I have a feeling this has been discussed before but I wasn't paying
attention as I didn't have an application for this technology. Now I have
and could do with a quick heads-up: what to look for in ethernet-over-
mains (aka powerline) adapters, makes & models to go for and to avoid,
ditto suppliers ...

(Application is a point-to-point link to get t'internets into a caravan
parked in the driveway with a mains hookup, which I sometimes use as a
home office away from the idiot box in the living room.)


--
John Stumbles

The astronomer married a star

On May 13, 11:58*pm, John Stumbles wrote:
I have a feeling this has been discussed before but I wasn't paying
attention as I didn't have an application for this technology. Now I have
and could do with a quick heads-up: what to look for in ethernet-over-
mains (aka powerline) adapters, makes & models to go for and to avoid,
ditto suppliers ...

(Application is a point-to-point link to get t'internets into a caravan
parked in the driveway with a mains hookup, which I sometimes use as a
home office away from the idiot box in the living room.)

--
John Stumbles

The astronomer married a star

got 4 of these (2 packs)

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/262753

(they've gone up £10 since last month)

and they work great. Getting HD TV to the media player, and sprog's
internet is as fast as anything. Just make sure you plug them straight
into the wall.

On Fri, 13 May 2011 16:37:17 -0700 (PDT), Jethro
wrote:

On May 13, 11:58*pm, John Stumbles wrote:
I have a feeling this has been discussed before but I wasn't paying
attention as I didn't have an application for this technology. Now I have
and could do with a quick heads-up: what to look for in ethernet-over-
mains (aka powerline) adapters, makes & models to go for and to avoid,
ditto suppliers ...

(Application is a point-to-point link to get t'internets into a caravan
parked in the driveway with a mains hookup, which I sometimes use as a
home office away from the idiot box in the living room.)

--
John Stumbles

The astronomer married a star

got 4 of these (2 packs)

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/262753

(they've gone up £10 since last month)

and they work great. Getting HD TV to the media player, and sprog's
internet is as fast as anything. Just make sure you plug them straight
into the wall.

How well do they perform regarding interference to radio reception in
the HF (short wave) spectrum? Serious question.

--
Frank Erskine

In message
,
Jethro writes

and they work great. Getting HD TV to the media player, and sprog's
internet is as fast as anything. Just make sure you plug them straight
into the wall.

A mains socket may work better?

--
Bill

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 13 May 2011 16:37:17 -0700 (PDT), Jethro
wrote:

On May 13, 11:58 pm, John Stumbles wrote:
I have a feeling this has been discussed before but I wasn't paying
attention as I didn't have an application for this technology. Now I have
and could do with a quick heads-up: what to look for in ethernet-over-
mains (aka powerline) adapters, makes & models to go for and to avoid,
ditto suppliers ...

(Application is a point-to-point link to get t'internets into a caravan
parked in the driveway with a mains hookup, which I sometimes use as a
home office away from the idiot box in the living room.)

--
John Stumbles

The astronomer married a star
got 4 of these (2 packs)

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/262753

(they've gone up £10 since last month)

and they work great. Getting HD TV to the media player, and sprog's
internet is as fast as anything. Just make sure you plug them straight
into the wall.

How well do they perform regarding interference to radio reception in
the HF (short wave) spectrum? Serious question.


T get the sorts of speed they do, they are probably well into UHF at
least I would say.

If not gigahertz.

I don't think they are broadband. Mote like wifi 2.4Ghz or summat.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
I have a feeling this has been discussed before but I wasn't paying
attention as I didn't have an application for this technology. Now I have
and could do with a quick heads-up: what to look for in ethernet-over-
mains (aka powerline) adapters, makes & models to go for and to avoid,
ditto suppliers ...

(Application is a point-to-point link to get t'internets into a caravan
parked in the driveway with a mains hookup, which I sometimes use as a
home office away from the idiot box in the living room.)


--
John Stumbles

The astronomer married a star

I've got a mixture of Netgear XE104 and Netgear XET1001 units, which I used
for communications between a network camera in a barn, and a PC in a house
next to the barn, a crows-flight distance of about 40 metres. The raw-crawl
path that the cables take could be much longer.

This arrangement worked perfectly for several years, then over the course of
a couple of months became unreliable, then stopped working completely. The
units will no longer sync with each other barn-to-house, although pairs of
them stilll work fine within the barn or within the house. I've tried new
units, but they won't work barn-to-house either. I've checked the condition
of the mains cabling along the route, and haven't found any obvious
deterioration.

For what it's worth, these Netgear units seem to be well made and easy to
use, but run rather warm, consuming about 3 watts continuously, which might
be a consideration in these times of high electricity bills.

Generally, it seems to me that ethernet-over-mains is great when it works,
but perhaps is vulnerable to outside interference of some kind.

On May 13, 11:58*pm, John Stumbles wrote:
I have a feeling this has been discussed before but I wasn't paying
attention as I didn't have an application for this technology. Now I have
and could do with a quick heads-up: what to look for in ethernet-over-
mains (aka powerline) adapters, makes & models to go for and to avoid,
ditto suppliers ...

(Application is a point-to-point link to get t'internets into a caravan
parked in the driveway with a mains hookup, which I sometimes use as a
home office away from the idiot box in the living room.)

--
John Stumbles

The astronomer married a star

I use a Netricity powerline +WiFi router from Maplin over a 2m
extension lead, through the house wiring (different circuit breakers)
and a 20m extension to the garden shed no problems. Setting up the
ISP internet protocols was a pain and needs a bit of Googling for help
due to a very skimpy instruction manual.
It probably wipes out radio reception for miles around.

rusty

On May 14, 6:02*am, "BluntChisel" wrote:
"John Stumbles" wrote in message

...

I have a feeling this has been discussed before but I wasn't paying
attention as I didn't have an application for this technology. Now I have
and could do with a quick heads-up: what to look for in ethernet-over-
mains (aka powerline) adapters, makes & models to go for and to avoid,
ditto suppliers ...

(Application is a point-to-point link to get t'internets into a caravan
parked in the driveway with a mains hookup, which I sometimes use as a
home office away from the idiot box in the living room.)

--
John Stumbles

The astronomer married a star

I've got a mixture of Netgear XE104 and Netgear XET1001 units, which I used
for communications between a network camera in a barn, and a PC in a house
next to the barn, a crows-flight distance of about 40 metres. The raw-crawl
path that the cables take could be much longer.

This arrangement worked perfectly for several years, then over the course of
a couple of months became unreliable, then stopped working completely. The
units will no longer sync with each other barn-to-house, although pairs of
them stilll work fine within the barn or within the house. I've tried new
units, but they won't work barn-to-house either. I've checked the condition
of the mains cabling along the route, and haven't found any obvious
deterioration.

For what it's worth, these Netgear units seem to be well made and easy to
use, but run rather warm, consuming about 3 watts continuously, which might
be a consideration in these times of high electricity bills.

Generally, it seems to me that ethernet-over-mains is great when it works,
but perhaps is vulnerable to outside interference of some kind.

I wasn't able to fully validate it - so perhaps take with a small
pinch of salt - but when I was getting my new RCD based cu installed
we found that they produced a small amount of current leakage that
reduced the headspace for nuisance trips. As you may have guessed,
I'm no sparkie, but say I had a 30mA RCD with a single adaptor plugged
in the tester showed that the RCD tripped 15mA early. We didn't fully
check it and it was a cheapo adaptor so YMMV.

Jon

On 13/05/2011 23:58, John Stumbles wrote:
I have a feeling this has been discussed before but I wasn't paying
attention as I didn't have an application for this technology. Now I have
and could do with a quick heads-up: what to look for in ethernet-over-
mains (aka powerline) adapters, makes& models to go for and to avoid,
ditto suppliers ...

(Application is a point-to-point link to get t'internets into a caravan
parked in the driveway with a mains hookup, which I sometimes use as a
home office away from the idiot box in the living room.)


I have a couple of Solwise connectors but have gone back to wireless
since I need it for other purposes and it is more effective across my house.

Ethernet over mains does not do well at getting through RCDs. Because we
have a split load CU I had one connector on the power ring downstairs
and one on the lighting circuit upstairs so they were both on the same
side of the CU.

Do not use on an extension lead that the PC uses. Plug direct into a
wall socket as far from the PC as possible. ISTR the more we turned on
around the house the slower and less reliable the connection.

If wireless cannot find its way into the caravan I would be inclined to
try and find a way to run a cable.

2 doors away there is a G8 who does quite a bit of experimental design.
Hopefully it didn't interfere with his efforts. I didn't dare ask.

On May 14, 6:55*am, therustyone wrote:
On May 13, 11:58*pm, John Stumbles wrote:

I have a feeling this has been discussed before but I wasn't paying
attention as I didn't have an application for this technology. Now I have
and could do with a quick heads-up: what to look for in ethernet-over-
mains (aka powerline) adapters, makes & models to go for and to avoid,
ditto suppliers ...

(Application is a point-to-point link to get t'internets into a caravan
parked in the driveway with a mains hookup, which I sometimes use as a
home office away from the idiot box in the living room.)

--
John Stumbles

The astronomer married a star

I use a Netricity powerline +WiFi router from Maplin over a 2m
extension lead, through the house wiring (different circuit breakers)

that's exaggerating a bit, the two ring circuits are fused and have a
common RCD, so there's not much RF impedance.

On Sat, 14 May 2011 02:07:33 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

How well do they perform regarding interference to radio reception
in
the HF (short wave) spectrum? Serious question.

Some very well indeed, they are all anyone within a mile or so will
be able to hear on their HF set. B-(

T get the sorts of speed they do, they are probably well into UHF at
least I would say.

If not gigahertz.

I don't think they are broadband. Mote like wifi 2.4Ghz or summat.

AFAICT from a google the basics is OFDM with a carrier spacing of
24.41kHz. So they are broadband (correct useage of the word)

http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl-sar605eh.htm

Gives 4.3Mhz to 20.9Mhz as the band of frequencies in use.

http://www.powerlinenetworking.co.uk...t/view/144/25/

Says 2MHz to 30MHz and 24kHz but WTH pretty much all of the HF
frequency band. Standards compliant devices are supposed to not use
the carriers that land within the amateur radio bands but I bet there
is still considerable hash generated by them which raises the noise
floor.
And what about trying to use the HF bands outside the amateur
allocations?

As the OP is running mains to his caravan why can't he also run a bit
of ethernet, be cheaper, faster, more reliable and won't generate
masses of HF interference.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Sat, 14 May 2011 02:07:33 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

How well do they perform regarding interference to radio reception
in
the HF (short wave) spectrum? Serious question.

Some very well indeed, they are all anyone within a mile or so will
be able to hear on their HF set. B-(

T get the sorts of speed they do, they are probably well into UHF at
least I would say.

If not gigahertz.

I don't think they are broadband. Mote like wifi 2.4Ghz or summat.

AFAICT from a google the basics is OFDM with a carrier spacing of
24.41kHz. So they are broadband (correct useage of the word)

http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl-sar605eh.htm

Gives 4.3Mhz to 20.9Mhz as the band of frequencies in use.

http://www.powerlinenetworking.co.uk...t/view/144/25/

Says 2MHz to 30MHz and 24kHz but WTH pretty much all of the HF
frequency band. Standards compliant devices are supposed to not use
the carriers that land within the amateur radio bands but I bet there
is still considerable hash generated by them which raises the noise
floor.
And what about trying to use the HF bands outside the amateur
allocations?

As the OP is running mains to his caravan why can't he also run a bit
of ethernet, be cheaper, faster, more reliable and won't generate
masses of HF interference.


FWIW....

PLT adapters use a band of frequencies from HF to VHF. These frequencies
are used by many other services.

So the PLT will emit radio waves, despite them supposedly being
contained in the mains wiring, and conversely they receive radio waves
and in doing so the transmitted radio energy from them can and does
cause interference to other radio receivers, and conversely other radio
transmitters cause interference to the PLT!..


Not that different to 2.4 Ghz licence exempt operation, where a given
number of channels are allocated and when channel usage is low this can
and does work reasonably well but when channel usage is high it has
problems!.

If you want to download Netstumbler to your laptop and go for a short
drive and see what the usage of these devices is like!..

Course the final sentence is the best one Run a bit of CAT 5..

Here despite being commercially involved in RF I've wired the place with
a 24 port patch panel and switch and OK .. that was a bit of effort but
it a very good investment the whole works fine 'n dandy.

Yes there is a wi-fi point and that does work quite well but where we're
based there is a surprising amount of 2.4 Ghz about. Netstumbler reports
each house has a device and some even have Two !...

Heres some interesting reading by BBC research outlining the problem and
if anyone knows a thing or two about wireless they have been in it quite
some time;!...

It shows why they interfere with domestic radio and why they sometimes
don't work as well as they might..

Enjoy...


http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/w...les/WHP195.pdf
--
Tony Sayer

On Sat, 14 May 2011 11:25:04 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

As the OP is running mains to his caravan why can't he also run a bit of
ethernet, be cheaper, faster, more reliable and won't generate masses of
HF interference.

Mains comes from garage not house and getting cat 5 from house would be a
bit messy/tricky as it would have to cross walkways. PLT, if it works and
is cheap enough, would be easier.



--
John Stumbles

Many hands make light work. Too many cooks spoil the broth.

On 14 May 2011 12:14:39 GMT, John Stumbles wrote:

Mains comes from garage not house and getting cat 5 from house would be
a bit messy/tricky as it would have to cross walkways.

Can you not get ethernet into the garage and then run the CAT5 the
same route as the mains, maybe even taped to it. One assumes that the
mains doesn't have the same crossing walkways problem.

Even crossing walkways might not be a serious problem bury a bit of
ordinary conduit at the appropiate places, bury a length of flexable
the entire route(*), fly from the house to the 'van.

PLT, if it works and is cheap enough, would be easier.

I think that "if" is quite large. There are enough comments out in
the 'net that indicate that itreally doesn't like extension cables
and/or passing through RCDs etc. At least with CAT5 it will work and
the cable is cheap.

(*) Thread the CAT5 through before you bury it as getting it through
when there are any bends, even very gentle ones due to not laying it
dead straight, will be hard if not impossible.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 14 May 2011 11:51:29 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Heres some interesting reading by BBC research outlining the problem and
if anyone knows a thing or two about wireless they have been in it quite
some time;!...

Very recent (March 2011) document and very interesting. So these
things will now be able to nagger the reception of FM and DAB...

--
Cheers
Dave.

John Stumbles wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2011 11:25:04 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

As the OP is running mains to his caravan why can't he also run a bit of
ethernet, be cheaper, faster, more reliable and won't generate masses of
HF interference.

Mains comes from garage not house and getting cat 5 from house would be a
bit messy/tricky as it would have to cross walkways. PLT, if it works and
is cheap enough, would be easier.



plastic pipe works.
As conduit.

No need to go deep.

unless walkways are concrete it's a piece of relative ****.

On May 14, 1:06*am, Frank Erskine
wrote:
On Fri, 13 May 2011 16:37:17 -0700 (PDT), Jethro



wrote:
On May 13, 11:58*pm, John Stumbles wrote:
I have a feeling this has been discussed before but I wasn't paying
attention as I didn't have an application for this technology. Now I have
and could do with a quick heads-up: what to look for in ethernet-over-
mains (aka powerline) adapters, makes & models to go for and to avoid,
ditto suppliers ...

(Application is a point-to-point link to get t'internets into a caravan
parked in the driveway with a mains hookup, which I sometimes use as a
home office away from the idiot box in the living room.)

--
John Stumbles

The astronomer married a star

got 4 of these (2 packs)

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/262753

(they've gone up £10 since last month)

and they work great. Getting HD TV to the media player, and sprog's
internet is as fast as anything. Just make sure you plug them straight
into the wall.

How well do they perform regarding interference to radio reception in
the HF (short wave) spectrum? Serious question.

--
Frank Erskine

Shrug,

dunno - no one uses any equipment in our house I know of, and I
haven't seen any irate neighbours.

On 14 May,
Frank Erskine wrote:

On Fri, 13 May 2011 16:37:17 -0700 (PDT), Jethro
wrote:

what to look for in ethernet-over- mains (aka powerline) adapters,


got 4 of these (2 packs)

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/262753

(they've gone up £10 since last month)

and they work great. Getting HD TV to the media player, and sprog's
internet is as fast as anything. Just make sure you plug them straight
into the wall.

How well do they perform regarding interference to radio reception in
the HF (short wave) spectrum? Serious question.

Terrible round here with homeplugs!

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

On Sat, 14 May 2011 15:43:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

unless walkways are concrete it's a piece of relative ****.

Walkways are concrete. Both house-garage and house-'van.

I could do it overhead but it would be time-consuming and messy.


--
John Stumbles

87.5% of statistics are made up

John Stumbles wrote:
Walkways are concrete. Both house-garage and house-'van.

I could do it overhead but it would be time-consuming and messy.

Another option if you can get line-of-sight is a focused-beam wifi
installation. One antenna on the house, one on the caravan. Even in a
congested wifi area, the increase in signal power by focusing two antennas
at each other should swamp any interfering signals and increase the
transmission rate. You could run this through windows if you don't want an
external fit. Google 'pringles antenna' for some designs if you don't want
to buy an antenna.

Theo

On Mon, 16 May 2011 19:28:04 +0100, Theo Markettos wrote:

want an external fit. Google 'pringles antenna' for some designs if you

aka 'cantenna' :-)

I recall a wibble somewhere describing 2.4GHz antennae made from Chinese
cookery utensils!

But I want a connection to a machine that doesn't have wifi built-in so
that would mean an access point as well as dicking about with Blue-Peter
stuff.


--
John Stumbles

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me
Than a full-frontal lobotomy

John Stumbles wrote:
aka 'cantenna' :-)

I recall a wibble somewhere describing 2.4GHz antennae made from Chinese
cookery utensils!

You mean a woktenna? :-)
http://www.usbwifi.orconhosting.net.nz/

But I want a connection to a machine that doesn't have wifi built-in so
that would mean an access point as well as dicking about with Blue-Peter
stuff.

You can do the can/woktenna thing with a USB dongle on a cable if you want.
Depends on far the PC is going to be from the dongle. I have a 7m USB
cable run - the max spec is 5m, but I have a '5m extender' cable that's a
long cable with a hub on the end to regenerate the signal, then another
2m cable. I imagine a dongle would be OK, especially if the hub(s) are
powered.

Theo

In article , Theo Markettos
scribeth thus
John Stumbles wrote:
aka 'cantenna' :-)

I recall a wibble somewhere describing 2.4GHz antennae made from Chinese
cookery utensils!

You mean a woktenna? :-)
http://www.usbwifi.orconhosting.net.nz/

But I want a connection to a machine that doesn't have wifi built-in so
that would mean an access point as well as dicking about with Blue-Peter
stuff.

You can do the can/woktenna thing with a USB dongle on a cable if you want.
Depends on far the PC is going to be from the dongle. I have a 7m USB
cable run - the max spec is 5m, but I have a '5m extender' cable that's a
long cable with a hub on the end to regenerate the signal, then another
2m cable. I imagine a dongle would be OK, especially if the hub(s) are
powered.

Theo


Solwise do some 2.4 aerials, have a look under panel antennas.

http://www.solwise.co.uk/wireless-outdoorantenna-24.htm
--
Tony Sayer

Theo Markettos wrote:
John Stumbles wrote:
Walkways are concrete. Both house-garage and house-'van.

I could do it overhead but it would be time-consuming and messy.

Another option if you can get line-of-sight is a focused-beam wifi
installation. One antenna on the house, one on the caravan. Even in a
congested wifi area, the increase in signal power by focusing two antennas
at each other should swamp any interfering signals and increase the
transmission rate. You could run this through windows if you don't want an
external fit. Google 'pringles antenna' for some designs if you don't want
to buy an antenna.

Theo

There's a freeware utility out there that scans all the wifi networks in
your area, and shows clearly which channels are congested. used it and
found that my neighbours both sides where using the same channels as me, so
changed channel and found I got much better range and speed.

On Tue, 17 May 2011 19:52:39 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

GCHQ withdrew their complaint, but there is speculation that that may
have been for political reasons or trying to hide what fequencies they
were interested in.

Or they have "obtained the keys" or cracked the encryption...


--
Cheers
Dave.