On 11/05/2011 22:33, Invisible Man wrote:
On 11/05/2011 19:14, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 11/05/2011 18:22, Nitro® wrote:

"Adrian Brentnall" wrote in message
...
HI All
Sorta DIY - I'm trying to fix it myself g

WinXP Pro SP3 PC, Dell fairly basic desktop (Vostro 200), about 4
years old, fully updated, running Avast antivirus & Spybot.
Every so often, the PC just locks up solid, not responsive to mouse,
Alt-Ctl-Del or anything else...
Only way out is to pull the mains plug (I know it's not a good idea -
but what can you do ?)

Happens most often when running a particular web authoring package
(Netobjects Fusion) - but has also happened (once) with another web
authoring package (WYSIWYG).

Tried blowing the muck out of the PC fans etc. - but doesn't seem
to have made any difference. Lifted & reseated the memory.

I'm a bit at a loss for where to look next?
Any ideas, please ?

Thanks
Adrian


Run ccleaner from piriform http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner
(It's freeware and spyware free)

Clean up your hard disk and check for registry errors.


Thanks - I'll give it a try.... g
Adrian

Take care with CCleaner

Thanks.
It did seem rather keen to erase quite a lot of things like cookies.....
don;t mind it having the temporary internet files, but I'd rather not
have to re-remember passwords and browsing history etc.

In the end I let it look at the registry, and it found some loose ends....

We'll see if it makes any difference

Thanks
Adrian

On 11/05/11 20:27, Tinkerer wrote:
"Adrian wrote in message
...
HI All
Sorta DIY - I'm trying to fix it myselfg

WinXP Pro SP3 PC, Dell fairly basic desktop (Vostro 200), about 4 years
old, fully updated, running Avast antivirus& Spybot.
Every so often, the PC just locks up solid, not responsive to mouse,
Alt-Ctl-Del or anything else...
Only way out is to pull the mains plug (I know it's not a good idea - but
what can you do ?)

Happens most often when running a particular web authoring package
(Netobjects Fusion) - but has also happened (once) with another web
authoring package (WYSIWYG).

Tried blowing the muck out of the PC fans etc. - but doesn't seem
to have made any difference. Lifted& reseated the memory.

I'm a bit at a loss for where to look next?
Any ideas, please ?


I had similar problems with Netobjects Fusion. It was version 10 and the
problem occurred after installing all the updates. Reinstalled Fusion but
ignored the updates and all was well. Might not be your problem, but then
again......
I've just reinstalled winxp.
i bought a new 300GB hard disk,
inserted that,
and put the old one in a USB caddy for a backup,
only installed the programs I need,
(every program i'd installed slowed it down a bit)
it's so much faster now!

[g]

On 11/05/2011 21:18, Robin wrote:
Have you used the Event Viewer to look at the logs? (I don't have
much experience with the black art of interpreting the logs but they
should at least show if it is a consistent source.)

I've just turned Dr Watson on (sounds kinda kinky!)
so we'll see what that shows next time there's a crash

Yerrbut - you can look in the Event Viewer *now*. See
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d....mspx?mfr=true

Then look in the application and system logs in particular for the red
error events and see what their source was.

PS
If you have not looked at the logs before be prepared for an awful lot
of errors and even more warnings. Most are ignorable.

Hi Robin
No red errors - but a scattering of yellow exclamation marks

event ID 51 - An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\D during
a paging operation.

the only red errors are
id 7000 The SupportSoft Sprocket Service (dellsupportcenter) service
failed to start due to the following error:
The system cannot find the file specified.

The system's on its 2nd hard drive - the first one failed after about 6
months....

I'm pretty sure that I have a second new spare hard drive (courtesy of
Dell). I have Acronis, and could easily clone the current system drive -
would that be a plan ?

Thanks
Adrian

Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 11/05/2011 21:18, Robin wrote:
Have you used the Event Viewer to look at the logs? (I don't have
much experience with the black art of interpreting the logs but they
should at least show if it is a consistent source.)

I've just turned Dr Watson on (sounds kinda kinky!)
so we'll see what that shows next time there's a crash

Yerrbut - you can look in the Event Viewer *now*. See
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d....mspx?mfr=true


Then look in the application and system logs in particular for the red
error events and see what their source was.

PS
If you have not looked at the logs before be prepared for an awful lot
of errors and even more warnings. Most are ignorable.

Hi Robin
No red errors - but a scattering of yellow exclamation marks

event ID 51 - An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\D during
a paging operation.

the only red errors are
id 7000 The SupportSoft Sprocket Service (dellsupportcenter) service
failed to start due to the following error:
The system cannot find the file specified.

The system's on its 2nd hard drive - the first one failed after about 6
months....

I'm pretty sure that I have a second new spare hard drive (courtesy of
Dell). I have Acronis, and could easily clone the current system drive -
would that be a plan ?

Thanks
Adrian

expect a typical well used home machines disk to be dead in 4 years on
average

On 12/05/2011 00:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 11/05/2011 21:18, Robin wrote:
Have you used the Event Viewer to look at the logs? (I don't have
much experience with the black art of interpreting the logs but they
should at least show if it is a consistent source.)

I've just turned Dr Watson on (sounds kinda kinky!)
so we'll see what that shows next time there's a crash

Yerrbut - you can look in the Event Viewer *now*. See
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d....mspx?mfr=true


Then look in the application and system logs in particular for the red
error events and see what their source was.

PS
If you have not looked at the logs before be prepared for an awful lot
of errors and even more warnings. Most are ignorable.

Hi Robin
No red errors - but a scattering of yellow exclamation marks

event ID 51 - An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\D
during a paging operation.

the only red errors are
id 7000 The SupportSoft Sprocket Service (dellsupportcenter) service
failed to start due to the following error:
The system cannot find the file specified.

The system's on its 2nd hard drive - the first one failed after about
6 months....

I'm pretty sure that I have a second new spare hard drive (courtesy of
Dell). I have Acronis, and could easily clone the current system drive -
would that be a plan ?

Thanks
Adrian

expect a typical well used home machines disk to be dead in 4 years on
average

I trashed one seagate barracuda in 15 months at home and have trashed 2
hard drives at work over the years. Amazes me that some people do not
back up anything.

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Adrian Brentnall wrote:

I'm trying to avoid the grief of a complete reinstall - if it get that
bad then I'll probably buy another PC and migrate across!

I've got it to a routine. All the data's on D:\, with the images of the
install CDs and DVDs, so it's format C:/U, and go for it.

I do back up all the data to another system first, just in case, but I do
that most days anyway. All data is present in at least three, often five,
locations on different machines and USB drives.

Was 'piling system' a typo ? g made me chuckle!

If you'd seen my flat, you'd know.....

I use ghost 14.
Install XP from scratch (ages back) and image it to D: (and NAS + a copy)
Every few months, pull the image back, add any recent updates, re-ghost it
to D: and NAS etc etc.
I also have - 'docs & settings', 'favourites' and 'outlook express store' on
D:
15 mins and you've recovered the machine.

tony sayer wrote:
I normally end up doing a clean reinstall every year or so. An evening
getting it to the stage of being safe on the internet, update Windows
overnight, which usually takes a couple of evenings while I watch TV,
then re-install the programs one by one as I use them from the install
images on the HD, or dig out the CDs from the piling system.



Why do you do that John?. Which version of Win are you running as we
have a good mix of WIN 200 Pro and XP machines around and all in
there're running fine, some been on the go 6 odd or more years!...

XP, which I find slows down over time. A fresh install every year or so
gets the performance back where it should be, though that may be partly
psychological. I also find that it gets less stable over time, and, no,
I don't visit dodgy download sites, though I do tend to push the limits
with what I use the computers for, which means I notice any problems
early on.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 11/05/2011 20:27, Tinkerer wrote:
"Adrian wrote in message
...
HI All
Sorta DIY - I'm trying to fix it myselfg

WinXP Pro SP3 PC, Dell fairly basic desktop (Vostro 200), about 4 years
old, fully updated, running Avast antivirus& Spybot.
Every so often, the PC just locks up solid, not responsive to mouse,
Alt-Ctl-Del or anything else...
Only way out is to pull the mains plug (I know it's not a good idea - but
what can you do ?)

Happens most often when running a particular web authoring package
(Netobjects Fusion) - but has also happened (once) with another web
authoring package (WYSIWYG).

Tried blowing the muck out of the PC fans etc. - but doesn't seem
to have made any difference. Lifted& reseated the memory.

I'm a bit at a loss for where to look next?
Any ideas, please ?


I had similar problems with Netobjects Fusion. It was version 10 and the
problem occurred after installing all the updates. Reinstalled Fusion but
ignored the updates and all was well. Might not be your problem, but then
again......

Thanks - good to know I'm not alone ! g
As one can't easily contact the people @ Netfusion, you have to rely on
the folks who populate the support group - and they say, somewhat
unscientifically, that Fusion 'uses a computer hard' (!)
I know that Fusion generates HTML from its own database, and the
problems yesterday were on editing a 160-page site, the particular
problem page having a very large table structure on it...
I have had the program crash under other conditions, but yesterday was
particularly bad / frequent....

I'm planning on moving away from Fusion - but have work to do on my 30+
websites in the meantime!

Thanks
Adrian

In article , John Williamson johnwilli
scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
I normally end up doing a clean reinstall every year or so. An evening
getting it to the stage of being safe on the internet, update Windows
overnight, which usually takes a couple of evenings while I watch TV,
then re-install the programs one by one as I use them from the install
images on the HD, or dig out the CDs from the piling system.



Why do you do that John?. Which version of Win are you running as we
have a good mix of WIN 200 Pro and XP machines around and all in
there're running fine, some been on the go 6 odd or more years!...

XP, which I find slows down over time. A fresh install every year or so
gets the performance back where it should be, though that may be partly
psychological. I also find that it gets less stable over time, and, no,
I don't visit dodgy download sites, though I do tend to push the limits
with what I use the computers for, which means I notice any problems
early on.


Well I find that it all seems fine, just runs does what we need and
haven't seen any lock up's for a very long time now..

And that's on all the machines, let alone the WIN 7 engined ones the
only WIN that we don't give house room to is Vista!..

So if it slows what's the reason ?.. Why?...
--
Tony Sayer

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 11/05/2011 21:18, Robin wrote:
Have you used the Event Viewer to look at the logs? (I don't have
much experience with the black art of interpreting the logs but they
should at least show if it is a consistent source.)

I've just turned Dr Watson on (sounds kinda kinky!)
so we'll see what that shows next time there's a crash

Yerrbut - you can look in the Event Viewer *now*. See
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...l/proddocs/en-
us/snap_event_viewer.mspx?mfr=true


Then look in the application and system logs in particular for the red
error events and see what their source was.

PS
If you have not looked at the logs before be prepared for an awful lot
of errors and even more warnings. Most are ignorable.

Hi Robin
No red errors - but a scattering of yellow exclamation marks

event ID 51 - An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\D during
a paging operation.

the only red errors are
id 7000 The SupportSoft Sprocket Service (dellsupportcenter) service
failed to start due to the following error:
The system cannot find the file specified.

The system's on its 2nd hard drive - the first one failed after about 6
months....

I'm pretty sure that I have a second new spare hard drive (courtesy of
Dell). I have Acronis, and could easily clone the current system drive -
would that be a plan ?

Thanks
Adrian

expect a typical well used home machines disk to be dead in 4 years on
average


Yes capt'n, they sure don't make them like thy used to. Just bought a
couple of Samsung drives to try them. One review said that they were
very quiet .. someone else's idea of quiet isn't what mine is;!..

Suppose that what's been mentioned above might be an indicator, perhaps
a disk scan might be in order?..
--
Tony Sayer

HI Tony

snip

expect a typical well used home machines disk to be dead in 4 years on
average


Yes capt'n, they sure don't make them like thy used to. Just bought a
couple of Samsung drives to try them. One review said that they were
very quiet .. someone else's idea of quiet isn't what mine is;!..

We had a couple of power outages here before Christmas. Amazing just how
quiet the house and the office become without the cheery hum of PCs,
skyboxes, fridges and all that stuff!


Suppose that what's been mentioned above might be an indicator, perhaps
a disk scan might be in order?..

Pretty sure I did one of those a month or so ago.....
but you're right - might be a plan g
Might also bite the bullet and clone the existing hard drive (thinks -
must get the copy-from and copy-to the right way round!)

The current disk is a Hitachi, the unused spare is a Western Digital
(Dell-supplied when the first 'dell' disk expired after 6 months!)

Seems odd that XP is coughing up warnings, but no 'Oh F*ck I've died'
messages.... or perhaps they happen so suddenly that it doesn't get a
chance to report them ? guessing

Many years ago, in a kind of Dilbert moment, the (un-technical, but
well-intentioned) Manager of our department suggested that we fit our
Automatically-guided forktrucks with a scrolling alpha-numeric display -
so that we / they could display diagnostic messages like 'processor
failed'. He went kinda quiet when we pointed out that, if the uP was
dead then the chances of getting it to display such a message were a bit
slim.... g

.....but times have moved on since then.... haven't they ?

Adrian

No red errors - but a scattering of yellow exclamation marks

I am a bit surprised that so few are red - but having loads of ignorance
I am used to often being surprised ;(

I'm pretty sure that I have a second new spare hard drive (courtesy of
Dell). I have Acronis, and could easily clone the current system
drive - would that be a plan ?

Well it can't do any harm if you have a spare hard disk (and would be
another way of backing up your data). But given the lock-ups happen
most with Netobjects Fusion I'd be inclined also (and first) to remove
and re-install that package. And also as
others have said (i) check the hard disk for errors and (ii) check the
memory. (At least, I think someone suggested you check the memory but I
can't find now who/where/how. One way would be to use the Dell
diagnostics: with a Vostro 200: start it; when you see the DELL logo
press F12 ; select Diagnostics from the menu and press Enter; then
select "Test Memory" (or indeed "Test System" and check the lot).)

HTH (and that others will chip in fast if I've erred).
--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

HI Robin

On 12/05/2011 08:48, Robin wrote:
No red errors - but a scattering of yellow exclamation marks

I am a bit surprised that so few are red - but having loads of ignorance
I am used to often being surprised ;(

I'm pretty sure that I have a second new spare hard drive (courtesy of
Dell). I have Acronis, and could easily clone the current system
drive - would that be a plan ?

Well it can't do any harm if you have a spare hard disk (and would be
another way of backing up your data).

Can never have too many backups! g
The important data _should_ be on the external drive, but you never know...

But given the lock-ups happen
most with Netobjects Fusion I'd be inclined also (and first) to remove
and re-install that package.

Mmmm - but it seems to be a 'feature' of the package, (based on other
online comments) rather than a defective install...

And also as
others have said (i) check the hard disk for errors and (ii) check the
memory. (At least, I think someone suggested you check the memory but I
can't find now who/where/how. One way would be to use the Dell
diagnostics: with a Vostro 200: start it; when you see the DELL logo
pressF12 ; select Diagnostics from the menu and pressEnter; then
select "Test Memory" (or indeed "Test System" and check the lot).)

HTH (and that others will chip in fast if I've erred).

Not a bad idea - might just do that....

Thanks
Adrian

tony sayer wrote:
In article , John Williamson johnwilli
scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
I normally end up doing a clean reinstall every year or so. An evening
getting it to the stage of being safe on the internet, update Windows
overnight, which usually takes a couple of evenings while I watch TV,
then re-install the programs one by one as I use them from the install
images on the HD, or dig out the CDs from the piling system.


Why do you do that John?. Which version of Win are you running as we
have a good mix of WIN 200 Pro and XP machines around and all in
there're running fine, some been on the go 6 odd or more years!...
XP, which I find slows down over time. A fresh install every year or so
gets the performance back where it should be, though that may be partly
psychological. I also find that it gets less stable over time, and, no,
I don't visit dodgy download sites, though I do tend to push the limits
with what I use the computers for, which means I notice any problems
early on.


Well I find that it all seems fine, just runs does what we need and
haven't seen any lock up's for a very long time now..

And that's on all the machines, let alone the WIN 7 engined ones the
only WIN that we don't give house room to is Vista!..

So if it slows what's the reason ?.. Why?...

Dunno, I just know that it does, and slowly gets more and more unstable
with time.

The only machine that wll run 7 is the only one that doesn't seem to
suffer, but that's the only one that's got a lot of reserve capacity.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Wed, 11 May 2011 21:37:11 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 11/05/2011 17:08, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
HI All
Sorta DIY - I'm trying to fix it myself g

WinXP Pro SP3 PC, Dell fairly basic desktop (Vostro 200), about 4 years
old, fully updated, running Avast antivirus & Spybot.
Every so often, the PC just locks up solid, not responsive to mouse,
Alt-Ctl-Del or anything else...
Only way out is to pull the mains plug (I know it's not a good idea -
but what can you do ?)

Happens most often when running a particular web authoring package
(Netobjects Fusion) - but has also happened (once) with another web
authoring package (WYSIWYG).

Tried blowing the muck out of the PC fans etc. - but doesn't seem
to have made any difference. Lifted & reseated the memory.

I'm a bit at a loss for where to look next?
Any ideas, please ?

Thanks
Adrian

I had similar problems with random lock-ups, but in my case it was after
changing to Windows 7. Went back to XP, fine, re-installed 7, random
crashes. After trying many things, I eventually downloaded a free memory
testing program (I can't remember which) which could be burned to disk
and booted from and I quickly tracked it down to a few faulty bits in a
couple of memory locations. I removed the offending memory and
everything was fine again. I had a similar experience with another
computer many years ago which would run Windows NT fine, but crashed mid
installation when installing Windows Me (NT didn't allow the use of the
USB ports, hence the change to Me).

Trouble is there are lots of things that could cause random lockups. I
had one PC where it took me ages to track down the problem which
turned out to be a BIOS bug.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On 11/05/2011 17:08, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
HI All
Sorta DIY - I'm trying to fix it myself g

WinXP Pro SP3 PC, Dell fairly basic desktop (Vostro 200), about 4 years
old, fully updated, running Avast antivirus & Spybot.
Every so often, the PC just locks up solid, not responsive to mouse,
Alt-Ctl-Del or anything else...
Only way out is to pull the mains plug (I know it's not a good idea -
but what can you do ?)

Happens most often when running a particular web authoring package
(Netobjects Fusion) - but has also happened (once) with another web
authoring package (WYSIWYG).

Tried blowing the muck out of the PC fans etc. - but doesn't seem
to have made any difference. Lifted & reseated the memory.

I'm a bit at a loss for where to look next?
Any ideas, please ?

Thanks
Adrian


Sounds like faulty memory to me, and that those applications happen to
use the affected area.
If there are 2 or more DIMMS, try removing 1 (so running on half the
memory) and see if it crashes. Swap and try with the other.
It's unilkely that both are faulty (but posible I guess)

"Invisible Man" wrote in message
news:iqevb9$brb$2@dont-

Take care with CCleaner


Why? Having passwords and personal information held by
a browser is foolhardy at best.
If you have a bad memory for password combos try keeping
them on a thumb drive, new installs and cookie cleaning etc
will mean you still have all that info to hand.
Also, if your pc were compromised then sensitive data can also
be kept in a drawer rather than easily accessible to a hacker/Trojan
on your HDD.

Personally I have used ccleaner for quite some time, all without issue.
Trying not to sound aggressive, but what care exactly are you trying
to highlight? I'd be interested to know of any issues you may have
had or heard of just so I can be aware myself.

--
The man who smiles when things go wrong
has thought of someone to blame it on.

In article , Invisible Man
writes

This is way OT for uk.d-i-y, uk.comp.homebuilt would be a better choice.

Whenever I have reinstalled windows I have had to reinstall everything
else afterwards. If there is an easy way I Would love to hear it.

Do a repair install, preserves all your installed apps and settings.

--
Mike Tomlinson

In article , Adrian Brentnall
writes
HI All
Sorta DIY - I'm trying to fix it myself g

uk.comp.homebuilt would be more suitable

Every so often, the PC just locks up solid, not responsive to mouse,
Alt-Ctl-Del or anything else...

Bad caps on the motherboard. But before condemning it, run memtest86+
from www.memtest.org overnight. Any failures = bad caps (probably), bad
cpu (unlikely), bad memory (possible).

--
Mike Tomlinson

On 12/05/2011 12:41, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In , Invisible Man
writes

This is way OT for uk.d-i-y, uk.comp.homebuilt would be a better choice.

Whenever I have reinstalled windows I have had to reinstall everything
else afterwards. If there is an easy way I Would love to hear it.

Do a repair install, preserves all your installed apps and settings.


Yup if done correctly, and the right option is available.

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

There is so much confusion between different builds and releases of XP
(Professional, Home, SP1,2,3, Retail, OEM, Brand custom) that the
unaware can start the process off and be next looking at either a
completely virgin copy of XP (with all data and applications gone), or
something that is almost there for the data but all the applications
have lost their registry marbles and no longer work.

--
Adrian C

On 12/05/2011 12:01, Nitro® wrote:

"Invisible Man" wrote in message
news:iqevb9$brb$2@dont-

Take care with CCleaner


Why? Having passwords and personal information held by
a browser is foolhardy at best.
If you have a bad memory for password combos try keeping
them on a thumb drive, new installs and cookie cleaning etc
will mean you still have all that info to hand.
Also, if your pc were compromised then sensitive data can also
be kept in a drawer rather than easily accessible to a hacker/Trojan
on your HDD.

Personally I have used ccleaner for quite some time, all without issue.
Trying not to sound aggressive, but what care exactly are you trying
to highlight? I'd be interested to know of any issues you may have
had or heard of just so I can be aware myself.

Can't remember what problem I had with CCleaner. It was a long time ago.
If used carefully by someone with a little knowledge it does a lot of
things well but it is necessary to keep an eye on what you are doing.
Googling CCleaner problems will come up with a few hits.

At present I use bits of:

WinUtilities
Auslogics disk defrag
CodeStuff Starter
Secunia PSI
Syncback

(W7 64 bit)

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Invisible Man
saying something like:

Whenever I have reinstalled windows I have had to reinstall everything
else afterwards. If there is an easy way I Would love to hear it.

Dead simple, and has been for years.
Just after an installation, take an image of the C drive with Acronis or
similar imaging software. It's a doddle to re-install from the image
thereafter, taking as little as 30 minutes.

"Invisible Man" wrote in message
news:iqgkd7$9m5$1@dont-

At present I use bits of:

WinUtilities
Auslogics disk defrag
CodeStuff Starter
Secunia PSI
Syncback


Never heard of Secunia PSI until now, cheers.


--
The man who smiles when things go wrong
has thought of someone to blame it on.

HI All

Thanks for the comments so far....

I have looked in the Event Logs and seem to be getting a fair few
warnings (not errors) "error51 on \Harddisk1\D during a paging operation"

I've run Dell's built-in diagnostics and they come up clean (both quick
and extended) - also downloaded Hitachi's own disk test suite and that
says 'OK'....

I'm wondering if it could be an obscure memory fault - could replace all
the system memory for 50 euro or so - might this be a Good Plan ?

Thanks in advance
Adrian

On 13/05/2011 10:41, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
HI All

Thanks for the comments so far....

I have looked in the Event Logs and seem to be getting a fair few
warnings (not errors) "error51 on \Harddisk1\D during a paging operation"


Following may help to decode the data section recorded in the event log
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/244780

I've run Dell's built-in diagnostics and they come up clean (both quick
and extended) - also downloaded Hitachi's own disk test suite and that
says 'OK'....

Do a check with HDtune and those SMART registers. Some manufacturer HDD
testing tools are designed to keep failing customer drives away from
their RMA department. When the drive starts reallocating sectors, is the
time that I tend to ditch it - however the top line of a diagnostic
could still say 'PASS' in that senario.


I'm wondering if it could be an obscure memory fault - could replace all
the system memory for 50 euro or so - might this be a Good Plan ?

Problem with that is 1) memory itself rarely fails unless if badly
overclocked or over volted and 2) What if it turns out to be the
motherboard?

Apply the business case. Sling it.

--
Adrian C

On 13/05/2011 10:58, Adrian C wrote:
On 13/05/2011 10:41, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
HI All

Thanks for the comments so far....

I have looked in the Event Logs and seem to be getting a fair few
warnings (not errors) "error51 on \Harddisk1\D during a paging operation"


Following may help to decode the data section recorded in the event log
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/244780

I've run Dell's built-in diagnostics and they come up clean (both quick
and extended) - also downloaded Hitachi's own disk test suite and that
says 'OK'....

Do a check with HDtune and those SMART registers. Some manufacturer HDD
testing tools are designed to keep failing customer drives away from
their RMA department. When the drive starts reallocating sectors, is the
time that I tend to ditch it - however the top line of a diagnostic
could still say 'PASS' in that senario.

Interesting.... g Thanks



I'm wondering if it could be an obscure memory fault - could replace all
the system memory for 50 euro or so - might this be a Good Plan ?

Problem with that is 1) memory itself rarely fails unless if badly
overclocked or over volted and 2) What if it turns out to be the
motherboard?

Apply the business case. Sling it.

Hmmm.
I've just specced out the nearest equivalent Dell machine - and it's
best part of €340 + vat + delivery.
The bigger cost to me is that the box would come with Windows7, and
various bits of kit hanging off this PC would probably not have drivers
available, plus there's the grief of reinstalling software & so on...

I think my business case is best served if I can get this machine
running again g

Checking up on the memory, it seems that I've got a mix of memory
modules installed - 2 x DDR2 PC2-5300, 2 x DDR2 PC2-6400, DDR2
(non-ECC) - so whether that's significant or not ...??

Also contacted my friendly local freelance Dell fixit-man - who's going
to call by with a bag of bits, an AVO, and a prayer-mat some time next
week - we'll see if he can work some magic for me!

Thanks
Adrian

On 13/05/2011 08:39, Nitro® wrote:

"Invisible Man" wrote in message
news:iqgkd7$9m5$1@dont-

At present I use bits of:

WinUtilities
Auslogics disk defrag
CodeStuff Starter
Secunia PSI
Syncback


Never heard of Secunia PSI until now, cheers.


It can come up with false problems if something has been saved somewhere
unexpected but I run it every month. It is amazing how many applications
are not updated without a little help and it saves having automatic
updates running all the time for heaps of apps.

In article , John Williamson johnwilli
scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
In article , John Williamson johnwilli
scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
I normally end up doing a clean reinstall every year or so. An evening
getting it to the stage of being safe on the internet, update Windows
overnight, which usually takes a couple of evenings while I watch TV,
then re-install the programs one by one as I use them from the install
images on the HD, or dig out the CDs from the piling system.


Why do you do that John?. Which version of Win are you running as we
have a good mix of WIN 200 Pro and XP machines around and all in
there're running fine, some been on the go 6 odd or more years!...
XP, which I find slows down over time. A fresh install every year or so
gets the performance back where it should be, though that may be partly
psychological. I also find that it gets less stable over time, and, no,
I don't visit dodgy download sites, though I do tend to push the limits
with what I use the computers for, which means I notice any problems
early on.


Well I find that it all seems fine, just runs does what we need and
haven't seen any lock up's for a very long time now..

And that's on all the machines, let alone the WIN 7 engined ones the
only WIN that we don't give house room to is Vista!..

So if it slows what's the reason ?.. Why?...

Dunno, I just know that it does, and slowly gets more and more unstable
with time.


Wonder -why- you are finding that?..

The only machine that wll run 7 is the only one that doesn't seem to
suffer, but that's the only one that's got a lot of reserve capacity.

Yes but thats a differing operating system?.. Are you saying thats got
more storage capacity or processing power ?..
--
Tony Sayer

Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 13/05/2011 10:58, Adrian C wrote:
On 13/05/2011 10:41, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
HI All

Thanks for the comments so far....

I have looked in the Event Logs and seem to be getting a fair few
warnings (not errors) "error51 on \Harddisk1\D during a paging
operation"

Following may help to decode the data section recorded in the event
log http://support.microsoft.com/kb/244780

I've run Dell's built-in diagnostics and they come up clean (both
quick and extended) - also downloaded Hitachi's own disk test suite
and that says 'OK'....

Do a check with HDtune and those SMART registers. Some manufacturer
HDD testing tools are designed to keep failing customer drives away
from their RMA department. When the drive starts reallocating
sectors, is the time that I tend to ditch it - however the top line
of a diagnostic could still say 'PASS' in that senario.

Interesting.... g Thanks



I'm wondering if it could be an obscure memory fault - could
replace all the system memory for 50 euro or so - might this be a
Good Plan ?

Problem with that is 1) memory itself rarely fails unless if badly
overclocked or over volted and 2) What if it turns out to be the
motherboard?

Apply the business case. Sling it.

Hmmm.
I've just specced out the nearest equivalent Dell machine - and it's
best part of €340 + vat + delivery.
The bigger cost to me is that the box would come with Windows7, and
various bits of kit hanging off this PC would probably not have
drivers available, plus there's the grief of reinstalling software &
so on...
I think my business case is best served if I can get this machine
running again g

Checking up on the memory, it seems that I've got a mix of memory
modules installed - 2 x DDR2 PC2-5300, 2 x DDR2 PC2-6400, DDR2
(non-ECC) - so whether that's significant or not ...??

Also contacted my friendly local freelance Dell fixit-man - who's
going to call by with a bag of bits, an AVO, and a prayer-mat some
time next week - we'll see if he can work some magic for me!

Thanks
Adrian

As to the different RAM, perhaps not best practice and the PC2-6400 will
only run at the slower speed of the PC2-5300, but if it's been working OK up
to now then fair enough.

Perhaps the biggest lesson I've learned is not to buy Dell. Love them or
loath them, Intel and Microsoft between them brought computing to the masses
and drove some form of standardization to the market so that if, for
instance, an ATX PSU goes faulty, you can walk into almost any computer shop
from Land's End to John O'Groats and buy an industry standard ATX PSU for
anything from 15 quid upwards.

When my mate's Dell went faulty, Dell had him over a barrel because the PSU
wasn't the industry standard size and shape - he could only get a
replacement from Dell and they charged £97.50!! Needless to say, he doesn't
buy Dell machines anymore.

Adrian Brentnall wrote:
HI All

Thanks for the comments so far....

I have looked in the Event Logs and seem to be getting a fair few
warnings (not errors) "error51 on \Harddisk1\D during a paging
operation"
I've run Dell's built-in diagnostics and they come up clean (both
quick and extended) - also downloaded Hitachi's own disk test suite
and that says 'OK'....

I'm wondering if it could be an obscure memory fault - could replace
all the system memory for 50 euro or so - might this be a Good Plan ?

Don't just blindly replace the memory, test it first with memtest86+ from
http://www.memtest.org/

On 13/05/2011 13:28, John wrote:

As to the different RAM, perhaps not best practice and the PC2-6400 will
only run at the slower speed of the PC2-5300, but if it's been working OK up
to now then fair enough.

Perhaps the biggest lesson I've learned is not to buy Dell. Love them or
loath them, Intel and Microsoft between them brought computing to the masses
and drove some form of standardization to the market so that if, for
instance, an ATX PSU goes faulty, you can walk into almost any computer shop
from Land's End to John O'Groats and buy an industry standard ATX PSU for
anything from 15 quid upwards.

When my mate's Dell went faulty, Dell had him over a barrel because the PSU
wasn't the industry standard size and shape - he could only get a
replacement from Dell and they charged £97.50!!eedless to say, he doesn't
buy Dell machines anymore.

They don't do that anymore with the PSU, but they now have other games
afoot as certianly do other companies. Perhaps your friend doesn't buy
certain brands of automobile as each manufacturer has custom parts that
fail and require expensive replacement?

Where has Tiscali Idiot gone? This was his favourite topic?

--
Adrian C

Adrian Brentnall wrote:
HI All

Thanks for the comments so far....

I have looked in the Event Logs and seem to be getting a fair few
warnings (not errors) "error51 on \Harddisk1\D during a paging operation"

I've run Dell's built-in diagnostics and they come up clean (both quick
and extended) - also downloaded Hitachi's own disk test suite and that
says 'OK'....

I'm wondering if it could be an obscure memory fault - could replace all
the system memory for 50 euro or so - might this be a Good Plan ?

Thanks in advance
Adrian

FWIW the three classic 'old computer gone flaky' faults I have found
after years of managing offices and server rooms full of em are

Fan is clogged.died
Hard disk is failing
Memory is damaged.

By swapping any one of the three, usually a couple more years of life
were gleaned, but really, apart from the case and motherboard, replacing
ALL three means there isn't a lot of value left.

Interestingly somewhere in m trawls on cosmic rays, was a statistic that
showed the average 4GB ram today was likely to suffer a couple of false
bits due to cosmic radiation every month..if that gets 'rewritten to
disk' you may be left with a corrupt operating system.

However in general if you are getting errors such as hard disk warnings,
its probably a sign that the disk is more or less toast.

RAM errors tend to show up as kernel panics, or really weird behaviour.
Disk errors that result in infinite retries to get the data, will lock a
machine up.

Now this is not to say that it IS a disk error per se. If you have
ageing or high temperature issues you may get bus collisions that show
up as errors when disk access is attempted.

In this case I am more inclined to suspect a clogged fan and
overheating, or a disk that's dying, than RAM.

So I would start by replacing the disk on the basis its probably past
its sell by date anyway, and vacuuming out and checking all the fans.

I have generally found that if the RAM goes flaky, with luck my local
PC man can supply a motherboard and new ram for little more than the
cost of the old ram, if the machine is more than a few years old..
In fact new motherboard, ram and disk often works out a little over the
100 quid mark for a much faster machine.

Reuse the same case, video card, mouse, keyboard,monitor and DVD drive
and its a low cost upgrade..
..

Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 13/05/2011 10:58, Adrian C wrote:
On 13/05/2011 10:41, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
HI All

Thanks for the comments so far....

I have looked in the Event Logs and seem to be getting a fair few
warnings (not errors) "error51 on \Harddisk1\D during a paging
operation"


Following may help to decode the data section recorded in the event log
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/244780

I've run Dell's built-in diagnostics and they come up clean (both quick
and extended) - also downloaded Hitachi's own disk test suite and that
says 'OK'....

Do a check with HDtune and those SMART registers. Some manufacturer HDD
testing tools are designed to keep failing customer drives away from
their RMA department. When the drive starts reallocating sectors, is the
time that I tend to ditch it - however the top line of a diagnostic
could still say 'PASS' in that senario.

Interesting.... g Thanks



I'm wondering if it could be an obscure memory fault - could replace all
the system memory for 50 euro or so - might this be a Good Plan ?

Problem with that is 1) memory itself rarely fails unless if badly
overclocked or over volted and 2) What if it turns out to be the
motherboard?

Apply the business case. Sling it.

Hmmm.
I've just specced out the nearest equivalent Dell machine - and it's
best part of ‚¬340 + vat + delivery.
The bigger cost to me is that the box would come with Windows7, and
various bits of kit hanging off this PC would probably not have drivers
available, plus there's the grief of reinstalling software & so on...

I think my business case is best served if I can get this machine
running again g

Checking up on the memory, it seems that I've got a mix of memory
modules installed - 2 x DDR2 PC2-5300, 2 x DDR2 PC2-6400, DDR2
(non-ECC) - so whether that's significant or not ...??

Also contacted my friendly local freelance Dell fixit-man - who's going
to call by with a bag of bits, an AVO, and a prayer-mat some time next
week - we'll see if he can work some magic for me!


So don't buy Dell.
Buy from a pc maker who will sell you just the hardware, if you have
full install disks available for generic machines.

What actually do you need out of this machine anyway?

My virtualbox XP installion outperforms teh XP machine it replaced..
Thanks
Adrian

On 13/05/2011 13:15, Invisible Man wrote:
Never heard of Secunia PSI until now, cheers.


It can come up with false problems if something has been saved somewhere
unexpected but I run it every month. It is amazing how many applications
are not updated without a little help and it saves having automatic
updates running all the time for heaps of apps.

Impressive program. Well worth installing. Thanks.

--
Adrian C

In article , Adrian C
writes

Where has Tiscali Idiot gone?

same place as w_tom, presumably. hopefully.

--
Mike Tomlinson

On 13/05/2011 16:24, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In , Adrian C
writes

Where has Tiscali Idiot gone?

same place as w_tom, presumably. hopefully.

Tiscali!

Probably connection failed and being chased round the block by
threatening debt collectors for a non-existent debt.

tony sayer wrote:
In article , John Williamson johnwilli
scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
In article , John Williamson johnwilli
scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
I normally end up doing a clean reinstall every year or so. An evening
getting it to the stage of being safe on the internet, update Windows
overnight, which usually takes a couple of evenings while I watch TV,
then re-install the programs one by one as I use them from the install
images on the HD, or dig out the CDs from the piling system.

Why do you do that John?. Which version of Win are you running as we
have a good mix of WIN 200 Pro and XP machines around and all in
there're running fine, some been on the go 6 odd or more years!...
XP, which I find slows down over time. A fresh install every year or so
gets the performance back where it should be, though that may be partly
psychological. I also find that it gets less stable over time, and, no,
I don't visit dodgy download sites, though I do tend to push the limits
with what I use the computers for, which means I notice any problems
early on.

Well I find that it all seems fine, just runs does what we need and
haven't seen any lock up's for a very long time now..

And that's on all the machines, let alone the WIN 7 engined ones the
only WIN that we don't give house room to is Vista!..

So if it slows what's the reason ?.. Why?...
Dunno, I just know that it does, and slowly gets more and more unstable
with time.


Wonder -why- you are finding that?..

Ask Microsoft and Intel. I don't know. I do know that a re-install gets
it back to the original speed and stability.

The only machine that wll run 7 is the only one that doesn't seem to
suffer, but that's the only one that's got a lot of reserve capacity.

Yes but thats a differing operating system?.. Are you saying thats got
more storage capacity or processing power ?..

XP runs with a degree of success on oldish machines with 256 Meg of
memory, and various processors.

7 won't even install until the machine has a 1GHz processor and a Gig of
RAM, and 15Gig spare on the HD. This EEE (4Gig C: drive, and 2Gig of
RAM) will run XP, the twin core 1.6GHz machine will run 7 almost as fast
as the EEE runs XP. Which is why all my machines run XP, and will do
until M$ withdraw support, at which point, given the way 7 has had stuff
moved round, I may well go for Linux.

I've just found an old Toshiba Satellite 1800, which I'll probably end
up installing ME on, as I need a particular item of hardware supported,
and 98 won't run the drivers. At the moment, it's trying to install
Debian, so I can see if that will do the required job.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 12/05/2011 12:01, Nitro® wrote:

"Invisible Man" wrote in message
news:iqevb9$brb$2@dont-

Take care with CCleaner


Why? Having passwords and personal information held by
a browser is foolhardy at best.

Personally I don't have any problem with my browser remembering
passwords and ids for forums, newspapers, etc. that I visit. It's far
easier letting it just get on with it and saves me any effort. If it
ends up compromised, there's no great loss.

Passwords for banking, inland revenue, etc. are however, a different
matter and I certainly wouldn't let the browser store those.

SteveW

On 12/05/2011 11:26, John Rumm wrote:
On 12/05/2011 08:42, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
HI Tony

snip

expect a typical well used home machines disk to be dead in 4 years on
average


Yes capt'n, they sure don't make them like thy used to. Just bought a
couple of Samsung drives to try them. One review said that they were
very quiet .. someone else's idea of quiet isn't what mine is;!..

We had a couple of power outages here before Christmas. Amazing just how
quiet the house and the office become without the cheery hum of PCs,
skyboxes, fridges and all that stuff!


Suppose that what's been mentioned above might be an indicator, perhaps
a disk scan might be in order?..

Pretty sure I did one of those a month or so ago.....
but you're right - might be a plan g
Might also bite the bullet and clone the existing hard drive (thinks -
must get the copy-from and copy-to the right way round!)

The current disk is a Hitachi, the unused spare is a Western Digital
(Dell-supplied when the first 'dell' disk expired after 6 months!)

Seems odd that XP is coughing up warnings, but no 'Oh F*ck I've died'
messages.... or perhaps they happen so suddenly that it doesn't get a
chance to report them ? guessing


Rather than guessing, turn on SMART monitoring in the BIOS if you have
it. That will report early indications of drive failure. Meanwhile
install a copy of SpeedFan and use that to check the drives SMART
parameters. It will tell you if any of the logs kept by the drive itself
indicate any problems lurking (such as failures to spin up, or the need
to reallocate too many bad sectors).

Many years ago, in a kind of Dilbert moment, the (un-technical, but
well-intentioned) Manager of our department suggested that we fit our
Automatically-guided forktrucks with a scrolling alpha-numeric display -
so that we / they could display diagnostic messages like 'processor
failed'. He went kinda quiet when we pointed out that, if the uP was
dead then the chances of getting it to display such a message were a bit
slim.... g

....but times have moved on since then.... haven't they ?

Nope, dumb error messages are at large in the wild!

I'm sure I remember a great one from my ZX Spectrum and QL days, but I
don't seem to be able to find any reference to it at the moment -
"Unprintable Error".

Does anyone else have any recollection of it?

SteveW

On 13/05/2011 14:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 13/05/2011 10:58, Adrian C wrote:
On 13/05/2011 10:41, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
HI All

Thanks for the comments so far....

I have looked in the Event Logs and seem to be getting a fair few
warnings (not errors) "error51 on \Harddisk1\D during a paging
operation"


Following may help to decode the data section recorded in the event log
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/244780

I've run Dell's built-in diagnostics and they come up clean (both quick
and extended) - also downloaded Hitachi's own disk test suite and that
says 'OK'....

Do a check with HDtune and those SMART registers. Some manufacturer HDD
testing tools are designed to keep failing customer drives away from
their RMA department. When the drive starts reallocating sectors, is the
time that I tend to ditch it - however the top line of a diagnostic
could still say 'PASS' in that senario.

Interesting.... g Thanks



I'm wondering if it could be an obscure memory fault - could replace
all
the system memory for 50 euro or so - might this be a Good Plan ?

Problem with that is 1) memory itself rarely fails unless if badly
overclocked or over volted and 2) What if it turns out to be the
motherboard?

Apply the business case. Sling it.

Hmmm.
I've just specced out the nearest equivalent Dell machine - and it's
best part of ‚¬340 + vat + delivery.
The bigger cost to me is that the box would come with Windows7, and
various bits of kit hanging off this PC would probably not have
drivers available, plus there's the grief of reinstalling software &
so on...

I think my business case is best served if I can get this machine
running again g

Checking up on the memory, it seems that I've got a mix of memory
modules installed - 2 x DDR2 PC2-5300, 2 x DDR2 PC2-6400, DDR2
(non-ECC) - so whether that's significant or not ...??

Also contacted my friendly local freelance Dell fixit-man - who's
going to call by with a bag of bits, an AVO, and a prayer-mat some
time next week - we'll see if he can work some magic for me!


So don't buy Dell.
Buy from a pc maker who will sell you just the hardware, if you have
full install disks available for generic machines.

Don't know about that - I do have the Dell disks, plus some other WinXP
disks that seem to install OK on one or two other 'home-built' machines

What actually do you need out of this machine anyway?

Nothing earth-shattering g

General w/p / openoffice activities, graphics stuff (Paint-Shop Pro),
web authoring (Netobjects Fusion & WYSIWYG plus anything else that takes
my fancy).
Email & web. Very infrequently editing music files (Goldwave).
Runs a set of software to drive a vinyl cutter.
Output for two screens..... that's about it

Oh - and not falling in a heap would be a bonus! g

Regards
Adrian