We need to replace our old acrylic bath and taps with a new one,
preferably steel as the plastic was just too darned hard to keep clean.
I'm still not sure whether bath replacement is feasible for an only
moderately competent diyer.

There seem to be two distinct price ranges on steel baths, one around
£70-100, and another £200 upwards. The latter seem to come with much
longer guarantees, and I've also seen comments about how easy it is to
chip the enamel of baths of the cheaper sort when installing them: does
anyone have any relevant experience?

I've seen weight of baths quoted from 20kg to 65kg - if 20kg it won't be
too hard to lift, but if good quality ones with thicker steel and enamel
are really as heavy as 50 or 60kg I can't imagine how I'm going to get
it up the stairs to the 1st floor. Maybe if they are delivered, the
delivery people will do that for me? It's not helpful that almost
on-line descriptions of baths give all dimensions except the overall weight.

Taps: the old set had a thermostatic mixer for the shower which was nice
when it worked, but I had to take it apart every year or two as it
scaled up (we are in a hard water area). I've seen advice that it's a
waste of time buying a thermostatic mixer in a hard water area as all of
them suffer the same way - is that true, or are there any brands which
have solved this problem?

Removing the old bath. I can reach and loosen the nuts on the nearer
tap, but the other one is too far to reach and twist (at least without a
specialist spanner). It seems to me the simplest thing might be to cut
the copper pipes to both taps somewhat nearer the floor, remove the old
bath, and then install flexible pipes to the new taps. Does this seem
likely to solve the problem of removing the old bath? By the way, I've
seen recommendations that isolating valves be fitted as well, and at
least one posting saying they are now required: is this so?

--
Clive Page

On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:09:51 +0100 Clive Page wrote :
We need to replace our old acrylic bath and taps with a new one,
preferably steel as the plastic was just too darned hard to keep clean.
I'm still not sure whether bath replacement is feasible for an only
moderately competent diyer.

It's not that difficult depending on what you're connecting to - modern
copper is easy - 100 year old lead, probably not.

There seem to be two distinct price ranges on steel baths, one around
£70-100, and another £200 upwards. The latter seem to come with much
longer guarantees, and I've also seen comments about how easy it is to
chip the enamel of baths of the cheaper sort when installing them:
does anyone have any relevant experience?

I put one in at my old home, a Kaldewei and went for a somewhat more
expensive one, given that the labour is the same. Very good quality, no
flexing. The new owner of my home had it in a skip within a month sigh.
Note that if you go to the right supplier there is a whole choice of
lengths 1400/1500/1550/1600/1650/1700/1800 IIRC and you might find that
one other than the standard 1700 makes for a better layout.

I've seen weight of baths quoted from 20kg to 65kg - if 20kg it won't
be too hard to lift, but if good quality ones with thicker steel and
enamel are really as heavy as 50 or 60kg I can't imagine how I'm going
to get it up the stairs to the 1st floor. Maybe if they are delivered,
the delivery people will do that for me?

Officially most will only deliver kerbside, but IME most will help in
anticipation of a suitable token. Steel bath on carpet is easy to move as
you can drag it, but you probably need a second person to get a heavier
one upstairs.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.eurobeam.co.uk www.greentram.com

On 29 Apr, 12:09, Clive Page wrote:

I've seen weight of baths quoted from 20kg to 65kg - if 20kg it won't be
too hard to lift, but if good quality ones with thicker steel and enamel
are really as heavy as 50 or 60kg I can't imagine how I'm going to get
it up the stairs to the 1st floor. *Maybe if they are delivered, the
delivery people will do that for me? *It's not helpful that almost
on-line descriptions of baths give all dimensions except the overall weight.


Having just removed a steel bath (to replace with a Duravit acrylic
one - which is a *lot* more that £200), be warned that a person above
and a person below was only *just* enough to hold it going down. I
have no idea how it was originally got upstairs.

On Apr 29, 12:09*pm, Clive Page wrote:
We need to replace our old acrylic bath and taps with a new one,
preferably steel as the plastic was just too darned hard to keep clean.
* I'm still not sure whether bath replacement is feasible for an only
moderately competent diyer.

There seem to be two distinct price ranges on steel baths, one around
£70-100, and another £200 upwards. *The latter seem to come with much
longer guarantees, and I've also seen comments about how easy it is to
chip the enamel of baths of the cheaper sort when installing them: does
anyone have any relevant experience?

I've seen weight of baths quoted from 20kg to 65kg - if 20kg it won't be
too hard to lift, but if good quality ones with thicker steel and enamel
are really as heavy as 50 or 60kg I can't imagine how I'm going to get
it up the stairs to the 1st floor. *Maybe if they are delivered, the
delivery people will do that for me? *It's not helpful that almost
on-line descriptions of baths give all dimensions except the overall weight.

Taps: the old set had a thermostatic mixer for the shower which was nice
when it worked, but I had to take it apart every year or two as it
scaled up (we are in a hard water area). *I've seen advice that it's a
waste of time buying a thermostatic mixer in a hard water area as all of
them suffer the same way - is that true, or are there any brands which
have solved this problem?

Removing the old bath. *I can reach and loosen the nuts on the nearer
tap, but the other one is too far to reach and twist (at least without a
specialist spanner). *It seems to me the simplest thing might be to cut
the copper pipes to both taps somewhat nearer the floor, remove the old
bath, and then install flexible pipes to the new taps. *Does this seem
likely to solve the problem of removing the old bath? *By the way, I've
seen recommendations that isolating valves be fitted as well, and at
least one posting saying they are now required: is this so?

--
Clive Page

To get a bath upstairs tkes two people. It goes up the stairs upside
down with one person inside like a turtle. The other steers the bath
from the lower edge.

You may well have to cut the pipes. The bath is usually secured to the
back wall with two special brackets as well as to the floor.

On 29/04/2011 12:09, Clive Page wrote:
We need to replace our old acrylic bath and taps with a new one,
preferably steel as the plastic was just too darned hard to keep clean.
I'm still not sure whether bath replacement is feasible for an only
moderately competent diyer.

There seem to be two distinct price ranges on steel baths, one around
£70-100, and another £200 upwards. The latter seem to come with much
longer guarantees, and I've also seen comments about how easy it is to
chip the enamel of baths of the cheaper sort when installing them: does
anyone have any relevant experience?

I'm sure that "steel" must cover a multitude of different bath types.

There are cast iron ones, obviously, which weigh an absolute ton and God
knows how they were ever put in position. I've removed and scrapped a
few over the years and have always needed to take the
sledge-hammer/ear-defender route to even begin to move them.

I've only ever once fitted a bath that wasn't acrylic; this was a
pressed steel job, a bit unusual in that it was a non-standard length
which I couldn't source in acrylic. It was about 6 years ago, but
AFAICR the weight wasn't significantly more than an acrylic bath; or at
least, I can't recall any particular issues with getting it upstairs and
fitted (which I did myself). Seemed pretty good quality too.

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/2011 12:09, Clive Page wrote:
We need to replace our old acrylic bath and taps with a new one,
preferably steel as the plastic was just too darned hard to keep clean.
I'm still not sure whether bath replacement is feasible for an only
moderately competent diyer.

There seem to be two distinct price ranges on steel baths, one around
£70-100, and another £200 upwards. The latter seem to come with much
longer guarantees, and I've also seen comments about how easy it is to
chip the enamel of baths of the cheaper sort when installing them: does
anyone have any relevant experience?

I'm sure that "steel" must cover a multitude of different bath types.

There are cast iron ones, obviously, which weigh an absolute ton and God
knows how they were ever put in position. I've removed and scrapped a few
over the years and have always needed to take the
sledge-hammer/ear-defender route to even begin to move them.

I've only ever once fitted a bath that wasn't acrylic; this was a pressed
steel job, a bit unusual in that it was a non-standard length which I
couldn't source in acrylic. It was about 6 years ago, but AFAICR the
weight wasn't significantly more than an acrylic bath; or at least, I
can't recall any particular issues with getting it upstairs and fitted
(which I did myself). Seemed pretty good quality too.

David

When you have fitted it, don't forget to earth bond it.

polly filler wrote:


When you have fitted it, don't forget to earth bond it.

Why? The bath is entirely inside the room, so can't possibly introduce a
potential. The water pipes need to be included in the equipotential
bond, if they are metal, as does the waste pipe if that is metal.
Plastic pipes don't need to be, and can't be, bonded, of course. Under
17th edition regulations you don't even need equipotential bonding if
you RCD everything.

Mike

Martin Bonner wrote:

On 29 Apr, 12:09, Clive Page wrote:

I've seen weight of baths quoted from 20kg to 65kg - if 20kg it won't be
too hard to lift, but if good quality ones with thicker steel and enamel
are really as heavy as 50 or 60kg I can't imagine how I'm going to get
it up the stairs to the 1st floor. Maybe if they are delivered, the
delivery people will do that for me? It's not helpful that almost
on-line descriptions of baths give all dimensions except the overall weight.


Having just removed a steel bath (to replace with a Duravit acrylic
one - which is a *lot* more that £200), be warned that a person above
and a person below was only *just* enough to hold it going down. I
have no idea how it was originally got upstairs.

You're thinking of a cast iron bath.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Clive Page wrote:

We need to replace our old acrylic bath and taps with a new one,
preferably steel as the plastic was just too darned hard to keep clean.
I'm still not sure whether bath replacement is feasible for an only
moderately competent diyer.

There seem to be two distinct price ranges on steel baths, one around
£70-100, and another £200 upwards. The latter seem to come with much
longer guarantees, and I've also seen comments about how easy it is to
chip the enamel of baths of the cheaper sort when installing them: does
anyone have any relevant experience?

I've seen weight of baths quoted from 20kg to 65kg - if 20kg it won't be
too hard to lift, but if good quality ones with thicker steel and enamel
are really as heavy as 50 or 60kg I can't imagine how I'm going to get
it up the stairs to the 1st floor. Maybe if they are delivered, the
delivery people will do that for me? It's not helpful that almost
on-line descriptions of baths give all dimensions except the overall weight.


I've got a steel bath, ridiculously cheap at Travis Perkins Clearance
warehouse, £40. Usually around £120.
I also fitted one for a customer last year. No problems at all, really
pleased with it.
Kaldwei (sp?) do one for around £120, I fitted one of those around 3
years ago, never had to go back, so I presume it is still good.

No problem at all getting it upstairs on my own. It is cast iron that
weighs around 100kg - I can lift them up, but cannot get them downstairs
on my own.

Removing the old bath. I can reach and loosen the nuts on the nearer
tap, but the other one is too far to reach and twist (at least without a
specialist spanner).

Cut the pipe. Make sure you have 3/4" to 22mm adaptors ready,if your
pipe is more than 30 years old. Put the taps in place on the bath before
you fit it. Have an assortment of waste fittings, as it'll be unlikely
that the old bath is exactly the same as the new bath. Yes, always fit
iso valves onto the pipes.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

On 29/04/2011 16:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/04/2011 12:09, Clive Page wrote:

We need to replace our old acrylic bath and taps with a new one,
preferably steel as the plastic was just too darned hard to keep clean.
I'm still not sure whether bath replacement is feasible for an only
moderately competent diyer.

Yup, should be ok so long as the pipework is not anything odd like steel
or lead.

There seem to be two distinct price ranges on steel baths, one around
£70-100, and another £200 upwards. The latter seem to come with much
longer guarantees, and I've also seen comments about how easy it is to
chip the enamel of baths of the cheaper sort when installing them: does
anyone have any relevant experience?

You get what you pay for in general!

I've seen weight of baths quoted from 20kg to 65kg - if 20kg it won't be
too hard to lift, but if good quality ones with thicker steel and enamel
are really as heavy as 50 or 60kg I can't imagine how I'm going to get
it up the stairs to the 1st floor. Maybe if they are delivered, the
delivery people will do that for me? It's not helpful that almost
on-line descriptions of baths give all dimensions except the overall
weight.

You will want two people regardless of the weight.

Taps: the old set had a thermostatic mixer for the shower which was nice
when it worked, but I had to take it apart every year or two as it
scaled up (we are in a hard water area). I've seen advice that it's a
waste of time buying a thermostatic mixer in a hard water area as all of
them suffer the same way - is that true, or are there any brands which
have solved this problem?

I have not in general had a problem with thermostatic mixers scaling.
You might want to consider a phosphor dosing scale in inhibitor in the
hot feed to the shower. That out to reduce the scale deposition in the
shower itself (won't do anything for the scale resulting from
evaporating water splashes).

Removing the old bath. I can reach and loosen the nuts on the nearer
tap, but the other one is too far to reach and twist (at least without a
specialist spanner). It seems to me the simplest thing might be to cut
the copper pipes to both taps somewhat nearer the floor, remove the old
bath, and then install flexible pipes to the new taps. Does this seem
likely to solve the problem of removing the old bath? By the way, I've

Yup. Get it out whatever way works. Fix the new pipes to take flexi
tails, fit the taps and tails to the bath first, and then offer it into
position.

seen recommendations that isolating valves be fitted as well, and at
least one posting saying they are now required: is this so?

It makes absolutely no sense not to. For starters the isolating valve
with its top nut removed is the idea thing to screw the non tap end of
your tail too

The flexible tap connectors I use have a tap connector one end and a
compression t'other.

With nuts & olives removed from flexible & isolator you have 2 x male
threads, so you have to use a short peice of pipe to make the join.

Usually a help, but not always.

Have you found a flexible with a female both ends?








--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 29/04/2011 12:09, Clive Page wrote:
We need to replace our old acrylic bath and taps with a new one,
preferably steel as the plastic was just too darned hard to keep clean.

I'm not so sure thats a good idea.

Decent quality acrylic shouldn't be a problem to keep clean.

Don't steel baths take a lot of heat out of the water compared to acrylic?

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 29/04/2011 12:09, Clive Page wrote:
We need to replace our old acrylic bath and taps with a new one,
preferably steel as the plastic was just too darned hard to keep clean.

I'm not so sure thats a good idea.

Decent quality acrylic shouldn't be a problem to keep clean.

Don't steel baths take a lot of heat out of the water compared to acrylic?

I wouldn't have a pressed steel bath if you paid me, horrible things
compared to acrylic. Not keen on cast iron either - they probably suck
more heat out of the water than steel.


--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...

Have you found a flexible with a female both ends?

I have used some in the past like that - but have not found any like it
recently. These days I normally use a compression service valve and a pipe
stub, then a BSP to pushfit tap connector.

Something like
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plum.../sd2807/p68991

On 30/04/2011 17:57, dennis@home wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...

Have you found a flexible with a female both ends?

I have used some in the past like that - but have not found any like
it recently. These days I normally use a compression service valve and
a pipe stub, then a BSP to pushfit tap connector.

Something like
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plum.../sd2807/p68991

That has a compression each end, so removing the nuts & olives leaves
you 2 x males - and no way to connect it to a tap.

Other than that - perfect.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In message , The Medway Handyman
writes
On 29/04/2011 16:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/04/2011 12:09, Clive Page wrote:

We need to replace our old acrylic bath and taps with a new one,
preferably steel as the plastic was just too darned hard to keep clean.
I'm still not sure whether bath replacement is feasible for an only
moderately competent diyer.

Yup, should be ok so long as the pipework is not anything odd like steel
or lead.

There seem to be two distinct price ranges on steel baths, one around
£70-100, and another £200 upwards. The latter seem to come with much
longer guarantees, and I've also seen comments about how easy it is to
chip the enamel of baths of the cheaper sort when installing them: does
anyone have any relevant experience?

You get what you pay for in general!

I've seen weight of baths quoted from 20kg to 65kg - if 20kg it won't be
too hard to lift, but if good quality ones with thicker steel and enamel
are really as heavy as 50 or 60kg I can't imagine how I'm going to get
it up the stairs to the 1st floor. Maybe if they are delivered, the
delivery people will do that for me? It's not helpful that almost
on-line descriptions of baths give all dimensions except the overall
weight.

You will want two people regardless of the weight.

Taps: the old set had a thermostatic mixer for the shower which was nice
when it worked, but I had to take it apart every year or two as it
scaled up (we are in a hard water area). I've seen advice that it's a
waste of time buying a thermostatic mixer in a hard water area as all of
them suffer the same way - is that true, or are there any brands which
have solved this problem?

I have not in general had a problem with thermostatic mixers scaling.
You might want to consider a phosphor dosing scale in inhibitor in the
hot feed to the shower. That out to reduce the scale deposition in the
shower itself (won't do anything for the scale resulting from
evaporating water splashes).

Removing the old bath. I can reach and loosen the nuts on the nearer
tap, but the other one is too far to reach and twist (at least without a
specialist spanner). It seems to me the simplest thing might be to cut
the copper pipes to both taps somewhat nearer the floor, remove the old
bath, and then install flexible pipes to the new taps. Does this seem
likely to solve the problem of removing the old bath? By the way, I've

Yup. Get it out whatever way works. Fix the new pipes to take flexi
tails, fit the taps and tails to the bath first, and then offer it into
position.

seen recommendations that isolating valves be fitted as well, and at
least one posting saying they are now required: is this so?

It makes absolutely no sense not to. For starters the isolating valve
with its top nut removed is the idea thing to screw the non tap end of
your tail too

The flexible tap connectors I use have a tap connector one end and a
compression t'other.

With nuts & olives removed from flexible & isolator you have 2 x male
threads, so you have to use a short peice of pipe to make the join.

Usually a help, but not always.

Have you found a flexible with a female both ends?

You perve ...

http://www.zlata.de/


--
geoff

John Rumm wrote:

A rinse round with a hot shower before filling usually solves that. If
you are boxing it in, then you can stick some glass wool round it to lag
it a bit.

The insulation would be the winner; the faff of warming it up first
(something I will do for teapots) would put me off. Even then, not
having huge baths, you still end up with expanses of cold metal to
touch, something that detracts from a nice bath, even just the rim as
you get in.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On Apr 29, 3:54*pm, harry wrote:
On Apr 29, 12:09*pm, Clive Page wrote:



We need to replace our old acrylic bath and taps with a new one,
preferably steel as the plastic was just too darned hard to keep clean.
* I'm still not sure whether bath replacement is feasible for an only
moderately competent diyer.

There seem to be two distinct price ranges on steel baths, one around
£70-100, and another £200 upwards. *The latter seem to come with much
longer guarantees, and I've also seen comments about how easy it is to
chip the enamel of baths of the cheaper sort when installing them: does
anyone have any relevant experience?

I've seen weight of baths quoted from 20kg to 65kg - if 20kg it won't be
too hard to lift, but if good quality ones with thicker steel and enamel
are really as heavy as 50 or 60kg I can't imagine how I'm going to get
it up the stairs to the 1st floor. *Maybe if they are delivered, the
delivery people will do that for me? *It's not helpful that almost
on-line descriptions of baths give all dimensions except the overall weight.

Taps: the old set had a thermostatic mixer for the shower which was nice
when it worked, but I had to take it apart every year or two as it
scaled up (we are in a hard water area). *I've seen advice that it's a
waste of time buying a thermostatic mixer in a hard water area as all of
them suffer the same way - is that true, or are there any brands which
have solved this problem?

Removing the old bath. *I can reach and loosen the nuts on the nearer
tap, but the other one is too far to reach and twist (at least without a
specialist spanner). *It seems to me the simplest thing might be to cut
the copper pipes to both taps somewhat nearer the floor, remove the old
bath, and then install flexible pipes to the new taps. *Does this seem
likely to solve the problem of removing the old bath? *By the way, I've
seen recommendations that isolating valves be fitted as well, and at
least one posting saying they are now required: is this so?

--
Clive Page

To get a bath upstairs tkes two people.

Come back after a nice little break and Harry is still spouting utter
cock.

MBQ

On Apr 30, 9:01*am, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
On 29/04/2011 12:09, Clive Page wrote:

We need to replace our old acrylic bath and taps with a new one,
preferably steel as the plastic was just too darned hard to keep clean.

I'm not so sure thats a good idea.

Decent quality acrylic shouldn't be a problem to keep clean.

Especially if it's new and you use the correct cleaning products in
the first place.

Don't steel baths take a lot of heat out of the water compared to acrylic?

I notice that. Anyone tried squirty foam as insulation?

MBQ

On Tue, 3 May 2011 04:16:54 -0700 (PDT) Man at B&Q wrote :
I notice that. Anyone tried squirty foam as insulation?

The ordinary stuff out of an aerosol just rolled off when I tried it.
ISTR that the foam used on cylinders is a two part foam.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.eurobeam.co.uk www.greentram.com

On Apr 29, 10:38*pm, (A.Lee) wrote:
Martin Bonner wrote:
On 29 Apr, 12:09, Clive Page wrote:

I've seen weight of baths quoted from 20kg to 65kg - if 20kg it won't be
too hard to lift, but if good quality ones with thicker steel and enamel
are really as heavy as 50 or 60kg I can't imagine how I'm going to get
it up the stairs to the 1st floor. *Maybe if they are delivered, the
delivery people will do that for me? *It's not helpful that almost
on-line descriptions of baths give all dimensions except the overall weight.

Having just removed a steel bath (to replace with a Duravit acrylic
one - which is a *lot* more that £200), be warned that a person above
and a person below was only *just* enough to hold it going down. *I
have no idea how it was originally got upstairs.

You're thinking of a cast iron bath.

It was supposed to "look" cast iron, but I don't think it actually was
cast in a mold from molten iron.