Looking into resin fixings for awnings, given the wide use of bricks
with 3 holes in instead of a frog.

First confusion, there are a few types of resin; Polyester, Styrene free
Polyester and Vinylester.

Why would I need styrene free polyester?

The vinylester seems to be a fast curing type. I don't know how fast
these things set?

Is it 'go for a cup of tea' or 'go for lunch' or 'come back in the
morning' before you can apply a load?

It also seems that the 175ml will fit a standard sealant gun, but the
380ml won't?

Next, it seems that with hollow bricks I need the sleeves - is that right?

Further, the studs seem to have a hexagon drive. Whats that for?

Any info appreciated.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Apr 15, 7:48*pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
Looking into resin fixings for awnings, given the wide use of bricks
with 3 holes in instead of a frog.

First confusion, there are a few types of resin; Polyester, Styrene free
Polyester and Vinylester.

and epoxy


Why would I need styrene free polyester?

you don't. IIRC its a toxic fume issue, bgut my memory's not 100% on
that


The vinylester seems to be a fast curing type. *I don't know how fast
these things set?

Is it 'go for a cup of tea' or 'go for lunch' or 'come back in the
morning' before you can apply a load?

I generally stick with epoxy. Its solid in an hour, safe to load fully
in 24. Polyester car filler is way faster. That's resin plus filler
(ie powder)


It also seems that the 175ml will fit a standard sealant gun, but the
380ml won't?

Just get the gun that fits the tubes. Epoxy uses a double barrel gun.
Cox ones are very nice.


Next, it seems that with hollow bricks I need the sleeves - is that right?

Injecting resin into a hollow brick means it falls out.


Further, the studs seem to have a hexagon drive. *Whats that for?


Any info appreciated.

there's quite a lot to read on the subject. Check out the West System
epoxy manual. Or you could just get one of each and try them.


NT

On Apr 15, 7:48*pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:

Why would I need styrene free polyester?

It's a cancer risk thing, I think.

The vinylester seems to be a fast curing type. *I don't know how fast
these things set?

Is it 'go for a cup of tea' or 'go for lunch' or 'come back in the
morning' before you can apply a load?

Go for lunch, I'd say. The ones I've used have been immovably set
within 10 or 15 mins. But it would be dependent on how much you are
going to stress it, as no doubt there is a curve. I imagine most
things are not at their ultimate full strength for lots of hours, but
are very strong much sooner. You'd need to look at the spec sheet.

It also seems that the 175ml will fit a standard sealant gun, but the
380ml won't?

Big fat gun for the 380ml type. But worth it if you are going to do a
few.

Next, it seems that with hollow bricks I need the sleeves - is that right?

The usual aim with that sort of thing is to build up a bigger plug
behind the drill hole (which can't be pulled back through once it has
set), rather than filling the entire hollow chamber in the brick with
expensive glorp (which would be hard to acheive reliably anyway).

Further, the studs seem to have a hexagon drive. *Whats that for?

It helps to screw the fixing in to the wet gloop to get the most
intimate contact - otherwise you have to bash them in (assuming a hole
into solid material) towards the end to displace the glorp which has
been plunged down to the end of the hole as the fixing is inserted.

Cleanliness is paramount with these things by the way. If you have a
compressor, a good few blasts with a airline gun with a long nozzle
works well, otherwise they sell manual blow things and brushes and
such. Although in your case actually that's probably less critical as
the plug effect isn't so reliant on the bond with the drill-hole
itself.

Bolted wrote:

On Apr 15, 7:48 pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:

The vinylester seems to be a fast curing type. I don't know how fast
these things set?

Is it 'go for a cup of tea' or 'go for lunch' or 'come back in the
morning' before you can apply a load?

Go for lunch, I'd say. The ones I've used have been immovably set
within 10 or 15 mins. But it would be dependent on how much you are
going to stress it, as no doubt there is a curve. I imagine most
things are not at their ultimate full strength for lots of hours, but
are very strong much sooner. You'd need to look at the spec sheet.

I'd agree. The initial set is in about 10-15 mins (Fischer, forget which
subtype, but it was a vinylester). This is a good time to trim anything off
with a sharp knife as it is rubbery.

I'd personally give it an hour after which you would be safe for a test fit,
minimum load. Leave for a few hours to be safe before applying full load or
tightening the bolts up hard.

It also seems that the 175ml will fit a standard sealant gun, but the
380ml won't?

Big fat gun for the 380ml type. But worth it if you are going to do a
few.

Next, it seems that with hollow bricks I need the sleeves - is that
right?

The usual aim with that sort of thing is to build up a bigger plug
behind the drill hole (which can't be pulled back through once it has
set), rather than filling the entire hollow chamber in the brick with
expensive glorp (which would be hard to acheive reliably anyway).

Further, the studs seem to have a hexagon drive. Whats that for?

It helps to screw the fixing in to the wet gloop to get the most
intimate contact - otherwise you have to bash them in (assuming a hole
into solid material) towards the end to displace the glorp which has
been plunged down to the end of the hole as the fixing is inserted.

Cleanliness is paramount with these things by the way. If you have a
compressor, a good few blasts with a airline gun with a long nozzle
works well, otherwise they sell manual blow things and brushes and
such. Although in your case actually that's probably less critical as
the plug effect isn't so reliant on the bond with the drill-hole
itself.

I did get the little blower pump, but a can of computer type air-in-a-can
duster spray would probably be very effective.

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

In article , Tim Watts
writes
Bolted wrote:

On Apr 15, 7:48 pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:

I'd agree. The initial set is in about 10-15 mins (Fischer, forget which
subtype, but it was a vinylester). This is a good time to trim anything off
with a sharp knife as it is rubbery.

An old tip when fixing something with a light frame before the full load
goes on (say a wallplate) is to let it go off partially, then fit the
frame with nuts just spun on but untightened, this means that any slight
hole alignment issues can be sorted before the stuff sets rock hard. I
don't know if Dave's awnings (I see a brand name ;-) have subframes or
not that could take advantage of this.

I'd personally give it an hour after which you would be safe for a test fit,
minimum load. Leave for a few hours to be safe before applying full load or
tightening the bolts up hard.


Further, the studs seem to have a hexagon drive. Whats that for?

It helps to screw the fixing in to the wet gloop to get the most
intimate contact - otherwise you have to bash them in (assuming a hole
into solid material) towards the end to displace the glorp which has
been plunged down to the end of the hole as the fixing is inserted.

Slowly turning the stud as it goes in (as if screwing it into the wall)
will ensure that the threads are fully coated to the root in resin
without voids.

When using glass capsule resin inserts (don't ever use these), you spin
the stud to mix the resin, not too little (as it will be a weak joint
through incomplete mixing) and not too much (as the mix can go off
prematurely through heat and the torque can destroy the bond).

Cleanliness is paramount with these things by the way. If you have a
compressor, a good few blasts with a airline gun with a long nozzle
works well, otherwise they sell manual blow things and brushes and
such. Although in your case actually that's probably less critical as
the plug effect isn't so reliant on the bond with the drill-hole
itself.

I did get the little blower pump, but a can of computer type air-in-a-can
duster spray would probably be very effective.

I'd recommend brush and air (bottled air is much better than a bent
straw btw) as some kinds of stone/brick dust will bind together and not
be blown out by the air but can weaken the resin if disturbed when
spinning in the stud.

It's not a bottle brush for this btw, it's a teapot brush, just the
right size. The cheap plastic handle will break off after 2 holes, then
put a right angle bend at the end as a good torquey handle.

One set of purpose made studs I have put in looked as if they had
residual oil on them so I've solvent cleaned any that I have put in
since.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

On Apr 18, 6:07*pm, fred wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
writesBolted wrote:
On Apr 15, 7:48 pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:

Slowly turning the stud as it goes in (as if screwing it into the wall)
will ensure that the threads are fully coated to the root in resin
without voids.

When using glass capsule resin inserts (don't ever use these), you spin
the stud to mix the resin, not too little (as it will be a weak joint
through incomplete mixing) and not too much (as the mix can go off
prematurely through heat and the torque can destroy the bond).

Why don't use them?


NT

On 18/04/2011 18:32, Tabby wrote:
On Apr 18, 6:07 pm, wrote:
In , Tim Watts
writesBolted wrote:
On Apr 15, 7:48 pm, The Medway
wrote:

Slowly turning the stud as it goes in (as if screwing it into the wall)
will ensure that the threads are fully coated to the root in resin
without voids.

When using glass capsule resin inserts (don't ever use these), you spin
the stud to mix the resin, not too little (as it will be a weak joint
through incomplete mixing) and not too much (as the mix can go off
prematurely through heat and the torque can destroy the bond).

Why don't use them?

I'd like to know as well. They seem the best way from what I've looked
at. What are the problems?

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 19/04/2011 00:08, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 18/04/2011 18:32, Tabby wrote:
On Apr 18, 6:07 pm, wrote:

When using glass capsule resin inserts (don't ever use these),

Why don't use them?

I'd like to know as well. They seem the best way from what I've looked
at. What are the problems?

Me too. I've used them with great success.

--
Andy

When using glass capsule resin inserts (don't ever use these), you spin
the stud to mix the resin, not too little (as it will be a weak joint
through incomplete mixing) and not too much (as the mix can go off
prematurely through heat and the torque can destroy the bond).

Don't get the problem with "too much" spinning. The mix cures by heat
generated from the chemical reaction. Hot weather may make it set
prematurely, but not much else.

I'd recommend brush and air (bottled air is much better than a bent
straw btw) as some kinds of stone/brick dust will bind together and not
be blown out by the air but can weaken the resin if disturbed when
spinning in the stud.

It's not a bottle brush for this btw, it's a teapot brush, just the
right size. The cheap plastic handle will break off after 2 holes, then
put a right angle bend at the end as a good torquey handle.

That is good advice.

In article
,
Tabby writes
On Apr 18, 6:07*pm, fred wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
writesBolted wrote:
On Apr 15, 7:48 pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:

Slowly turning the stud as it goes in (as if screwing it into the wall)
will ensure that the threads are fully coated to the root in resin
without voids.

When using glass capsule resin inserts (don't ever use these), you spin
the stud to mix the resin, not too little (as it will be a weak joint
through incomplete mixing) and not too much (as the mix can go off
prematurely through heat and the torque can destroy the bond).

Why don't use them?

Their strength is their long shelf life and precise metering but their
weakness is also their precise metering. If anything contrives to give
you a slightly oversize or overlength hole then it will be underfilled
resulting n a weaker joint and leaving a gap for potential moisture
ingress promoting damp penetration and corrosion of stud if not
stainless.

With gunned resin you can compensate for fluctuations in hole size by
adding more or less goop. If you don't have to have precise holes then
you can get a job done lot quicker.

I've also had the back surface of a single brick spall off leaving me a
backless hole. I couldn't have used a capsule there but I could use the
gun.

For the inexperienced, there's also the, have I spun the stud enough to
mix it but not overmixed it factor, not always easy to judge.

I wouldn't use them again.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

On Apr 19, 9:46*am, fred wrote:
In article
,
Tabby writes

On Apr 18, 6:07 pm, fred wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
writesBolted wrote:
On Apr 15, 7:48 pm, The Medway Handyman
wrote:

Slowly turning the stud as it goes in (as if screwing it into the wall)
will ensure that the threads are fully coated to the root in resin
without voids.

When using glass capsule resin inserts (don't ever use these), you spin
the stud to mix the resin, not too little (as it will be a weak joint
through incomplete mixing) and not too much (as the mix can go off
prematurely through heat and the torque can destroy the bond).

Why don't use them?

Their strength is their long shelf life and precise metering but their
weakness is also their precise metering. If anything contrives to give
you a slightly oversize or overlength hole then it will be underfilled
resulting n a weaker joint and leaving a gap for potential moisture
ingress promoting damp penetration and corrosion of stud if not
stainless.

With gunned resin you can compensate for fluctuations in hole size by
adding more or less goop. If you don't have to have precise holes then
you can get a job done lot quicker.

I've also had the back surface of a single brick spall off leaving me a
backless hole. I couldn't have used a capsule there but I could use the
gun.

For the inexperienced, there's also the, have I spun the stud enough to
mix it but not overmixed it factor, not always easy to judge.

I wouldn't use them again.

I wouldnt use them either, because of the price. Epoxy by the cart is
far cheaper, and the other resins cheaper still.

In case anyone's trying resin for the first time, if a hole lacks
enough resin, it can be solved by just sticking something in it, like
a small brass screw or part of a plastic wallplug. This can reduce the
high strength of the bond a little, but its not normally an issue.


NT