my new stud partitions (they are near doorways
anyway, acoustic wool not required for building regs, but stops the
hollow sound.
However, I want to put in some proper acoustic stuff inside the boxing
around the PVC soil pipe to minimise the flushing sounds. It seems the
decent stuff is at least 45kg/m^3 and best stuff up to 60kg/m^3.
Probably will be delivered due to the weight.
Where is the best place to get this stuff (I am in the Midlands) ?

Is expanding foam not suitable?


No. acoustic deadening needs MASS.

mass and compliance are what you want. Sand is of course excellent.



regards

On May 18, 7:34*pm, sm_jamieson wrote:
OK, I put loft-style glass fibre insulation compressed to half its
natural thickness in my new stud partitions (they are near doorways
anyway, acoustic wool not required for building regs, but stops the
hollow sound.
However, I want to put in some proper acoustic stuff inside the boxing
around the PVC soil pipe to minimise the flushing sounds. It seems the
decent stuff is at least 45kg/m^3 and best stuff up to 60kg/m^3.
Probably will be delivered due to the weight.
Where is the best place to get this stuff (I am in the Midlands) ?
Simon.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...oise_reduction


NT

On May 18, 7:34*pm, sm_jamieson wrote:
OK, I put loft-style glass fibre insulation compressed to half its
natural thickness in my new stud partitions (they are near doorways
anyway, acoustic wool not required for building regs, but stops the
hollow sound.
However, I want to put in some proper acoustic stuff inside the boxing
around the PVC soil pipe to minimise the flushing sounds. It seems the
decent stuff is at least 45kg/m^3 and best stuff up to 60kg/m^3.
Probably will be delivered due to the weight.
Where is the best place to get this stuff (I am in the Midlands) ?
Simon.

IMHO wool is of very little benefit. The main thing is to use
heavyweight material like 20 mm of MDF or chipboard to box it in all
the way round, made airtight at the joints, and also insulate any
clamps on the pipe itself to stop acoustic transmission to the
exterior.

rusty

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message
,
sm_jamieson writes
OK, I put loft-style glass fibre insulation compressed to half its
natural thickness in my new stud partitions (they are near doorways
anyway, acoustic wool not required for building regs, but stops the
hollow sound.
However, I want to put in some proper acoustic stuff inside the boxing
around the PVC soil pipe to minimise the flushing sounds. It seems the
decent stuff is at least 45kg/m^3 and best stuff up to 60kg/m^3.
Probably will be delivered due to the weight.
Where is the best place to get this stuff (I am in the Midlands) ?
Is expanding foam not suitable?


No. acoustic deadening needs MASS.

Undoubtedly. However mechanical connection through brackets or direct
contact should also be avoided.

mass and compliance are what you want. Sand is of course excellent.

My very limited experience of doing this concerned an existing boxed
soil pipe which was conducting *pongs* from some discharge point to a
flat conversion. The cure was to inject some fire resistant foam which
also happened to reduce noise.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

On May 18, 7:34*pm, sm_jamieson wrote:

However, I want to put in some proper acoustic stuff inside the boxing
around the PVC soil pipe to minimise the flushing sounds.

You need some mass in there. Layers of high-mass material, flexibly
mounted, with layers of wool between them. Chipboard is one of the
cheapest, Cement board is best, MDF isn't bad. If the location fits,
hanging boards on wire from above is a good way to install it.

In article
,
Andy Dingley wrote:
On May 18, 7:34 pm, sm_jamieson wrote:

However, I want to put in some proper acoustic stuff inside the boxing
around the PVC soil pipe to minimise the flushing sounds.

You need some mass in there. Layers of high-mass material, flexibly
mounted, with layers of wool between them. Chipboard is one of the
cheapest, Cement board is best, MDF isn't bad. If the location fits,
hanging boards on wire from above is a good way to install it.

Plasterboard is pretty good as regards density/cost.

--
*Many people quit looking for work when they find a job *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message
,
sm_jamieson writes
OK, I put loft-style glass fibre insulation compressed to half its
natural thickness in my new stud partitions (they are near doorways
anyway, acoustic wool not required for building regs, but stops the
hollow sound.
However, I want to put in some proper acoustic stuff inside the boxing
around the PVC soil pipe to minimise the flushing sounds. It seems the
decent stuff is at least 45kg/m^3 and best stuff up to 60kg/m^3.
Probably will be delivered due to the weight.
Where is the best place to get this stuff (I am in the Midlands) ?

Is expanding foam not suitable?


No. acoustic deadening needs MASS.

mass and compliance are what you want. Sand is of course excellent.




Yes and no .. you some times need something light weight and absorbent
to improve the room acoustics which can improve the sound isolation such
as Rockwool or Earthwool..

Just been putting a load in a studio the other day....


regards


--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
Yes and no .. you some times need something light weight and absorbent
to improve the room acoustics which can improve the sound isolation such
as Rockwool or Earthwool..

That's modifying the acoustic. A barrier to prevent sound transmission
generally needs mass. Of course if you're using a double skinned one, some
form of treatment between the two may reduce resonances.

--
*Cleaned by Stevie Wonder, checked by David Blunkett*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/05/2011 11:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Andy wrote:
On May 18, 7:34 pm, wrote:

However, I want to put in some proper acoustic stuff inside the boxing
around the PVC soil pipe to minimise the flushing sounds.

You need some mass in there. Layers of high-mass material, flexibly
mounted, with layers of wool between them. Chipboard is one of the
cheapest, Cement board is best, MDF isn't bad. If the location fits,
hanging boards on wire from above is a good way to install it.

Plasterboard is pretty good as regards density/cost.

If you have access to the soil pipe then a purpose made acoustic
pipe/duct insulation works exceedingly well - when I used it a few years
ago I used a sheet material which I cut in strips to wrap round the soil
pipe, fix with cable ties and duct tape.
However I think you can get it preformed to standard sizes now.
Not a cheap option, but doesnt take much space up and very effective.

On 19/05/2011 08:46, Tim Lamb wrote:
My very limited experience of doing this concerned an existing boxed
soil pipe which was conducting *pongs* from some discharge point to a
flat conversion.

Pongs as in pings, not smells I take it?

Andy

In message , Andy Champ
writes
On 19/05/2011 08:46, Tim Lamb wrote:
My very limited experience of doing this concerned an existing boxed
soil pipe which was conducting *pongs* from some discharge point to a
flat conversion.

Pongs as in pings, not smells I take it?

Long sold on now so probably no comeback. PONGS!

The ground rent holder occupied the basement and ground floor with two
flats above on long leases.

All sorts of structural problems as supporting stud walls had been
removed to create *open plan areas*. The flat kitchen waste went through
and round two bedrooms before reaching the soil vent pipe. Discharging
hot washing up water resulted in a very drainsy effluvia in a bedroom.
Re-fixing the waste pipe (avoiding sagging bits), fitting an air
admittance valve did not solve the problem. Appeals to have the drains
inspected fell on deaf ears so I emptied a can of fire resistant
expanding foam into the boxing. Problem solved. A side benefit was
quietening bog flushing from the flat above.

regards
--
Tim Lamb

On May 19, 8:05*pm, robert wrote:
On 19/05/2011 11:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article
,
* * Andy *wrote:
On May 18, 7:34 pm, *wrote:

However, I want to put in some proper acoustic stuff inside the boxing
around the PVC soil pipe to minimise the flushing sounds.

You need some mass in there. Layers of high-mass material, flexibly
mounted, with layers of wool between them. *Chipboard is one of the
cheapest, Cement board is best, MDF isn't bad. If the location fits,
hanging boards on wire from above is a good way to install it.

Plasterboard is pretty good as regards density/cost.

If you have access to the soil pipe then a purpose made acoustic
pipe/duct insulation works exceedingly well - when I used it a few years
ago I used a sheet material which I cut in strips to wrap round the soil
pipe, fix with cable ties and duct tape.
However I think you can get it preformed to standard sizes now.
Not a cheap option, but doesnt take much space up and very effective.

Any details about this product and suppliers ?
Simon.

On May 18, 9:30*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

No. acoustic deadening needs MASS.

mass and compliance are what you want. Sand is of course excellent.

In this context, what does compliance mean?

David Paste wrote:
On May 18, 9:30 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

No. acoustic deadening needs MASS.

mass and compliance are what you want. Sand is of course excellent.

In this context, what does compliance mean?

The opposite of rigidity.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
Yes and no .. you some times need something light weight and absorbent
to improve the room acoustics which can improve the sound isolation such
as Rockwool or Earthwool..

That's modifying the acoustic. A barrier to prevent sound transmission
generally needs mass. Of course if you're using a double skinned one, some
form of treatment between the two may reduce resonances.


Yes quite but was just to point out theres differing aspects to noise
reduction;!...
--
Tony Sayer

On May 20, 7:31*am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The opposite of rigidity.

Thanks. Would large rubber blocks be any good for sound deadening then?

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
That's modifying the acoustic. A barrier to prevent sound transmission
generally needs mass. Of course if you're using a double skinned one,
some form of treatment between the two may reduce resonances.


Yes quite but was just to point out theres differing aspects to noise
reduction;!...

Yes - but most want wideband noise reduction. A mineral wool might help at
highish frequencies, but not all. Adding mass should be good for
everything.

--
*People want trepanners like they want a hole in the head*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
That's modifying the acoustic. A barrier to prevent sound transmission
generally needs mass. Of course if you're using a double skinned one,
some form of treatment between the two may reduce resonances.


Yes quite but was just to point out theres differing aspects to noise
reduction;!...

Yes - but most want wideband noise reduction. A mineral wool might help at
highish frequencies, but not all. Adding mass should be good for
everything.

That's true.

1. Remove all air paths. Tht cuts down air transmission
2. use materials whose structure causes multiple reflections to bounce
sound around a LOT and
3. whose mass and compliance can absorb it as it does. Hard britlle
'ringy' materials are the worst. If someone made lead or depleted
uranium sponge as a cellular foam, that would probably be best.Sand is good.
4. Watch out for the structure itself transmitting noise. The equivalent
of a 'cold bridge'.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
That's modifying the acoustic. A barrier to prevent sound transmission
generally needs mass. Of course if you're using a double skinned one,
some form of treatment between the two may reduce resonances.


Yes quite but was just to point out theres differing aspects to noise
reduction;!...

Yes - but most want wideband noise reduction. A mineral wool might help at
highish frequencies, but not all. Adding mass should be good for
everything.


Dunno .. Its all part of the same problem. We have just lined a radio
studio from the hard walled construction the results now internal from
outside sources are a lot better as if you think about it the sound has
to travel thru the absorber and then reflects off the hard dense surface
then travels back thru the absorbent material again etc. Reducing it
every step of the way.
--
Tony Sayer